#83: The Happy Pear - Mastering the Art of Play...and Plants!
Today, we welcome and invite you into the magical and whimsical world of The Happy Pear, David and Stephen Flynn.
For the past 16-years, these Irish twin brothers have been on an exploration of health, vitality, and happiness and we guarantee it's a journey you'll want to join when you hear them speak.
We talked about how these two former tough-guy meat lovin’ rugby players transformed into plantstong powerhouses. We talk yoga, handstands, meditation, cooking, building community, spreading joy...and so much more. They've been making waves in the plant-based world and jumping in them with their daily sunrise swims. That's how I knew we'd get along so well. I’ve been wanting to talk to these lads for a while now and I hope you love the conversation as much as I did because, when you interview the Happy Pear, you just kick back and let them go!
Episode and PLANTSTRONG Resources:
Enjoy our New Limited Edition PLANTSTRONG Spring Culinary Experience boxes! This is the second in a series of at-home cooking classes in partnership with our friends at The Chef’s Garden, a regenerative farm near the shores of Lake Erie. You can sign up today and then make a date with mom - or with anyone who will appreciate this fun activity - to come together to make a four course spring dinner that is out of sight. Boxes will begin to ship on May 17th and they include premium hand-picked produce, a full library of videos, and beautiful printed recipe cards. Visit plantstrong.com/garden today for more details.
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Links to episode music:
The Happy Pear started out back in 2004 with Steve, Dave, a tiny shop, and a dream of helping people to eat more veg!
Fast forward 15 years, The Happy Pear now consists of 4 cafes, 40 products, 6 online courses, 4 cookbooks, a farm, a roastery, hundreds of amazing employees, and a community of over 1 million people living healthier!
All that said, the mission is still the same, to help everyone to get healthier and be happier!
Full Transcript
The Happy Pear:
But there's now more and more research saying the importance of the small talk in the sense of that social integration is so important for our longevity. It's one of the most important factors they found, that as well as close relationships. So I think, acting, I think especially during our disconnected world right now, I think the importance of saying hello and how are you? Just lovely day, isn't it? Those little chats are so part of the human experience and part of the sense of tribe and the collective which we all crave to be a part of.
Rip Esselstyn:
Season three of the Plant Strong podcast explores those Galileo moments where you seek to understand the real truth around your health, and dare to see the world through a different lens. This season, we honor those courageous seekers who are paving the way for you and me. So grab your telescope, point it towards your future, and let's get plant strong together. Hi, I'm Rip Esselstyn, and I want to welcome you to the Plan Strong podcast. Today, I am incredibly excited to be your tour guide into the magical and enchanting world of the Happy Pear, David and Steven Flynn. For over 16 years, these Irish twin brothers have been making waves in the plant based world and jumping into them with their daily sunrise ocean swims, which, as you'll hear today, is one of their daily must dos for energy, creativity and vitality. This is why I knew we'd get along so well, because as I'm sure you know, my daily swims are also one of my keys to success.
Rip Esselstyn:
We talked about how these two former tough guy, meat loving rugby players, transformed into plant strong powerhouses. We talk yoga, handstands, meditation, cooking and building community, spreading joy, and a lot, lot more. I've been wanting to talk to these ladies for a while now. And I hope you love the conversation as much as I did. Because, when you interview the Happy Pear, you just kick back and let them go. Well, let's go with Stephen and David Flynn, the Happy Pear. All right, here we are the Plant Strong podcast. I have got David and Steven Flynn. I've been wanting to have you guys on the podcast for a long, long time. But now is the time and, in season three of the podcast guys, we're really kind of focusing in on a lot of the trailblazers in the plant based movement that are kind of paving the way for a lot of other people.
Rip Esselstyn:
And at some point, you guys had a Galileo moment where you decided that there was something about plants that really resonated with you. And it's informed your life's journey and passion. So, I want to talk about all that. But first, I want you guys to know, I don't know, I mean, outside of yes, my sister came and visited you guys like two years ago with her family. And I know you guys have written a bunch of books. And you've got, a bakery, and you guys are doing all this cool stuff. But I don't know too much more about you guys. So I want to dive in, so just know I may be asking you questions that you've answered a jillion times, but for me it's the first time I've heard these answers, okay? So, let's start I want to start just with the basics. So you guys call yourselves the Happy Pear, right? The Happy Pear. So why the Happy Pear? I love the name, but I'm intrigued with it.
The Happy Pear:
So I'm going to go back. I'm going to take it even back before that. So we're identical twins Dave and Steve, we're both 41 now. But we grew up in a small little town in Ireland, which is called Greystones, and we grew up as a family of four boys. And being identical twins, from an all-boys family, we were hyper competitive. You were just competing for dinner, competing for clothes, competing for attention. And then that was kind of the schooling kind of thing. We were overachievers as being identical twins, we were ... by the time we started college we were playing semi pro, rugby we were playing ... I was playing scratch and golf. We were doing modeling, we were studying business, we were overachievers in loads of things.
The Happy Pear:
And we were eating the standard diet, meat and two veg, loads of proteins, we were jocks. We used to wear Ralph Lauren shirts and we'd short hair back insides and that was our definition or identity back then, and we've never really questioned what we eat and how it affected us, food was just fuel. It was something you just ate. And being Irish, when you went out to socialized, you drank a lot of beer. And that was that, great. And then age 21, I remember I just finished university and, we had ...
Rip Esselstyn:
Time out, time out. So stop just for a sec. So before you go into the 21 and that journey I want to know, tell me a little bit about your other brothers and your mom and your dad. Was this a happy family you guys grew up in?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah. Yeah.
The Happy Pear:
It was like The Brady Bunch.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah all of us four brothers, we were a pack. Our mother was there, she was the sergeant general of for boys like she's a strong, dominant Irish mother that would like-
The Happy Pear:
Loving.
The Happy Pear:
A loving but she's just, she's powerful. She was the pack leader.
Rip Esselstyn:
And were you guys the oldest? Or were where do you guys-
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, we're the eldest. I'm 15 minutes old and Dave and then Mark's two and a half years younger, and then Dara's two and a half years younger. So, four boys, very sporty, mom would kind of see us like a pack of dogs, just get you out to chase a ball all day long and just burn off that energy. So we were very sporty, very happy home, and-
Rip Esselstyn:
And what did your father do for work?
The Happy Pear:
He was an engineer. So he worked and mom was a teacher. But when the four boys came along, she had to give up that and focus on feeding the boys and all that kind of stuff so. So that was that-
The Happy Pear:
And then grown up in a small little town it was lovely. Everyone knew everyone, it was nice and small, and very wholesome little time.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Now you guys, obviously identical twins, I remember Jane telling me the way you can tell them part, the easiest way is David's got a little extra flick of hair right there.
The Happy Pear:
Hey She's good. Good detail. Yeah Dave has a dynamic hair hairline, Steve has a straight hairline.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Now Is it true, because I heard somewhere recently that one of you is right handed and one of you is left handed. Is that true or false?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, yeah. You are mirror twins. So I'm right handed, he's left handed. I'm right footed, he's left footed. I'm right brained, he's left brained [laughter].
The Happy Pear:
It was funny though back about five years, is it five years ago? We were probably involved in a study in University College Dublin, where they were comparing the lifestyle factors of identical twins versus non-identical twins. And remember-
The Happy Pear:
On metabolic rate, on their metabolic rate. And-
The Happy Pear:
And they brought us in and they put us in a bod pod and all this type of stuff. But I remember they did a zygote test to measure were we actually identical or fraternal twins. And I remember, we lived our whole life as identical twins. Remember that moment was like, oh my God, I'm going to have an existential crisis if I'm not an identical twin. And it turned out of the 90 sets of twins, we were the most identical, we were mirror twins. So we won. We won.
Rip Esselstyn:
So let's get back before I interrupted you.
The Happy Pear:
Okay, so we've reached 21, happy upbringing, we were doing what we were meant to do. Society said you needed to be good at sport, as a man, you needed to be good at trying to chat up girls, you need to be able to drink loads of pint and eat loads of burgers. And we did all that. We did all that. And we studied business, and we're doing all the things you were meant to do and we still felt a certain emptiness inside of ourselves. So at 21, this is 21 years ago, Steve said to me one Christmas, he said-
Rip Esselstyn:
Wait, time out again. I got to keep interrupting because-
The Happy Pear:
Yeah go ahead.
Rip Esselstyn:
So when you say you felt a certain emptiness, was that something you both felt? And do you look at each other and go, man, I feel like something's missing? Or how did that present itself?
The Happy Pear:
It was a deeper sense. I think it was more a curiosity and a deeper sense that there must be more than money makes you happy or, you meet a pretty girl and that makes you happy, or whatever it was. There must be more than what society has been telling us makes us happy. That was really the crux of it.
The Happy Pear:
This kind of American dream that we were being sold over here in Ireland, it just felt like there's got to be more to life-
The Happy Pear:
It seemed a bit verniery, there must be more substance. So Steve one Christmas he says, "Dave, Dave, I don't buy this anymore." He said, "I don't feel happy. I'm going away, I'm getting a one way ticket. I'm going to Canada, you're not coming with me. And I'm not coming back, I'm not coming back until I know what I'm into and I'm happy."
Rip Esselstyn:
Wait, wait, wait. Now, so Steven, you're like, "Okay, I'm going to Canada by myself." What's the longest period of time that you two had been apart before that?
The Happy Pear:
When we were 16 we went to boarding school in France for three months. So that was the longest time. And outside of that it might have been a night. It probably wouldn't even been a night.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. So it was a big-
The Happy Pear:
And it was, like we shared a wardrobe up until we were 30 really. So it was literally first up, best dressed.
Rip Esselstyn:
And so how hard was that when you guys were away from each other for three months? Was it a nice experiment or was it painful?
The Happy Pear:
I think it was something that was needed. You know the way sometimes you got to prune the apple tree in spring so that it fruits more, more better? That sounds weird. But, as in we kind of felt like we'd never really learned how to be individuals and we needed to. All our life we were called Flynn twin or often you're referred as which one are you? Or, Steve, Dave? So it was like, maybe let's go and learn what it's like to be able to stand on our own two feet and just be an individual.
The Happy Pear:
But at 16 that was really just dipping our toe in the water. It wasn't until 21 where Steve went away separately and we both had to forge, go, who the hell am I when I'm not a twin? Quite an identity crisis in a sense. And we left to carry on and that we left, like Steve went to Canada, to Vancouver and he went to be a snowboard instructor, and I went to South Africa to go be a golf pro. So this is 20 years ago. And as we said, we left us jocks. We were pint swimming, burger munching, rugby playing, woman chasing jocks, we really were.
Rip Esselstyn:
But I've seen photos of you guys back when you were like 20, 21, you didn't look that shredded. Today you guys look like you're buff. Now you look like the rugby players. Back then you looked like little scrawny nerds.
The Happy Pear:
No, no, no, no, back then ... No, that was one photo. But no, back then we were. Maybe that was a photo optical illusion. Back then we did have big, thick necks and we were rugby players. You wouldn't have mistaken us for any mouse anyway.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay, okay, okay.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, we didn't have that delicacy.
The Happy Pear:
No.
The Happy Pear:
We were rough.
The Happy Pear:
We're primates. And we ended up, it was the first time on a side of our own social conditioning if you get it, and both of us kind of wanted to go, who am I outside of my own surroundings? Who am I? And it was like, why do I just drink beer? Why do I eat meat? All these things you had to kind of these questions. So both of us independently, acted like this was pre social media and I think we had Hotmail accounts-
The Happy Pear:
Which you checked once a week.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, on an internet cafe. And we both independently became vegetarian, and then became vegan, very quickly after leaving at 21. And then that kind of catalyzed this journey of going, exploring food and seeing how far we could push it. Like if we-
The Happy Pear:
And exploring the different ways of life and to see what made sense to us. I remember tree planting in northern ... I'd come from living in Whistler as a snowboard instructor to tree planting in northern Canada living with a group of Christians, to go into Burning Man, to go and live in a polyamorous community, to go into meditation centers, to hitchhiking all the way across America, just to try to see the different ways people were living and to see what felt most congruent with me. But it was very interesting just to see-
The Happy Pear:
I guess we went from there. We went from there, as he said, we left as jocks and then one day, two years later, I had traveled , we'd both been hitch and living and kind of out of a bag for a couple years. And then one day, and we'd become vegan at this stage, and we'd both given up alcohol, and we were deep into meditation. And we had long hairs and beards, and strong offensive body odors. And Steve calls me up one day and he says, "Dave, Dave get up, I got this idea. Do you want to start this food revolution?" And these are the words that he used I'm like, "Steve, yeah, let's do it." And I think it's going to be some cool marches, yeah, we're going to lead the rebellion Steve, yeah.
The Happy Pear:
And he says that, "Do you want to start a vegetable shop Dave?" Vegetable shop, I don't get you Steve. And he said, "Trust me. Trust me on this one." And we came home. So we came home as two 24 year olds that were now these Tilton hippies, quintessential hippies, and we were starting a vegetable shop and we had a little red farm. And we were in a small town so people thought we totally lost our way.
The Happy Pear:
And we kind of, I had this, I guess, burning desire within me to try to create a food revolution, I called it. And it was a sense of just trying to, I guess we'd seen how diet had been a touch point in so much of our lives, and it really helped catalyze so much positive change in our lives that we wanted to try to inspire others to do that. And I was adamant I'd come from having a degree and a master's in business, so very much bought into the money thing, to suddenly throwing it all out the window and I wanted to start a charity because, this wasn't about money, this was about the revolution.
The Happy Pear:
And right from the start, we were going. We used to go to local schools and to try to make ... If Coca Cola could be sexy, why couldn't bananas, and melons and cucumbers and beautiful fruits? We used to go into schools and make smoothies and really just get try to get a ripple going. And, we called it the Happy Pear, back to your original question, because there was two of us and we'd started a food shop and we were selling pears. So it was literally a vegetable shop. And at the time I remember, this was in 2004, so in a small town in Ireland. And we started a vegetable shop and a cafe next door, which was a vegan cafe. And yeah, I remember at the time people kind of go, "They must be selling drugs out of the back."
The Happy Pear:
It was that kind of attitude where people thought we lost our way. And here were these two young lads that were going places and they were a pair of strange hippies that were selling vegetables.
The Happy Pear:
And they were living quite differently. Because Greystones, when we first setup shop, was quite a conservative little town. It was quite ... We were kind of sticking our neck out there having a degree, or a master's in business and to be driving a van stinking of catfish was kind of, they didn't go hand in hand.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah we were meant to be wearing suits and going and working in-
The Happy Pear:
Wearing cufflinks.
The Happy Pear:
... Dublin. And job being stockbrokers or something. That would have been more normal. So when we started it was kind of going against the grain.
Rip Esselstyn:
And what did your family think? What did your mom and your dad, and your two brothers think of what you guys were doing? Were they supportive?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah.
The Happy Pear:
Mom and Dad were hugely supportive. I guess they kind of realized that we were probably reasonably unemployable because we were so much our own thinkers. And I kind of had this strong desire that I wanted to use business as a vehicle for social change. And thankfully mom and dad knew we needed to do something really physical, and something that we were in our bodies rather than just a laptop, in an office. So, they thought, great, go for it lads.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah they'd always instilled in us that they both worked for the man, as they called it, and they always wanted us to do our ... Chart our own course and do our own thing. So they always ... Mom used to, when we were 16, she helped us sell Christmas trees. We used to sell Christmas trees from the garden-
The Happy Pear:
I used to sell fake IDs in school.
The Happy Pear:
She didn't like that, but they were always encouraging side hustles with us.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, so your Instagram post today, you guys have an Instagram post today and it says, roughly it says, "Let go of other people's expectations and opinions, and follow the call of your own voice." This to me epitomizes that, and you guys were doing this 19, 20 years ago, it seems right? Following that inner voice that, getting there, that Stephen was like, "Dude, let's do it. Let's do this food revolution." So you started this, was it in Greystones? And is that where you are now? Where are you today? Same place.
The Happy Pear:
Exact same building we started in. And we went from, it went from me and Steve with a little fun and a little ... And we still opened a café. And then within 10 years it went to employing 200 people and turning over more than 10 million, and having food products all around Ireland and-
The Happy Pear:
Having four cafes.
The Happy Pear:
... Online courses and books, and it kind of exploded. Maybe it's 15 years because it was ...
Rip Esselstyn:
So can I ... Let's take a step back because I want to talk about the world of the Happy Pear, and how it started, and how it's grown, and where it is today. And, how many books do you have? And how many shops and bakeries, and employees? Because it is amazing what you guys have created.
The Happy Pear:
So thank you Rip, thanks a million. So it's kind of swelled from that one little café, we just kept following our nose. There was no business plan or no strategy never, we're very-
The Happy Pear:
And we kind of measured business success probably in the first 10 years, not by financial gain, but by vibe, by the atmosphere and the sense of momentum, the sense of-
The Happy Pear:
Integrity and authenticity within it in a sense. But it kind of moved on to where we started making products like pestos and humus's. We originally started a spread form where we started, our brother was doing triathletes for Ireland and he wanted to get the edge for-
The Happy Pear:
Triathlon.
The Happy Pear:
Oh triathlon.
The Happy Pear:
It wasn't triathlete.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah. So he was growing wheat grass and sprouts so, we kind of kept that going and we built a sprout farm when we started growing that. And then at one stage there was a really bad winter and he didn't have a crop or something so he started selling the pesto that Steve used to make and people loved the pesto, and then we started making more pesto and more humus's. And then started making granola.
The Happy Pear:
I think we had about 50 products, about 1000 stores around Ireland, some in Dubai and hopefully we have some in the UK next year. So it's-
The Happy Pear:
And they're all plant based, you know Whole Foods. Maybe not all of them are completely Whole Foods, but they're all very integral, clean decks, no nasties.
Rip Esselstyn:
You guys should hook up with Derek Sarno and get your stuff at Tesco and make sure that you got it everywhere. Maybe he can help you out. Maybe you got-
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, yeah but you know Derek's brilliant.
The Happy Pear:
He's doing great work in London.
The Happy Pear:
He's a great, he's a lovely, genuine, gorgeous man. Muscular man.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah I just had Derek ... You know Derek and I were on the same team at Whole Foods for probably five years. And then he went to go live over there in the UK and work with Tesco. And I just had him on the podcast about two weeks ago. So yeah, Derek's doing great.
The Happy Pear:
Small world. Yeah we've hung out with Derek a few times in London, I guess our circles are, you know? That's great.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Okay, so, now, did you say that you now have close to 200 people that are-
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, we did. We made I guess at one stage, and this is part of it, this kind of might be an interesting story. At some point, we got ... It's intoxicating when the business is growing, and everyone's telling you, "Oh, my God, how many cafes do you have? How many cooks? And you kind of get all these signals inside that growth is better, and bigger is better. So at one point, this is back maybe five years ago, we borrowed one and a half million and we were growing. We're going to open another five cafes, and we were going for it, bigtime.
The Happy Pear:
And we set up a central production facility, which we called Pearville. So, we could call it a factory, where we're going to produce a lot of the food to distribute to these five or 10 cafes which we had hoped. And we opened our third cafe in Dublin. And I found out we were kind of busier than ever, and I found out I wasn't swimming in the sea as much, I wasn't training as much. And this-
The Happy Pear:
It wasn't walking the kids to school. Our life had shifted and by a kind of chance circumstances, we ended up, a guy who I did me thesis on, this guy Charles Handy, this business philosopher. We'd just randomly, nothing being random, we bumped into him, he's 86. He invites us over to Cambridge where he's got a farm. He says, "Why don't you come over there when afternoon?" And we flew over with this 86 year old man, cooked us a lovely vegan lunch. And we had dinner with him in his study discussing what is success? What is meaning and why you doing what you're doing?
The Happy Pear:
And through this conversation, he kind of made us ... It became quite obvious that we were crazy growing, just going for growth for the sake of growth. And it reminded us that small is beautiful, and I guess we've slowly been coming back from 200. And COVID has fast tracked that obviously.
The Happy Pear:
So I guess the focus now is instead of exponential growth, it's how can we do what we do more beautiful and do it better and enjoy it more?
The Happy Pear:
Do more ... yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, you know what, and I hear you there, I can tell you just in my own world, trying to find the balance where, you can be present in everything you're doing, and you're not constantly thinking about the next thing. When you're with your wife, you're with your wife, when you're with your kids and your family, you're with them. When you're doing your business stuff, you're doing that. And it just doesn't get absolutely chaotic. And it sounds like, this trip to go visit this 86 or 87 year old was ... Turned out to be quite an epiphany. And that's a good thing.
The Happy Pear:
It kind of helped us really recalibrate now the business. We still, pre-COVID we had four cafes, one of them we've closed down. We find it easier now to focus on products and online courses. So, this is, and this is tying with your father. Back up about 10 years ago, we were doing ... We started at ... wasn't a trained chef but the first chef we hired, this is back about 16 years ago, the great Dorian Palmer. And there wasn't any kind of cordon vert schools, or any kind of plant based culinary skills you could go to. So, we decided we want to start a café, and we hired this lady Dorian Palmer. And Dorian, one of these magical ladies, she could have been 5200 or 25, age was totally-
The Happy Pear:
She grew, her feet were so rooted in the ground and birds used to land on her shoulders.
The Happy Pear:
This magical magical, wonderful lady that'd be teaching vegetarian, whole food cooking for about 30 years came and she was our chef. So when you're running your business, and the chef is the most well, or the best paid person, you quick, and they need holidays, you quickly realize I better learn how to cook.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah.
The Happy Pear:
And then when you run your own cafe, if you have poor food, you have no customers. So you quickly know how to cook and how to cook well. So we kind of did that for a number of years, and we used to do healthy talks and cooking demos upstairs in our cafe. 20 people have come along, and they'd have a good laugh. But then the next day you'd walk past the chip shop, and they'd be eating chips and burgers, and you'd walk past and they looked guilty. And you realized, this isn't working.
The Happy Pear:
And I think it was quite similar to your original experiment with the firefighters. I think with that, and Dean Ornish's work it was like, okay, will this work in Ireland? Does this actually work in Ireland? And this is 10 years ago. We did it upstairs above our vegetable shop and we had 20 people. We put up ... just like you had been-
The Happy Pear:
And this is us being total chances. Just going, I wonder will this work? I don't know, actually have a shot at us.
The Happy Pear:
And we ended up getting a nurse and we got 20 people from the community that signed up, and they probably signed up out of curiosity of going, "What are these crazy lads up to?" Got bored and they signed up out of boredom or whatever? But we had 20 people come along and they came once a week for four weeks. And the first night Angela our nurse measured everyone's cluster weight and blood pressure, this is 10 years ago. And then, as chefs, we just passed around food and got them to taste stuff. And they came once a week for four weeks-
The Happy Pear:
And most people would have been meat and two veg, this was a big shift. Talking about lentils in Ireland 10 years ago-
The Happy Pear:
Exactly as you know this. You know this, you've been-
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh yeah.
The Happy Pear:
... just as much as we have. And obviously the results were incredible after four weeks, and we did more and more of them. They got bigger and bigger and-
The Happy Pear:
And then it started, the national newspapers started to do articles and started to get too busy. And I was like, this is too busy, I don't want to be doing courses all the time. I'm enjoying cooking and going to the markets, and all this. So, we kind of had the idea, let's build one online. So we built an online course back when people were nervous that they put in their credit card numbers into the internet.
The Happy Pear:
I think it was eight years ago. And back then I got to chat your mom. It was with your mom and your dad, about getting your dad to ... Will he ever look at it? So your mom would feed information to your dad, and Caldwell would kind of go, yes...
The Happy Pear:
... phone calls, and they were the sweetest, most lovely people. When you're just like, my God, you're so supportive and encouraging and we're two literal chancers in Ireland and here you are as heroes just ... Because I remember reading your dad's book and going wow, this is ... It was a lovely moment.
The Happy Pear:
And Collin T. Campbell as well, they kind of gave us a bit of support behind us and we've kind of gone with that. And now it's kind of gone from that original happy hard course, which was very slow to get going for the first four years as an online product, and now we've got six courses where we've had more than 50,000 people through them in more than 120 countries now. And we partner with doctors, and consultant gastroenterologists, and Joe Kahn is the cardiologist for Happy Heart now.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah.
The Happy Pear:
And it's really fun, it's amazing. And it's the same type of journey which you've bad in terms of-
The Happy Pear:
It's encouraging people, supporting people really see the whole food plant based diet and that's really it. Just wonderful.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, so did you guys go to chef school, or did you just learn from this woman that had the birds landing on her shoulder?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah. So I would have trained under her and then I guess you do it every day, and you're running kitchens for 10 years, and you quickly get to know-
The Happy Pear:
And then-
The Happy Pear:
... A lot of it. You know the way-
The Happy Pear:
And then I guess we started, after about, maybe it was, it must have been seven years ago, we got an email from Jamie Oliver's team asking if we'd be part of his Food Tube Channel, which was a YouTube channel, as vegan chefs that were dads. Would we come over and be part of that? So that got us into YouTube and when you're in YouTube, you've got to innovate and get people's attention quickly. So you've got to learn really quick how to be very innovative, really drive things on. So we've kind of, I think we've shot about 500 videos on that, we've got nearly 40 million views. And you kind of learn how to really iterate and create, and be relevant. So that's been a very fun-
The Happy Pear:
And then I think the same way we're writing cookbooks helps to distill things and really kind of, like when you're cooking, to reduce a source, it helps you reduce the information of cooking and how to make it relevant to someone at home in a kitchen with an aubergine, or an eggplant going, "What do I do with this?"
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I am so ... So, I was just going through your Instagram page. And it is such a look into the fun, whimsical, creative, artistic, beautiful lives, active lives that you guys lead on a daily basis. And I look at it and I'm like, I want part of this world. I want in. You guys have done a really tremendous job. But, who does all your photography and the food shots? Really?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Happy Pear:
Someone here.
Rip Esselstyn:
Stephen, you're doing a bang up job of.
The Happy Pear:
Thank you, Rip! (laughter)
Rip Esselstyn:
So you guys are-
Rip Esselstyn:
And you guys have written, what? Five, six books? Seven books?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah we've written five, we're writing our sixth one now.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh my gosh, you just, it never ends. So, do you both write, or how does that work?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, it depends. Usually I write words, I'm better at words. And the next book we're writing, we're both writing it together, which is fun. It's old recipes, old food. So this is a fun one.
The Happy Pear:
Like they go through processes. I remember say the first book, I remember we got approached by publisher in London to do a cookbook and I was like a cookbook course. And we get a contract. We weren't used to seeing contracts like ... And we didn't end up doing it. And then I remember, the publishers from Penguin contacted us and we went and we met them. And it was like sitting down, I don't know if you ever grew up reading Roald Dahl or Enid Blyton. It was like sitting down with these wonderful educated people that use great vocabulary, and you're eating, drinking out of the good China it felt like, I really want to have friends like these Dave, can we sign with Penguin?
The Happy Pear:
We signed with Penguin and Penguin said, "If you're a chef that has a TV show in Ireland, you might sell 2,000 copies." But they said, "Because you lads have a shop, we'll print 6,000 and you'll sell them over 10 years." And we went, "Okay, great." 6,000 copies. And it's not only a cookbook, it's a vegetarian cookbook. And the book came out, I think was in October. And I remember I was away and I remember phoning Dave, "Dave what's happening?" And Dave said, "You'll never believe it. Some fellow got up and he drove two hours, and he wants me to write my name on his book." He couldn't get over this. This was amazing.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
The Happy Pear:
And the book came out, within two months, we'd sold the 6,000 copies and it was the number one best selling cookbook in Ireland that year. In the following year it outsold Jamie Oliver and Nigella Lawson, two copies to one. So it was one of those things that just, don't know, just exploded in a fortunate way.
Rip Esselstyn:
And are you still with Penguin?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah.
The Happy Pear:
Still with Penguin. Yeah. We found, I guess through our business, that it's kind of partnership and having those deeper relationships is, don't know, makes it more fun and more enriching, and you get to share the journey more with people that you trust and you care about.
Rip Esselstyn:
Absolutely, absolutely. Well they must be overjoyed with the success that you guys have helped bring them. Wow. Incredible. We'll be right back with the Happy Pear. But first, I want to remind everyone that Mother's Day is literally right around the corner. But, no need to fret, we've got you covered. Simply head over to plantstrong.com/garden and sign up to receive one of our limited edition Plant Strong spring coronary experience boxes. This is the second in a series of at home cooking classes in partnership with our friends at the Chef's Garden, a regenerative farm near the shores of Lake Erie, that has some of the most fertile soil on the planet.
Rip Esselstyn:
You can sign up today and then make a date with mom, or with anyone who will appreciate this fun, culinary activity, to come together to make a four course spring dinner that is out of sight. These boxes will begin to ship on May 17, and may include premium handpicked produce, a full library of videos that show you how Chef Jamie taught my mom and me, to make this meal, and beautiful printed recipe cards. Visit plantstrong.com/garden today for all the details. And now, let's get back to my visit with the Happy Pear.
Rip Esselstyn:
One of the things that I see you guys are doing, and it seems like when it's possible on a daily basis is meditation and breath work. Can you just talk to our listeners about that?
The Happy Pear:
Can I tell a story about this though?
Rip Esselstyn:
I would love it. I would love it. But before you do I have to chime in. So, you guys did Vipassana meditation, didn't you? When you were-
The Happy Pear:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
So my brother, I got a younger brother Zeb, that's probably done, no joke, 30 of those Vipassana meditation courses. And-
The Happy Pear:
Wow!
Rip Esselstyn:
30 of them. And anyway, I haven't done one yet but I feel like I should because, a lot of good would probably come from it. But okay, go ahead. Go ahead.
The Happy Pear:
And what's your brother like? Is he pretty tuned in and very ...
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, yeah. He practiced Buddhism off the grid for like, six, seven years. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's-
The Happy Pear:
He's a Vipassana master.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Trying to be yes.
The Happy Pear:
Like all of us, like all of us. But we were, I remember it was back when we were like 21 or 22, dad called us up one time he says, "Lads, I went to see this big, tall lad with massive hands in New York. If you can get yourself to New York," it was Tony Robbins, he went to Tony Robbins' seminar. He said, "I think you'd really enjoy it, you'd have great fun." So he said, "If you can get yourselves to New York, I'll pay for your ticket." So we ended up going to New York and we went to Tony Robbins seminar, which was gas crack.
The Happy Pear:
Gas means funny in Ireland.
The Happy Pear:
And crack means fun in Ireland. So it was really good fun. And we went straight from there to attend a silent Vipassana retreat. So we went straight to Tony Robbins of, "You can do it, you can have it. You can be." And so much fun, really. And then we went the polar opposite of 10 days, no talking, no phones, no books, no looking at anyone, a lot of time in the dark in a cross legged position for 10 days. And we ended up staying there for a month.
Rip Esselstyn:
And what was more powerful? What was more powerful? The Tony Robbins or the meditation?
The Happy Pear:
I think it was the ... They were both wonderful in their own different ways but the meditation was more profound and had a more deeper, inner result resolve which was nice.
The Happy Pear:
I think one was more about extrinsic success, whereas the other was more about intrinsic. So extrinsic meaning, or external, you're more focused on accumulation of material possessions. Whereas the other one was more like, you had to sit and face your demons, and have to sit with yourself and just observe the craziness of your own mind.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah you just sit there with the great Sword of Truth. And all that. But that was the formation of Vipassana, it was at the root of it. And for probably five years after that, before we had kids, we used to meditate two hours a day, an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening. And that was-
Rip Esselstyn:
Everyday? Everyday?
The Happy Pear:
That was everyday. And that was even when we used to go to the fruit market. We used to have to get up at 4:30 a.m. to go to the fruit market, and we used to get up at 3:30 and meditate like sleep meditate for an hour before we go to the fruit market. We were like a pair of monks, we were very monastic. We'd come back in the evening and we'd meditate ... We were ...
The Happy Pear:
Yeah we were pretty hardcore.
Rip Esselstyn:
And now can you meditate lying down? Or you have to be sitting up and in position.
The Happy Pear:
... I'd sit cross legged, yes.
The Happy Pear:
If I lay down I fall asleep.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah. That's not meditation, that's napping.
The Happy Pear:
But I think now that, I guess over recent years when life has got really busy, and we've young kids, not together, but with our own partners we have kids. And I guess as the business became more demanding, we lost the practice of meditation. And it's only in recent years, we've really got back and realized how important it is. And I think for anyone listening, meditation doesn't have to be sitting there chanting, it could be having a cup of tea. I think meditation is, the simple practice is practicing being present or anchoring your attention in something and focusing it. So it could be walking, it could be spending time in nature, it could be playing with your kids, it could be having beers with friends. But anything that brings you back to that present moment and helps you focus your attention.
The Happy Pear:
And I think it's also back to like, we live in, nowadays there's so much distraction where we ... If you can concentrate and focus, it is a superpower in today's day and age of binging and buzzing and vibrations, and notifications, and now so many causing our attention. So, I think meditation for us is really the discipline. It's almost like gym for your mind in terms of training your attention. You sit there, it starts planning your day, and then you come back to your breath. You sit there and it starts thinking about the car that went by and it's a red car, and is it like my car? Maybe it's Paula in her car. And then you come back again, oh my breath, my breath, my sensations. And I think it's a wonderful ... Gym for your mind I think is so ... Or for your soul really.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you-
The Happy Pear:
Do you meditate at all Rip?
Rip Esselstyn:
I don't, I don't. No, and I was ... I was talking to Rich Roll maybe a couple months ago, I had him on the podcast, and we talked about it. And I was like, okay, I got to start meditating, and I haven't yet met. I would say that my meditation is getting up, it's going to swim practice. It's kind of meditation in motion. And Rich was like, "Nah, you need to sit still."
The Happy Pear:
He'd know.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah he's a swimmer so he knows all of it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but so no, I don't have a meditation program. No, I don't.
The Happy Pear:
It was a friend who was encouraging another friend there recently and he was saying to just start with one minute a day. Start with one minute a day and build it by one minute until you get to five and see if that's sustainable. Because one minute is quite sustainable. And two minutes, and then three minutes, and then from there you could probably make it to five and see how that is.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
The Happy Pear:
I thought that was a good entry point.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, you guys both are married, correct?
The Happy Pear:
I was separated for seven years and now I'm going to ... I'll probably get married again this year.
Rip Esselstyn:
And you both have children?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
The Happy Pear:
10, we both have 10 year olds, we both have seven year olds, and then he's got a three year olds as well.
The Happy Pear:
It's funny I guess being twins so much, your life is in, or so much of our lives have been in succinct. So it's like literally, my wife got pregnant, Dave's wife got pregnant, and we weren't planning it. And then similarly after, then our next children within two months of each other.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah so that was pretty amazing. First two kids are-
The Happy Pear:
So they're all very close, and we're very fortunate in that way.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, my gosh. And then boys, girls, what do you have?
The Happy Pear:
I have two girls and he has two boys and a girl.
Rip Esselstyn:
Incredible. So just so you-
The Happy Pear:
What do you have?
Rip Esselstyn:
I've got three, and I'm very close to you guys. I got married way late in life. I've got a 13 year old, 11 year old, and a seven year old.
The Happy Pear:
And what are they? Are they boys or girls, or?
Rip Esselstyn:
No. So the oldest is a boy, and then the middle and the youngest are girls.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah.
The Happy Pear:
Okay so you've got 10 and seven girls, I've got 10 and seven girls.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes, yes.
The Happy Pear:
And what age did you get married at then?
Rip Esselstyn:
I was 40, almost 44.
The Happy Pear:
Wow good man.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. No I got-
The Happy Pear:
I'm going to do round two and I'll be 41 so.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wait, how old are you guys right now?
The Happy Pear:
41.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh my gosh, you guys are young. That is so phenomenal. You've done so much. You got so much more to do, it's exciting. Now, I want to say, I'm going to say one word and then I want you guys to talk about it. Handstands. Handstands, why do you guys love handstands?
The Happy Pear:
Because it's the simplest way you ... Like say, we do it before anything. I'll always do handstands and maybe hold it for 30 seconds or something. Because all the blood flows through your brain. You might be feeling I feel a bit tired, I feel a bit creaky. I don't feel like I'm buzzing to do a handstand and you feel like a kid, you feel playful, you feel stupid, and it makes you , ya know sends loads of blood to your brain.
The Happy Pear:
And it kind of changes your perspective, you're literally looking at things in other ways.
The Happy Pear:
It turns turns life on its head.
The Happy Pear:
But I guess we've always joked about, we always wanted to be in a circus and I think it's fun, as we get older, at least what we found a lot of our friends, you stop, start new hobbies and you're learning new tricks and new skills. And I guess, we see handstands as a fun little, I can hold a handstand. Can I do a one arm handstand? Can I do a Mexican? Can I do a front flip? We're really enjoying just the art of play.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. And how often do you either do the art of play handstands yoga? Is this is a daily ritual?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, yeah, it certainly used to be. Like the last month we've been writing a book and I've been moving house. So we've been prioritizing those things. But for the last, I'd say four or five years, we'd meet most mornings, I'd say five or six mornings a week at 6:00 a.m. and we'd train for an hour. So we do, whether it's yoga, or handstands, or animal movement, or a run, or some form of physical play. And we'd always, like back pre-COVID because we'd often put things up on social media, we'd have different people come in and visit, and they'd want to be a part of it. So you could get someone coming in who was a dancer teaching you how to dance. Or someone else coming in to teach you how to do-
The Happy Pear:
Drammen yoga, Pilates.
The Happy Pear:
... or some kind of new breath thing. It was very fun pre-COVID that people would just drop in randomly. "I'll come in and I'll do a class with you on such and such." And so we've kind of almost consciously, I think it was unconsciously first, that thing is kind of doing different things all the time. So it's not just one yoga practice that's static, it's kind of being-
The Happy Pear:
And your body becomes very limited. We found we did about 15 years, almost 20 years of Ashtanga Yoga, very serious Ashtanga Yoga and it can be quite competitive and quite abrasive and-
The Happy Pear:
I would say stiffness. You know the way yoga you're doing it to be more flexible, but if you just do the one set of movements, you become stiff in those movements. So we've now, over the last five years I'd say, become a lot more varied with our movements and realized that flexibility is the king of all as you get older, rather than having, being able to bench press loads of weights.
Rip Esselstyn:
Totally hear you. Totally hear you. So you guys, and just looking at your Instagram, looking at the covers of your books, I'm seeing you guys right now. You two are some of the most fashionable guys that I know. As far as, but it's this relaxed, I don't give a damn. Kind of like fashion. Whether it's the blue jean shorts without the shirt, whether it's the flannel top with the jeans, or the shorts, or the flip flops, or whatever the look is. Is this intentional, or is this just the look that you guys feel most authentic and you in?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah I'd say it's completely authentic because, we're like a pair of caveman really. We really are. We were like genuine, we're like a pair of primates.
The Happy Pear:
We're very functional in our fashion. The reason-
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah I know.
The Happy Pear:
... shorts is because they don't show the dirt very well-
The Happy Pear:
They're made of some elastic kind of thing, so they last for two years. And you really, you can do gymnastics and then you can do yoga in them. You can build your house with them. You can build some carpentry with a shed in them, and you just brush them off and ah they're grand, so I'll get another day out of them.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah. I think one of the fortunate things that we have is, I guess we worked hard, in recent years, maybe it's turning 40, you become a little bit more existential and imagining, what's real success and what gives me meaning? And we've kind of really focused on trying to cultivate a lifestyle that we love. Where you can get up in the morning and maybe meditate for a little then meet Dave, and pre-COVID meet some friends, and we do various different training. We swim in the sea every day at sunrise, and there's a wonderful group and community that support each other to do and it. And there's great, with the expression in Ireland, [inaudible 00:44:02], which means fun and music.
The Happy Pear:
But this wonderful crack, which means not as in crack, okay?
The Happy Pear:
And camaraderie, camaraderie.
The Happy Pear:
But the sense of the joy, the friendship, the life and the support of each other. I'm going to tea in the beach, and we celebrate each other's birthdays, then generally I'll come back and have breakie with the family and bring the kids to school, and then go off and do work. But it's, I guess we've really tried to cultivate this lifestyle that we love, and really that's success for us in recent years. And it's-
The Happy Pear:
And just in case anyone's wondering, it sounds very idyllic, and it is in some sense, but we have odd days and bad days just like anyone else. But we've a lot of habits and pillars in our life that make us have a lot more good days than other days.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well I was reading something somewhere, and I can't remember where it was but, it was about happiness, and how you got to create your own happiness. And it sounds like you guys have done just that in everything you do. Starting with these crazy ass morning swims in the ocean. Does the temperature ... Is it the same year round? Is it fluctuate at all?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah.
The Happy Pear:
I think one of the fun thing about swimming, like we swim at sunrise and in Ireland in summer, it's at 4:50 a.m. and in winter it's at 8:40 so it really changes, so you got to adapt to the light. And then also in summer, it'll be warmer, the sea might hit a maximum temperature of 16 degrees Celsius, but in winter it might hit four degrees Celsius. So it's actually like, they call it ice swimming. So it's freezing. But, the one thing that sustains it and makes us do it every day of the year is the friendship. And I think it's a great reminder in these times when we're struggling, like in the UK they appointed a minister for loneliness, and loneliness is a bit of an epidemic, and I think it's a wonderful reminder for me that sense of community, the sense of togetherness, you can get over the cold and you can embrace it.
The Happy Pear:
And it's symbolic almost that together we face this common enemy of the sea. And then it transforms you every morning, you get in there with problems winging about something rather and you come out go, geez it's a great day. Wow! It just primes your brain and sets in a different trajectory where you're more like a five year old than a 45 year old. Which is-
The Happy Pear:
You come out, I always thinking, you come out, you know and a dog in the morning it's wagging it's tail and it's crazy. And you come out and see it wagging the tail going huh. And you're one of those annoying people that's going, oh my God, I feel so great. That type of thing.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's so true. It truly is a rebirth. And I think that's one of the reasons why I ... I swim every morning, six mornings a week, except for Sundays, and I couldn't agree with you more. But I am not doing the ocean swim where it's that cold. And there's probably something about the element of the cold that also really refreshes you.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah. And I think the element of nature, many of us are disconnected from nature and I think it's lovely the variation, I don't know in Austin but in Ireland the weather changes like often. It could be snowing and sunny, windy, we could get four seasons in one day. So, it's amazing how this simple thing of walking down to the sea, every day is suddenly even at the moment, the Magnolia trees are in bloom, you get tan. Or it's wavy today. I saw a little lobster on the beach. Wow, I don't see lobsters very often.
The Happy Pear:
Or the tide, you can see the moon's cycles. The moon is waning at the moment. The sunrise typically goes more around towards the east as the year goes on, there's all these little things you're more connected with nature, which is a nice thing, nice habit of it. And then jumping in the sea is almost like mainlining nature because it's like this boss ... It's like this rush of wall of energy just hits you in the morning and bowls you over you know.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is your, to use your term, what's your favorite breakie these days, Stephen and David?
The Happy Pear:
You go?
The Happy Pear:
No you go, you go. So Stephen's very, he's very consistent.
The Happy Pear:
I don't know. I think-
The Happy Pear:
He's had one lover his whole life, one breakie lover, he's just (laughter). He's a horse. He's an inner horse.
The Happy Pear:
Being Irish, I just find it really hard to cheat on oatmeal or porridge, is what we call it. I just adore, it nourishes my soul. Sometimes I reckon I have oatmeal going through my blood, I've eaten so much of it. We'll probably eat porridge twice a week for dinner with the kids because the kids just go, "I don't want to eat anything, can we just do porridge?" It's like, "Yes we can have porridge."
Rip Esselstyn:
Now let me ask you this with your oatmeal porridge, are you doing steel-cut oats? Are you doing rolled oats? What is that?
The Happy Pear:
I think in an ideal world steel-cut is the most healthy, but I think for anyone listening in, you all have experienced yourself, often the ideal can be, the ideal for a reason and you kind of have to go with what's practical and what works. I use some organic jumbo oats, I think jumbo gives a little bit more texture. I don't know if you have jumbo in the States, but jumbo is like the larger flaked oat versus, often they'll be porridge flake, which'll be a smaller, quicker cooking one. Just a jumbo would give a little bit of texture, a little bit of bite. I cook at half oat milk. I use half water. So it's like one part oat flake, one part oat milk, one part water and you end up with this lovely creamy texture. Normally I'll top of it with, I might put very common pot.
The Happy Pear:
I'll put granola, if maybe blood oranges are in season right now. A bit of coconut yogurt, might put some ... You know will tend to really pimp it out and really go to turn, to make, turn into an art piece that you love.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. And do you have a, is it a medium sized bowl, a small bowl, a big bowl?
The Happy Pear:
Horse sized, stallion size.
Rip Esselstyn:
Stallion, yes.
The Happy Pear:
No, I have a large size. And even, can I tell you a little funny story about porridge?. Back a few, and this was, I guess back a number of years ago we used to make porridge in the, for ourselves in the cafe. And we'd think, we live in a small little community town-
The Happy Pear:
This is 15 years ago, this is a long time ago.
The Happy Pear:
My sense of time is poor. But I remember kind of going, geez, no one will buy porridge, we're not going to sell porridge. And Sally said, this was the manager at the time. She said, "Lads, I think we should try selling porridge." And I was like, "Nah, Sally, no one will buy porridge, let's give it away for free." And we thought okay, right, let's give it away for free and see if anyone's interested. So, people would come in and they'd go, "Can I have an Americano and can I have a bowl of porridge?" And you go, great, and you give them the bowl of porridge and they'd go, "How much is it?" And you go, "Three Euro." And they go, "Three Euro but you forget to charge the porridge." You go, "No porridge is free." And they'd go, "Wow, cool."
The Happy Pear:
And it was kind of, we did that for a week and it created this, just nice little bit of a buzz about it. And then it came to the end of that week and Sally was like, "Right lads, what are charging for this porridge?" And I was like, "I don't know, three Euro, two Euro? I don't know."
The Happy Pear:
And then and then Steve says, he says, "Can we just give it away for free just for one more week?" It feels really good, people are enjoying it. And that one more week has been 15 years, and I don't know how many millions of bowls porridge at this stage, that we've given away just plain porridge has always been free for the last 15 years so that can tell you how much ... And it was really just an idea. It was just something to build community, and it kind of just kept going.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well that's your loss leader then right there.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, long before there was a loss leader that was a few years ago.
Rip Esselstyn:
All right well now . Now David, what's your breakie?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, so I feel like I've cheated on porridge for the last number of years. I have a. I'm sorry lad, I feel like in a fraternity here of porridge lovers.
The Happy Pear:
Porridge anonymous.
The Happy Pear:
Porridge anonymous. I have a chia seed pudding. So we have chia seeds with flax seed and all sorts of other, cacao nibs and mac or whatever else might be in the press. And I'll soak that in oat milk and then I'll top it with lots or fruit. I love apple and pear and banana and Kiwi, and probably mango and blueberry, and then lots of almond butter. And that's my breakie. And it's ... I have a horse size and it's just ... I just love it. It's my favorite meal of the day, pretty much every day.
Rip Esselstyn:
I hear you. I hear you. So, now the chia seeds, when you say you soak them, how long do you soak them before you-
The Happy Pear:
Only as long as I'm chopping the fruit. So I'll soak them all, I'll put in probably seven, I put in say seven tablespoons of chia seeds for me, put in a bit of ground flax, put in a bit of maca, probably add in maybe 150 to 200 ml of oat milk I'd say, and then whisk it with a fork. And then I'd go on to pluck my fruit. Take me 10 minutes to chop the fruit for me inside. But at that stage I'll have to give the chia seeds another little whisk, little bit more out milk, and then I'll top it all up, lather on the almond butter and, breakie's ready and then sit down and make love to my breakie.
Rip Esselstyn:
I love it. Now is that a recipe in the new book or one of the old books? The Dave's chia seed-
The Happy Pear:
No I think it's probably-
The Happy Pear:
I'm sure it's there in book 5.
The Happy Pear:
I'm sure it's in some course or something.
The Happy Pear:
... had fun trying to distill, I guess we were professional chefs for about 15 years, we kind of wanted to try to distill those learnings down where people can substitute different ingredients and to think like a chef. So say you're making soup you're thinking, what's my base veg? What's my stock? What's my flavor agent?
The Happy Pear:
Or even a good way to describe it is, we tried to kind of ... So we've been running our kitchens for 10 or 15 years, so we'd be used to cooking in volume for hundreds of people. So an example of this book, it was Vegan Cooking for Everyone. Like say a granola recipe, we broke it down into a scalable recipe. As in 50% rolled oats, 10% nuts, 10% seeds, 10% dried fruit, 10% sweetener, and 10% fat. And your fat could be coconut, or sunflower, or canola oil. Your dried fruits could be raisins, or mango, or goji berries, whatever it might be. Your nuts could be whatever you have.
The Happy Pear:
And this-
The Happy Pear:
Your seeds could be-
The Happy Pear:
... This recipe you could use to make 50 kilos, or to make a ton, or to make 100 grams.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah because we literally make tons of granola every week, because we have a product to sell around Ireland. So that was our ... That's what we tried to do with the full book to try to make it where it's these scalable formula so you can adapt and kind of go, okay, I don't have chickpeas but I have butter beans and kidney beans. I don't have peppers, but I have other fast cooking veggies like spinach and broccoli, or other things. So it was a fun book, that was Vegan Cooking for Everyone absolutely.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. You guys have a favorite green, leafy vegetable that you like to eat?
The Happy Pear:
Well now it has to be kale now, doesn't it? I know you're a big lover a kale.
Rip Esselstyn:
I am. I like the dinosaur kale, yeah.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah, yeah.
The Happy Pear:
I'm going to go there. So on the sprout farm that Dara originally started, we grow spread and pea and spread sunflower and maybe fenugreek, and alfalfa, and clove, and radish. But I think spread in coriander is incredibly delicious.
The Happy Pear:
You're being very high-brown there Stephen Flynn.
The Happy Pear:
I do like it, it's a lovely flavor too. It's only in small quantities.
Rip Esselstyn:
I don't think I've ever had that.
The Happy Pear:
Oh coriander you call it cilantro. Say you're taking a cilantro seed and you're germinate, you probably get a 10, 12 days old. And it's like that cilantro pack, but it's super concentrated and light, and almost has a little bit of acid to it. It's beautiful.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
The Happy Pear:
We don't call it dinosaur kale, we call it a cavolo nero here. So from America they'll call it dinosaur kale. But in Italy it's called cavolo nero, which is like black cabbage.
Rip Esselstyn:
Cavolo nero.
The Happy Pear:
And you can heat cavolo nero and it's, yeah it's the same dinosaur kale. It's like ...
The Happy Pear:
No, it's beautiful.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, no, totally. So, what are you guys most excited about right now that you're working on? It sounds like a cookbook, another cookbook, right?
The Happy Pear:
I'm having so much fun at the moment, we just moved house and we bought our first house, which is an old 160 year old house. And I've been learning to build. Now I say the word build but pretty much use a screw gun and drill holes in the wall, and hang skirting boards, and I've been having so much fun. I realized building our hands, you know the way you become so detached, you're very good at putting a photo up on Instagram, or you're very good at typing out a recipe, but you're not very good at plumbing, pulling a toilet, or how to fix a leak, or ... I'm just loving that, I'm having so much fun with DIY.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well that's, do it yourself, getting back to the basics, that's awesome.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah. And I'd say I'm fascinated with the concept of community. I think it's something ... Like I was listening to a video recently during the week and it kind of really got me thinking of, it was talking about the importance, in terms of longevity, of our social integration. So, the people you walk past every day, do you say hello to them? Do you say hello to the postman? The person who makes your coffee? Do you have that little bit of chitchat? Because it's very easy in our busy lives to avoid the small talk. And my wife's polish and she'll often slag me having Ireland, our favorite conversation is about the weather. And she'll often joke at me and laugh. But there's now more and more research saying the importance of the small talk, in the sense of that social integration is so important for our longevity. It's one of the most important factors they found, that as well as close relationships.
The Happy Pear:
So I think acting, I think especially during our disconnected world right now, I think the importance of saying hello and how are you? Just lovely day, isn't it? Those little chats are so part of the human experience and part of the sense of tribe, and the collective, which we all crave to be a part of.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. What was the name of that book?
The Happy Pear:
That was one in the Blue Zone. It was a talk by a lady, let me tell you ...
The Happy Pear:
He'll find out. It was a nice talk was a three minute clip going on WhatsApp.
The Happy Pear:
No but I listened to the full one, it was good.
The Happy Pear:
Did you?
The Happy Pear:
Yeah I'll find it give me a second.
Rip Esselstyn:
So let me ask you this before we bow out here and I'll let you guys, David I'll let you get back to banging some boards-
The Happy Pear:
Susan Pinker. So Susan Pinker, the secret to living longer maybe are social life. You find it in Ted, Susan Pinker.
The Happy Pear:
And that was really interesting because it went from, most people think their close family and friends are the number one biggest predicator, and that's what a lot of people would think. She said that it was actually your social integration. And they call it loose relationships. So those, and in Ireland, if you live in a small town, they're very prevalent because everyone knows one another's business. But it's those, as Steven said, you're walking in the street, how are you John, lovely day. Oh Geez. All that, kind of those conversations which is ...
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So who really inspires and motivates each and every one of you? I mean, each of you?
The Happy Pear:
My children? I think it's just, they press my buttons when they scream, and they give out, and it tries to teach me to be more patient, it teaches me to be more present, and it teaches me what love is. So I think that's probably ... And my wife teaches me a lot about how to be a kinder, better person. So yeah, I think-
The Happy Pear:
I think all the people. I'd say all the people in my life and I'm just saying this as me, but I'm sure all of us can relate to that. You know the way you'll see someone else and a friend will be kind, you go, I'm going to be a bit more kinder now. Or someone else is kind of nice and thoughtful, you go, right, I think I should be a bit more kind and thoughtful. Or you watch a good video and it talks about social connections, and you go, let's talk about this Steve, this is really good. This is going to help people. So I think everything inspires me. Spring at the moment is inspiring me because it's blooming. I'm walking in the street, the birds are chirping at 5:00 a.m. and I'm going Jesus, Damn. Wow, the Magnolia is blooming, the Daffodils are coming out, the leaves are budding on our street.
The Happy Pear:
And I think that inspires me. The sea inspires ... I could just keep going on forever so let me just shut my mouth (laughter)
Rip Esselstyn:
I think like life inspires you. Definitely.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah and then other times it doesn't. So, it all depends.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, you know what? You two, I really appreciate you taking time out to have a conversation with me. You guys shine your light and your love, like very few people that I know do. And the, I think the joy and the happiness, and the education that you guys have shared with literally millions and millions of people, it is breathtaking. And it is awe inspiring, and I want to thank you guys for being such trailblazing people in the plant based movement. Thank you.
The Happy Pear:
Geez, thank you.
The Happy Pear:
Wonderful words but, right back at you. Every single one of those words you said to us are just boom, right back at you.
The Happy Pear:
So thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. And I hope that this is the first of many connections in the future. And with that, you guys will you do a sign off with me. We do-
The Happy Pear:
Absolutely.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah of course.
The Happy Pear:
... I want to do a little stoty - let me give it a story as well.
Rip Esselstyn:
Just repeat after me. Okay, ready? Peace.
The Happy Pear:
Peace.
Rip Esselstyn:
And then turn it around, engine two.
The Happy Pear:
Engine two.
Rip Esselstyn:
Plant strong.
The Happy Pear:
Plant strong!
The Happy Pear:
Can we do it again, it felt like a-
Rip Esselstyn:
Absolutely.
The Happy Pear:
Three, two, one. Peace, engine two-
Rip Esselstyn:
Turn it around. Engine two. Plant strong.
The Happy Pear:
Plant strong. Let me get to show the guns.
The Happy Pear:
Yeah my guns aren't so big, I must work on my guns.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is it just me or, don't you just want to be part of their world? I mean, these guys have the magic sauce. And meeting people like Stephen and David only strengthens my resolve that we, as a plant strong community, are on the right path. You may find yourself saying, whatever these guys have, I want it. Well, you can have it and it's called plants. Plants can transform lives and help you cultivate a lifestyle you love. Let's help you, visit plantstrongpodcast.com for resources on this episode, and all things plants strong. See you next week.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thank you for listening to the Plant Strong podcast. You can support the show by taking a quick minute to follow us wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. Leaving as a positive review and sharing the show with your network is another great way to help us reach as many people as possible with the exciting news about plants. Thank you in advance for your support, it means everything. Have you had your own Galileo moment that you'd like to share? What happened when you stepped into the arena and shared the beliefs that you thought to be true? I'd love to hear about it. Visit plantstrongpodcast.com to submit your story, and to learn more about today's guests and sponsors.
Rip Esselstyn:
The Plant Strong podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin, and Wade Clark. This season is dedicated to all of those courageous truth seekers who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision, and hold firm to a higher truth. Most notably, my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr. and Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks for listening.
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