#200: Plantiful Kiki - Lean Into Loving Yourself
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My guest today is Kiki Nelson, but you may know her best as Plantiful Kiki. Her book, Plantifully Lean is turning heads, but what turned my attention to Kiki was her transparent health and weight loss journey.
As a young adult, Kiki struggled with her weight and suffered all of the ill consequences as a result - high blood pressure, pre-diabetes, hormonal imbalances, lack of energy - and none of this was optimal for a young Mom of two active children.
Fortunately, she found simple whole food, plant-based nutrition and did (and still does) a lot of work around self-compassion, forgiveness, and self-love.
The results? In a little over a year, she lost 70 pounds and reversed those lifestyle diseases.
Rip and Kiki discuss:
The ups and downs of yo-yo dieting
What turned Kiki onto plant-based nutrition
The lecture from Jeff Novick that changed everything for her
Why she loves carbs and doesn’t avoid them
How she divides her plate for optimum nutrition and satiety
The way she cooks as a Mom of two
How she leaned into self-love and compassion in her journey
Why she wrote Plantifiully Lean and is so transparent on social media about her weight loss journey
A few of the “Firefighter-approved” recipes she created from her book.
Today, you can find her on her social media channels dishing up plenty of recipes and inspiration, and you can find her book Plantifully Lean on bookshelves now.
Order Plantifully Lean
Episode Resources
Watch the Full Episode on YouTube
Order Plantifully Lean
Plantiful Kiki’s website - https://plantifulkiki.com/
Follow Kiki on Instagram - @plantifulkiki
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Full YouTube Transcript
Rip Esselstyn:
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I'm Rip Esselstyn and welcome to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. The mission at PLANTSTRONG is to further the advancement of all things within the plant-based movement. We advocate for the scientifically proven benefits of plant-based living and envision a world that universally understands, promotes and prescribes plants as a solution to empowering your health, enhancing your performance, restoring the environment, and becoming better guardians to the animals we share this planet with. We welcome you wherever you are on your PLANTSTRONG journey and I hope that you enjoy this show.
My guest today is Kiki Nelson, but you may know her best as Plantiful Kiki. Her book, Plantifully Lean was released a few weeks ago and it is turning heads. But what turned my attention to Kiki was her transparent health and weight loss journey because it's similar to so many of the people that I meet at our retreats and through my speaking tours. Kiki struggled with her weight for many years and suffered all of the ill consequences as a result: High blood pressure, pre-diabetes, hormonal imbalances, lack of energy, and none of this was optimal for a young mom of two active children.
And like many of us, she tried all the other diets, those high fat, low carb diets, and not surprisingly found that they weren't sustainable and made her overall health worse. Now, two things really move the needle for Kiki, and they are the cornerstone of the work that she does today. Number one, she found simple whole food, plant-based nutrition, and two, she did and still does a lot of work around self-compassion, forgiveness, and self-love.
The results? In a little over a year, she lost 70 pounds, her husband lost 50 pounds, and most importantly, she reversed so many of the lifestyle diseases that were only going to progress. It's a remarkable story of someone willing to believe that they are worth the work, and she shares that work with all of us today. You can find her on her social media channels, dishing up plenty of recipes and inspiration, and you can find her book Plantifully Lean on bookshelves everywhere. Let's say hello to Kiki Nelson or Plantiful Kiki. Kiki Nelson, it's great to meet you. It's great to have you on the PLANTSTRONG podcast.
Plantiful Kiki:
Thank you. It's so nice to meet you.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, it's a real pleasure to meet you as well. Our paths have never crossed before. This is my first time actually speaking with you.
Plantiful Kiki:
Actually, I met you about five years ago and I should probably send you the picture. You came to a local Whole Foods to give a chat. I met you real quick, but obviously no reason to remember.
Rip Esselstyn:
Do you remember which Whole Foods it was?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah, it was the Whole Foods in Fort Collins, Colorado.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh yes, yes. Adorable town there.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah, I love it there.
Rip Esselstyn:
Are you actually in Fort Collins?
Plantiful Kiki:
No. We live in the mountains and Fort Collins is down in the foothills, but I went to school in Fort Collins and have spent a lot of my life there, so I love Fort Collins.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right. So you love the mountains. You and your family?
Plantiful Kiki:
Oh, yeah. We are mountain people through and through.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. What is it about the mountains that draws you to them?
Plantiful Kiki:
I always say the mountain chooses you. You don't choose the mountain, and I don't know if it's just more electrical. I don't know. We just love the high mountains. We love the pine trees. The peaks. There's just nothing like hiking and summiting that mountain and seeing the views, the waterfalls, just the amount in nature that's available to you, and it's less populated just by the nature of the landscape. So there's just a lot of nature.
Rip Esselstyn:
Did you grow up in Colorado?
Plantiful Kiki:
I did, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. And is your family still there?
Plantiful Kiki:
No. Actually, my dad retired to Mexico and my mom retired to Florida. So very, very different.
Rip Esselstyn:
Gotcha. Where did you get your name, Kiki?
Plantiful Kiki:
So Kiki is actually my nickname. I don't like to share my full name. We like to maintain as much anonymity as reasonably possible, but it's my nickname that I have been called since I was a baby, and I actually don't really even identify with my given name because everybody has called me Kiki since birth.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, nice. And I can relate as well, very much so there. I really want to unpack and dive in with you, your weight loss journey and what you've done with that. You came out with an expanded edition of your Plantifully. Is that how you pronounce it?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah, Plantifully.
Rip Esselstyn:
Plantifully Lean cookbook in April. And you have done incredibly well. It's really resonating with people, your story, your weight loss. Obviously, I went through every recipe in your book, and they're just incredibly delicious looking, simple. I had a saying, they're like firefighter friendly. So I had somebody say, "Rip, all your recipes are fantastic." And in looking through these, I would say very much the same thing for almost all of these.
So you say that you have tried just about every diet and you've had lots of failed attempts on your weight loss journey. Can you talk to me about some of those and how long you've been trying to lose weight for?
Plantiful Kiki:
And this is really sad to say, but I started dieting when I was 12 or 13 because that's when I noticed I was a little bit thicker than most of the other kids. Not enough to bother me, but I was definitely conscious of that. As I got older, probably around 15, I think I put on 20 or 30 pounds that year, and it was just really difficult. So I've been dieting for a long time. I think most of the dieting I did was low carb, high protein, which is inevitably high fat and not great for you for so many reasons. That, and counting calories.
So I feel like for me, the reason dieting never stuck or worked was because the small portions you're eating are not realistic. At least not for me. I have a big appetite and not eating carbs. That never goes, well. I could do low carb Monday through Thursday, but come Friday I was like, "It's the weekend." And then you just undo any calorie deficit you created on the weekend, and then that's the cycle.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, what are some of the different diets that you tried?
Plantiful Kiki:
So I did keto. I Did Atkins back, just the pre-versions to keto. I did that with my mom and my brother in the late '90s. We did that a lot. I even did SlimFast. Do you remember SlimFast?
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh yeah. Is SlimFast just drinking?
Plantiful Kiki:
It is. It's just these horrible little shakes that are this big and that's supposed to get you through the day. You get one for breakfast, one for lunch, and then you're supposed to have a sensible dinner, whatever that meant. So that was awful. I did that a lot in my teens as well.
Rip Esselstyn:
Did you ever do... What's the one? South Beach?
Plantiful Kiki:
No, I didn't do that one. But that's the same though, isn't it? That's just low-
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. They're all different versions of, I think the original Atkins in some way, shape or form, for the most part. So what was it that all of a sudden turned you on to Plantifully Lean and whole food plant-based?
Plantiful Kiki:
It's really funny. So I had gone to a normal checkup with my doctor. I love telling this story because people just really can't believe it until you show them the pictures. But my weight was between 189 and 194 pounds. I had high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high triglycerides. I had been pre-diabetic for about 10 years, and my doctor was like, "You need to lose at least 40 pounds and you need to do it yesterday," which was super frustrating because I've been trying to lose some weight since I was 13 and had never been able to do it successfully.
So I felt completely lost and defeated because I literally did not know what to do. I was complaining to a friend and she told me about Dr. John McDougall, and she was like, "He helps people heal and lose weight-eating potatoes." And my first thought was like, "I am pre-diabetic. I am a very petite Latina. I cannot be eating potatoes willfully. Did I eat potatoes? Yeah, all the time in secret." But I couldn't just go out there and eat potatoes. So she said to watch Forks Over Knives on Netflix and What the Health, and just check it out.
She had lost 40 pounds, but she had mentioned it was vegan or something, but I was not interested at all. So long story short, I went and picked up a copy of Dr. McDougall's book, the Starch Solution. I read it in a day. That night we watched Forks Over Knives and the rest is history. I told my husband, I was like, "That's it. We have to do this. We have to try this."
Rip Esselstyn:
That's awesome. And in reading your book, I'm like, "Wow, she is so mission aligned with everything that I basically preach to people." And I'm like, "I'm wondering if it was the China study. Was it McDougall? Who was it?" So very interesting to know who was John McDougall, who is one of my heroes and has absolutely been a guiding light for me on my journey, obviously, along with my father. I've had John on the podcast several times, and he is absolutely one of the godfathers of the whole food plant-based movement.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Way to go. So what I'd love to do, Kiki, is just because to me it's such a great reminder for people of the mechanics of weight loss. I think you've done a really wonderful job in your opening chapters of outlining for people-
Plantiful Kiki:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
... the mechanics of weight loss. So what I'd love to do is throw out a topic and then just have you riff on it for a little bit. So let's start with, and you touched upon it, but I want to go into it a little bit deeper, avoiding carbohydrates. Most people, they're afraid of carbohydrates like the plague. So my question to you is, you're not a fan of avoiding carbohydrates, right?
Plantiful Kiki:
Nope. Where do you get your energy?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So what carbohydrates do you recommend?
Plantiful Kiki:
I love any carbohydrate the way it's found in nature the most. So I love white potatoes. I love sweet potatoes. I love whole grain bread. I love rice. I do love white rice. I want to love brown rice, but I just don't adult on that level yet. But I love rice, oatmeal. Any other whole grain you can think of.
Rip Esselstyn:
Love.
Plantiful Kiki:
You love it, eat it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. And I think that the reason why, one of the main reasons carbohydrates have gotten such a bad rep is because the vast majority of America's carbohydrates are not the items that you just rip on. Right?
Plantiful Kiki:
Right.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's the fried chips. It's the soda pop. It's the donuts, the ding-dongs. It's the white rice, it's the white pasta, it's the white sugar. So could not agree with you more about embracing the right kind of carbohydrates.
Plantiful Kiki:
Every bite counts. You need nutrition.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. You have a pretty powerful little section on calorie density.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
So I've talked about calorie density before on the podcast, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on calorie density and how that was a game changer for you.
Plantiful Kiki:
So I, like most people on their weight loss journeys, especially if you have a significant amount of weight like I did, I ran into plateaus. So when I started my journey, I wasn't eating whole grain bread. I wasn't eating the best form of carbohydrates. I was just trying to get us off of Taco Bell. So we were eating cereal, but I was watching the fat content and all of these things.
So once I would hit a plateau, I'd have to adjust, "Okay. Now it's time to introduce more fruits and vegetables." But I hit this really tough plateau. I was only about 10 pounds, 10, 15 pounds from where I am today, and I couldn't move past it. So I really started rereading things, re-watching lectures, TED Talks on YouTube, and I watched the calorie density video by Jeff Novick.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, yeah. Brilliant,
Plantiful Kiki:
Brilliant. I mean, all the light bulbs went on. So when I understood if I stick to these foods from this line down all naturally be at a healthy weight. And you can manipulate that further with the plate building like he showed in his video. So I just love the pasta example where you have a full plate of pasta, but you remove half of it and you replace it with vegetables, which are almost free calories. You'd probably take more calories to digest them than consume them.
You still get to eat the same volume of food for less calories. And that is so powerful for people once they realize, "Oh my gosh, if I just fill my plate with lots of these fruits and vegetables and still eat my carbohydrates, I can eat enormous amounts of food, not count calories and lose weight."
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, exactly. You mentioned in your book how the magic number we're looking for is right around 600 calories per pound. Right?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
And then when you're eating fruits and vegetables and whole grains and beans, it's important to point out that the whole grains are, these are cooked whole grains, right?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's not necessarily the breads. But even pasta, even pasta, because it's cooked in water, has a calorie density about 550 calories per pound. So if you're under 600, you can almost, almost eat. And just until you're completely content and satisfied and satiated for breakfast, lunch and dinner, it's a beautiful thing.
Plantiful Kiki:
Totally. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
And you mentioned earlier how you've got a substantial palette, right?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yes..
Rip Esselstyn:
You like to eat.
Plantiful Kiki:
I do.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
You like to eat. And so if you like to eat, this is for you. And if you want to find your ideal weight, how much... So you mentioned that you... You were within 10 to 15 pounds of your target weight. You went back. You reeducated yourself on calorie density. Where did you start on your weight loss journey, and then where did you end up where you are today?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. So I was about 190 pounds when I started, which is just crazy to think about. My weight sits around 120 pounds, give or take. Well, I'll never take, give five pounds or not. Ask me in December, and I'm more like 125.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, that's probably because you've had maybe eaten one too many desserts. I don't know.
Plantiful Kiki:
It's the holidays.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, your desserts look incredible, and we're going to talk-
Plantiful Kiki:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
... about those in just a second. Let's talk about satiation. When you first started doing this, did you feel satiated? And you also talk about this, that sometimes it's this weird... We're so used to this bowling ball in our stomach.
Plantiful Kiki:
Right, heavy.
Rip Esselstyn:
When we eat the standard American diet, these foods are much lighter. You say it's this weird dichotomy of you feel full, but yet you're also hungry. So did you find this is something that went away, or did you have to understand it?
Plantiful Kiki:
Oh yeah. I found that it went away, and I actually didn't experience that until I started the plate building method, when I started adding more non-starchy vegetables. So the first month of moving through that last plateau, and I was doing the 50-50 plate and eating more non-starchy vegetables, that's where I would feel so full, but still be hungry. So I just listened to that. So I would just get another plate, start with my non-starchy veggies and just keep going.
I found after about two weeks, it really worked itself out. You just get used to it. And that's what I have found with people is if they just keep going, listen to their bodies. They never want anybody to feel like they're starving. You shouldn't feel like you're starving. Grab another plate of food, serve yourself the same way. Start with your non-starchy veggies first and eat until you feel satisfied. And it does, your body gets used to it.
Rip Esselstyn:
You've mentioned a couple times your non-starchy vegetables. What do you mean by that?
Plantiful Kiki:
So your vegetables like zucchini, mushrooms, onions, broccoli, your non-carby vegetables.
Rip Esselstyn:
And are those typically more calorie dilute or light than your starchy vegetables?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yep. They are going to be one to 200 calories per pound versus the four to 600 calories per pound that you're eating.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right. Before you found the holy grail. In your past dieting life, were you counting calories? Is that something that you did kind of religiously?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. I had a good stint after I had my first son where I've always been interested in nutrition, so I was like, "Okay, I'm going to get in shape finally." And I did. I got in shape. I got down to about 150 pounds counting calories. It was very, very painful. I did not enjoy it, and I couldn't stick with it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. And then what is your philosophy now? Do you track calories or do you recommend people track calories or do you recommend let's try and do away with that?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. So I always tell people to do what works best for them because I find that some people tell people it's stupid to count calories, but some people really find comfort in being able to see that. I never want to alienate anybody just because something didn't work for me. So what I tell my calorie counters or people that are really trying to do their best, but still not losing any weight, I tell them to, "Okay, just track your calories, see where you're at, so you can actually see how much you are consuming in those little handfuls of crackers."
And to help my frustrated people that aren't losing, it's not working. No, it does work. Let's just look at it a little bit closer. And then I tell my consistent calorie counters that you can still apply the principles of calorie density and it will change your calorie counting game because now you'll get to see how much food you get to eat for the calories. And it goes from using counting calories as a form of restriction as merely a way of collecting data.
That's what I want to help people move to is if you're going to count calories, look at it as data. Not as restriction, because understanding the principles of calorie density helps you break free of that, if that makes sense.
Rip Esselstyn:
Absolutely. I find that when you're able to embrace the whole kind of calorie density philosophy, it is the most... All of a sudden you are liberated from eating a scientific experiment, and you're pulling out the calculator and doing all the plugins and all that stuff. It is great. So a couple times, Kiki, you've mentioned building your plate. Is it a 50/50 combo? Is it a 30/70? Is it a 70/30? Just for people that want to understand this at a deeper level, what do you recommend to who 30/70, 50/50, 70/30? And explain again what exactly that is that we're referring to.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yes. Okay. So when I talk about building your plate, I'm talking about simply how you arrange the food on your plate. And it's just a tricky way of getting to eat a bunch of food for less calories. So the most popular plate I recommend is the 50/50 plate, and I only recommend this to people that are at a max 20 pounds from where they want to be. And this is where you fill half your plate full of non-starchy vegetables and the other half full of your starch of choice.
You always start with your non-starchy vegetables first, so you fill up on the lowest calorie dense foods first that are the highest in nutrition, both fiber, water, and then move to the more calorie dense side of your plate. By doing this, you're getting to consume a large volume of food, feel full and satiated for less calories. And every time you want to eat, you just serve yourself the same way.
Now, if you have more than 20 pounds to lose, what I have found personally for people is that you don't want to go to the 50/50 plate. You will be starving and so, so full like it's not a good idea because it cuts the calories so much and you're full. So if you have more than 20 pounds to lose, I do recommend doing less of a vegetable serving and doing one third non-starchy vegetables and two thirds starch, and then do that consistently and you will lose weight. And then once you hit a plateau, then that means that you're ready to move down to the 50/50 plate.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you recommend for people that have more weight to lose to actually have a more calorie dense plate?
Plantiful Kiki:
Absolutely. Because these foods are still so low in calories. I mean, I didn't do any plate building for the first 35, 40 pounds that I lost.
Rip Esselstyn:
How long did it take you to lose these 70 pounds?
Plantiful Kiki:
It took me about 14 months, but there's a lot of learning curve in there. About 14 months before I was weight stable and not interested in losing any more.
Rip Esselstyn:
And you did this with your husband, right?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yes, I did.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's great. Did he have some weight to lose as well?
Plantiful Kiki:
I mean, I never looked at him and thought like that he did, but he ended up losing 55 pounds, and he didn't do this to lose weight. I mean, he thought he was just perfection of a man. So he was just, "Look, I'll support you because you've been trying for years to get your health under control." He's like, "But I really think I can only do this for four months." So I was like, "I'll take it. Let's do four months, which means I've got him, I've got the kids. Let's see how far we go."
And at the end of four months, he had lost 30 or 25. I can't remember anymore. It's like 20 to 30 pounds. His aches and pains were disappearing and he was not interested in going back, so we've just never looked back.
Rip Esselstyn:
So was that a hard sell to get him on board or not?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yes and no. It's a hard sell from, "What do you mean? We're not going to have bacon on Saturdays?" I mean, nobody wants to give up their bacon on Saturdays. So that part was... And I brought us through so many diets. He was just like, "Not another diet." But on the other hand, he really wanted to support me, and he'd seen how much I had struggled over the years.
Rip Esselstyn:
Where did you guys meet?
Plantiful Kiki:
We actually met on a humanitarian trip in Mexico.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Plantiful Kiki:
21 years ago.
Rip Esselstyn:
Fantastic. You got to see the beautiful person that was inside each of you. Here's a before and after photo for people of you. That's great. I know I've seen of your husband as well, but I'm not sure where it is right this second. Now, what about your kids? Are your kids on board?
Plantiful Kiki:
Oh, yeah. They were five and 10 when we started this. So of course there was threatened mutiny on the ship, but I run a tight ship and I'm the one in charge. So it is up to me to make sure that I at least give them healthy habits. And that's just how I approached it. I knew that there was going to be whining. It was going to be emotionally hard for them just like it is for an adult. I think in some ways it's harder because they don't have the maturity to really see that this is a long game and all the benefits. So I just empathized with them as much as possible, but I held the line of this is what it is.
Rip Esselstyn:
And so it's been several years now. Are they proud to be Plantifully Lean?
Plantiful Kiki:
Oh, yeah. They're so healthy. They never get sick. They are super athletic. And they just can't even imagine putting... My son will come home from high school and he'll be like, "Oh, you should see what these kids eat." I'm like, "I don't want to know."
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, it's not pretty.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
What's interesting on the front of your book, you have this little kind of violator logo here, eat more, weigh less, which is great. It took me back to mine from this where I said, eat more, lose more.
Plantiful Kiki:
Oh, yeah. That's awesome. I have that book too. I have all your books. I buy the PLANTSTRONG Chili.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's great. I'll send you a little care package.
Plantiful Kiki:
That would be awesome.
Rip Esselstyn:
Because we just launched six new ones.
Plantiful Kiki:
Ooh, yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
We've got 10 now. And they're all, I think, Plantifully Lean approved.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah, I'm sure they would be.
Rip Esselstyn:
What are your thoughts Kiki on avocados and nuts?
Plantiful Kiki:
Well, I love avocados and I love nuts. And so I tell people that you have to be moderate with them. Some have to be more moderate than others. People always want me to give them a hard line of, "How many fat grams per day?" And I'm like, "I really can't say that. I can only regurgitate what other doctors have said." But I say, "If you're going to have something, avocados have a lot less calories. They're delicious and creamy. So you can have more of those than you could nuts or seeds. But putting a little bit of cashews in your ranch or your cheese sauce, that's going to make it really enjoyable and it's in such diluted amounts, I think it's a win." No nut butters.
Rip Esselstyn:
I've noticed in going through these recipes, and we're going to talk about several of them, that you have a cheese sauce that you put over just about-
Plantiful Kiki:
Everything.
Rip Esselstyn:
... 75% of the recipes. I'm exaggerating, obviously. But when you dilute those cashews or some nuts with the potatoes and the carrots, it keeps the fat content down and the calorie density. And just so people know here, because I'm going to throw out a number like nuts and seeds and nut butters are about 2,800 calories per pound? Avocados are right around 750, 800. So you're talking almost a... Not quite, but almost a three and a half fold difference between-
Plantiful Kiki:
It's a lot.
Rip Esselstyn:
... avocados and nuts, right?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
The same weight of each. So it's a lot. It's substantial. What are your thoughts on oils? Are you in the PLANTSTRONG camp when it comes to oils?
Plantiful Kiki:
Listen, in my own life, we don't cook with oil. I do use the light spray of oil in my waffle iron, but that sort of thing. But I definitely don't cook in oil. Just don't do it. That's free calories. It's doing nothing for satiation, adding inflammation. Just don't do it. But I'm not opposed to the light spray here and there.
Rip Esselstyn:
Do you have a favorite way of cooking without oil when it comes to, let's say a stir fry or something like that?
Plantiful Kiki:
Just a really good pan, honestly, or just having your cocoa aminos or your soy sauce to throw in the pan and throw your veggies in. But onions, bell peppers, mushrooms. They all brown up beautifully in a pan with nothing, which I never knew if you have a good non-stick pan.
Rip Esselstyn:
I know. Isn't it something?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Do you have a favorite pan that you recommend?
Plantiful Kiki:
So I have a Hexclad hybrid, which I do like but somebody just told me about a Scanpan, and everybody's been raving about a scanpan, so now I feel like I need to try that out.
Rip Esselstyn:
Scan, S-C-A-N?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Scanpan. We'll have to do a little research on it. Interesting. What are your thoughts on vegetables for breakfast? Are you a fan?
Plantiful Kiki:
I am a huge fan. I love vegetables for breakfast. We travel a lot. Literally in every country we've been to. You're served vegetables with your breakfast. It's only in the US that I've ever seen just pancakes on a menu. So it wasn't a foreign concept to me. And in Mexico, we eat beans and wilted greens with our tortillas for breakfast. So I think it's great if you just... I always tell people, if you cannot stomach veggies in the morning, thin, fresh, whole fruit is excellent. Do that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I've never been a huge fan of most for breakfast. I know that Chef AJ is also a fan of veggies for breakfast. I've gotten to the point where I have no problem doing steamed kale as a side dish or even throwing it into, believe it or not, my oatmeal. And my mother has taught me to really love a savory oatmeal with shiitake mushrooms and greens, and yeast, and sriracha. It's really amazing.
Plantiful Kiki:
I have never tried that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Maybe the next expanded edition. What about snacking? What are your thoughts on snacking?
Plantiful Kiki:
I am an avid snacker, but I had to train myself to snack only on fresh fruits or vegetables with a little hummus or dip them in my ranch, something like that, because the crackers, the snacking on nuts or chips, that will just go the opposite direction.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. In a hurry for sure. What about movement exercise? You a fan?
Plantiful Kiki:
I am an absolute fan. So I've always been an active person, but when I was so heavy, it was very difficult. So I always tell people, "Look, you don't have to sign up for a marathon. You don't even have to get a gym membership." Just walk. That's what the longest lived people groups on the planet do. They just walk. And that is an excellent form of exercise. Start getting out there. Start with 20 minutes a day and go from there. For me personally, I minimum hit 10,000 steps a day.
Rip Esselstyn:
And you're typically at altitude, right?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. We're not too high. We're about 7,500 feet above sea level.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's pretty high.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. Well, I guess when we go hiking, you end up at 12,000 feet above sea level, so that's where you're like, "I can't breathe."
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. I guess it's all a matter of perspective. God, I'd be at 7,500, I would be huffing and puffing. Wow. You are a big advocate of self-love.
Plantiful Kiki:
Mm-hmm.
Rip Esselstyn:
So can you talk to the audience just for a sec about why you are such an advocate of self-love over self-hate?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. I know without a doubt that whatever your belief systems are is what will give you the results that you have in your life. So when it came to weight loss, I had always tried to lose weight because I hated the way I looked. And when I started the starch solution, I had given up. I was a little hopeful, but I decided I was hopeful I was going to lose weight, but I didn't expect it. So I decided that this time I was going to really tackle my self-worth and work on my health because I value myself and I wanted to love myself. And that changed my life.
It changed my life because I was no longer in an antagonistic relationship with myself. I wasn't trying to change something that I hate, which can only go for so long. I was taking care of myself because I loved myself, because I valued myself. I valued my health. I valued myself as an individual, and it made all the difference in the world.
Rip Esselstyn:
What was it that allowed that switch to turn on from self-hate to self-love? And I love the way you say, "What we love, we take care of."
Plantiful Kiki:
This process had actually been going on for several years before I went to the starch solution. So I'd already developed self-worth before I hit the starch solution. And I just feel like stars align when you're ready. So after I had my daughter, I realized I was the heaviest I'd ever been. And I realized that even when I was thinner, 30 pounds thinner, I didn't love myself. I felt just as unhappy with my body and myself as I did at my heaviest. And so that's when I started realizing that I was chasing my own tail and that I needed to address the real issue, which wasn't what the scale said what was between my ears. And so I did.
I just started daily tackling my belief systems. And when you start paying attention to the conversations you allow in your head, it can be really eyeopening.
Rip Esselstyn:
Did that involve journaling, any kind of therapy?
Plantiful Kiki:
It did.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. No therapy. I had two young kids in no time or money. So I got a journal and I decided, "Okay, I can't think of anything I love about myself except maybe my hair." So I made a list of the things that I could appreciate about myself, and that's what I tell people, "If there's nothing that you love about yourself, I want you to make a list of the things you can appreciate about yourself." So I wrote down things like, "I appreciate that I was able to carry two healthy babies and bring those babies into the world. I appreciate that I didn't die the last time I had the flu. I thought I was going to die, felt like I was going to die, but I didn't."
So I wrote down a silly list. Some things were meaningful and some things were kind of silly because I was just grasping for anything. And I decided that every morning I was going to sit with that before I started my day, because I really wanted to be intentional about how I started my day, and I sat with myself, and I just put my hand on my heart and one on my abdomen, and I would say, "I appreciate this about myself."
I would go through that list and I would say it out loud. And the beautiful thing is I would do that in the morning and at night before I'd go to bed. So I was starting my day this beautiful way, and I was ending my day. No matter what kind of day I had, I was ending my day with the things I appreciated about myself and all the things that I'm grateful for in life, children, husband, I have breath in my lungs. And what I found was over time.
That self appreciation grew into self-respect. And I was no longer engaging in the demeaning talk with my girlfriends at the table. Women tend to go in and talk bad about themselves, where I would jump in, it felt wrong. So I wouldn't do it anymore. I wouldn't engage in that. And the once in a while where I would still put myself down, I would now catch it and say, "Okay. No, I'm amazing. I'm not going to talk to myself that way anymore."
So what I found is that appreciation grew into self-respect, and then that self-respect grew into a deep, meaningful self-love. And I can tell you that I love who I am, which is why I think part of the reason I'm so successful on social media is I know who I am, and that has allowed me to continue to take care of myself and help other people learn to take care of themselves as well.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. No, you're right. I think when you're authentically yourself and people can tell, and congratulations to you on tapping into that and doing the work that it takes to make that transition.
Plantiful Kiki:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
You mentioned that back in the day you would do some of these diets with your mother and your brother. I'm wondering, where are your mother and your brother these days? Are they on board with the way that would you prescribe or not?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. My brother is like, "No way. No way." He's not even remotely interested. Supportive of me, but not interested. My mom has done a great job. She's lost some weight. She's got a ways to go, but she tries. She really does. As much as she can she tries. And so I'll take any little bit of good food that she'll eat.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right. It's amazing to me how I look at your success with the weight loss, with your platform, with your books now. I'm amazed that your brother, your mother, friends, family, don't flock to you and say, "Kiki, I want to do exactly what you're doing." But I know because I've been in your shoes, that that's not how it works.
Plantiful Kiki:
It isn't. It isn't how it works.
Rip Esselstyn:
Which leads me to this, and you say that this is pretty important, and that is to know your reason. So I'm wondering, what was your reason for going on this journey? Was it to find the self-love, or what was your powerful motivating reason? Because you say everybody should figure out what that is.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. So it was no longer about how I look. I was really going down a bad path health wise, and I felt out of control. I felt like my health was deteriorating and there's nothing I could do about it. And so my reason was that I wanted to live a healthy life for as long as I could with my babies that I have to raise. So that was really my why. I didn't want to be my family members on 20 different medications and shots because of their diabetes and all of that stuff. So for me, it really was health. It's scary to feel your health slipping away from you and not knowing what to do about it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, especially when you're relatively young.
Plantiful Kiki:
I was so young. Yeah, I was in my 30s.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. There you go. And you still look like you're in your 30s.
Plantiful Kiki:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. This is a little thing that I do with cookbook authors is I'm going to go through and I want to go through about maybe 12 of your recipes, and I'm going to show the audience, if you're watching audience members on YouTube, you'll be able to see. If not, you'll be able to get the idea here. So your book is broken up into different sections. You've got breakfast, you've got lunch and dinner and you've got soups, salads, sides and sauces. You've got snacks. And then lastly, desserts. And we're going to touch upon each one of them.
So we're going to start with breakfast. We're going to work through this way. One of the things that I used to love before I went whole food plant based, I used to love egg white omelets. I just adore them. And you have a vegetable omelet that caught my eye. I'd love for you to just talk about this if you can for a little bit, because you use mung bean.
Plantiful Kiki:
Mung beans, yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mung beans. And does it actually flip well and work well?
Plantiful Kiki:
It does. It's almost like a pancake, like a thin pancake.
Rip Esselstyn:
Anything else you want to tell me about this recipe?
Plantiful Kiki:
So the reason I love mung beans... Now, I love a good chickpea omelet too, but chickpea can have a really strong flavor for people, whereas mung bean is very, very mild. And if you just get some of the black salt off of Amazon or go to a local Indian grocery store, it has a sulfury flavor. And man, it just tastes like how I remember eggs tasting. Because I love eggs.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. A lot of people do. I have to say too, and I'm going to turn to the page to look at this next recipe that I want to talk about, and that is Maple pecan sweet potatoes, right?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
You've taken two of my favorite foods, potato and a banana. And you combine them. I've never in my life thought of putting a banana into a sweet potato, but now that I see it, I can taste it and it feels perfect.
Plantiful Kiki:
It's really good. And it's actually my son that came up with that, because he did not like sweet potatoes. So he was being rude and just slapping his banana on there. He was like, "Oh my gosh, this is really good."
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh my gosh. I mean, brilliant. And you also mentioned, because I read every one of your introduction stories on the recipes that you're not a huge fan of sweet potato. You want to be, because you know how healthy they are. But what is it about the sweet potato that you don't just like love them?
Plantiful Kiki:
I think I'm a savory girl... Okay, wait. I do love sweet potato now, but in a creamy horse radish sauce. But see, I need that savory in there. I think it's just the sweetness. I don't know what to do with it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right. You definitely need to try that savory steel cut oatmeal that my mother makes then.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. I've never had a savory oatmeal in my life.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. Okay. Next I want to go to the chocolate crunch oats. See, I am such a sweet, sweet tooth. It's great. I have to say too, before you talk about this, who did your photography? Because it is absolutely insane. What a fantastic job-
Plantiful Kiki:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
... you did capturing the deliciousness and the texture and the colors of every one of these recipes.
Plantiful Kiki:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
And every recipe has a photo in it, which I think is a must. Absolute must.
Plantiful Kiki:
Thank you. I did all of it. I styled and shot all of it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. Can I hire you for some of my work?
Plantiful Kiki:
It is a love. I wanted to make sure people... 'Cause we eat with our eyes first. And when you're talking about taking away people's oil and reducing their nuts and avocados, you want to show them how good the food actually looks so that they're inspired to eat.
Rip Esselstyn:
So tell me about this chocolate crunch, oatmeal.
Plantiful Kiki:
I mean, it's dessert for breakfast. It's so, so good.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Would you ever do this using steel cutouts or old fashioned?
Plantiful Kiki:
Oh, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah?
Plantiful Kiki:
Whatever you want. My kids will make that for dessert after dinner at night too.
Rip Esselstyn:
What do you use for the chocolate?
Plantiful Kiki:
I like the cacao, the unsweetened powder, because I find that that's the best way to get the chocolate flavor. And then just some cocoa nibs or even a very light sprinkle of some dairy free chocolate chips is fine in there. So good.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. Next I want to go to page 72. We're talking pumpkin spice waffles. And I just can't believe how easy this is. Right? You throw them all in your blender.
Plantiful Kiki:
So good. Yeah, I love fall.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, you say that here. So this is two cups of rolled oats, two ripe medium bananas, half a cup of canned pure pumpkin puree, two teaspoons of pure vanilla extract, one teaspoon of pumpkin pie spice, and then that's really it.
Plantiful Kiki:
That's it. It's so easy.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you don't have to put in the baking soda or the baking powder in order to get kind of them to rise and puff and stuff?
Plantiful Kiki:
I didn't feel like there was a substantial difference. And if I can cut something out, I'll make a cut.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, these look absolutely delicious. And every Sunday I make pancakes and waffles for our family, so I am going to give these a whirl this coming Sunday for sure.
Plantiful Kiki:
They're so good.
Rip Esselstyn:
And then we also talk... You mentioned a little spray, and I know these waffle irons sometimes can be finicky and a little spray goes a long way. You use avocado oil. Any reason avocado as opposed to something else?
Plantiful Kiki:
I don't want to use palm. That is scary. I don't know what sort of propellants are in there. That is the cleanest one I can find, to be honest. These little mountain towns in Colorado. You don't always have a great pick.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. All right. One of my favorite things in the whole wide world are wonderful home fries. I saw these, and I mean, I almost could taste them just by looking at these. And these are your smokehouse steak fries.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Tell me the trick.
Plantiful Kiki:
Okay.
Rip Esselstyn:
Of your smokehouse steak fries. What can people do to get the same results?
Plantiful Kiki:
So the trick is use your leftover potatoes that have been in the fridge. You want a cold already cooked potatoes. Don't cook them and then chop them up while they're hot. It won't work. It'll turn to mush. So you want cooked potatoes that have been sitting in the fridge are nice and cold. They're best like three-day-old cooked potato. So you slice them up, throw all... Put them in a... Here, I actually have one. Put them in a container like this, throw a ton of seasonings on there, put the lid on, and then shake them like nothing. I mean, just shake, shake, shake. It roughens up the fries and it jams the seasonings in there. And then when you bake or air fry those suckers, they are good. They are crunchy and flavorful. So good.
Rip Esselstyn:
So crispy on the outside and moist on the inside?
Plantiful Kiki:
They're amazing.
Rip Esselstyn:
Nice. What's your condiment of choice? Ketchup, sriracha, mustard?
Plantiful Kiki:
For fries, I love ketchup.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Do you have a particular brand that you like?
Plantiful Kiki:
It's so bad. I'm a Heinz, not a Hunt's, and I try to find the organic Heinz so it doesn't have red number 40 and high fructose corn syrup in it.
Rip Esselstyn:
All right. This is page 116. These are the Masa cakes.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
They caught my eye because I love open face sandwiches, and I love the look of these with the refried beans on top, some avocado, and then pico de gallo, some onions, and a little bit of cilantro. Can you tell me how hard or easy is it to make these?
Plantiful Kiki:
This is so easy, and you want to make the pickled onions to go on top of those because the pickled onions just make all the difference. I am 50% Mayan Indian, and this is a Mayan-
Rip Esselstyn:
Really?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yes. And this is a Mayan staple, but in the Yucatan, they deep fry, the Masa cake. And you don't want any of that business. All you do is form them, put them on your griddle, and it's so good and so, so filling.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's another one that I'm going to have to try. Thanks a lot. Okay. We love making casseroles. I've got three kids and we love casseroles. This caught my eye, this cheesy broccoli rice casserole.
Plantiful Kiki:
Oh, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
We love broccoli. And just everything about this looked like a nice dinner dish to me. What can you tell me about this?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. I was almost embarrassed putting that in, to be honest 'cause it's so lazy.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, we like it.
Plantiful Kiki:
Right. My whole book is just busy mom. You got to feed kids. So all it is you. And actually, this is how I was hiding brown rice in my children's food. So if you are trying to get brown rice in, this is the best way to do it. So it seriously is just your cooked rice. Chop up a ton of broccoli, mix it in there, put in your entire jar of cheese sauce in there, and then if you want to go the extra mile, we like some gluten-free breadcrumbs over the top and garlic salt, pop that in the oven and it is so good.
Rip Esselstyn:
What are your thoughts on fresh versus frozen broccoli for this dish?
Plantiful Kiki:
I can't remember the last time I had fresh broccoli in my-
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, there you go.
Plantiful Kiki:
... fridge.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's the answer. Just listen. 80% of the time, that's what we do. We do frozen broccoli.
Plantiful Kiki:
I was actually embarrassed to even start a YouTube channel because I am not like... You see so many of the influencers out there and everything is so aesthetic and inspirational. I'm just like in my sweatpants and my bun over here trying to make it through the day.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes. Well, it's real. I think we need to jump ahead to the cheese less cheese sauce that you put in 25% of your recipe.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Can you tell me about this and why do you love it so much?
Plantiful Kiki:
So I love that because I was a dairy addict for sure. I read Dr. Barnard's book on cheese, and I was like, "Yep, that's me." I was the dairy addict. That was probably the hardest. I didn't have trouble giving up even the bacon. It was the dairy, the cheese. So I was trying a bunch of recipes. I'm not a huge fan of nutritional yeast, and so I just kept playing with it. One night I got the proportions right, the flavor of the nutritional use isn't overpowering. Actually I just leave it out now, don't even bother to put it in. Like I said, if I can make a cut, I make a cut. I don't know. And that is my most popular recipe. That is my claim to fame. People go nuts over that cheese sauce.
Rip Esselstyn:
So for people that are wondering if you don't mind, I'm going to read the ingredients. Three cups of diced peeled white potatoes, half a cup of diced carrots, half a cup of raw unsalted cashews. And then you have the three tablespoons of nutritional yeast optional, two teaspoons of garlic powder or minced fresh garlic, two teaspoons of sea salt, one and a half teaspoon of fresh lemon juice, and then one teaspoon of onion powder. Yum.
Plantiful Kiki:
It's so good. People are always like, "How can you get a cheese sauce?" I'm like, "Hey, it tastes like queso. And you throw some pickle jalapenos in there and some of the jalapeno juice, oh my gosh, it's so good."
Rip Esselstyn:
All right. I'm moving on now to soups and salads. I want to start with this. So I need to preface this by saying like you one of my favorite places to go out to dinner is Thai restaurants. I love the Massaman curry. You talk about here, and when you're in Breckenridge, you go to Bangkok Happy Bowl.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
And you love the yellow curries. Oh, wait, no, you said that... Wait. Your favorite is the Thai coconut curry. So this is your dish, right?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
And it's inspired by that restaurant, Thai coconut curry.
Plantiful Kiki:
So good.
Rip Esselstyn:
What can you tell me about it? What kind of coconut are you using to flavor?
Plantiful Kiki:
So I use the light coconut because the amount of saturated fat in the full fat coconut scares me a little bit. So I thought I love a good creamy type. But anyway, that was my closest... People love that one too. And what I have found now, I can't remember in that recipe... I don't use a paste, I just use powders. Correct? I don't have it in front of me.
Rip Esselstyn:
As far as which ingredient are we talking about now?
Plantiful Kiki:
The curry.
Rip Esselstyn:
The curry, let me see. You use a red curry paste.
Plantiful Kiki:
Oh, see, there you go. And the pastes are the way to go. It gives you such a restaurant flavor. You can't go wrong.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Now, this one really caught my eye and this is this...
Plantiful Kiki:
Hungarian mushroom.
Rip Esselstyn:
Hungarian mushroom soup. And let me tell you why. Well, back in the day, I used to date a Hungarian woman. And so I've been over to Hungary many times, and I know all about their love of mushrooms and peppers and paprika. And I don't love mushrooms. Like you say in the opening, a lot of people don't get excited by mushrooms, but do you think I would like this?
Plantiful Kiki:
What is it that you don't like about mushrooms? If people don't like the texture, then I say chop them up, man. Don't put big old slices of mushroom in there. If it's just a texture thing, chop those suckers up. But if it's a flavor thing, it's definitely not for you.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, it's definitely a texture thing. And I don't-
Plantiful Kiki:
Chop them up.
Rip Esselstyn:
They're too spongy. I don't like the sponge in it. I can't stand a Portobello mushroom burger that hasn't been just cooked down to where it's like Portobello jerky. Right?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's just me.
Plantiful Kiki:
I mean, it's so good. I would stick with the tortilla soup.
Rip Esselstyn:
I mean, look at that photo though. I mean, it's crazy. And then you have some wonderful... What's the white cream that you have on there?
Plantiful Kiki:
It's just the almond milk that I mix in.
Rip Esselstyn:
Almond milk?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. And I just drizzled it on there for the picture.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. Now you have some incredibly delicious looking salads in here. But what I want to talk about right now is salad dressing, because to me a salad dressing really makes the salad.
Plantiful Kiki:
Oh, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
So let's talk about this. What are we talking about? This cashew ranch dressing. Are you a fan of that?
Plantiful Kiki:
Oh my gosh. Like that and cheese sauce saved my life. Those are my two most popular hands down loved recipes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. What's the key to this? What are the key ingredients? Do you remember?
Plantiful Kiki:
So I make that every other day. So just the combination between the cashews and the milk. I will say you have to find a thicker milk or add a little bit more cashews because if you get a really watery plant milk, it is going to be a little bit runnier. I also don't love a really thick ranch. So some people that are really ranch connoisseurs and want a really thick dippable ranch, this isn't your ranch. You'd have to add more cashews.
But just the combination of the simple garlic powder, onion powder. We're not fancy over here. We're not chopping fresh garlic. We're not dicing a shallot. So I'd like to be on that level maybe someday, but it's just delicious.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, ranch used to be my favorite dressing back before I went plant-based. And now I've been doing this 35 years, and I've had a couple good plant-based ranch dressings, but I really look forward to trying this one. Okay. You have a cilantro curry dressing. You like this one?
Plantiful Kiki:
I do. And that one was really surprising. It just came to me one day and it's just a nice change.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. You had your dressing muse visit you one night?
Plantiful Kiki:
I did.
Rip Esselstyn:
And it's a quarter cup Dijon mustard, a quarter cup pure maple syrup, one tablespoon chopped fresh cilantro leaves, two teaspoons of fresh lime juice, and then a half a teaspoon of yellow curry powder. See now, feel free to adjust the amount of curry to suit your taste. What are your thoughts on cilantro? 'Cause I know that cilantro is very divisive. Some people think it tastes like soap.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. So if you don't like cilantro, I always say, "Well, just put in some parsley." You're not going to get the same flavor, but it will brighten up. The reason I love cilantro, but it brightens up the flavor so much, and you'll still get a nice brighter flavor if you add a non-offensive herb like parsley.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. All right. I'm going to move on to your snack section. I can't believe how many delicious hummuses and really chickpea foundational ingredients you have in here like your chickpea chicken salad. But I want to talk to you right now about this because I've never seen anything microwave potato chips and I can't wait to try them. How good are they?
Plantiful Kiki:
They taste just like the kettle brand of potato chips. Actually, I have to thank my mom for that because she was like, "Oh". And she digs in her cabinet and pulls out this potato chip dish she put in the microwave. And she's like, "These weird, all the rage in the early '90s during the fat free, late '80s, early '90s." And so it's this thing where you just put your little slices of potatoes. But the paper towel works great, so I did that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah, they're delicious.
Rip Esselstyn:
All right. I'm moving on to desserts now. Holy Toledo. I don't necessarily want you to talk about this one. I just want people to see this photograph and just see... You call this your what, candy bar bites. It's what? Medjool dates stuff with some peanut butter and some sort of a drizzle.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. That's just like a drizzle of the PB2.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh my gosh.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Love it.
Plantiful Kiki:
My daughter makes those every night.
Rip Esselstyn:
So on page 246, I want you to talk about this. So this looks like raw chocolate chip cookie dough you've made with chickpeas. I want to know, is it worth it to make?
Plantiful Kiki:
Oh my gosh, it's so worth it. It is so worth it. It tastes just like cookie dough.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. And your ingredients are 115 ounce of can of chickpeas, drained and rinsed, a quarter cup of pure maple syrup, two teaspoons of pure vanilla extract, half a teaspoon of baking powder, a quarter cup of oat flour, and a pinch of sea salt, and then two tablespoons of dairy free mini chocolate chips. You like the enjoy life vegan mini chocolate chips?
Plantiful Kiki:
I do.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. Okay. That's one that I need to try for my kids for sure.
Plantiful Kiki:
It's so good. And then you can bake them off if you don't want it raw.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. And then we're going to end with this because people that are fans of the podcast know that I love chocolate more than anything. You're black bean brownies. Look at that stack. I mean, how delicious is that? And these are black bean brownies.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. I couldn't believe it. My kids were just like, "I don't want black bean brownies." I'm like, "Guys, these are amazing." They love them. They're so good.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm not going to read the recipe. If you want the recipe, you need to go to Amazon and go grab yourself a copy of this really fantastic book. Well, Kiki, who did you write the book for? What inspired you to write a book? Because writing a book, it is a labor of love.
Plantiful Kiki:
It is.
Rip Esselstyn:
Why did you decide to write the book?
Plantiful Kiki:
I love this question. When I started my YouTube channel and I started seeing the same questions over and over again, I realized that I had an opportunity to simplify everything for people. So I wrote the book for all of the people out there that have struggled, and I mean, struggled to lose weight and get healthy because so many of us just don't know what to do and don't know where to get started.
So I love people, and when I had such success, I felt like there's no way I can keep this to myself. There's no way. My goal was to reach 100 people. So I feel very blessed.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I know you've done a lot more than that. I can remember at some point when you launched this book, it was like, what? Top 15, top 20 on Amazon of all books. I mean, you crushed it.
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. I'm so grateful. Everybody has been so amazing.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's incredible. I love the way you've taken some really tried and true principles, and you've made them your own voice and done it your way. So man, kudos to you.
Plantiful Kiki:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
And your dedication is... Let me just read it. You say, "Dor all the beautiful souls who have struggled with their weight loss..." Wait. "For all the beautiful souls who have struggled with their weight and health, you are valuable and capable. Let's do this." You are a beautiful soul and I so appreciate you coming and sharing your story and your new book, and some of these recipes with me and all of the people that are listening on the PLANTSTRONG podcast. It's a real treat.
Plantiful Kiki:
Thank you so much. This has been so much fun.
Rip Esselstyn:
And so you mentioned your platform. Where can people, if they want to follow you, what's the best way for them to do that?
Plantiful Kiki:
Yeah. So I am very, very active on Instagram because I love putting up reels multiple times a week just to get more content out to you guys. So Instagram is great, @plantifulkiki and YouTube @plantifulkiki.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wonderful. Well, Kiki, you get back to your vacation.
Plantiful Kiki:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
And I wish you all the best and you keep it PLANTSTRONG. Plantiful Kiki:
Thank you so much.
Rip Esselstyn:
Give me a fist bump. Boom.
Plantiful Kiki:
In the camera.
Rip Esselstyn:
There you go. All right. Bye-Bye.
Plantiful Kiki:
Bye.
Rip Esselstyn:
Plantifully Lean is out now and features plenty of mouthwatering recipes, meal prep guidelines, and gorgeous photos to inspire your own personal transformation. We'll be sure to link to this in the show notes. With that, my friends, keep it lean, keep it Plantiful, and always keep it PLANTSTRONG. See you next week.
Thank you for listening to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. You can support the show by taking a quick minute to follow us wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. Leaving us a positive review and sharing the show with your network is another great way to help us reach as many people as possible with the exciting news about plants. Thank you in advance for your support. It means everything.
The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowic, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin, and Wade Clark. This season is dedicated to all of those courageous, true seekers who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth. Most notably, my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr. and Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks for listening.
