#191: Richard Marx - 🎸🌱 Rocking the PLANTSTRONG Life 🎸🌱
Visit RichardMarx.com for tour dates, new releases, and more
You know those times when you see someone and you just think, "WOW, You look incredible! What are you doing?!"
That happened with today's guest, grammy award winner, and multiplatinum recording artist, Richard Marx.
We at PLANTSTRONG saw recent photos and videos of Richard lighting up the stage in Australia and just had to know the secret to his vitality and energy.
Well, wouldn't ya know, Richard Marx is PLANTSTRONG, baby, and, together with his wife Daisy Fuentes, they share a passion and advocacy for this lifestyle.
Of course, you know Richard from some of his biggest hits, “Hold Onto The Night,” “Endless Summer Nights,” “Don’t Mean Nothing,” and “Right Here Waiting,” BUT, in addition to those timeless chart-toppers, he is also a crazy accomplished songwriter – having written hits with stars like Keith Urban, Kenny Loggins, Madonna, NSYNC, Luther Vandross, and so many more.
Today, we talk about his colorful and illustrious musical journey and the emotional moment he and Daisy looked at each other and said, “We’re going all in on plant-based living.”
His only regret? They didn’t do it sooner.
That’s ok, Richard and Daisy. We’ve been “Right Here Waiting for You.”
About Richard Marx
Grammy-winning singer, songwriter, producer and best-selling author Richard Marx has sold more than 30 million albums worldwide, landing a #1 song on the charts (for himself and others) in each of the past four decades. He remains the only male artist in history whose first seven singles reached the Top 5 on the Billboard charts. A father to three grown sons (all are musicians), he lives between LA and Miami with his wife Daisy Fuentes. Marx is active in many charitable organizations, including the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, the American Cancer Society, St. Jude’s Children’s Research Hospital, and Mercy for Animals.
Episode Highlights
5:45 Richard is a fan-boy of Dr. Esselstyn!
7:15 Touring and eating plant-based around the world - Yep, he loves his Happy Cow app!
9:30 Getting paid for the 22 hours he’s not on stage
11:30 What was the pivotal moment when Richard and Daisy went all-in on plant-based eating?
21:00 Why he loves playing small towns
22:19 The magical moment when Lionel Richie invited Richard to his studio
27:50 How Richard inherited the best traits from his Mom and Dad
35:04 Hitting the son jackpot and some of his legendary musical collaborations with Kenny Loggins, Kenny Rogers, Burt Bachrach, and more!
44:00 How ego goes out the door when collaborating with other songwriters
45:40 “How a Man Thinketh” - how this book helped him clean up his thoughts and shift his life for the better
48:56 Any routines of suspicions before he hits the stage?
53:05 Does Richard have insurance on his voice?
54:40 A love child of Rod Stewart and Bryan Adams?!
58:50 Richard and Rip’s favorite features about themselves
1:01:55 Becoming a hip grandfather who’s digging TikTok!
1:07:10 The experience and romance of cooking with Daisy
1:08:10 His favorite breakfasts and his favorite beans (Yep - he’s a bean dude)
1:12:10 Why it’s important for them to be vocal advocates of this lifestyle
1:17:20 His current favorite TV shows
1:21:00 What does he think happens to us when we die?
Episode Resources
Richard Marx Website - https://richardmarx.com/
Richard Marx Instagram - @therichardmarx
Watch the Episode on YouTube - https://youtu.be/-lNOUqKP-TM
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Full YouTube Transcript
Rip Esselstyn:
Hey there PlantStrong Pod Squad. We have just announced our fall 2023 PLANTSTRONG retreat in incredible Sedona, Arizona. And I want to personally invite you to join us in a memorable week steeped in intimate connection, deep discussions, bountiful plant-based buffets, restful recharge, and lots and lots of laughs. Let us do all the cooking while you sit back and press the reset button. Visit plantstrong.com, and click the Sedona retreat from the main menu, or send us an email@eventsplantstrong.com and we'll be sure to send you all the details. I hope to see you soon in the Red Rocks of Sedona, Arizona.Richard Marx:
Ever since we started our plant-based journey about eight years ago, your dad is sort of a rockstar in our house. He's so featured in so many of the things that, not just us, but I think that when you're taking that step and you're really getting into it, he just pops up and he's sort of this voice of reason and a very comforting figure to pay attention to and trust. And if he's involved in something, it lends tremendous credibility. And then because of that, we became aware of your sister and you. So I'm thrilled to be chatting with you.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm Rip Esselstyn and welcome to the PlantStrong podcast. The mission at PLANTSTRONG is to further the advancement of all things within the plant-based movement. We advocate for the scientifically proven benefits of plant-based living and envision a world that universally understands, promotes and prescribes plants as a solution to empowering your health, enhancing your performance, restoring the environment, and becoming better guardians to the animals we share this planet with. We welcome you wherever you are on your PLANTSTRONG journey, and I hope that you enjoy the show.
My rockstar guest today likely needs no introduction because he has been on the music charts since the 1980s when he was 18 years old. In fact, you may know Richard Marx from some of his biggest hits, like "Hold onto the Night", "Don't mean Nothing", "Endless Summer Nights", and "Right Here Waiting". He's the only male artist in history to have his first seven singles reach the top five of the Billboard charts, and three of those were number ones. But in addition to those timeless chart toppers, he's also a crazy accomplished songwriter having written hits with stars like Keith Urban, Kenny Loggins, Madonna, NSYNC, Luther Vandross, and many more. Recently, my podcast producer saw some photos and videos of his recent tour down under in Australia, and she was like, "Hmm, my goodness, he looks so incredible, so vibrant, so full of energy on stage. I just wonder if he might be plant-based."
Sure enough, she did a little digging and it didn't take long for her to learn that Richard and to boot, his wife, Daisy Fuentes, are both Plant Strong baby. And I just had to talk with him about it all and what a beautiful conversation this is. Today he shares the pivotal moment when he and Daisy decided to go all in Plant Strong. He also talks about his favorite meals and why it's important to be vocal advocates of something that they believe in so much. Of course, I couldn't pass up the opportunity to talk about his music career and some of the magical moments and experiences he's had over the last 40 plus years. What a gracious and thoughtful human he is. I know you're going to love it as much as I did. Please welcome Richard Marx. All right. Hey, Richard Marx, I want to thank you for being on the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. Really appreciate it.
Richard Marx:
Rip, it's my pleasure, man.
Rip Esselstyn:
So Richard, I have to tell you how we kind of stumbled upon having you on the podcast. So my podcast producer, Carrie Barrett, she has a good friend who said that she just saw you in Australia. I guess you were on tour there. And so Carrie was flipping through your Instagram and she's like, "My God, this guy looks like a million bucks. How can he be so good looking and almost be 60 years old?"Richard Marx:
It's the filters, man.
Rip Esselstyn:
And so I kid you not, she's like, "I bet you he's plant-based/vegan." And so she did a little research, found out, she obviously emailed your publicist, and then you agreed to come on the show. So thank you.
Richard Marx:
Well, it's a pleasure to talk to you, Rip. And Daisy, my wife and I both follow you. But I'm sure you've heard this before, but ever since we started our plant-based journey about eight years ago, your dad is sort of a rockstar in our house. He's so featured in so many of the things that, not just us, but I think that when you're taking that step and you're really getting into it, he just pops up and he's sort of this voice of reason and a very comforting figure to pay attention to and trust. If he's involved in something, it lends tremendous credibility. And then because of that, we became aware of your sister and you. So I'm thrilled to be chatting with you.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, well thanks. And I can tell you that, yeah, my father, he's got such an amazing sense of ethics, of honesty, and just authenticity, very stoic, but also very courageous to be such a disruptor and good on this path. Back in 1984, he started his research, so I've always looked at him as one of my big heroes in my life.
Richard Marx:
That's great.
Rip Esselstyn:
So thank you for mentioning that for sure. You just finished a tour in Australia. How was it down under?
Richard Marx:
I think it was... I've lost count, but I'm going to guess that this tour was my 12th tour there over since I started back in 1911, 12th or 13th. And now that doesn't account for all the times I've been there to do promotional stuff or television shows, or I've actually spent time in Australia just hanging out. And a dear friend of mine who's a sort of legend in Australia is a singer named John Farnham, the biggest selling recording artist in the history of Australia. He and I became friends many years ago, and I went and wrote some songs with him for an album he did years ago. And so I've spent a lot of time there. I have a lot of friends there. Daisy had never been to Australia when she met me 10 years ago, and now this was her fourth trip there. So I go there a lot. This tour, I don't know, Rip, there was something... I can't even put my finger on what was different, but there was just sort of extra.
It's always great to play in Australia. They're some of the best fans in the world. As you go around the world, there are certain places where... Japan, for example, they're great fans, they're loyal fans, but they aren't generally wild. I think part of it is the culture. They're not the kind of audiences who generally push up to the front of the stage and get up and dance and scream and whistle, and that's the kind of audience I love the most. South America does that. They're wild, they're crazy, but Australia's always a party. And there was just some extra level of awesomeness on this tour. It was just a total joy. We did nine cities, nine shows, and it was just the best.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, and you've been doing this since, what, 1987? Is that when you first started?
Richard Marx:
Yeah, that's when I started touring.
Rip Esselstyn:
And has it lost any of its luster when you're up there? Is it magical, is it work? What is it?
Richard Marx:
It's all those things. It's a job, but it's the best job. I think I have the best job in the world. And I've said this for many years, I get paid for the 22 hours that I'm not on stage. The two hour show is always a blast, even if there are technical issues or things happen. In any profession, there are ups and downs, or there are highs and lows. I'm never not aware of how good I have it. And the fact that after, Jesus, 37 years, whatever, since I've been doing this almost, well, 36 years, for me to still be able to tour around the world, to still have the opportunity to put out new music through a major label, I'm a very lucky guy.
I'm very, very grateful for my career, maybe now more than ever. But it's also, I'm at a point in my life, and in my career, but in my life particularly where I don't take any of it as seriously as I used to. It's just so fun. And so there's just a lot of joy surrounding what I do when I'm on the road. Daisy's with me most of the time. I've got a really great crew. I do a lot of shows solo acoustic, so a lot of times I'm on the road, it's just me and my tour manager and my sound guy. But when I'm out with the band in Australia, again, it's a really wonderful unit of great human beings. And so it's not just the work that we're getting done, it's the hang, we're having fun. I have a martini on stage every night, and I'm just having a blast. And this was an amazing tour.
NOTE FOR READER: Audio quality changed for a brief moment
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm going to just cut for a second. It seems like something happened to our audio, Carrie.
Richard Marx:
Oh wait, it cut out. I lost your audio.
Speaker 1:
I didn't get that. Could you try again?
Richard Marx:
Oh, hang on.
Speaker 2:
It's almost like your mic switched to speaker.
Richard Marx:
No, what happened was that I must have said something that sounded like SIRI and she just jumped in.
Speaker 1:
She did. That's what happened.
Richard Marx:
She's so nosy.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:
So you were waxing poetic and neither one of us wanted to interrupt.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, no, no, no. Hey, this is all going. This is what happens on the road, happens just... It's all right.
Speaker 2:
All right. I'm going to disappear again.
NOTE FOR READER: AND we’re back to normal audio
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So how long were you in Australia, about a month?
Richard Marx:
This tour was a little over three weeks. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. Now, after a three week tour, are you toast? Do you have to wind down for a couple weeks?
Richard Marx:
No, generally after a three week tour, couple days and I'm ready to go do the next. But this is the sort of culmination of a pretty much nonstop seven months. Starting the end of last summer, I went to Europe and played 27 shows in Europe over a couple of months, and then came home for a week and then did a bunch of us dates. It's been a crazy amount of touring in the last six or seven months. And I'll be honest with you, for the first time in my life, I said to a couple of my friends, I was like, "This is a little harder at 59 than it was at 29. I'm not going to lie."
Rip Esselstyn:
I can't imagine that it wouldn't have been. But you are a plant strong, right?
Richard Marx:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
And so I'd love for you to share with the audience, what was it that I think you said it was about seven years ago, eight years ago, that kind of really cemented in your mind that, you know what, this is a lifestyle that I want to check out?
Richard Marx:
Well, I'll try to give you the Reader's Digest version of my journey. It was a little bit easier transition for me than Daisy, for example, my wife. My wife was born in Havana, and moved to Spain when she was three. Lived in Spain until she was about 11. And then she grew up in New Jersey. And she grew up, like a lot of Cubans, a heavy meat eater. That was a big staple of her diet. And she's a foodie. She's a great cook. I stopped eating red meat when I was 18 years old. I don't exactly remember why. It wasn't like anything called out to me to stop eating red meat. I think it was really more accidental. The year I moved away, I graduated from high school, I had planned to go to college, and then I got an opportunity to come to LA and work with Lionel Richie on his first solo album.
And it sort of was the beginning of my career, and I moved from Chicago to LA. And I think it was really just a function of being so busy that I wasn't eating much of anything running from session to session, and just the newness of being out away from home for the first time. And I think it had been a month or so, and I realized that I hadn't had any red meat. I wasn't a huge meat eater, but I'd have a burger or a patty melt, whatever. But I realized that I hadn't eaten any red meat in about a month, and I could tell that I felt better. And this was at 18, and I was pretty fit, I was pretty healthy. Didn't think much of it. One day, soon after that, I ordered a burger somewhere and I thought I was going to die. I had horrible stomach cramps. And I just thought, "You know what? That tells me everything I need to know. I'm going to not eat any red meat."
And so I cut red meat out. Soon, maybe it was another few years, I slowly cut out poultry. And then for about the next 25 years, I was pescatarian. And the reason that I went from pescatarian to plant-based was Daisy and I had seen several documentaries, some of which your father is in. You guys are a big part of a lot of these great documentaries that it piqued our curiosity about going plant-based. But for me, the pescatarian that the thing that put me over the edge was this movie called Blackfish. And it's not even really about health or diet, it's an expose on Sea World and the orcas and the treatment of these whales, these beautiful creatures. And I was watching this, and there's a particular moment... You've seen it, right, Rip?
Rip Esselstyn:
I have, yeah.
Richard Marx:
There's a particular moment in the movie where they pluck a baby orca out of the water, and the family of the whales won't disperse, and they start crying, literally wailing. That's the term. And it's a really emotional tear jerking moment. And it clicked in that moment when I was watching this movie, I'm feeling so horrible for this family of species and I said to myself, "What's the difference between this and the salmon that I ate last night at the restaurant?" That was the moment for me. It was like, "I can't participate in this anymore." And so Daisy was ready to make that transition too. So literally that night we just said, "Yeah, we're going plant-based now and see how that goes." And we never looked back.
Rip Esselstyn:
And so no major challenges for the most part since you had kind of been heading in this direction since 18?
Richard Marx:
Not for me. It was a little... It wasn't really tough for Daisy. It was a little more tough. It was a little more of an adjustment for her. Like I said, she's a foodie. And one of the challenges for her that went from a challenge to a journey and an adventure was replacing her favorite dishes as a chef with plant-based alternatives. And so all of a sudden our meals went from, I was not participating in it, but our meals went from me having fish with veggies and stuff like that to a beautiful eggplant parm, but without real cheese and just substituting things and trying things.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you don't mind eggplant?
Richard Marx:
I love eggplant.
Rip Esselstyn:
Actually, that's one of the plant-based foods I cannot stomach.
Richard Marx:
Really?
Rip Esselstyn:
The texture, the consistency, I find it is just spongy, almost no flavor. It's kind of like tofu like that, maybe it takes on the flavor. But oh yeah, yeah.
Richard Marx:
Well, I think about it. I don't think I've ever just eaten a piece of eggplant by itself, so I would probably concur with you on that. But whether it's at home when she's cooking or when we're out at restaurants. Being in LA, it's a little easier. We have it easy here because it's just a place where there's so many places that offer great plant-based alternatives. Even a place like Nobu, which is really famous for its fish. Back in the day, one of my favorite things that Nobu was this yellowtail carpaccios and this amazing sauce that they used, which the sauce was plant-based, but... And now when we go, they just substitute with avocado.
And I know that fish eaters would be like, "Dude, that's not a substitute." Yeah, it is. It's delicious. And I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. That's really the most interesting thing. And I want to know... I don't really know your journey, so I don't know how old you were or if you've always been plant-based, but a lot of people who I talk to about this, they still say, "Oh, but I really miss this, or I really miss that." I don't miss anything. There's nothing that I think about, "Oh, I wish I could still eat that," that's not plant-based.
Rip Esselstyn:
Most people, it's cheese. A lot of the manly guys are like, "It's my steak." I was actually just out in LA for the Expo West, and I was staying with a friend, and there's an Italian restaurant right across from Wood's, I think it's called Wood's, Woody Harrelson's new little place.
Richard Marx:
Oh yeah, yeah, I read about it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Anyway, it was crazy good. All vegan. Spectacular. Yeah, you're right. The options in LA are kind of...
Richard Marx:
We got it pretty easy. Interestingly enough, Australia was challenging this time. Even in 2023, Australia was a challenge for us.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm surprised to hear that because Australians, to me, seem like a population that have really embraced this plant-based movement.
Richard Marx:
They have. But there's a difference between... I guess it's just we're a little spoiled here. Or when you go to New York or Austin, I know is pretty... You guys have good options. There weren't a lot of good restaurants. Here's the other thing is that I like to go out, Daisy and I like to go out and have a meal that has ambiance and a bar. And as Daisy says, so many vegan restaurants look like prison cafeterias. We feel like we're being punished a little bit sometimes. So that was a little bit of a challenge. But we found... One of my best friends in Australia is a TV host there named David Campbell. He and his wife have been plant-based for years. He did it for health reasons. He lost a ton of weight and got really fit through adopting a plant-based diet. So they took us to this really amazing place. But you kind of got to know people who know the right places. It's like anywhere else.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. You ever use, there's an app called Happy Cow?
Richard Marx:
Use it all the time.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right, I would imagine. And I've actually used it in Europe and Poland, and it's worked extremely well.
Richard Marx:
It works well. I still tour. I don't just play the major cities, I still play a lot of what we call tertiary, secondary markets. I play small towns. If they have a beautiful venue, I'll go. And my joke is sometimes I'm in a town just outside of Wichita, Kansas, and I'll open up Happy Cow, and Happy Cow will be, "Get in your car and drive six hours because you're out of luck here, bro."
Rip Esselstyn:
So is that intentional that you're playing some of these smaller cities?
Richard Marx:
I always have.
Rip Esselstyn:
I think that's remarkable.
Richard Marx:
I've got nothing against major city audiences, because it depends on where you go. I've never played for a New York City audience that wasn't-
Richard Marx:
... From where you go. I've never played for a New York City audience that wasn't mental and great, but there's something about smaller towns that they just seem to be a little bit more appreciative. And I love playing the towns that don't get a lot of concerts, as long as the business part of it has worked out and that it all makes sense, I am totally happy, just as happy to go and play in Fargo as I am Minneapolis or New York City or you know what I mean? I just love to play. And if I'm out on the road, I want to do as many shows as we can line up.
PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:23:04]
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, next month you're going to be in my neck of the woods. You're about 40 miles down the road in New Braunfels.
Richard Marx:
Right. Which I'd never heard of until this gig.
Rip Esselstyn:
Very cool place.
Richard Marx:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Very cool place.
Richard Marx:
Yeah, I've heard great things about it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. But when I heard that, I was like, I wonder why he's coming to New Braunfels and not Austin or San Marcos or something. And there you go. Good, good stuff. New Braunfels will be absolutely starstruck and excited. It'll be awesome.
Richard Marx:
I can't wait.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned Lionel Richie that he kind of discovered you or noticed something in you that he thought was pretty unique. What do you think that was back at 18 that when he invited you to go out to LA with him? Do you think it was the sound of your voice, your charisma, what?
Richard Marx:
The sound of my voice. It wasn't charisma because I didn't know that I had any particularly. I hadn't performed or anything like that. I was just beginning. I'd only written a handful of songs. I think what I'm about to say, says so much more about him than me. This is 1981. I was graduating from high school. It was my senior year of high school. And I had written a handful of songs that I was lucky enough to get demos recorded that sounded pretty good for the time. But I was still just a newbie. And I had sent my tape, it used to be cassettes, out to different record companies. Got no response or rejections.
I knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew the Commodores organization. He was just leaving the Commodores and striking out in his solo career. And somebody got my cassette tape to him. And in 1981, he was maybe next to Michael Jackson, the biggest star in the world, the biggest artist in the world. And the fact that he took the time to listen to my cassette tape. And then on the back, I had written in pencil my phone number, and he called my parents' number.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Richard Marx:
Talked to me for 20 minutes and just was so encouraging and said, "Man, I hear a lot of tapes and you're really good, and what do you think you want to do?" And I was like, "Well, I want to be a songwriter. I want to be an artist." And he goes, "Well, you can't do that in Chicago, man. You got to come to LA. And I don't know what your plans are, but if you ever get out here, look me up." And when I graduated from high school, my father and I went out to LA to find me a place to live, find an apartment. And I called him and he was making his first album. And he invited my father and me down to the studio. And he had said to me, "Look, I don't know how I can help you other than just sort of encourage you." He said, "I don't have any work for you. I'm making an album."
It wasn't like, "Hey, come to the studio and sing on my record." I was sitting there with my father just watching. And they happened to be doing background vocals on a song called You Are, which became a huge hit for him. And he was struggling with the blend. He wasn't hearing what he wanted to hear. He kept changing parts. And I could see he was getting a little frustrated. And finally he was sort of standing there. I was sitting in, if you've ever been in a proper studio, there's a big room where you do the recording and there's a big glass window, and inside it's called the control room, and that's where the engineer sits.
And I was sitting there on this couch with my dad, and Lionel looked through the glass and he pointed me, he goes, "Come here." And I did one of those like... And he said, "Come out here and try this part." And he put me on the mic with these other two singers. And he'd never really heard me sing other than the tape that I had done. This was a leap of faith. And he went in the control room and he countered us off and we sang the chorus and he went, "That's the sound I need." And boom, I had a job. Like he said, "Come back every day, man." And he said, "Even if I can't use you as a singer, you're welcome to be here." And I went to the studio every day and I just learned about recording and producing. And I could sit here for hours and just tell you story after story about Lionel Richie and how gracious and generous he is. And my life would look a whole lot different if I hadn't met him.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, isn't it interesting how it seems like a lot of us have been fortunate enough to have somebody that saw something in us that maybe we didn't see, or they kind of helped us along the way and it changed the trajectory of our paths?
Richard Marx:
A hundred percent.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I know for me, well, there were several people, but one of them was John Mackey, the CEO of Whole Food Market stores that read my first book, The Engine Two Diet, and then invited me to come be a healthy eating ambassador for Whole Food Market stores and start this food line. This is back in 2008, 2009, and I was a firefighter at the time.
Richard Marx:
I know.
Rip Esselstyn:
It completely changed the course of my life.
Richard Marx:
But you talk about taking a brave step. I mean, on one hand, yes, you can say that that was a pretty bold, badass move. On the other hand, I think because of you being a firefighter and what we all perceive that world to be, it was so different and so almost like square peg in a round hole that it was like, wait, what? Who wrote this book? Who's promoting a plant-based diet? And I think that that was a part of the hook that certainly made me pay attention.
Rip Esselstyn:
No. It was one of the reasons why I was fortunate enough to be able to get on the morning shows and the Today's Show and all that stuff, because what? A Texas is promoting tofu instead of beef? Come on. What's the story with this?
Richard Marx:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Now, if you don't mind, I'm fascinated. I'd love to talk a little bit more kind of about your career. So you grew up in Chicago. If I'm not mistaken, your mother was a singer and your dad had a business where he wrote jingles. Is that right?
Richard Marx:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
So I mean, it sounds to me like you took the best of your mother and your father, the singer and being a writer of songs, and you blended those together.
Richard Marx:
Yeah, I mean, a hundred percent. And it's one of those things where I never experienced as a kid, I never went through that what do I want to be when I grow up? I just knew from the minute I could make noise, the minute I was babbling and couldn't even form complete sentences, I was singing along to whatever was on the radio. And my parents realized when I was two, three years old that I was singing in tune. I had a sense of pitch. What became of that, who knew what it was going to be? But there was never a question for me of be of doing anything else. I loved music more than anything. I loved listening to records and studying songs and memorizing songs.
Plus my parents, even though they weren't in the record business. And my father didn't really quote "write songs," he wrote 30 and 6 second hits that sold products. And that talent, that particular talent is very rare. And to get it right and to be successful at it for decades as he was, was really pretty remarkable. But you know what it was? And I don't think I was conscious of it at the time, but in retrospect, I just remember both my parents, but particularly my father, couldn't wait to go to work every day. And I think I sensed that. And I remember just feeling happy that he was so happy doing what he was doing. And maybe there was something in me that thought, whatever I end up doing, I want to leave my house every day looking forward to getting where I'm going.
And my father talked incessantly about how much he loved what he did. And my mom was a great singer. And the fact that they got to sort of do this family business was really cool. And I started singing on the commercials when I was about five or six years old and grew up in a recording studio. So the transition for me to finally move out to LA, like when I walked into that recording studio with Lionel Richie, had I never been in a recording studio, everything might have been different. But I had a training. I was as comfortable behind that microphone in that studio as I could be. I was nervous and I knew there was a lot riding on this, but at least my surroundings weren't unfamiliar and I didn't feel like a fish out of water. But yeah, I think that growing up around two parents who were that talented, and you're right, blending... Because my father couldn't sing. He really frustrated at him. He was a terrible singer. And my mother couldn't write. So that was a great combo that I think I sort of embodied.
Rip Esselstyn:
Did they both get to see the phenomenal success that you were able to achieve?
Richard Marx:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I just lost my mom about a year and a half ago. And she had a really good run. She was just about 86. And my dad unfortunately died when I was 33. He was 73, but it was a car accident and it was just awful. And he was thriving. He was healthy and still working and loving life. That was really a hard time for me. Not only did they see my success, they participated in it in that I would have my mother come and sing background vocals sometimes on my records. And my father, he was this amazing jingle composer, but he was a brilliant orchestrator, conductor, arranger. And so he did arrangements on quite a few of my records.
But the biggest hit, I had this song that was a big hit for me in the 90s called Now and Forever, and it's a really simple ballad, acoustic guitar, but with a string quartet. And my father arranged the string quartet. And we even did that song on Jay Leno and back in the days of Arsenio Hall, and we did TV shows together where my dad's behind me conducting the strings. So yeah, we got to share in that. It was quite a gift.
Rip Esselstyn:
And two songs that you, I think you've recently written, and I don't know if they were on Songwriter or not, Slipped Away and Thanks To You were to your mother, correct? Or no?
Richard Marx:
No, those are older songs, but Slipping Away was about my sons actually. My sons are two and three years apart. So when they were like 13, 12, and 10, I don't know, something occurred to me that they were all going to grow up soon and leave the house. And I sort of had a wait, what, kind of thing. And so I wrote Slipping Away. And that song was never like a radio hit or anything, but people who supported me by my albums, I've had so many letters and messages about that song from parents who go, "Man, that just killed me." Because you can't stop your kids from growing up and leaving. And they have to. And you want that. You want them to thrive and go out in the world and everything. But you're sort of left behind and that song's really about that.
But Thanks To You, I wrote as a Mother's Day present to my mom about, I don't know, 15, 16 years ago. And it was really just a gift for her. And I had the lyrics engraved in a thing that I framed for her. And she of course cherished it and was very moved by it. But I had not ever performed it live in any concert. And I did during the pandemic, I did a couple of those, people were doing virtual concerts we were doing... And I knew that my mom's days were numbered. She'd been fighting cancer for years and she'd really been thriving, really remarkable. She was such a badass. But it was finally, we knew that the end was nearing. And so I did it in this virtual concert. And so I came to her bedside and propped up the screen after we did it. And so she got to see it. But I write songs that are very personal. I've written songs about my parents. I've written songs about my sons, women in my lives, obviously. That's kind of where you draw the inspiration.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. You talk about how with your sons you hit the son jackpot with your three sons.
Richard Marx:
I really did.
Rip Esselstyn:
Are any of them performers?
Richard Marx:
Yes. I mean, they're all musicians and they're all really gifted songwriters, singers. They all play different instruments. We've done a lot of work together. They've sat in with me on stage. We've done some TV shows together. We recently just did the Kelly Clarkson Show together. They sang all the harmonies for me on this song I did on the Kelly Clarkson Show a few months ago. But they're all sort like my eldest son, Brandon is 32, and he's a brilliant musician, but he's pursuing a photography career. The music business is not easy. It's in some ways harder than it's ever been to really get traction.
My middle son, Lucas, is 30. He's the one who's the most laser beam focused on music. He's having great success. He wrote a song for Katy Perry a year or so ago. He actually wrote and produced several songs with me on my latest album Songwriter. We just had a hit top 15 single on called Same Heartbreak Different Day that I wrote with Lucas and Lucas produced. So working with him now, I just wrote a song with him yesterday. And so we collaborate together all the time. He's become my new favorite collaborator. And my youngest son, Jesse, and I wrote two songs on the new album as well. And Jesse is a rock artist. He goes by a band name called Mark This Hour, and he's got his EP out there and brilliant. But it's pretty heavy. It's pretty heavy rock. So we wrote a couple of Hard Rock songs for my record, and Jesse and I produced it together. And so yeah, it's still a family business. It's just a generation later.
Rip Esselstyn:
That is so fantastic. So you said one of your sons was over yesterday and you guys wrote a song. I mean, do you find that with your songs, are you working on some of these songs for weeks, months? Sometimes it's the muse visits you and you write it on the back of a napkin at a restaurant. Is it just all these things?
Richard Marx:
Yeah, it's all those things. I can't even say that the best ones happen quickly, although there is some science to that. The biggest songs, the most successful songs I've ever had, I probably worked the least on in terms of worked hard at them. They just happened. I think probably the song I'm most associated with, which is called Right Here Waiting, I wrote it in 20 minutes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Really?
Richard Marx:
It just... But I really am a believer that these kind of things, whether you're a musician, whether you're a songwriter, whether you're an author, a painter, like I'm just an instrument. It just sort of happens. It kind of comes through me. And I talk to so many other creators who feel the same way. Sometimes it's perspiration rather than inspiration. But for the most part, it's pretty effortless. Music especially is very easy for me. I still feel like the well is very deep. I have musical ideas every day. I'm constantly singing voice notes into melodies and stuff into my phone that sometimes become songs.
Lyrics are harder for me because I'm very meticulous about them. So sometimes I can slave over a lyric for weeks before I'm happy with it. I'm actually right from here, I've never written with him before, but I'm writing with a brilliant songwriter named David Page today. David Page was a founding member of the band Toto. So David Page wrote Africa, Rosanna, Hold the Line. But then he also wrote all these other songs for different people. He wrote Lido Shuffle for Boz Scaggs, and-
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Richard Marx:
Got To Be Real for Cheryl Lynn. This guy, he's a brilliant keyword player. So we're going to see what happens today. We're just going to get together and make up something and it's really fun.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh yeah. I recently saw that you were collaborating with Burt Bacharach, well, I shouldn't say recently. I saw that on your Instagram post. I know he passed away recently and it sounds like you guys had a really remarkably special relationship.
Richard Marx:
Yeah, we did.
Rip Esselstyn:
But I mean, to be able to collaborate with people like Kenny Rogers, Kenny Loggins, Lionel Richie, Burt Bacharach, I mean, how wonderful. And they probably feel the same way like, "Hey, I'm collaborating with Richard Marx today, baby."
Richard Marx:
I mean, I can't even wrap my brain around that. But the idea of getting to be not just in a room and creating with these people who were my heroes... You mentioned Kenny Loggins. When I was in high school, I knew every Loggins and Messina record. And then when he went solo, I was first in line to buy Keep the Fire. And I knew every nuance of every song. And I studied the way he sang all these songs. He was my favorite singer. And then he did an album called High Adventure, and I'm Alright from Caddyshack. And I was like the biggest Kenny Loggins fan. And I sometimes got accused of trying to copy his sound.
And well, a few years after I moved to LA, I met him. And over the years we became really close friends. And then we ended up writing songs together and performing together. I was with him day before yesterday. After all these years, he's doing a documentary about his career in life, and we wrote a song together for that that we were in the studio working on, recording. And he's doing his final tour. He's retiring from touring this year. But I'm doing at least one of the shows with him in California. And Rip, it's like, whether it's Kenny or Burt Bacharach or whoever, I find myself just going, what? I'm still sort of like a kid. And I just feel so blessed, so grateful that I have gotten to not only create with my heroes, but know them and become... Like Kenny's one of my dear friends.
Burt Bacharach and I became really close. We talked all the time. And I only met him about five or six years ago. I feel for me with Burt, it's a little bit of a balance. I feel a little ripped off that I didn't get to meet him until the last few years of his life because we were just becoming great friends. But he was 94 years old. He had a great run and he knew how blessed he was and great family. And we're doing a sort of celebration of his life in a couple weeks in his backyard with a bunch of friends. But yeah, man, I'm such a lucky guy that I not only have gotten to make music and have a career as an artist and performer and run around stages and make funny faces and wear tight jeans but to be a creator with people who made me want to do what I do, to this day I still get to collaborate with those people and I'm really, really, really grateful.
Rip Esselstyn:
So tell me, during this collaborative process, is there much in the way of egos? Because I know sometimes when I'm collaborating with people, you got an idea, they got an idea, and there can be a little friction. And I'm wondering you guys set ground rules ahead of time? Or you just know because of the invitation to collaborate or however that works out, that we're going to throw our egos aside and try and truly collaborate?
Richard Marx:
It's really never been an issue for me because I think early on, well, I started as a songwriter for other people before I got a record deal. So when I was 18, 19, 20 years old, I was writing songs with and for Kenny Rogers. I did a song with Chicago, Philip Bailey, Earth Wind and Fire, so I was getting to work with big stars. I knew how to be a collaborator, how to be a co-writer. And then after I became really successful as an artist, I still continued to work with other artists. I always wanted to keep my producer/writer job separate from my performer job. And a long time ago, I figured out the equation. If I'm going to go in his room and write with Keith Urban, for example, I've had great success with Keith Urban. We've written three of his biggest hit-
Richard Marx:
For example, I've had great success with Kiefer, and we've written three of his biggest hits, and I'm a huge fan of Keith's. When I get together with someone like Keith, my ego in that environment is non-existent because we're writing a song for him. We're writing a song that he's planning to record. Now, if we're writing a song for me and there's any kind of back and forth, I'm going to win that argument because it's my record and I can do it in a polite way, but I'll be like, you know what? Yeah, I'm going to do it this way. I don't like that, or whatever.
When it comes to working with somebody else, my sole purpose for being in that room with them is to help them get what they need. And so I take my ego out of it, and there are times when Keith and I, for example, will go back and forth about a lyric and he'll say a lyric, and I'll think to myself, I wouldn't sing that. And then my next thought is, I'm not singing that. He is, and he likes it. We're going with that. It's really simple. The ego thing is really, when you talk about people with dealing with ego battles, it's not battles of ego, it's just battles of insecurity. You know what I mean? I feel very secure with my role as a collaborator. I know exactly what my purpose is in that situation.
PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:46:04]
Rip Esselstyn:
Very well said. I noticed that one of the books that you absolutely adore and cherish is James Allen's as a Man Thinketh.
Richard Marx:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
You recommend that we read it?
Richard Marx:
I recommend that everybody reads it, and years ago, they adapted it to a, there's an As a Woman Thinketh, and I stumbled upon it at a time about 10 years ago when my life was really changing. I was married for a very long time, raised my kids, and was in the process of getting divorced and being single really for the first time in my life. And I was floundering a bit. It was a rough time. Everything that I had become accustomed to and everything that I was comfortable doing was different, had been changed. And I was forcing myself out of my comfort zones and I was chasing curiosity instead of shunning it. And I stumbled upon this book, which you can read in an hour tops, and it was written, I think in 1906.
Now, I'm not somebody who ... Look, if you're really into manifestation or the secret or that stuff, I knew even in the way I said it, I know sounds like I'm dismissive of it. It's just not my cup of tea. But as a Man Thinketh by James Allen was written in 1906, and it really deals with the thing that's interesting to me, which is that the quality of your thoughts dictates the quality of your life. And if you have shitty thoughts, you're probably not going to have a thriving, wonderful existence. And I realized that I needed to clean up my thinking when it came to myself. I was very self-critical, I was insecure about a lot of things, and my thinking was preventing me from being happier.
When I read that book and I read it over and over again and I've given that book as a gift to so many people. It really did change things for me. It shifted things for me. And it always is a reminder, it's an easy thing to fall into where you just get down on yourself, where you start to feel negative about the world, or especially the last few years between COVID and the political discourse. And there's just so much awfulness out there that we are bombarded by on a daily basis that it's easy to get caught up in negative thinking. And this is just always a really good reminder for me to shake that off and pay attention to the quality of my thoughts.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, not only you, but everybody else that's out there. I think I read somewhere or somebody told me once that we have roughly 62,003 thoughts during the day. And of those 95% are negative thoughts where we're bashing ourselves or whatever. And so As a Man Thinketh, I will be reading.
Richard Marx:
Yeah, I think you'll really love it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, fantastic. When you're on stage, do you have a certain routine that you go through beforehand as far as a meal you like to eat? Are you wearing sneakers, jeans, a certain button down shirt that you like to wear? Or is it just whatever?
Richard Marx:
Well, one of my favorite things about being a solo performer is that it's just on the fly. I don't really have a standard. I love Chris Martin and Coldplay, but when I see them, it doesn't matter whether they're in Buenos Aires or in Sydney or in Denver, Chris Martin's wearing the same thing, and that's fine. And he even talks about his uniform. I just kind of go with whatever I feel like throwing on the day and could be sneakers, could be boots, sometimes I feel a little more retro. Sometimes I want to dress it up and I'll put on a jacket with a pocket square and a dress shirt. It depends on the day. But I don't really have rituals like a lot of performers do. I've never warmed up. I mean, I really should start doing that at 59, but my voice has just been so Teflon, and if I'm not sick or under the weather, my voice is just resilient, and I never even think about it.
And also, especially in my solo acoustic show, which when I hear the word solo acoustic show, I immediately get bored just hearing the description because I've seen a couple of solo acoustic shows by great artists, and I was bored out of my freaking mind because they're just saying, "Okay, and this is what I was doing through, when I wrote this next song." I'm like dude, I don't care. I want to be entertained. So I'm always a little nervous when I say my solo acoustic show, because my solo acoustic show is if I had you over to my house for drinks and it was a guitar and I just told you stories. And it's funny and it's very interactive and it's goofy.
And like I said, I have a martini on stage, and that's my only ritual is that I have a little ceremonial swig of my martini before I walk out. I have one on stage, it's very loose and laid back, but I don't do any other kind of rituals and I don't eat before the show. I like to hit the stage hungry, partly because I think when I have eaten anything before a show, I've got to be holding long notes so I can't be like [breathing in]. The audience doesn't want to hear that. I don't eat until after the show.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you don't have a request for five eggplant parmesans in the green room before you go on?
Richard Marx:
Imagine.
Rip Esselstyn:
But in all seriousness, you've been doing a ton of touring lately. Do you have a request for the green room, like all vegan or plant-based or certain things?
Richard Marx:
Yeah. Oh no, of course. And that's easy because it's not a democracy, it's not a band. Even with my band, they have what they want because I don't know if anybody else in my band is plant-based, but they go with me. If I say, "Hey, I'm going to this cool vegan place," they're with me and they find stuff that they love and they're really fascinated by that. They're just not all in like I am. But my dressing room has only plant-based. I'm not a snack kind of guy. I don't eat a tremendous amount of food first of all. I'm pretty economic economical about that, but it's pretty easy. And I wish I could make up that you have to remove the brown vegan M&M's. There's none of that.
Rip Esselstyn:
You mentioned your voice in how you almost have a Teflon voice. You've been very fortunate like that? Do you have insurance on your voice in the case something was to happen to it?
Richard Marx:
That's a really good question Rip, and years ago I went through a period where I was getting sick a lot and I wouldn't cancel shows. I've canceled maybe a handful of shows in my whole career, and I have to be really kind of halfway on my deathbed to cancel a show. But it did come up as maybe something I should do. But to be honest with you, my voice has just been so there for me that it seems like a waste. And sometimes if I'm feeling a little under the weather, whether if my voice is not 100%, one of the things that is helpful for me is that my voice has always been very raspy. I don't have this beautiful, pure tone. I sound like the love child of Rod Stewart and Bryan Adams. So it's not like anybody's expecting some pristine ...
If my voice is a little ragged, it's just more character to that particular performance. My voice doesn't give out on me or crack or any of that stuff. It's just sometimes I have to duck certain high notes on a particular night or whatever, but it's really not a big deal.
Rip Esselstyn:
I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, and so I grew up seeing a lot of concerts at Boston Music Center, but the one person I never saw was Rod Stewart. You mentioned that you have seen him more than anybody else. What do you love about Rod Stewart?
Richard Marx:
Well, I mean, I loved Rod Stewart's songs. I mean, when I was growing up, and then I went to see him in high school and I was just sort of like, I didn't realize that how funny he was and how he was just different than anybody else. I mean there's some similarities with Mick Jagger a little bit, but with Rod, he's just so unafraid to be whatever, goofy. And sometimes he'll move in a way that's super cool, and then on the next line, he'll move in a way that you're like, dude, what are you doing? Are you having a fit? You know what I mean? But he doesn't care. He's just having fun, he's having a laugh, and his songs are great. I think he's one of the most underrated songwriters. People don't give him credit for these songs that he created. Tonight's the Night and Young Turks and on and on, Maggie May.
Rip Esselstyn:
(singing)
Richard Marx:
He grimaces at that one.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, he does.
Richard Marx:
He goes, "That's a piece of garbage." But he said it was a huge hit and it totally changed his life. I don't know. I just started, I would always go see him in concert. And then I met him years ago. We were both backstage at an American Music Awards show, and I met him and I remember just thinking, I kind of wanted to do one of these things, but it was very brief and he was nice. "Hey man, how are you doing?" And then I ran into him. I actually spent a little time with him, very little time with him, but we shared a guitar player, a guy who played guitar in my band for years. And then I took a lot of time off and he ended up touring with Rod and we're still all friends. And he became ill about a dozen years ago. And so he's totally fine now. His name is Don. But it was a pretty scary period of time and it was very challenging him for him financially.
So Rod and I put together a benefit to help cover some of his medical costs, and so I could see him there. And Rod and I did a show together in Atlanta about five years ago. So in Australia, a week ago, I was finishing my tour and I had been mentioning Rod Stewart for almost 48 hours in a row. Somebody at my meet and greet at one of the shows in Sydney asked me about, of all the people I've worked with, who have I not worked that I was wanted to? And I said, Rod Stewart. I always wanted to write and produce a song for Rod Stewart. Didn't happen.
Next day, my drummer says, "Who have you seen in concert more than anybody else?" Rod Stewart. I talk about some of the tours I saw of Rod Stewart. We're going to this restaurant in Perth that night, and we're walking, my band and I are walking, Daisy's with me, and we're walking into this restaurant and my guitar player looks down and he says, "Dude, those shoes are amazing." And I was wearing these cool retro black shoes with white, they're leather, but they're 30 years old. I got them 30 years ago. And they're like, sort of like Elvis used to wear these shoes. You know what I'm talking about? The two-tone?
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh yeah.
Richard Marx:
Kind of loafers. And I said to my guitar player, "It's funny, a few years ago I did this show with Rod Stewart, and when we saw each other in the hallway, we were both wearing the same shoes." And so I said I've had these for 30 years, and we have that conversation, we sit down at the table and Rod Stewart walks up in Perth, Australia.
Rip Esselstyn:
That ...
Richard Marx:
We hug each other. We ended up the next night hanging out and having some drinks together, and that's my life. It's just great. And I finally did get to really spend some time with him, and we ended up, Daisy said, "Oh my God, it was so cute watching you and Rod sitting in the corner and just laughing and having your arms around each other and telling each other's stories." And he's awesome.
Rip Esselstyn:
Let me ask you this question, and this is pure vanity, but besides your voice, what is your favorite feature?
Richard Marx:
On me?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, on you?
Richard Marx:
Feature, physical feature?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Richard Marx:
I guess my eyes, I think I've got pretty eyes. At least that's what many people have told me. Rip, we're going to get into a weird thing here because ...
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes.
Richard Marx:
I'm so self-critical. I only see the stuff that I don't like especially getting older. And I've not done anything yet. I'm not going to say whether I will or not. I don't know. I'd be kind of surprised if I did something, if I had any kind of surgery or anything like that. But I don't knock it on other people. I think it's tricky for men. I think sometimes it really alters the way a guy looks. But then again, there's some celebrities, especially older guys who look amazing because they've done something. I just don't want to be that vain. I don't want to worry about it.
I'm much more concerned about what's going on in here, and if I paid more attention to that and I stay fit and I stay healthy. And look, I'm madly in love. That's like the best youth serum there is, just to be madly in love. And beyond that, I just sort of do the best I can to look after myself, but especially in the town that I live in and the industry that I work in, you can go crazy. And I'm not interested in doing that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. No, well, listen, I appreciate that answer.
Richard Marx:
What about you? What do you think your best feature is?
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I'll tell you. I'm going to tell that in a second, because it's funny, I look back on your videos, I listened to ...
Richard Marx:
Oh, you were going to the hair?
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh man, that hair.
Richard Marx:
Dude, we're so lucky. How lucky are we that we have this? I mean, come on.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like Ted Danson in Cheers.
Richard Marx:
Exactly.
Rip Esselstyn:
But your hair, I mean, your hair in all your videos and everything like that, it was like, yeah, baby.
Richard Marx:
I've been folly blessed as have you been. But I admire you more because if Daisy Fuentes didn't rub some hair dye in my hair every few weeks, it would be that color.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. Wow. No, for me, it would be my back. My back. The musculature of it. Yeah. Not that I look at it that much, but I've had different women tell me that they love my back.
Richard Marx:
And so it's what it is. It's like whoever comments the most on your whatever.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now you are very fortunate in that you're already a grandfather.
Richard Marx:
I am. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
I am not. Like you, I've got three children. I've got a 9 year old daughter, a 13 year old daughter, and a 15 year old son. I got married when I was almost 44. So a lot later in life. And I have to remark on this because I loved your sense of humor in this. You were visiting your granddaughter and you asked her and her two friends "Who is your favorite singer?" And I'll let you tell the story.
Richard Marx:
They said Harry Styles and ...
Rip Esselstyn:
The Weeknd.
Richard Marx:
Weeknd and Bruno Mars.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's right.
Richard Marx:
Such a betrayal.
Rip Esselstyn:
And you looked and you're like, that's bullshit.
Richard Marx:
Well, what happened was I was visiting my granddaughter in Miami. Daisy and I have a place in Miami. So we were there part-time, and my granddaughter, Maddie and her family have a place in Sunny Isles, which is nearby. And she lives in Chicago most of the time. So I don't see her that often. But we definitely wanted to get together, it was during the Christmas holidays. And so I went over and she had her friends visiting with her, and they're all about TikTok. And I'm kind of still new to TikTok, but I had a pretty good following from the get-go. And I don't really feed that beast as much as I should, but it's fun. And Maddie, my granddaughter, said to me, "We were talking, we were thinking, do you think we could do a TikTok with you so we can get more followers?"
And I said, "Sure, but let's do something fun." And so I came up with that and oh my God, for the following week or 10 days, all 3 of those girls were texting me. "I got five more followers today." Or "I got eight more followers in the last hour." And it's so cute.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. No, that whole TikTok beast, that's something I've stayed away from so far.
Richard Marx:
I think especially for somebody like you, you can use it in a way that suits you, that's fun for you. I can't get into the whole trends that are happening. If I think of something that might be funny, or if I find a clip from a show or something that I think people might like, I'll throw it up there, but the biggest posts I've ever done on TikTok, I think the biggest, one of the biggest ones was recently I was with Kenny Loggins and we were writing this song for this project that he's doing. And I was sitting in his music room and we were working on lyrics, and he was on his phone, and I know he was working on the lyrics, but it felt like he was just gone. Like he was not in the room with me. And so I did this video where I showed him behind me, and I was like, this is what it's like writing songs with Kenny Loggins. I'm here working, and he's on eBay or something.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Richard Marx:
And just that little clip blew up. I think people don't see people like Kenny Loggins in that situation. He's just a dude in his music room writing a song.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, at the end of the day, we're all just dudes and gals and human beings. Living in Miami, have you crossed paths at all with Dan Buettner?
Richard Marx:
Yeah. Well, I know Dan and I know you were just on his podcast.
Rip Esselstyn:
I've had Dan on my podcast probably three or four times. Every time he writes a new book, we bring him on.
Richard Marx:
Daisy and I met Dan about five years ago and had dinner with him, and we have seen him a few times since. Like modern times, we're more in touch, probably on Instagram messaging than in actual real life. But I think Dan's a really, really cool guy. And I love his books, I love the cookbooks, I love his philosophy. I think he's a really, really good cat. I really like him a lot.
Rip Esselstyn:
He's a good cat. And he's an adventure seeker too, truly.
Richard Marx:
Yeah, very much. And he's easy to be around. He's just really easy to be around. We keep threatening to spend more time together. It's been weird the last few years when he started to spend more time in Miami, we would hit each other up every once in a while. "Hey, we're going to be down there." He's like, "Oh, I'm leaving on Thursday." So we keep doing this, but I would love to spend more time with him. That's what we should do. We should line up a hang, the three of us.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, are you playing pickleball yet?
Richard Marx:
Yeah, I just started.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. Because that's a great way to hang.
Richard Marx:
Yeah, agreed.
Rip Esselstyn:
When you're in the kitchen, you and Daisy ...
Rip Esselstyn:
When you're in the kitchen, you and Daisy, who's taking the lead?
PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [01:09:04]
Richard Marx:
Oh, her. I'm choosing the music on Sonos and making her a drink.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh.
Richard Marx:
But it's fun. I really love that. I love that time. I love when she's... She's not someone who's just a good cook, who just sort of... She loves it. She really enjoys all of it. I never see her get impatient or frustrated or... She just loves creating a meal for us, and I love just being in there to hang with her. And we talk and we listen. Sometimes we listen to music. Sometimes we listen to a podcast. It's a really fun date every time she makes dinner, which is more than half the week, she cooks. So I am only recently getting a little bit more adventurous. I'm pretty good at making breakfast, and I've always had-
Rip Esselstyn:
What's your favorite breakfast.
Richard Marx:
My favorite breakfast is a tofu scramble, or sometimes I use just egg because it's just so easy. But I love to just sort of doctor up a nice scramble or a burrito. My favorite breakfasts tend to be, both of us, tend to be more savory. I love pancakes and waffles, but I just never eat them. I want something savory for breakfast.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you're not an oatmeal fan, per se?
Richard Marx:
I used to be. I lived on oatmeal for most of my life, and I hit a wall with it. Daisy still eats oatmeal. And I know how good it is for me. And I probably eat oatmeal now once every month, and I need to get back into it. I know you're big on oatmeal, right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, big on oatmeal.
Richard Marx:
So is Dan.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, absolutely. I also... I've got a commercialized cereal. It's called the Rip's Big Bowl. I'll send you some.
Richard Marx:
Please.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Richard Marx:
I want to know. But if I'm going to do oatmeal, I got to doctor it up. I got to throw nuts in there. I got to throw some peanut butter or almond butter. I got to... A lot of berries.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Richard Marx:
It's got to be a hearty... Can't just be oatmeal for me.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, when I do, whether it's oatmeal or whether it's just cereal, I kid you not, Richard, I have... I got ground flaxseed meal in there.
Richard Marx:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
I got hemp parts, I have some walnuts, I have... Usually it's frozen fruit because it's just always perfect, and I throw it in the microwave for, yep. 30, 45 seconds. But I got mango chunks. I got berries. I do usually do a fresh banana. I love kiwi. I love grapefruit. So I usually have at least three different types of fruit on my cereal bowl or oatmeal. And it's occasional.
Richard Marx:
Dude, I only just realized that there is frozen avocado. I had no idea that that was a frozen thing. And I saw it in the store the other day, and I saw.. I turned to Daisy. I literally went like this. I went [mind blown motion]. What are we doing? And it's not bad, not fresh, but it's still... It's a good alternative.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah.
Richard Marx:
Because we all live on avocado.
Rip Esselstyn:
I have never seen frozen avocado in the store. What store were you at?
Richard Marx:
We were at a place called Bristol, Bristol Farms.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
Richard Marx:
Here in LA.
Rip Esselstyn:
So I'm asking you this question on behalf of Dan, Dan Buetner, what bean is your best friend?
Richard Marx:
Baked.
Rip Esselstyn:
Baked beans.
Richard Marx:
Baked beans are my favorite, especially for breakfast. There must be part of me that's British, because my favorite breakfast is a nice piece of sourdough toast, some avocado spread on it, and baked beans on top. That's breakfast. That's my favorite breakfast. I can do that all day. But I'm not an anti any bean. I'm a big fan of... There's no bean that's not my friend.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yep. Well, it's one of the common denominators of all the blue zones that Dan has studied.
Richard Marx:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's great. And most Americans are not consuming beans whatsoever.
Richard Marx:
We live... Chickpeas and kidney beans, black beans, a lot of black beans in this household, red beans. That's probably the most consumed food group on a weekly basis for us.
Rip Esselstyn:
You guys usually do canned or do you do it from scratch, those beans?
Richard Marx:
Usually canned.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, so do we. Yeah, yeah. No, listen, no judgment there, right?
Richard Marx:
It felt a little judgy.
Rip Esselstyn:
It was not intentional. And for everyone listening out there, I don't care how you get your beans, just get them in.
Richard Marx:
Yeah, totally.
Rip Esselstyn:
One of the things I'm so impressed about you, Richard, and your wife, is how you guys, you're out there and you're vocal about your lifestyle. You're not just not talking about it, but you're talking about it. And I'm just wondering, is that just because you believe in it so much and you want others to know? And if it resonates with them, then that's great.
Richard Marx:
Yeah, I think it's that. It's not just a plant-based diet or a plant-based philosophy. It's like anything. I think even yesterday I heard... When I was driving back from working with my son, I went on Spotify. I do this... You know what new music Friday is?
Rip Esselstyn:
I don't.
Richard Marx:
It's a feature on Spotify where. They just put new songs that have come out in the last week or so. And there's this new Taylor Swift song called All of the Girls You've Loved Before. And I hadn't heard it, and I listened to it. And it like, wow, talk about craft, man. This chorus is just killer. And I took a screenshot of it and I posted it. Because when I hear something or see something, or experience something that fires me up, I want to share it. I want people to know. And to me, that's what having any kind of platform is about, is talking about things that matter, obviously. I've been pretty vocal about not... I don't even consider it politics, it's just sort of human decency, but I love to turn people on to new music that I've heard, or a movie that I saw, or a TV show, or a book or whatever.
And I think that being plant-based and how much we enjoy it and the experience of it is something that we just have always wanted to share with people. It's amazing the pushback you get. It's like... Because we never do it in an instructional way, like, you need to or you should, or... It's never that. It's just like, hey... It's amazing the hate that we get if we post something about a great plant-based thing, we'll get... Look, 95% of the comments are, "Oh, that looks great," or "Good for you," or whatever. But there's always the 5% are like, "If we all went vegan, the animals would take over the world, and we're meant to meat." Dude-
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Richard Marx:
... just stop.
Rip Esselstyn:
What about your sons? Have they followed at all down that path?
Richard Marx:
One of them has been, I'd say 98% plant-based for about four years now. The other two enjoy, happy to go to any vegan restaurant with us. They're happy. They love Daisy's cooking. We hang out all the time. My three sons, they all live near us, and they're my best friends, and they're Daisy's best friends too. It's a very harmonious, wonderful thing. But the other two are a little stubborn. They're like, "I want to eat what I want," and I don't push back on it. They can eat whatever they want. And I say that I feel that way about anyone. When I've had conversations with people about, and maybe you've done the same thing, I don't care what you eat. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. The only thing I will go, hang on a second, is when people make blanket statements, like, "It's not normal. It's not natural. We can't survive on," or "Where do you get your...
I would go, but I need protein." Comments that are just uninformed, that's when I go, "Time out. Can I tell you a few things, just so you know. I'm not saying you should do this. I'm just saying that you're basing your decision on misinformation."
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, a lot of misinformation that's out there. And the more that we're staring at this climate change in the face, and the more you realize that... And the figures vary from a low of 18% to a high of close to 80% of the global greenhouse gas emissions that are caused by animal agriculture. That's pretty compelling too. If you don't want to do it for yourself, then let's do it for future generations.
Richard Marx:
Yeah, exactly.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Richard Marx:
Or at least listen to the stats. And if you're skeptical, then do your own research because you're going to find the same thing that we did. And if you find something different, see where the study was funded.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Richard Marx:
If it was funded by the meat industry, then you might want to raise an eyebrow on that one.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. You mentioned TV shows. Is there anything in particular you're watching right now that you're enjoying?
Richard Marx:
Yeah. We're not huge TV watchers or movie watchers. We're more doers than watchers, but we started watching this show on Amazon called Daisy Jones & The Sixth, and it's loosely based on Fleetwood Mac. So it's set in the seventies, that sort of Laurel Canyon, Southern California, pop rock, a band that's incestuous, where everybody's kind of screwing each other, and there's drama and there's romance. And the star, Daisy Jones' character, is played by Riley Keough, Elvis's granddaughter, and she's really, really great. I'd never seen her act before. She was really, really good. The cast is great. And for me as a musician, there've been so many movies and TV shows that are based upon the music business that have just been like, that's not how that goes. That's not what happens. What is that? This show is fairly accurate, and we're really enjoying it. So I would definitely recommend Daisy Jones & The Sixth.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Richard Marx:
We started to watch... And Everybody's been talking about The Last of Us. Have you seen that?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, I'm up to date on that one, and then there's one other that I got sucked into, and it is, it's dark, yeah, the White Lotus. I don't know if you've heard of it.
Richard Marx:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. We watched both seasons of that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. Okay. Well, that draws you in.
Richard Marx:
Yeah, for sure. Well, I really loved the first season more than the second season, but-
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Richard Marx:
The thing about The Last of Us, I was finally... My sons especially were like, "You guys have to watch it." So night before last, we sat down and we started episode one. And it got to the point... I'm not giving anything away for anybody who hasn't seen it. This is really early in the episode, 20 minutes into the episode, you realize what the show's really about. And it's this sort of chase scene. It's very suspenseful where they're trying to escape. And Daisy sitting next to me and she goes, "Turn it off. It's too much anxiety. I can't watch this." And I was like, "What?" She goes, "No, I can't. I can't." And I was like, "All right, I guess I'm going to watch this by myself."
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I've had more... And I agree with this, but I've had more people tell me, if you don't want to watch, I think there might be eight shows in the season - watch episode three.
Richard Marx:
Everybody said that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Richard Marx:
My son Lucas said, I... And he's a very thoughtful, soulful dude, but he's also pretty stoic. And he said, "Dad, I bawled my eyes out sitting there alone in front of the TV." He said, "I was crying." I was like, "Oh, that sounds like fun. I can't wait." But I know I have to watch it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, the fact that the writers, the director, everybody could go in this direction is kind of like a timeout.
Richard Marx:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
It was so powerful.
Richard Marx:
Yeah, I've heard it's great.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's such a beautiful moment to me in TV.
Richard Marx:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. How did you get the name Richard?
Richard Marx:
Well, I was named after my father, different middle names. My father was, as I mentioned... Now, he was very talented. He was also very well known in Chicago. So he started out as a jazz pianist and got a big following. And he was sort of like the cool dude in Chicago jazz in the fifties. And then I came along in 1963 when he was starting his jingle company, but he was... We would go out to dinner and people would come up to him. He was known in Chicago. And as I got older, I decided, and I've told this story on stage many times, that because.... And he went by Dick. He was known as Dick Marx. And I said, I knew when I was very young that I was going to be Richard, because growing up in Chicago, I knew that my dad was well known, and if I wasn't Richard, he would forever be known as Big Dick, and we know what that would make me. So I went with Richard.
Rip Esselstyn:
Got it. Well, my real name on the birth certificate is also Richard.
Richard Marx:
Oh, I did not know this. We're brothers.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes, we are. We're both Richards. So [inaudible 01:24:09]
Richard Marx:
A couple of on the podcast.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes. Yes.
Richard Marx:
I tour with Rick Springfield every so often. We've done a bunch of shows together. We've been friends for a long time. And I nicknamed the tour, the Two Dicks Tour, the Dick Squared Tour.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. Nice. All right. We're winding down here, but if you don't mind-
Richard Marx:
Oh man, it was just getting good.
Rip Esselstyn:
... I'd like to ask you kind of a esoteric question.
Richard Marx:
Okay.
Rip Esselstyn:
And that is... You and I have both been on the planet almost the exact same amount of time. I was born in February of 1963. You were, I think September, 1963.
Richard Marx:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
What do you think happens to us when we die?
Richard Marx:
Oh, that's a good question. I have this conversation a lot. Okay, I'll be honest with you.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Richard Marx:
I don't think I've ever discussed this publicly, only among friends and family. Up until I was about Late forties or 50, I was never what you'd call it, religious, but I definitely had a belief and a faith in God, whatever that was, and it was sort of traditional. I wasn't particularly... I wasn't a Bible follower, but I appreciated it. I didn't come from that. My family, my father's side of the family was Jewish, although he wasn't a practicing Jew. My mother was Presbyterian growing up, but she didn't go to church. We weren't a churchy religious family at all. My ex-wife and her family were very, very religious, and she still is, Southern Baptists. So I was exposed to a lot of that and the Bible and church and all that stuff. But I had an unshakeable faith in God until my late forties, and I started to ask myself more questions. And over a period of years and reading and meditating and conversations, I finally decided that I am what I call an agnostic atheist.
There's no such thing as an atheist or a believer. You're an agnostic no matter because none of us know. So I own that. I feel really comfortable in that, but it's such a different daily experience being an agnostic atheist and not believing in... I believe in the universe, and I believe in energy, and I could go on and on about it. But the answer to your question is, since adopting this belief system, I believe that when we die, it's just lights out. I don't think there's anything after. I don't believe... There's no evidence to suggest otherwise. And the people that say, "Yeah, but what about people who had near death or they died and they were brought back?" Their brains were still functioning. It could have been a sense of a dream state or power of suggestion, any number of things. Here's the thing, Rip, when I think that, let alone say it, I know that sometimes it's like, oh, how sad if that's it.
Not to me. Because when I started to really believe that it's just lights out at the end, this moment and five moments from now are that much more important than they were when I believed in some extra thing. I really believe it's all about now. I really believe that it's just this ride. And I want to enjoy it the most I possibly can. I want to love people hard. I want the people who I love to know how deeply they matter to me. I want to have amazing moments with strangers and family, and I want to just... I really believe that... Yeah, so you just turned 60?
Rip Esselstyn:
Just turned 60.
Richard Marx:
Happy birthday. And I'll be 60 in September. And look, if we're lucky, we've got maybe another 25 ish summers to enjoy. I'm not wasting them, man. Especially believing the way I believe, it's all about enjoy that meal, man, really be in the moment and taste that food, and laugh at everything, and hold her hand more, and tell your people how much they mean to you. That's what I believe.
Rip Esselstyn:
I like that. I like it all a lot. Thank you for sharing that.
Richard Marx:
My pleasure. Thanks for asking.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, you've had quite a ride these first 59 years. Congratulations. Way to live, large, dream big, produce all kinds of fantastic stuff to share with the world. You're doing great things, Richard. I really appreciate you coming up.
Richard Marx:
Thank you. Same to you, man. I feel exactly the same way. Congratulations. Keep on keeping on.
Rip Esselstyn:
Keep the plant strong.
Richard Marx:
Done.
Rip Esselstyn:
Boom. For all of Richard's upcoming tour dates and announcements, visit richardmarx.com and continue to support this humble legend. And oh yeah, I'll have Daisy on soon to discuss her own personal journey. Until then, keep rocking it. My PLANTSTRONG friends. Thanks.
Thank you for listening to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. You can support the show by taking a quick minute to follow us wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, leaving us a positive review. And sharing the show with your network is another great way to help us reach as many people as possible with the exciting news about plants. Thank you in advance for your support. It means everything. The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin, and Wade Clark. This season is dedicated to all of those courageous, true seekers who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth, most notably, my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselsteyn Jr. And Ann Crile Esselsteyn. Thanks for listening.
