#104: SNACKABLES with Rip and Jess - Recipe for Delicious: Stews and Chilis
Welcome to Episode Five of our new PLANTSTRONG Snackables podcast series, a bite-sized podcast where host, Rip Esselstyn, and co-host, Jess Hegarty, dish on all things plants!
Jessica leads product innovation for the PlantStrong food line and, together with Rip, provides a peek behind the curtain on plant-based food headlines, market research, ingredients, and cooking inspiration. Plus, you'll always walk away with a recipe or two to share with your friends and family.
In Episode 5, Rip and Jess talk about all things chilis, soups, and stews - including a look at the all-new PLANTSTRONG chilis and stews available now at Whole Foods Market.
Here are Some Tasty Bites from Today's Episode:
Do you struggle to eat beans? Why you should power through!
Which bean has the most antioxidants?
Why limes and lemons should always be in your fridge. (Hint: It’s like squeezing a little sunshine on your foods!)
What the heck is hominy?
What surprising ingredient can you add to soups to make them creamy?
Why are black pepper and turmeric such a magical combination?
Ever heard of the benefits of black cumin?
An exciting look at the all-new PLANTSTRONG “Chews” - Organic Creamy White Bean Chili, Organic Engine 2 Firehouse Chili, Kitchari Indian Lentil Stew, Thai Carrot Chickpea Stew
Additional Episode Resources
Homemade Kitchari Recipe with Jess and Evan Hegarty
For all PLANTSTRONG Resources, visit plantstrong.com
Full Transcript
Rip Esselstyn:
Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of PLANTSTRONG Snackables, where Jessica and I chew on all things food and specifically plants. Jessica is my wonderful cohost. She also is the heroine of healthy ingredients. If there's something healthy, she has discovered it and knows all about it.
Jess Hegarty:
And I'm trying to sneak it into as many PLANTSTRONG products as possible.
Rip Esselstyn:
Ah, please do.
Jess Hegarty:
Okay.
Rip Esselstyn:
How are you doing?
Jess Hegarty:
I'm doing well today, Rip. How are you?
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm well. I'm jacked. The Olympics were fantastic. I absolutely adored watching them, my family. Is it my family and me or my family and I? Anyway.
Jess Hegarty:
My family and I enjoyed watching them.
Rip Esselstyn:
My family and I, we loved watching them, especially the swimming. I'm an ex swimmer, so I love watching swimming. Many people think that watching swimming is like watching cows graze, but I adore it and have loved watching the American swimmers really do exceptionally well. There's something that I want to bring to your attention and all of our listeners and it really has steamed my clams over the course of the games. Specifically, this was directed at two swimmers, Katie Ledecky and Lilly King, both world record holders and amazing swimmers, that these American athletes are settling for silver. If you get a bronze medal, that basically equates to a loss, which I absolutely find ridiculous. Katie Ledecky takes the high road and just laughs these people off and the comments they're making. Lilly King on the other hand, if you don't know Lilly, she's incredibly outspoken and basically she says, "Pardon my French, but since when do we not celebrate when we get a silver and a bronze medal?" That is total BS.
Jess Hegarty:
Good for her. That's amazing. I'm so happy to hear that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It takes me to this quote that I just love and I want to read it. It's by Theodore Roosevelt and it's called The Man in the Arena, but let's substitute Man or Woman in the Arena, and I'm going to read it right now.
Jess Hegarty:
I know this quote. It's a great one. I'd love to hear it again.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, I love it. "It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better, the credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs, who comes short again and again because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who does actually strive to do the deeds? Who knows great enthusiasm, the great devotions? Who spends themself in a worthy cause? Who at their best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement? And who at their worst, if he or she fails, at least fails while daring greatly so that his or her place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." Thank you Theodore for that.
Rip Esselstyn:
I just want to say to those people that are basically saying that these American athletes are settling for silver and getting a bronze is the equivalent of losing, I say BS.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah, that's great.
Rip Esselstyn:
And take to heart that quote by Theodore Roosevelt.
Jess Hegarty:
Absolutely. That's a memorable one. When you read it, two things came to mind for me. One is, of course, Brene Brown, who's daring greatly was named after that quote. That's how I became familiar with it, which I'm sure many of our listeners know and are familiar with Brene Brown, but the second thing is-
Rip Esselstyn:
For those that don't, who is she?
Jess Hegarty:
She's an author and, at this point, public figure who really talks about vulnerability and putting yourself out there and being brave and resilient and getting through. The second thing that this quote reminds me of and I think the reason that Brene Brown is so important in my life is we have this internal quote about the food industry. Food is hard. It is an arena, we get bloodied and battered and dusty and we'll get thrown these curve ball challenges, but we keep coming back to that mission. We keep coming back to the mission and what we're trying to provide for our community and our listeners.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's so true.
Jess Hegarty:
Right.
Rip Esselstyn:
Food is so hard, especially when you're trying to do retail, ecommerce, come up with amazing products.
Jess Hegarty:
And challenge supplier partners to do things they've never done before. A lot of the people who are helping us make these products, we're asking them to do things they never tried.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, great point because instead of just us procuring a product that exists, that they're already making, we're asking them to go outside their box, their comfort zone and really stretch them as you just said. When you can actually nail it, as we are doing, there's nothing as satisfying.
Jess Hegarty:
It is very satisfying and it takes a long time. I was actually going to ask you if your prior life as a triathlete prepared you for a future life in food retail because you need the endurance, tenacity, all those qualities.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I think it gave me the grind mindset where you just keep grinding and grinding and you just don't give up.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
I had a woman on the PLANTSTRONG Podcast recently, Sonya Looney, and she's a world record holder mountain biker. She has this great saying that the work is the reward.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. These successes wouldn't be so rewarding if we didn't have the challenges to contrast them and we do a good job of celebrating the wins when they happen. I think that comes back to your celebrate the silver, celebrate whatever wins you get thrown your way.
Rip Esselstyn:
Shoot, I'll celebrate a fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth. I'll celebrate making the Olympic team.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah, right.
Rip Esselstyn:
I don't think people realize how hard that is. I mean, I went to the Olympic trials in swimming in 1984 and I got like 22nd and 24th in my respective events and you are going against some of the best athletes in this country and there's typically, in swimming, they take the top two.
Jess Hegarty:
Amazing. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
The top two, so it is just so phenomenally difficult to make the squad. And anyone that does, you are absolutely a winner through and through and through.
Jess Hegarty:
Well, congratulations to the athletes who took gold, took silver, took bronze, placed, made it to the trials, are performing.
Rip Esselstyn:
You know what? This just brings me to another... So another guest that I had, Darin Olien, he basically says, "Show up. You just got to show up," so I celebrate anyone that shows up.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Rip Esselstyn:
Get out of your bed and show up in life.
Jess Hegarty:
Yes. Thanks. I needed to hear that today. It's good to hear that every day.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Speaking of showing up, I just want to say that my friends, the Sarno brothers, Chad and Derek, who they have the Good Catch and Derek's over in the UK working with Tesco. They've both been on the podcast. Derek was on recently, season three, Chad was on season two. They've been long time friends of mine. We worked together at Whole Foods for, gosh, probably five years, but they are just launching their brand called Wicked Healthy over in the United States and they're going nationwide for starters with Kroeger and Sprouts. I just wish them all the best.
Jess Hegarty:
Incredible. I can't think of a... I mean, what an incredible retailer to grow with.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. And you talk about two guys that have been grinding away and showing up day after day, oh my goodness gracious.
Jess Hegarty:
They're doing a lot. They're doing a lot those two and their team. But yeah, a national launch in 2,500 Kroeger and Sprout stores.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's a huge win, huge win.
Jess Hegarty:
So excited for them.
Rip Esselstyn:
Speaking of wins, right.
Jess Hegarty:
Yes, speaking of wins.
Rip Esselstyn:
Speaking of wins, we, we will actually be launching into Whole Food market stores in August.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah, they should be there already. I mean, depending on how fast your Whole Foods gets these, you could have PLANTSTRONG broths and chilis and stews on the shelf in your local Whole Foods.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yep. We've got eight skews going into Whole Foods nationwide. It has been a long, arduous last two years, but the time is here and the time is now.
Jess Hegarty:
It's here, it's now. And you're right, I was like, "Oh man, we've been working on this for the better part of a year, maybe 15 months." No, it's been longer than that since the discussions were started.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Jess Hegarty:
In today's episode, I think it would be wonderful to talk about some of the challenges that we faced. I think it would be really interesting for some of our listeners to hear about the process and, again, what kind of happens behind the scenes-
Rip Esselstyn:
Sure.
Jess Hegarty:
Through development, some of the challenges that we faced sourcing unique ingredients, getting appropriate certifications. As we're doing that, maybe talking through some of the reasons why we included specific ingredients that we chose to include.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, you're the heroine of healthy ingredients, so that-
Jess Hegarty:
Yes, I'm eager to talk about those.
Rip Esselstyn:
That would be fun to talk about.
Jess Hegarty:
Great. Great.
Rip Esselstyn:
I think just for the sake of time today, why don't we focus today on our stews and our chilis-
Jess Hegarty:
Great.
Rip Esselstyn:
Which we affectionately are now calling our chews.
Jess Hegarty:
Our chews, yep.
Rip Esselstyn:
Which is a amalgamation of chilis and stews.
Jess Hegarty:
And stews.
Rip Esselstyn:
Feel free to refer to these as the PLANTSTRONG chews.
Jess Hegarty:
It's catchy. But yeah, somebody coined it and we've embraced it and it's just stuck. Well, great. Well, yeah. Let's start talking about those.
Rip Esselstyn:
Sure. Where do you want to kick off?
Jess Hegarty:
Well, I think what I'm most excited about, or one of the things that I think our audience will be excited about because they're already familiar with it, we're bringing back a remastered Engine Two Firehouse Chili. That's one skew that's definitely making a comeback.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, this little guy right here. Yeah. No, I am super excited about that one. So when that was on the shelf as Engine Two, God, it was probably for six years at Whole Foods, it was definitely one of our best selling Engine Two products. What happened is there was an issue actually with the people that make tetra packs. One of them went out of business and Engine Two, the PLANTSTRONG chili, was a casualty of that going out of business, but it's back, it's better than ever.
Jess Hegarty:
We found a new supplier partner to make this for us and they've been amazing. And actually, for the recipe or the reformulation of the Engine Two Firehouse Chili and all of our skews, we've brought in an incredible, I call him our celebrity chef.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I'd say he's more of a PLANTSTRONG chef whisperer. He really is. The thing about... His name is Ken Rubin and he runs the Rouxbe Cooking School, it's an online cooking school. And Ken, he's just got such a sophisticated, nuanced palate and he knows exactly what things need, what there's too much of. He's been on the team now for well over a year.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah, but he's been working with us lock and lock step on all of these reformulations, through the whole recipe development process and his contributions have been invaluable.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, this is truly a team effort.
Jess Hegarty:
Well, I know with our meetings with Ken, I always come away with something else. Like, of course, we talk about the chilis and stews and making progress there, but then he gives us little tips and tricks for our kitchen. Any that stuck with you? Any that you remember? I mean, we've heard so many, it's hard to pull from.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I think one of the biggest and it doesn't so much apply with the Firehouse Chili, but more a way of the Kitchari, with which is our Indian Lentil Stew, and that is basically how a lime, a little bit of a lime juice can just do wonders for a lot of these dishes.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah, absolutely. I would say it still even applies to the Firehouse Chili. I think all of these skews would be served well with a side of lime. So yes, the lime, that's something I've taken from him. He puts a lot of smoked black pepper. That's a key ingredient.
Rip Esselstyn:
So yeah, I didn't even know there was an ingredient called Smoked Black Pepper. In one of our, I think it was the shiitake mushroom or one of them, he mentioned how just a little bit of porcini can go just a long way, porcini mushroom, but not too much and it's more expensive than gold.
Jess Hegarty:
Yes. I think it's something crazy, crazy expensive. But yeah, a little bit of the porcini mushroom goes a long way in terms of flavor. But coming back to beans and lime, the biggest takeaway from our calls with Ken was for me to always squeeze fresh lime on beans specifically. I just want to say, listeners, keep limes in your house, squeeze lime on top right before you serve beans. The flavor combination, it is magic. And you see this in Austin at every taco place, burrito place. It always comes with a side of lime and there's a reason for that, it brightens the flavors, as Ken would say.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. What you're doing essentially is, maybe using Ken's words a little bit, is you're squeezing a little bit of sunshine on top of it.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, Rip, did you know, here this comes from the ingredient heroine here, did you know that there's a really important reason you want to eat lime and beans together? It's because... Do you know?
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm going to say the lime does something with the citric acid.
Jess Hegarty:
Good guess, yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
Jess Hegarty:
Well, it's really the vitamin C actually.
Rip Esselstyn:
The vitamin C, yes. So does it do something to bump up the absorption of the iron?
Jess Hegarty:
That's right. Vitamin C of the lime actually boosts the absorption of iron from the beans. So if you're someone like me who might struggle with anemia-
Rip Esselstyn:
Right. And for those who don't know, Jess is pregnant.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah, exactly. Another important factor. I mean, I have my blood tested for iron content pretty regularly these days. So if you're someone who struggles with anemia, remember to squeeze citrus on any iron rich foods you're consuming. I think another great one would be like kale and lemon. There's a lot of iron in kale. Squeeze a little lemon on there, that's a delicious combo too. I think it's interesting. I'm like, "Good job nature." Our taste buds kind of direct us to the flavor combinations that make the most sense for us, which is so cool.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, great sources of iron are greens and beans.
Jess Hegarty:
Greens and beans.
Rip Esselstyn:
Greens and beans. Yep. Power those down and yeah-
Jess Hegarty:
Serve them with citrus.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jess Hegarty:
I love it. I love it. Well, I want to pause for a second and talk about bean consumption here. I actually struggle to eat beans every day. I'll have a good spree, I eat them almost every day, but sometimes I just forget. And if I don't have a batch prepared at home ready to go, they just fall off my radar.
Rip Esselstyn:
You know what's interesting is... So I think between humus, chickpeas, black beans, pinto beans, red lentils, yellow lentils, I feel like we always have one of those lying around the house so I know I'm always getting at least one serving of those a day.
Jess Hegarty:
Good.
Rip Esselstyn:
And when I do my rice and beans extravaganza, like watch out, there's probably three servings of beans on top of that brown rice.
Jess Hegarty:
Yummy. Well, that's what you're supposed to get. I mean, try to get three half cup portions of beans per day if you can for optimal health. That's great. That's on Gregor's Daily Dozen, that's where I'm getting that from. So consuming beans, it wasn't something I worried about until I found out I was expecting. Of course, whenever I tell my doctor or the nurse or whoever that I'm vegan, they're like, "Oh, and where are you getting your protein from?" I want to be more conscientious about my protein intake and it's really my calorie intake because I know if I'm eating enough calories, I'm confident I'm going to get enough protein, but I'm quickly losing space down there and so I have to be really efficient about my food choices.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you mean as you're getting more and more pregnant, is your appetite decreasing?
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah. It's my appetite's there, but I just feel full so fast.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, wow.
Jess Hegarty:
So I actually have had to make a shift and not eat watermelon and eat beans because of-
Rip Esselstyn:
More calorie dense.
Jess Hegarty:
More calorie dense. It's strange. Yeah, more calorie dense these days.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, and beans, obviously they're a stupendous source of protein, of fiber, of calories. Everybody here probably knows about the Blue Zones right-
Jess Hegarty:
Yes. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
And the work of Dan Buettner, who's been on the podcast, season one. But in the Blue Zones... It's interesting. I was having dinner with Dan and a bunch of other people, I said, "Do you know how I remember the five different Blue Zone cultures?" He said, "No, please share." I said, "It's an acronym. It's LIONS. L is Loma Linda, I is Ikaria, Greece, the O is Okinawa, the N is Nicoya in Costa Rica, and then S is Sardinia." He's like, "I never thought of that." He and a couple of other people at dinner said that they go across the world in east to west and that, to me, my brain doesn't work that way.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah, interesting. Okay, LIONS. I'll remember that. Well, it's funny you should bring up Blue Zones, and I actually had that in my notes for today's session, beans are a staple meal in all five of the Blue Zones. It's one of the common dietary threads and people in the Blue Zones eat at least four times as many beans as Americans do on average. Four times. That's clearly a contributor to longevity and studies have found legume consumption to be the single most important dietary predictor of longevity. The results show that for every 20 grams increase in daily bean intake, there was an 8% reduction in risk of death. Isn't that incredible?
Rip Esselstyn:
Incredible, but also to me not surprising. Beans are just so insane.
Jess Hegarty:
They're so good for you. And for this reason, we wanted to make sure to crank up the beans in our recipes. Every one of our chilis and stews has at least two kinds of beans and the Firehouse Chili actually has three. That's right.
Rip Esselstyn:
Three beans, three wonderful beans. Yes. We've got the red kidney beans, we have the black beans and we have the navy beans.
Jess Hegarty:
That's right.
Rip Esselstyn:
All organic.
Jess Hegarty:
All organic, that's right. That's right. Should we talk about our second skew, the white chili?
Rip Esselstyn:
Absolutely.
Jess Hegarty:
Creamy White Chili.
Rip Esselstyn:
Here we go, the Creamy White Bean Chili.
Jess Hegarty:
For people who might be interested in trying it, it's made with a variety of vegetables in a creamy base. What do we have in there? Cannellini beans.
Rip Esselstyn:
Cannellini and navy beans.
Jess Hegarty:
And navy beans. We have some sweet potatoes and cauliflower. We've got the green chilis in there to give it some flavor.
Rip Esselstyn:
And don't forget, the hominy.
Jess Hegarty:
Hominy. I had never used this before. It was a forgotten ingredient.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm embarrassed to say that I had never used hominy before. I knew of hominy, but I didn't realize what a fan I was of it. It's basically like a big ass kernel of corn.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah. I think it's like a corn kernel and a chickpea had a baby. That's what it's like to me. It's a combination. But yeah, it's a forgotten ingredient that I think we need to bring back to recipes. It's a really great whole grain. It's a very mild texture. It has a nice crunch to it. I think it's most commonly used in posoles, but I think it would be great in any soup or anything where it might call for a bean or a whole grain.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jess Hegarty:
And you can find it in the international section of any grocery store. You can find it anywhere, so don't forget about hominy.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes, a very important new ingredient.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah. And the creaminess of this soup actually comes from an unusual place. So of course, we didn't use any diary or no milk, no cheese-
Rip Esselstyn:
No. Never.
Jess Hegarty:
But we didn't use alternative milks either.
Rip Esselstyn:
No.
Jess Hegarty:
We used tahini, which doesn't seem like it would fit with a white chili, but that deluded mild flavor creates this subtle creaminess that's really spread out really well. So home chefs-
Rip Esselstyn:
And just for people that don't know, tahini is basically just... it's ground up sesame seeds.
Jess Hegarty:
Yes, finely ground sesame seeds. Exactly. I think that's my little trick to all you home chefs out there, keep in mind if you want to add a little creaminess to your soups, nut and seed butters in small amounts are a great way to add creaminess to your home cooked soups.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. If I could backtrack just a little bit, one of the things that why we decided to foray into these stews and these chilis, chews, was I was meeting with the category manager at Whole Foods and we were discussing some products that we could go into Whole Foods with. Our Engine Two Veggie Stock was really our top performer of all the Engine's products that we had. She's like, "Rip, I would love to see you take the clean ingredients that you have in here, the low sodium, no added oils, no added sugars, and if you could apply these to some ready meal solutions, chilis, stews and soups", and so that's exactly what we decided to try and do. We felt like there was a white space, a bit of a hole in the market there, and we've been navigating, trying to get these products just right for literally the last 15 months and that's why we're introducing these.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
They're just so important and there's nothing like them out there.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah. No, I think it'll stand out on shelf. I love Amy's, I think they're a great brand. I love some of the ready to eat vegan chilis that are out there, but a lot of them are really high in sodium. I mean, there's a stark contrast. And then to your point about no added sugar, that's commonly added to a lot of stews that are out there, soups that are out there as well, so I'm really proud of the incredible flavor that with Ken's help we got to using these limited ingredients. It's easy to make something taste good when it has butter and sugar and salt and all that stuff, but it's more challenging when you have those limitations.
Rip Esselstyn:
And we like a good challenge.
Jess Hegarty:
We do, we like a good challenge. For sure, for sure. Well, would you like to talk about our Thai Carrot Chickpea Stew.
Rip Esselstyn:
Absolutely. Where's that hiding?
Jess Hegarty:
Here. I think it's this one over here.
Rip Esselstyn:
No. No.
Jess Hegarty:
Oh, you're right. Where'd that come from?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes. Yes, there she blows right there.
Jess Hegarty:
Rip found it. Good job.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jess Hegarty:
So with the stews, we do have more complex flavors. We have all sorts of spices in there. We've got garlic. We've got ginger. We've got galangal, lemongrass, Kaffir limes, all those traditional-
Rip Esselstyn:
Galang who?
Jess Hegarty:
Galangal. Have you seen it in a grocery store?
Rip Esselstyn:
I don't know if I have.
Jess Hegarty:
It looks like a big, bulky ginger. It's like ginger on steroids and it's really hard to chop. If you can find ground galangal or pureed galangal, I would do that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is it kind of in the same neighborhood as turmeric and ginger, in looking like that kind of rooty, funky-
Jess Hegarty:
Yes, exactly. Larger, but yes. It does, it looks like a really big ginger, but it doesn't have a bitter flavor. It adds a really nice flavor without... You can overdo it with ginger and you can definitely overdo it with turmeric.
Rip Esselstyn:
What about with galangal?
Jess Hegarty:
One time we overdid it with galangal, Rip, one time. Oh my gosh.
Rip Esselstyn:
We went through 28, I think it was, iterations to get this just right.
Jess Hegarty:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
And a couple of those iterations, the galangal was through the roof.
Jess Hegarty:
It was like 20X the amount of galangal that we needed. It turned the entire soup brown. When it comes to powdered galangal, I'll say you can absolutely overdo it. That was rough. That was rough.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. But the impetus for this was I love Thai, I love a really good carrot soup and there's a recipe in the Engine Two, it's a Thai Carrot Soup. We kind of used that as the base. I think you were the one that said, "You know what? Let's add some...."
Jess Hegarty:
Beans, right. And this was entire... Talk about little things affecting the future. Evan and I were watching a doctor... We watch Dr. Gregor's videos, nutrition fact starter videos, in our spare time because there's so informative and there was one video where Dr. Gregor compared the antioxidant content of 10 different types of commercial beans; so pinto beans, Lima beans, red kidney beans, black beans, navy beans, red beans, black eyed peas, mung beans, lentils and chickpeas.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Jess Hegarty:
Which do you think came out on top?
Rip Esselstyn:
Let me guess. Only because where this conversation started, I'm going to go back to the all might chickpea.
Jess Hegarty:
It was number two. Chickpea was number two and lentil was number one. I was surprised. I thought it was going to be kidney beans or black beans. When I think antioxidant content, I think about color and richness, so I was supposed to hear that. But yeah, chickpeas were number two, lentils were number one. And I think the reasons that lentils beat out chickpeas was because the nutrients are concentrated in the seed coating. And since the lentils are so small, the ratio of coating to filling is a little bit different.
Rip Esselstyn:
Those sneaky little guys and girls.
Jess Hegarty:
So for this reason, we were inspired to bring in chickpeas and red lentils into our Thai Carrot stew and it officially became Thai Carrot Chickpea.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. It is dynamite.
Jess Hegarty:
Yep. So takeaways for listeners, load up on beans, bonus if they are chickpeas and/or lentils, and put some lime on it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, I do think it's important to let our audience know that this and the Indian stew that we're going to talk about next, the Kitchari, are not technically labeled as organic. Can you speak to that?
Jess Hegarty:
Oh my gosh, so a challenge that was thrown our way. Let's see, we were finished with the packaging, finished with the recipe. We thought it was delicious, got it to a place where we really loved it. We go to submit for USDA Organic Certification and find out... Well, a little bit of background. To get USDA Organic Certification, 95% of your ingredients by volume have to be organic. So if you put together a recipe and the black pepper isn't organic, it's-
Rip Esselstyn:
A little bit of wiggle room.
Jess Hegarty:
A little bit of wiggle room, exactly. So we submitted and we are at, I think with the Thai Carrot Chickpea, 99.97% organic by volume.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yep.
Jess Hegarty:
But the galangal-
Rip Esselstyn:
The galangal, the lemongrass and the Kaffir lime leaves.
Jess Hegarty:
Yes, which means in very small amounts-
Rip Esselstyn:
All of them are almost the last ingredients in the deck.
Jess Hegarty:
Yes, very small amounts. Those were not on the FDA's list of improved exception ingredients. So black pepper is, some of those more common ingredients are... But because these were so obscure, they didn't make the list of FDA's acceptable ingredients. So because we have them in there, we cannot get USDA Organic Certification.
Rip Esselstyn:
But it's safe to say, this is by volume 99.7% organic.
Jess Hegarty:
Yes, 99.97%.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, 97.
Jess Hegarty:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, yes.
Jess Hegarty:
Really high percentage, more organic than some other things that probably have USDA Organic on there. And we ran into the same issue with our Indian Lentil Stew as well.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of which.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah. Let's talk about this one. This is the one that I will be purchasing, this is the one that I'll be coming home with.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wait, wait, wait, you're going to be coming home with all of them.
Jess Hegarty:
I'm going to be coming home with all of them. This is probably the one I will consume most frequently I should say. It also has the most interesting back story to how it came about. Kitchari has been one of my favorite recipes since I learned about what it was and I like it because-
Rip Esselstyn:
When did you learn about it?
Jess Hegarty:
I learned about it while I was at Whole Foods from one of their health coaches, their healthy eating team members.
Rip Esselstyn:
Because I can't believe that I have never heard of Kitchari, that I've never had it either.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah. It's referred to as the chicken soup of India. So if you're not feeling well, you have an upset stomach and you live in India, your mom's probably going to make you Kitchari. And Kitchari means mixture. In this case, it's a mixture of yellow split peas, red lentils and brown jasmine rice, which I love. It's considered to be a very healing, comforting food. Of course, and you add in all of the spices like the turmeric and the ginger. We've got coriander and cumin and fenugreek and fennel. It's just really... You feel better after you eat it. It's amazing.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. It is and I can remember I invited you and Evan, I think it was a hot, hot day. I was like, "You guys come over this weekend, Saturday or Sunday, and come swimming." We have a nice little pool in our backyard. You guys came over and you were such incredible guests and you brought us dinner. Not only did you bring us dinner, you brought us this huge massive bowl of Kitchari. I think you also had a side of limes.
Jess Hegarty:
Yep.
Rip Esselstyn:
You also had a side of... I think it was-
Jess Hegarty:
Sweet potatoes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Sweet potato. I almost think you had steamed greens.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah or broccoli. I can't remember which one.
Rip Esselstyn:
But after the swim, we all went into the kitchen and we dove in. And I kid you not, the kids were going gaga goo goo crazy over it. We demolished it and we're like, "Next weekend, we want you guys to come over and swim again and bring the Kitchari."
Jess Hegarty:
Yes. I remember. I remember. I think the next time we went to your house, one of your little ones was like, "Did you bring Kitchari?" Maybe they asked for it. Do you remember?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, it was Sophie.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jess Hegarty:
I mean, there was a little bit of an ulterior motive there, Rip. It wasn't just us being nice. No, I don't know.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you knew that you were working on the stew and the chews development and you wanted this as an option.
Jess Hegarty:
Well, we wanted you to approve of anything that we were doing with product development, but knowing the health benefits of lentils, knowing how incredibly delicious and nutritious this recipe was, I think your hangup at the time with pursuing this route is, justifiably, nobody knows what a Kitchari is. It was the name right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Good point. I feel like if we would have called it Kitchari, it would have gotten a little bit overlooked on the shelf.
Jess Hegarty:
I think you're right. I think you're right.
Rip Esselstyn:
We came to what I think is a really great kind of compromise.
Jess Hegarty:
Yep. Yep. The genius of Indian Lentil Stew.
Rip Esselstyn:
So on the very, very top, it says Kitchari and then bigger letters it says Indian Lentil Stew and so everybody got their way.
Jess Hegarty:
Yes, exactly.
Rip Esselstyn:
And now, we speak because being the heroine of healthy ingredients, will you speak to the I think it's the black pepper and the-
Jess Hegarty:
Turmeric.
Rip Esselstyn:
And the turmeric that we strategically have in the Kitchari?
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah. There are two things that I want to bring up about this product or the recipe, which we'll get to in a second because we're going to share that information with people as well. The first thing is the intentional use of turmeric with black pepper. Turmeric, as we know, it's known for its anti-inflammatory properties of its key ingredient curcumin and pepper is an important complimentary ingredient to turmeric because of piperine, a compound in black pepper. It actually enhances curcumin absorption by 2,000%. I mean, it really boosts absorption in the body.
Rip Esselstyn:
2,000%.
Jess Hegarty:
So vitamin C helps boost iron absorption and piperine, which is in black pepper, helps boosts absorption of curcumin.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow and that's in the turmeric.
Jess Hegarty:
That's in the turmeric, exactly.
Rip Esselstyn:
Isn't nature just astounding?
Jess Hegarty:
It is. Yeah, so if you're making anything with turmeric, make sure... you just need a little black pepper. And turmeric in particular, in the ingredient I'm going to talk about next, contain large quantities of salicylic acid, which is the main ingredient in asprin, so consuming a teaspoon of turmeric gives you the same amount of salicylic acid as a baby asprin.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now wonder this is the chicken noodle soup of India.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah, right. I thought about the Bayer Asprin campaign where it was like take one daily to prevent a heart attack because of how it, I guess, thins your blood. That's what asprin does, it's a natural blood thinner. Well, I don't think you need to take asprin, I think you should just have a little turmeric with black pepper.
Rip Esselstyn:
Very important.
Jess Hegarty:
Very important.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Anything else on the Kitchari?
Jess Hegarty:
Oh, yes. So the reason we didn't get Organic Certification is because we absolutely had to include one key ingredient.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, is this because of Ken Rubin or is this because of your husband?
Jess Hegarty:
This is, again, because of Gregor. I was inspired by, I was reading the book How Not to Diet and one of the things that he talks about is black cumin, so it's not actually related to cumin. It has a peppery flavor. It's used in Indian and Middle Eastern cuisines for centuries. It's known for its medicinal qualities and was actually found in places like King Tut's tomb.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Jess Hegarty:
It's known for its health properties and there are over 1,000 research papers published on this ingredient. A typical dose is one to two grams per day, which is about a quarter of a teaspoon. And what's great about all of these studies is that the black cumin can easily be consumed in capsule form, which enables researchers to do the gold standard randomized, double blind placebo controlled studies. So results from these studies showed that daily black cumin consumption improves cholesterol, improves triglycerides, improves blood pressure, blood sugar control and even facilitates weight loss.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow, not much to not like about black cumin.
Jess Hegarty:
Absolutely.
Rip Esselstyn:
And I find that it also has a really wonderful flavor and a little bit goes a long way. I remember we had a couple where we had too much black cumin.
Jess Hegarty:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
And we had to dial it back. I think we've arrived at the Goldilocks' version of black cumin in our Kitchari and it is dynamite.
Jess Hegarty:
It is. It is dynamite, for sure.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's just so unique.
Jess Hegarty:
It is. Well, so we have the Indian Lentil Stew that's hopefully at your nearest Whole Foods at this point in time, but one thing I want to end with is talking about open source recipes for PLANTSTRONG. I know that this is one of our internal philosophies. We're really an education company. Yes, we sell food, but all of this was inspired by the book that you wrote to educate others about the importance of healthy eating and diet for performance and diet for taking back control of your health and diet for the environment. I mean, these are all important so we want to educate and provide resources for anybody who's interested in eating this way, eating a plant-based diet. The recipe that really inspired this and is very similar to what you're going to find on shelf, we're going to post that in the show notes. We made a video a few months back with me and Evan. It was the first time I ever did a video for PLANTSTRONG, you can tell I'm a little bit nervous in it, where we make the Kitchari from scratch and then we talk about ways to make the leftover Kitchari and turn it into Kitchari tacos or put it with sweet potatoes and broccoli or how to doctor it up to make it really delicious.
Rip Esselstyn:
Super versatile.
Jess Hegarty:
Super versatile. But yeah, we wanted to share that with our audience.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So are we are going to have it in the show notes?
Jess Hegarty:
Yes, we will. We'll link to that video.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wonderful. Another interesting thing about the Kitchari is that when we brought it up to Ken Rubin-
Jess Hegarty:
Oh, my gosh.
Rip Esselstyn:
Ken actually mentioned that it's one of his favorite all time dishes and he has it once-
Jess Hegarty:
Every week. Every week.
Rip Esselstyn:
Every week in his household.
Jess Hegarty:
Yeah. I remember that meeting.
Rip Esselstyn:
And it all of a sudden, I think it gave us such validation that this was something absolutely worth doping.
Jess Hegarty:
Yes, I remember that. We called him up, we said, "Ken, we're thinking about doing a Kitchari. What do you think?" And he was like, "We make that in our household every week. I can't believe nobody's brought it to the market yet."
Rip Esselstyn:
Yep.
Jess Hegarty:
We're like, "Oh, all right. Well, maybe we're on to something." Great. Great.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, Jess, this has been fabulous as usual. You are just such a... I love the thoroughness and the due diligence that you do-
Jess Hegarty:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
With every ingredient that we talk about and it's just such a joy having you. I also want to thank you, and this is kind of going full swing back to the beginning of the podcast today, I want to thank you for always showing up-
Jess Hegarty:
Oh, thanks Rip.
Rip Esselstyn:
And bringing your best.
Jess Hegarty:
Thank you. Yes, I'll continue to do so because we have such great motivation. I'm so grateful to be a part of this, Rip. Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Hey, PLANTSTRONG.
Jess Hegarty:
Until next time, keep it PLANTSTRONG.
Rip Esselstyn:
All right.
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