#208: Mike Melloh - A Harrowing Surgery Story You Have to Hear to Believe
Not long ago, we received an email that stopped us in our tracks. It was a letter of thanks written to Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., but the email also told a harrowing surgery story that was so compelling, we just had to share it with you. And, it’s actually the first time Rip and his father have interviewed a patient together on the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
Our guest, Mike Melloh, was seemingly doing everything right. He exercised regularly, ate a “healthy” diet, and even booked appointments for preventative tests to ensure he was a picture of health, as he always believed.
He was in for the surprise of his life and what happened next is something no one could predict, but it's given Mike a whole new appreciation for life and for the power of whole food, plant-based nutrition.
His story and the facts that Dr. Esselstyn share on this episode are powerful. Please listen and share because it just may save a life.
Episode Resources
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Full Transcript via AI transcription
[0:00] Let me share with you exactly what I'm having for dinner tonight.
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Thanks so much.
[1:21] I'm Rip Esselstyn, and welcome to the PlantStrong Podcast. The mission at PlantStrong is to further the advancement of all things within the plant-based movement.
We advocate for the scientifically proven benefits of plant-based living and envision a world that universally understands, promotes, and prescribes plants as a solution to empowering your health, enhancing your performance, restoring the environment, and becoming better guardians to the animals we share this planet with.
We welcome you wherever you are on your PlantStrong journey, and I hope that you enjoy the show. Not long ago.
[2:03] I received an email that I had to read twice because it was so incredibly moving, impactful, powerful, literally it stopped me in my tracks. And it was a letter of thanks that was written to my father, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr., but the email also told a story, a very cautionary story that was so compelling, I wanted to have this conversation to share with you.
And fortunately, our guest, Michael Melloh, agreed to share it with all of you firsthand.
And what makes this conversation so special is that it's actually the first time that I've sat down next to my father to interview a patient together with him, for the PlantStrong podcast.
Now, a little background on Mike.
Mike was a person who was seemingly doing everything right. He was in his mid fifties.
He was exercising six times a week.
He ate a healthy pescatarian diet and even booked appointments for a preventative test just to ensure that he was in fact a picture of health as his doctors had pretty much told him.
[3:25] Up to this point in time.
Now, what happens next is his incredulous story that we're going to share with you right now.
[3:39] And I'd like for you to welcome both my father, Dr. Caldwell B Esselstyn Jr. and Mike Melloh to the PLANTSTRONG podcast.
Interview with Mike Melloh begins, discussing his health journey and background
[3:50] Well, Mike, thank you so much for agreeing to come on the PlantStrong podcast.
You have, to me, one of the most incredible stories that I've ever heard of, and I thank, you for sharing that with me.
But I think it's also a bit of a, potentially a cautionary tale.
Yes. And, you know, knowing what you know now, I'm sure there's some things that you probably would have done much differently.
But I'd love for our listeners to just kind of hear your story from start to finish, because it's absolutely remarkable.
And let me just start with this. And then I want this guy on board, because there's going to be a lot of terminology that I think a lot of us probably don't understand, and I'd like for him to kind of lay it out, there in layman's terms.
So for starters, where are you right now? Are you in Cleveland? Where are you?
I met my daughter and son-in-law's house in Lakewood. Yep. Oh, we got here last night.
[4:51] Gotcha. And if you don't mind me asking, uh, how old are you?
I am 57 years old. 57 years young. 57. And what part of the country did you grow up in?
I grew up in Indianapolis. I was one of four sons. My mom and dad raised us in Indianapolis and we lived there really until I got my first job and moved to Illinois. I spent most of my, career though in the Midwest. Right, and like kind of growing up in early adulthood, did you always consider yourself to be a pretty healthy guy? Yeah, I mean I would say we grew up eating like most families in the Midwest eat though. I mean it was, as I've heard you characterize many, many times, the SADD diet, the Standard American Diet. We were not health conscious at all. It's not like we avoided fruits and vegetables. They were just not a priority come mealtime. My mom is the first to tell anybody that she's not a great cook.
[5:58] And so, you know, we sort of had the same thing kind of over and over and over again.
Thursday was always pizza night. Friday, we usually went out to dinner somewhere.
My father played poker every Saturday, so we were sort of on our own Saturday.
And Sunday was usually like a pot roast with potatoes. So, but we drank a lot of soda.
We ate a lot of sugar.
And that was just kind of, you know, the culture and the way we grew up.
[6:28] But were you ever overweight or did you ever have any kind of health issues?
Never had any health issues. Um, you know, I was a kid that was not overweight per se, but, you know, it was in the Husky genes.
Um, but I was active, I played sports and, um, Got really, really serious about physical fitness though, about 10 years ago.
At that point in time, my weight had shot up, I was busy, I was working a lot, our kids were getting, they were older, so we didn't have kind of the tug and the pull of, you know, their schedules through, you know, elementary school, junior high, high school, etc.
Mike's decision to focus on his health and adopt a pescatarian diet
[7:14] So, I had a little bit more time on my hands to kind of focus on my health.
My health. So I decided to get a personal trainer. I started working with a personal trainer, lost a considerable amount of weight, and adopted a pescetarian diet.
[7:35] And this is like, give me the timeline when you- This was 10 years ago. So I was, at the time I was 46.
Okay, now I have to stop you for a sec because I've neglected to let people know that your full name is Mike Melloh and it's pronounced Mellow.
That's correct. How cool was it growing up as a kid saying, you know, first day of class, you know, Mike Melloh?
Yeah, I mean, you know, all through school, I was pretty much just Melloh.
You know, my my first name was dropped, they just called me Melloh.
That's the best nickname ever. would you say that you're a mellow guy?
I'm not really sure I epitomize a mellow guy all the time. My wife would tell you that I can be pretty intense.
But the only thing that I couldn't do with the last name Melloh is marry a girl named Marsha.
That would not have worked.
Marsha's Health Journey and Pescatarian Diet
[8:37] Right, Marsha. That's good. That's good. What is your wife's first name? Ellen.
Ellen Melloh. Yeah, we've been married 35 years. Wow.
Okay, so let's get back. So you said about 46. Yeah, 46. I got very serious about health.
I adopted a pescatarian diet. So I eliminated all red meat, chicken, pork.
I really was watching carbs, generally speaking. I really wasn't distinguishing between complex carbs and simple carbs.
I just thought, you know, getting rid of carbs and, you know, pastas and grains and so forth was a good idea.
And it ultimately had the desired effect. I lost weight. I felt good.
The exercise regimen that I adopted was pretty rigorous. I was doing strength training four days a week.
And also during those four days, I was doing cardio.
The days I wasn't doing strength training, I was doing only cardio.
So really, there was only one day a week that I took off in terms of any physical activity.
And that's really been my regimen for 10 plus years.
[9:57] I don't miss a workout. It doesn't matter if we're on vacation or traveling.
I am intent to get my workout in.
Yeah. So, um...
Who was it that recommended that you go on a pescetarian diet?
You avoid chicken, red meat, eggs, I'm assuming.
Eggs too or no?
No. I was eating dairy. I was eating a lot of eggs.
I've never been a big milk guy, and I really was never a big cheese guy, but I definitely ate eggs and I ate a lot of yogurt.
Okay. Got it. vegetarian, eating a lot of eggs and yogurt. So and you're working out six days a week.
Got it. And then and then tell us what happened where you you kind of what was it that led you to found to fountain life and to kind of have all that testing done. So I was listening to a podcast in the gym.
And the individual being interviewed on the podcast was Tony Robbins.
And Tony Robbins had just come out with his book. I think it's called life force. That's exactly what I had Actually, I had Tony on the podcast.
[11:16] When his book came out and we talked all about fountain life and Cleary and some of this incredible, Technology that's coming out. So I have since listened to that podcast. Okay was not the podcast I was listening to when I originally got turned on to to Tony's book and Fountain Life, but probably about six, seven weeks ago, I actually listened to that podcast between you and Tony.
Yeah, yeah.
And, but his, his, his, what he was saying to you was essentially the same kinds of things he was saying to this particular interviewer at the time that I listened to it.
And I was just fascinated, frankly, by all the advances in biotech and very curious to to know.
[12:04] About these diagnostic tests that can find something lurking in your body before they manifest themselves as a problem. And so I had a conversation with my wife. This was, March of last year. And I said, hey, we should look into this. And she was a little bit more reluctant. She was a little bit more hesitant. I said, well, you know, I think we should at least consider it. And so I had to work on her for a while. She was one that, you know, if there's something wrong, I really don't want to know. And I said, well, look, I don't want to know if I have stage four cancer necessarily, if there's nothing I can do about it. But if I have stage one cancer and there's things that I can do about it, why wouldn't we? You know, and so I finally wore down.
[12:53] So she can, she consented to go with me. It took us six months to get an appointment. Once we called, We were not able, we were not scheduled until September of last year.
And as luck would have it, Hurricane Ian hit, and so the Naples Center was closed following the hurricane.
So we actually got rescheduled to November of 2022.
So that's when we drove from Sarasota, where we live now, down to Naples.
And we had a great experience there. The staff was wonderful, the facilities are incredible. It was it was a very.
[13:38] Extensive set of diagnostic tests that we had. We had blood biopsies done. Of, course, you have to indicate at the beginning. They ask you, hey, do you want, to know everything that we find? Do you want to know about those things that we can do something about? Or do you want to, you know, do you want to just sort of decide later? And so both of us looked at each other and said, no, we want to know everything. When you decided to sign up to go to Fountain Life, was, there a menu of different tests that you could decide that you wanted to do or is just when you go you just have like from head to toe everything done to you? Yeah.
Yeah, it wasn't so much like kind of a drop-down menu where you chose this and that. It was a it was an extensive exhaustive set of tests. You know, you had We had a DEXA bone density scan.
We had a complete MRI from head to toe.
We had the CT scans with the CLEARLY software.
[14:42] Can you tell people that don't know, what do you know about the CLEARLY software, like this artificial intelligence?
Yes, as I understand it's a software, It's powered by AI that can look at the scan and give a range of calcification in your arteries.
Uncertain test results and scheduling a follow-up visit
[15:09] It's not precise for sure. And I spoke to another cardiologist shortly after I did the test and his office actually decided not to even use clearly because it has a tendency in his opinion to sort of overstate.
[15:27] Blockage. But nevertheless, the range that was given to me, so what happened was, you know, we said, yes, we want to know everything. They said, okay, well, once you leave here today, you know, we'll schedule your follow-up visit. It'll be about two weeks from now. You'll meet with the medical director. He'll review all of your results, unless, of course, there's a problem, in which case we would call you right away. And so, you know, we left.
That we weren't going to hear anything inside of two weeks because we were both feeling very healthy. Neither one of us had any symptoms to indicate there was any illness lurking anywhere. So we're at breakfast the next morning and my phone rings and I pick it up and I look at it and I see caller ID and it's Fountain Life, and it's the medical director from the center.
[16:27] So we had just finished breakfast. We hadn't paid our bill yet.
And I looked at my wife, and I said, I need to take this.
So I stepped outside, and he's like, Mike, this is Dr. Kingsbury from Fountain Life.
Hey, I wanted to give you a call because I was looking at your test results.
And this is probably not going to come as a surprise to you, but we detected some blockage, some significant blockage.
And I'm concerned, A, about the blockage, but I'm also very concerned about the location because it's your left anterior descending artery.
And of course, I knew that that was often referred to as the widowmaker.
And so I said, well, I am surprised because I don't have any symptoms.
He said, you're not short of breath.
I said, no. He said, you don't have any difficulty breathing. I said, no.
And I said, you know, I work out pretty hard. I get my heart rate up to, you know, 150, 160 beats a minute.
I said, you know, I press.
And he said, well, he said, I'm not telling you to go to the emergency room, but you do need to get a cardiologist.
And so I hung up. And, you know, we didn't have, all of our doctors were still in Indiana.
So we didn't even, I didn't have a primary care doc in Sarasota.
[17:55] So I made a couple of phone calls, did a little bit of networking, found a cardiologist, an interventionist, I think you're calling the cardiologist that does interventions, which is what he recommended.
[18:10] So I think it took about two weeks to get in to see him. And was this somebody, this is somebody that was in Florida?
Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Somebody in, uh, in Sarasota.
Got it. Who had a good reputation. And I think he was, he was, um, well-known in cardiology circles.
[18:30] And so, um, like I said, it took about two weeks to get in to see him and my wife and I both went to the appointment.
And he walked in, and it was at the end of the day. It was like a late appointment, like 4, 430 in the afternoon.
So he had seen patients all day.
And he walked in, and he sort of kind of laughed a bit. I should back up.
He did get all of my test results prior to seeing me. So he had access to those and presumably had an opportunity to look at them.
But he kind of laughed a bit when he came into the exam room because he said, he just took one look at me.
And he's like, wow, you're the healthiest person I've seen all day without doing, without doing anything.
He goes, you win. Then he got more serious. We had a conversation about, you know, my calcification score, which was 1042.
So it was 1042 was my calcification.
And that was, and that was a calcification score that you got when you were at Fountain Life? That's right.
[19:32] Yeah, that's correct. And so he said, well, I think the first thing we need to do is a stress test.
And I had had stress tests every year, really, since I was like 40.
Before I retired, I worked as an executive in a company, and one of our benefits was an executive physical program. And I took advantage of that every year.
And it was an exhaustive physical. It wasn't like Fountain Life, but it was, you know, I was there a half a day and one of the tests they did was a stress test and it was, it was not a nuclear stress test.
It was a, um...
[20:17] Basically look at your VO2 max. And so they clip your nose shut and they're taking your blood pressure and you've got this mask on. And so one more reason why I was very surprised when the doctor called me and told me that I had blockage because my EKGs every year were normal.
As a matter of fact, my last stress test that was monitored by EKG in October of 2021, on, my doctor said, for a 55-year-old man, your stress test is perfect.
He goes, I'm going to show my nurse, my new nurse who's starting next week, what a perfect EKG looks like for a 55-year-old male.
So the stress test that the cardiologist ordered was a nuclear stress test, which, again, I had not been subjected to before.
So I went and they injected this radioactive isotope.
And when I was at rest, they sort of watched it travel, took some pictures.
I came back three days later.
They put me on a treadmill, blood pressure cuff, hooked me up to EKG.
All of that was normal.
There were no indications on my EKG that there were any issues.
Got off the treadmill. They injected the radioactive isotope again.
I laid back down on the table. They took pictures.
[21:40] Of course, they don't tell you anything in the moment. I got a call back from my doctor.
He said, hey, come back and see us.
We went in to see him, and he said, well, the stress test confirmed that you have blockage.
[21:56] But you're asymptomatic. We think one of two options is reasonable for you.
Choosing between waiting for symptoms or doing a heart cath
[22:03] You can wait until you become symptomatic, And then we would do a heart cath.
We'd take it into the lab and do an angiogram.
Or we can do that now. And so.
[22:20] Know, I wish I could go back in time to that moment because I would have taken a beat and I would have done some research and I really was not in a position to, advocate for myself because frankly I was uneducated. I just I just didn't know.
All I heard was blockage in my left anterior descending artery. I knew I worked out hard and I didn't want the first symptom to be a heart attack that may or may not survive. Do you feel like you were getting kind of a hard court press to go an option two as opposed to just kind of hang tight? I wouldn't say it was a hard, no, I wouldn't say that. They, I think they honestly believe that one of the, either of those options was reasonable. It was really not a full court press to opt for the angiogram.
I'd love for my father just to weigh in here for a second a couple things before before you kind of continue the first is what what are your thoughts on a Calcification score of like a thousand forty two. Does that mean anything to you?
Well, it's an indication that the patient does have coronary artery disease and we've seen any number of patients in our.
[23:36] Seminars that have calcification scores as high as 3000 Right. And then the other thing that you said is, so they determined that the blockage, was it in your left anterior descending artery, was 80%, Mike, is that correct?
So again, there was a range, they gave me a range, and they said the gold standard to know exactly how much is to do a heart cath. Okay. Okay. And.
[24:04] But they described it as significant blockage. Okay. And then you had that heart cath done, right? I did. And then what did that yield?
So, I went in for the heart catheterization on January 10th, and I was in the lab for two and a half hours, but there was no intervention.
It took them that long to get all the pictures that they wanted.
They went through my wrist first, and then they couldn't get all the pictures.
They said something about my anatomy made it very difficult.
So then they ended up having to go through my groin.
By that time, after two and a half hours, I was getting very, very uncomfortable because I was awake.
I was in a, quote, relaxed state.
[24:55] But you know, my arms started twitching and I was just, the doctor knew that I had had enough.
And I think it's, Dr. Esselstyn would know better for sure, but I think it's relatively, unusual to be in the lab for two and a half hours and there be no intervention. It was just all pictures. Correct. So I came back out and I got out and he said you've had enough I'll talk to you in a little bit. So I went into the the recovery room or whatever you call it and he came back in he said yes the the angiogram confirmed that you do have significant blockage and we do recommend stents.
From stents to the possibility of bypass surgery
[25:38] He said, but there's a chance I'm going to consult with another doctor.
There's a chance that we may do bypass surgery.
And I mean, my jaw just dropped. I mean, I couldn't believe what I was hearing, frankly.
Stents, one thing, but bypass surgery was something that just, you know.
[25:58] It really just kind of took my legs out from underneath me.
So I, you know, just sort of nodded and I said, okay, so I'll hear from you guys soon. And he said, yes.
So the, they got back with me and they said, look, we think bypass surgery is overkill.
We think that the best and effective intervention is to put two heart stents in, one into your left anterior descending, and then the other one was in my, I think it was my left circumflex artery.
And so I went in three weeks later.
Can I stop you? I want to stop you for a sec before you talk about the procedure you had, and let me ask you this.
So he's got significant blockage in his LAD and another artery or two.
Is it uncommon for somebody to have blockages like that and be completely asymptomatic?
No, it certainly can happen. Absolutely.
Right. And I think I read in your letter, Mike, that you have 80% blockage. Is that a number that I'm remembering correctly? Yes. Yeah.
I mean, have you ever counseled patients that have 90 or 100% blockage, but they're asymptomatic?
[27:22] You Yes. And how would you explain that? Is it because they build the corollary, collateral arteries around it?
Or just simply by the anatomy that they have, they are still getting enough oxygenated blood so they're not getting symptoms.
But I think, if I can recall, when we started this years ago, one of the first patients I had had an 80% blockage right at the junction of the left anterior descending and the circumflex right where I think Mike's was.
[27:54] And he was all set to have a bypass operation at the Cleveland Clinic.
Our institution, but he somehow found about the fact that we existed, and he just wanted to hear what we had to say.
And we went through the whole nine yards, and he was having symptoms, but they walked to the mailbox.
So since his surgery was not scheduled for another six weeks ahead.
He aggressively tried the program and suddenly he found out that he could walk, to the mailbox without any symptoms.
And he thought to himself, hmm, this seems like a little kinder way to treat this disease.
Maybe I'll stick with this for a while.
And he gradually increased, increased, increased his efforts.
He was a passionate triathlete.
And after he saw another cardiologist who gave him the green light to go back, after about eight months, he went back to his triathlons.
And this was now, I saw him actually 14 years ago. We called him, because we were going by his.
[29:05] Southern New York State, Route 86, we were going near his house.
We decided to call him, and he's still doing triathlons.
Wow.
And he never had any procedure done. No, and the interesting thing was, when he changed cardiologist, two years after the earlier one, the same blockage was there, but all discomfort was gone.
Yeah, and he was really good. And the blockage because it was calcified, and as you said, when you have the calcification, that's like a tattoo that...
Yeah, but what happens when you're eating this way, all the other arteries that are so-called normal, are not really dilated to their fullest extent, which is why so often these patients, if they have symptoms, within four, six, eight, or 10 days, they begin to improve.
[29:52] So, and so he got out to the mailbox and was doing much better without any kind of symptoms within a couple of days, and well, you said six weeks, right? Thank you.
So, Mr. Melloh, let's come back to you. So you are now staring at this intervention to get the two stents done, right?
Correct. Okay, take it away.
So I guess the headline is I went into the cath lab at 2 p.m.
I did not leave the cath lab until after 11 p.m. and landed in ICU.
[30:27] Basically, anything seemingly that could go wrong, went wrong. So they got me in and they got the, again, I'm in a relaxed state, right?
So I'm awake. They got the first stent in, but when they tried to put the second stent in, and the first stent went in, I should say, into the left circumflex, the second stent.
Wait, are you sedated for this? Are you? I'm sedated, but I'm awake. You are.
They call it a relaxed state. Because sometimes they ask you to do things like cough and, you know, they want you to be able to follow instructions. And so, when they tried to put the second stent in, and that was into my left anterior descending, the doctor said, and I'll never forget he said your body did not like that. That's the that's the only.
Uncontrolled rapid heartbeat: Ventricular Tachycardia and Fibrillation
[31:31] Answer to the question that I've ever got like what happened and why did this happen?
Your body didn't like it. What happened was and Dr. Esselstyn can keep me honest here in terms of the sequence of things but as I understand the first thing that happened is I experienced ventricular tachycardia. Can we stop and so people understand what every term is? So what exactly is that as a sort of an uncontrolled rapid heartbeat for the left ventricle.
Okay, okay.
And it was apparently very, very rapid.
That led to ventricular fibrillation. So- Which is what? That is sort of the natural stepchild, of ventricular tachycardia.
That is very prone to turn into ventricular fibrillation.
From V-fib to Cardiogenic Shock and Sweating Profusely
[32:30] Yeah, so I went into V-fib. So my heart basically wasn't pumping blood to any organ.
It just shakes, was shaking kind of uncontrollably.
And so I went into cardiogenic shock, which, you know, I kind of sort of understand. I know what I was experiencing.
I was sweating profusely. My heart rate was still extremely elevated.
[33:04] And as I understand it, cardiogenic shock is something that is very, very serious.
Well, it's your heart isn't, your heart is not pumping. Your heart is wiggling, but it's not pumping.
And so then I went into cardiac arrest. So then my heart stopped.
So were you, are you awake or are you unconscious now? So I was awake up until cardiac arrest because then my heart stopped and I stopped breathing.
Wow. Yeah. And they, of course, you know, when they're prepping you for the procedure, you know, they put the, the, the, the, Electrodes.
Electrodes on your, on your chest in the event they have to, you know, shock your heart.
And so they ended up having to shock my heart, but it didn't go back into rhythm.
And so again, I'm without a pulse, I'm not breathing.
[34:04] Somebody's pumping your chest? Yeah, well, I- Anybody pumping you?
Not that I recall because I was, you know, I was unconscious.
What I came to find, what I came to learn the next day is that the doctor made, he probably had a minute and a half to two minutes to make a decision as to what to do, or else I wouldn't be here.
And so he ended up delivering a heart pump through a second catheter.
So they cut my left femoral artery and inserted a second catheter that was used to deliver a heart pump.
[34:46] My heart to get it and which basically took over from my heart and got my heart beating again.
Yeah, that heart pump was used for essentially the rest of the procedure. It was not withdrawn in first for several hours. Yeah, and you said that you said in your email to me that was called an impella? It's an impella heart pump, yes. And then also, you know, when all this is going on, do you know the time from when your heart went into ventricular tachycardia to when he had to put in the heart pump? Do you have any idea? I don't, I don't. You know, we were expecting this procedure to last, you know, an hour total from the time I got in to the time I got out.
You know, that was, doctors told me that, they told my wife that, who was in the waiting room.
So, you know, they got the first dent in, presumably very quickly. The reason that I was in there for nine hours is because of everything that happened and then recovering from, you know, all of the medical problems I was experiencing.
[36:05] And you, and you also mentioned that in addition to, you know, going into cardiac arrest, you also had flash pulmonary edema.
Right. Yeah, which is what?
Complications: Flash Pulmonary Edema and Kidney Damage
[36:17] My lungs started to fill with fluid.
[36:19] That's part of your congestive heart failure. Yeah. Okay. And then also you said that your kidneys took a massive beating as well, right?
Yes.
Why is that? from all the dye, all the contrast, and the low blood pressure. I'm going to have a question.
Did they end up pleased with the stent that went into the left anterior descending?
Yes, yes. They, at the end of the procedure, you know, they said, look, you had a rough go of it, but, you know, there shouldn't be any complications. There was no damage to your heart.
We don't really know why, what happened to you happened. It's the nurse said, you know, it's one in a million.
The physician assistant said, you know, I've been doing cardiology for 25 years.
This is only the second time this has ever happened.
And the other patient was considerably older and in poor health. health.
[37:22] So yeah, now, so now once the heart pump was delivered and took over from my heart, now I'm awake again.
I'm conscious. And I know that things are not going well because you hear, I heard, you know, get me this stat, this isn't working, bring so-and-so in here.
There were many, a lot of people coming and going in the lab.
[37:47] They were asking me questions. I, I came to find out later that was in, in order to confirm brain function.
Uh, cause obviously when I was, uh, after suffering cardiac arrest, all of my organs were deprived of oxygen and blood, um, including my brain.
So, yeah. Do you know how long was it over two minutes under two?
It was probably right around two minutes. The length of time it took him to cut my left femoral artery, put the catheter in and deliver the impella heart pump.
Wow. That was a pretty, pretty incredible move that he made there at the time.
Yeah, I, I'm obviously I'm very grateful for his quick decision making.
But, you know, there, I'm vomiting. I have, I, it's, it's weird. I had the, the, the wherewithal to, to do things during that procedure.
Again, once I came back, I knew that if I vomited while laying down, that I could aspirate.
So I was picking my head up and turning it to puke. I was coughing constantly just because of, I guess, all of the meds, the fluid on my lungs. They had to cut my gown off me because my low blood pressure and how much I was sweating.
[39:16] I also was very concerned about my wife in the waiting room, because again, I knew I was going to die in that lab.
I just knew it. I kept sending one of the technicians out. I said, you need to give my wife an update.
Because again, she was expecting an hour. Mike, did you, was there a...
The conversation you had before the procedure, was there a discussion of complications that can occur with stenting?
No, no.
Well, there are some well-known figures. 1% of people can die, and 4% can have a heart attack.
Stent Risks: 120,000 Deaths Over a Decade
[40:03] For example, if you have a country as 1.2 million stents per year.
[40:13] That means that 12,000 people will die. And I think that's information that patients should have.
4% of the 1.2 million will have a heart attack.
So that's four times 12, that's another 48,000.
And if you take that over a decade, then it's 10 times 12,000.
That 120,000 people will die getting a stent. That's acceptable, that's the data that's known.
I think that has to be shared.
Well, also, what percent of stents fail within a year and a half, two years?
Well, first of all, I think that they were, it sounds like they were very astute and very brilliant with what they did to make a wonderful resolution, of the complications that you had, and I think they could be congratulated for that.
But one of the basic problems is when I'm doing my practice, my most frequent phone call that I get, Dr. Esselstyn, I've been told I have to have bypass, or stents, I don't wanna have it, what can I do?
And the interesting thing is when these are offered electively, these patients really, if they're carefully studied, there's no reason for them to have to have a procedure, which has the potential of this kind of complication, especially if they have no symptoms.
We have a saying in medicine, it is difficult to make the asymptomatic patient feel better.
[41:39] Yeah.
[41:43] Yeah. Hear, hear.
There we go. So, thank you very much.
It back. So you're on the table. Yes. And you know, they've, they've inserted the, the heart pump. And then you had, complications when they tried to basically, basically put in an incision, right?
So what happened was, they got, they got the second stent in, my heart got back into rhythm, they were pleased with the placement of the second stent. And so they withdrew the catheter that, you know, carried the heart pump to my heart. They kept me alive during the procedure.
When they took the catheter out, they could not suture the incision and they couldn't get it to stop bleeding any other way than manual compression. So So they had to apply manual compression for two and a half hours.
And you're in you're awake for that. I'm awake for that.
And yeah, you know, that was the most that was not the, the the closest I came to not, being here.
But that was the most painful.
Painful experience during manual compression, closest to not being here.
[43:08] I mean, the other stuff that was happening to me, clearly some of some, I mean, it was all uncomfortable. But in terms of like sheer pain, having a grown man on top of me, you know, with all of his weight, pressing down on the incision. And of course, they had to take turns, because, you know, not one surgeon can apply compression for two and a half hours like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani Wow.
Dr. Jim Kross So they were tag-teaming it, but they were literally on top of me.
And I was, I remember wailing and in pain, I mean, it, it hurt. It hurt a lot.
They finally got it to clot. And then that was when, you know, he told me that I was, I was going to obviously be staying overnight.
Before you had the procedure when you were in the discussion and they discussed the options of either waiting for a number of months until you became symptomatic, was there ever any discussion about while you were waiting these six months you could treat the causation of a disease.
[44:16] Based nutrition? None. Not one single word about that. Well, yes, but that information has been, actually forthcoming now for well over 30 years. Yeah. But you're not surprised that he didn't get that information, correct? I mean, that seems to be kind of, unfortunately, the status quo these days.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's unfortunate. Yeah. No, I, and so, you know, my wife and I have had this discussion a number of times, like knowing what I know now, would I have made the same decision when that doctor posed those two options to me, wait until you're symptomatic or, or an angiogram, I would have, I would, have definitely waited, and I would have educated myself on the role that a whole food plant-based diet can play, not only stemming coronary artery disease, but reversing it.
I want to alert you to a couple of things, one, what have they told you about the status of the stents going forward?
Haven't really they haven't really said anything other than when I've asked questions like so.
[45:35] Um you're you you are happy with the placement of the stents you're happy with you know how they're, how they were performing I guess um and the answer to those questions has always been yes and again no damage to your heart you should be just fine there's no reason why you shouldn't continue to to live a long, healthy life.
[45:57] Yeah, but there's more data. 1% of stents will fail in a year.
40% of stents within 20 years encounter problems. Yeah.
So that's all right, they're gonna keep an eye on this. I'll tell you a situation that I not infrequently encounter.
Some patients experience stent failure after a few years.
[46:19] Is once we've had a patient has come to us after they've had the stent, they say they've had one stent in the left anterior descending.
And they're fine for two years or three years and then they begin to get chest pain again.
And sure enough, they wanna say, they wanna say, well, that plant-based diet isn't working.
Well, the interesting thing is that when you get a repeat angiogram, you know if the patient has been following it correctly, this can't be the case, but what happens is, the stent has failed, the stent has gone down and it's given the mangina, and how do we know this?
You look at the other blockages at the time of the original procedure that were not significant enough to warrant having a stent.
They, now it's been three years of eating this way, they will have gotten shrink, they will have shrunken.
They've reversed, while at the same time, the stent being a foreign body, and initiating what we call neo-intimal hyperplasia has begun.
[47:25] So because I have the stent in my LAD down the road, if that stent, if I should encounter problems with the stent and they suggest to me that they need to go back in, there is no other option other than re-stenting? I mean, is the way that I'm eating now... Will not protect the stent. Will not protect the stent.
Because the stent is, the coronary artery was not designed to live side by side with a bare metal stent.
[48:04] And some of these, well, most by the end of 20 years have had a reaction.
However, this, the majority of these patients are absolutely, you're gonna do fine.
You're gonna have somebody keep an eye on this. This isn't usually ever gonna close suddenly.
As it closes slowly, you might begin to get some symptoms. That's all.
And then when that happens, they sometimes can go in and actually, believe it or not, put another stent inside that to correct the problem.
So can we, Mike, thanks for your patience with this conversation on stents, and I hope it's not making you too uncomfortable, but the reality is, right, people are getting stents every day. It's the people.
But wasn't there some pretty powerful research that came out of the Lancet, I wanna say five years ago, where they took a group of people and they gave them stents.
Other ones, they didn't, but they didn't know what group they were in.
And it basically showed that there was almost no difference.
That's the Orbiter trial.
Yeah. Right. And so what's your takeaway from that trial?
The trial clearly indicated that in those particular patients, there was no benefit to stents.
Well then.
Stents as a life-saving measure during heart attacks
[49:17] And so, in your opinion, when is there a benefit to get stented?
Oh, there's no question, when somebody's in the middle of a heart attack, a stent can be absolutely life-saving.
No question.
No question. So, but other... But I think that Mike has got either a cardiologist, in Indiana or one in Florida, Yeah.
Who's gonna be able to, and his symptoms and so forth will be the guide as to how this is all proceeding. Yeah.
Mike, let me ask you this. How has this whole experience that you had, how did this change your life?
[50:00] Wow, I think about that a lot. I feel blessed and fortunate to be here.
You know, the first thing that I wanted to do after, you know, recovering in the, in ICU was speak to each of my children, because again, in the moment, I, I just knew in that lab that I was, I was a goner.
I just had this sense with, again, being conscious and everything going on and hearing all the chaos that, that, you know, it wasn't going to end well.
So clearly, it's made me feel better.
More aware of how fragile life is, for sure. And it makes me more conscientious about how I spend time and who I spend time with.
And it's awakened me, frankly, to the power of nutrition and and the medicine, frankly, of nutrition and eating right.
[51:12] I'm frankly amazed at the results that I've already seen in a few short months of being on the diet.
Yeah, so what have been some of the results that you've seen in three months, three plus months?
Well, I can compare where I was in November when I left Fountain Life with the diagnosis.
My cholesterol, total cholesterol then was 234. I just had it tested a month ago and it's 108.
Is that, are those apples to apples as far as statins or no statins?
And- So, and I was, when I went to Fountain Life, I was on a statin.
I was on no meds. I wasn't taking any medication for anything.
So I am on a statin. I'm on a 20 milligrams of rosuvastatin.
So, the November reading was before a statin, and that was, again, 233.
Now 108 and my LDL back in November was 135 and it is now 31.
Considering the role of statins in cholesterol management
[52:22] Is there a role the statin is playing? I would say yes.
However, my LDL has dropped 20 points just since I've been on the diet.
[52:37] I'm very curious to have a conversation with my doctor, and that conversation is coming where I ask him to take me off the statin.
Because, you know, with an LDL now of 31, even if the statin is doing something.
[52:56] The way that I'm eating, and I have not deviated from the diet one bit.
I traveled, I traveled with food.
I ate a cold baked potato yesterday on the drive from Indiana to Lakewood, but we didn't really want to stop it.
I prep meals now, you know, I make sure that I'm not caught in a situation where I don't have something on the ready.
So- Mike, did we have a chance to, did we speak long enough that I tried to enlighten you about the importance of the endothelial cell? Oh, yes.
And nitroglycide? Yeah, and while I, before I forget it, while hindsight here in this very.
[53:40] Thought-provoking situation that you've presented us, While hindsight is 20-20, I do think it's important.
Those guys that even though they got into an absolutely horrific complication that they had the will, the grit, and the determination to, and the know-how to get you out of that situation.
[54:03] But from here on, I really hope that you'll do what you're doing, take the whole plant-based nutrition seriously because, and also, if there's ways, You know, we have to question the fact that the American Heart Association was formed in 1924.
Even back then, we knew that there were multiple cultures on the planet Earth where cardiovascular disease was virtually non-existent.
And since then, there have been a number of what I call skillful colleagues and friends who have taken the route that I have to try to do research on the benefits of plant-based nutrition.
And it's all out there and it's published in the scientific literature.
And I'm very disappointed that physicians like the ones that treated you had never even brought that up to you.
I mean, it's really almost unforgivable, not to give the patient the opportunity to absolutely vanquish their disease without any complications and without any significant expense.
The only time it came up was after when they suggested that cardiac rehab might be a good option for me.
And so I asked, well, what's cardiac rehab? and they describe the program.
One part of the program is following the Dean Ornish diet.
[55:24] And which as you both well know is essentially the exact diet that Dr. Esselstyn has been recommending for years. So, bye-bye.
When they brought it up, they brought it up with almost a derisive tone, like people don't eat like that.
You can't eat like that for a long time. It's just, those are always the people in a big hotel, like banquet room or conference room, when we're presenting to a large group.
And they're always shivering in the back because they're so cold, because apparently they're not getting enough nutrients or enough fat.
I don't know. I mean, it was definitely not, hey, you should really consider doing this.
It was like, well, it's part of the cardiac rehab program, so you might wanna do it. Right.
So, who referred you then to this guy here? Yeah.
Seeking guidance from Dr. Esselstyn and embracing plant-based nutrition
[56:23] You went to his seminar, I think it was March 10th. Yeah, so what happened was.
[56:30] Given the experience that I had, I had just so many questions, And I had the occasion of talking to my wife's brother, who knew of an individual, a friend of his back from high school actually, that ended up having bypass surgery in his 40s.
And he knew of Dr. Esselstyn and had a consult with him, and undoubtedly been to one of his webinars. So it was really through my brother-in-law's friend.
And interestingly, I said, well, how do I contact this Dr. Esselstyn?
And so I got the email, and I emailed, and Jackie answered and said, we've got a program coming up.
I had my consult. Dr. Esselstyn and I talked for probably an hour.
And then some days later, I was in the webinar on the 10th.
And so did everything you hear just kind of make sense?
The book yet? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I read Dean's book too. I read Dean Ornish's book as well.
[57:42] Yeah, it clicked. You know, when Dr. Esselstyn describes the endothelium and, you know, what happens to the endothelium over time and how to restore the endothelium and how it, you know, it's a natural dilator of blood vessels. And, you know, you eat these, all these leafy greens that ultimately build the endothelium. I mean, it made perfect sense.
And so, I have been proselytizing to anybody and everybody who will listen to me.
[58:21] About, because they're, you know, they're like, oh my gosh, you're feeling well, you look great, like, but there's always a little bit of, so now your labs are so good, you're gonna still be on on that diet? And I said, Of course, of course, I am. That's the reason the labs are so good. That's the reason that I'm feeling so good and, and, and feeling so healthy. And I've heard you rip on a number of podcasts, talk to individuals, following the diet. And they all say, you know, they all sort of face a lot of the same skepticism about eating, you know, twigs and grass and this and that. And, and I will echo everything that they've said on your web. This food is exceptionally flavorful. It is so good.
I mean, it's, it, I haven't gotten sick of, of anything. And I, I eat, I have, um, most of our meals, I use recipes from, um, Ann or Jane, uh, from the, the cookbook.
I've also bought full of cookbooks written from various authors that you've had on your podcasts.
And I was never a chef, I was never in the kitchen.
Taking charge of meal preparation and embracing a new role
[59:31] And now, I prepare every meal for myself, my wife, and any family members who are home.
So you've kicked your wife out of the role of basically being the head chef in the house.
Yeah, and she's extremely supportive, we're doing it together.
I mean, she has her occasional treat.
[59:56] Usually something sweet. But yeah, when you live together, you prepare meals and you eat essentially the same.
And she's been extremely supportive and has really enjoyed the food as well.
Are you in Ohio right now?
Right now I'm in Lakewood, yes. Very good.
Yeah. Hey, how shaken to the core was your wife waiting in the waiting room?
Because you said it was gonna be about an hour. It's nine hours.
Is she just, is she getting reports of what's going on?
Well, I'm sending the technicians out, but they're not really telling her exactly what's going on.
They're telling her that I'm having a tough go of it and that I'm fighting, things are going okay.
[1:00:46] And I understand that. They're not gonna say, oh, geez, it's really nip and tuck in there.
I'm not sure he's gonna make it.
So they were telling her a little bit, but she's a smart woman, she knew.
And the second to the last report, the doctor's head nurse came out and she took a look at him and he was obviously stressed.
And she said, before you say anything, you need to sit down because I have to sit down.
And then she talked to the doctor at the end of it, and the doctor's like, he's like, Alan, he said, there's not a lot of people that could have fought through what he fought through.
He said, yes, we did what we had to do, but your husband is incredibly strong.
Strong. He, you know, physically, he was very strong, but, you know, for him to be awake.
[1:01:41] During, you know, the majority of that procedure, he said, you know, he, he did did more than his share to get him through.
And she's...
That doesn't surprise me at all because he's a very willful man and he does not like to know.
He does not like to miss anything. So the fact that he remained conscious is a testament to his strong desire to be in the know. Tell me about Mike.
How is your renal, your kidney function? All good.
They, they returned to whatever level of performance, the creatinine. Yes.
It was all good weeks later and really the only restrictions that I had post procedure were, I developed a pseudo aneurysm because of the, the, where they had to go in through my left arm artery.
I developed a blood clot there that was some leakage in 1 of my blood vessels that they thought was small enough that would cloud on its own.
And it did, it just took a couple weeks.
So I wasn't able to go to the gym or anything like that for a couple of weeks, but it had nothing to do with my heart.
It had everything to do with that healing.
[1:02:59] Hey, Mike, can you share with our audience, what have you eaten so far today?
Cause it's probably about five, six o'clock at your time right now.
Mike's Daily Meals and Exercise Routine
[1:03:09] Yeah. So I told you that we traveled with food. So this morning, I got up and I made the same breakfast I have almost every morning.
It was oatmeal and with fruit and I was using fresh fruit. Now I think it's actually even tastier to microwave frozen fruit berries and put it on.
I started with banana. and with the fruit and also your granola rip, the berry flavored granola on top of the oatmeal. I had that every morning.
And then that got me.
I was feeling satiated all the way until about two o'clock, and that was after my wife and I walked about five miles and I did a strength circuit in the backyard here at my daughter's house.
About two o'clock I came in and I warmed up one of those baked potatoes that I brought and put some salsa on it, and that was lunch.
Her kitchen is not, and her cupboards are not stocked with whole food plant-based options currently, but we're gonna go shopping tomorrow because we're here until next Thursday.
Nice, what are your plans for dinner tonight?
[1:04:27] I'm probably going to make one of the Esselstyn's favorites, as I understand, just black beans and brown rice and with lots of veggies.
Hey. So I'll dice up some peppers and some jicama and I'll have some spinach, some, probably some jalapenos.
[1:04:54] Oh yeah, that sounds great. How absolutely proud are you of what Mike has done in the last three months?
Well, I think it shows that, listen, if anybody like had gone through what Mike has gone through, who has a brain in their head, He doesn't ever want to do this again or have it experienced, but the physics of it is...
Thing to know is that it is so ridiculously simple.
[1:05:27] Safe, and inexpensive to absolutely annihilate the leading killer of women and men in Western civilization, which is cardiac disease.
And we have got to somehow emerge from the dark ages of treating it with drugs, stents, and bypasses, which have absolutely not one single solitary thing whatsoever to do with the causation of the illness.
And those cardiologists and cardiovascular people really have got to tumble to the idea that what we're doing is absolutely fallaciously wrong.
And we ought to offer every patient the opportunity of a treatment that is going to absolutely kill this disease.
Advocating for a New Approach to Cardiac Disease Treatment
[1:06:15] You know, I was just on a panel, Mike, about a week ago in New York City with Dr. Neil Barnard, Dr. Rob Osfeld with Montefiore Hospital.
He's a cardiologist there. Dr. Michelle McMacken. And you know, the mayor there now is Eric Adams.
Eric Adams, yeah. Fervent, fervent advocate of whole food plant-based nutrition.
He actually came to see my father and basically credits him with the information, that helped him to reverse his type 2 diabetes.
But in all the New York City hospitals now, the first default meal that you get after a procedure.
[1:06:57] Is whole food plant-based. That's pretty darn cool. And if you want to have something that's animal-based or something like that, it's the third, the third option. The second is, again, plant-based. So the first is whole food plant-based, the second is whole food plant-based, and then if you're like, I can't do that, then the third down the rung of the ladders is some sort of an animal-based. Do you know what was on the menu for me in ICU?
In a cheeseburger with bacon. I have no idea. Again, this was, I was a pescatarian at the time.
So I had a ready-made excuse to turn away the tray, but it was beef Manhattan.
So I'm a heart patient, okay? I just experienced what I described to you guys.
I'm in ICU and they serve me beef Manhattan. You know what that is?
A slice of white bread with some sort of beef and all this gravy on top.
I mean, you can't make this stuff up. that's what they're serving a heart patient in ICU.
And as you, you probably ate it, right?
No, I turned it away. And I, I turned, yeah, I turned it away and I say, and I, and again, I was not whole food plant-based at the time, but I was a pescetarian.
I said, I'm, I'm pescetarian, I don't eat this.
[1:08:13] They were nice enough to bring me salmon, but the default option was beef Manhattan was, I mean, mind blowing.
Yeah, yeah, incredible. Well, Mike, if I'm not mistaken, I'm gonna see you in a couple months in Sedona, Arizona.
You and your wife, right? My wife and I are both gonna be there.
We're very much looking forward to it.
So am I, so am I. It's gonna be incredible. You're gonna have to tell his story.
Oh, well, yes, yes, I'm sure.
A lot of people will have probably listened to the podcast, but yes, you'll, if you're game for it, I'd love for you to share your story there as well.
Mike, this has been absolutely incredible. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you sharing your story, this, you know, this very cautionary tale with us being so open.
With everything that you went through and how it's changed your life.
Because I think there's a lot of people out there listening that will have a lot of great takeaways from this conversation that we've had.
Appreciation for Mike's Story and Desire to Help Others
[1:09:13] It's been my honor and privilege. I thank you both for all the work that you're doing. Yeah, thank you.
Any closing words from you, Essie? Just absolutely congratulations to your willingness.
[1:09:28] To really try to educate.
Other people so they can avoid the path that you had to follow.
Yeah, and that's to your earlier question, Rip, about how it's changed me.
I really would like to figure out a way that I can help affect the change and really spread the word to get people to embrace a healthier way of living that will spare them from, not only from the kind of thing that happened to me, which, you know, let's chalk that up to a fluke, but there are so many people that are living in such unhealthy ways by what they're eating.
And it's just a ticking time bomb for many. And so to the extent that I could get a platform and tell a story and help convert some folks to a whole food plant-based diet and embrace their health in the process, I'd love to do that.
Remember, it is difficult to make the asymptomatic patient feel better.
We shall. We shall. Hey Mike, this has been terrific and enjoy your time in Lakewood with your daughter and I'll see you in a couple months, my plantstrong brother. Give me a little plantstrong bump up a little higher, up a little higher. There you go. Boom. Hey, and thank you to this guy for joining in. All right, Mike. Bye bye. Bye bye.
Thanks!
[1:10:55] To Mike for recounting that incredible day, and thanks to my father for providing some incredibly useful color commentary, guidance, and wisdom. I know that it was Mike who wrote a thank you, letter to us, but I really want to thank Mike for embracing this plantstrong lifestyle and sharing his story the way he did with us today.
The biggest endorsement of this plantstrong lifestyle is putting it into action and watching, it work and Mike has done exactly that.
[1:11:38] And if any of you are figuring out how to put this lifestyle into action, I would encourage, you to join us at our Sedona Immersion in October and you can not only meet myself and Dr. Clapper, and Doug Lyle and Adam Sud, my sister Jane and a slew of other people, but you can also meet, Mike Melloh and his incredible wife. So to all of you, thanks so much for listening and always, Please, always keep it PlantStrong.
Support and Appreciation for Listeners
[1:12:16] Thank you for listening to the PlantStrong podcast. You can support the show by taking a quick minute to follow us wherever you listen to, your favorite podcasts.
Leaving us a positive review and sharing the show with your network is another great way to help us reach as many people as possible with the exciting news about plants.
Thank you in advance for your support. It means everything.
The PlantStrong Podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Amy Mackey, Patrick, Gavin, and Wade Clark.
This season is dedicated to all of those courageous truth seekers who weren't afraid to look, through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth.
Most notably, my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr. and Anne Crile Esselstyn.
Thanks for listening.
