#295: Dr. Laurie Marbas and Brittany Jaroudi - Plant-Based 101: Your Guide to Mastering a Plant-Based Diet
Dr. Laurie Marbas and Brittany Jaroudi
Thinking about going plant-based but not sure where to start? Or maybe you’ve been at it for a while but could use a little extra guidance and motivation to stay the course?
Rip welcomes back plant-based physician Dr. Laurie Marbas and chef Brittany Jaroudi, the authors of Plant-Based 101: The Ultimate Guide for Mastering the Plant-Based Diet. Their new book is packed with practical tips on everything from getting started and cooking delicious meals to handling social situations with confidence.
They cover:
Finding Your "Why" – Dr. Marbas highlights the importance of identifying your personal motivation for going plant-based.
Practical Tips – They discuss meal planning, grocery shopping strategies to save time and money, favorite food swaps, and handling family dynamics and cravings.
Nutritional Concerns – What about protein, vitamin B12, and other nutrients?
The Science and the Stories Behind Their Journey – They blend research, humor, and personal stories to make plant-based eating enjoyable.
Plant-Based 101 is packed with recipes, motivation, and tools to support a sustainable plant-based lifestyle so whether you’re a total beginner or a longtime plant-based eater, this conversation is all about making your journey easier, more enjoyable, and totally doable.
About the Authors
A few years ago, plant-based physician Dr. Laurie Marbas and plant-based influencer Brittany Jaroudi, teamed up to create The Healing Kitchen, which is a space where food heals, medicine empowers, and community connects. Brittany herself adopted a whole foods, plant-based lifestyle, lost 70 pounds, reversed her own chronic diseases, and recently gave birth to a healthy baby boy!
Together, they recently released their first book, Plant-Based 101: The Ultimate Guide for Mastering the Plant-Based Diet which tackles all of the questions and obstacles people face when they want to make lasting changes - how to get started, time-saving tips for cooking, dealing with family dynamics, cost-effective eating, dealing with tempting situations, and so much more. It’s an approachable and inclusive resource from the unique perspective of a chef and a physician!
Episode Resources
Purchase Plant-Based 101: The Ultimate Guide for Mastering the Plant-Based Diet
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Full Episode Transcription via Transcription Service
I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
[0:06] Picture this. You're at a family event and somebody approaches you and says, hey, I think that I'm ready to make some big changes. It looks like this whole food plant-based thing really seems to be working for you. You've piqued my interest. Where in the world do you recommend that I begin and how should I get started? You're in the right place today because I welcome back two former guests to the podcast, Dr. Laurie Marbas and Brittany Jaroudi. They have recently written the definitive manual on the subject. The name of their book is Plant-Based 101, The Ultimate Guide for Mastering the Plant-Based Diet. So whether you're a veteran or you're just dipping your toes, there's a lot to learn from today's conversation. And we'll be right back with Brittany and Dr. Marbas right after this word from PLANTSTRONG.
[1:04] A few years ago, plant-based physician, Dr. Laurie Marbas and plant-based influencer, Brittany Jaroudi teamed up to create the Healing Kitchen, which is a space where food heals, medicine empowers, and community connects. Brittany herself adopted a whole food plant-based lifestyle, lost 70 pounds, reversed her own chronic diseases, and recently gave birth to a healthy baby boy. Together, they recently released their first book, Plant-Based 101, The Ultimate Guide for Mastering the Plant-Based Diet, which tackles all of the questions and obstacles that people face when they want to make these kind of lasting changes. They address how to get started, time-saving tips for cooking, dealing with family dynamics, cost-effective eating, dealing with tempting situations, and a lot, lot more. It's an approachable and inclusive resource from the unique perspective of a chef and a physician. I know you're going to enjoy this.
[2:17] Laurie Marbas, Brittany Jaroudi welcome to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. Brittany, I see you've got a little one that is hugging you dearly. What is his name and how old is he? This is Paul. He's eight months. Wow. Well, he is adorable. Congratulations on that little precious gem. Thank you. So Laurie and Brittany, I've had you both on the podcast in the past. Laurie, for those that are interested, we had a fantastic conversation. It was episode 129. Gosh, that's probably almost two years ago now. Hard to believe. And then Brittany, you and I had a more recent conversation. We were episode 236 about your remarkable journey. But you guys, I have you on the podcast today because you have just written a wonderful book. And it's called Plant-Based 101, The Ultimate Guide for Mastering a Plant-Based Diet.
[3:24] And you do such a thorough job in discussing so many wonderful topics. We're not going to be able to talk about all of them today. I want everybody to buy the book. But just to give you an idea, there's topics on how in the world do you get started on a plant-based diet? You unravel all the myths that are swirling around out there. Is this a cost-effective way of eating? I think it is. Time-saving tips, plant-based cooking and recipes, family dynamics, which we all are dealing with and struggling with. Are there nutritional deficiencies that I should be concerned with? What about eating out and traveling? and then long-term success and adaptation. These are all topics you tackle very, very thoroughly and well in the book. So what I want to do today, gang, is I want to give the audience kind of a taste, a little flavor of this magnificent book before we do, because our audience has grown tremendously since we've had you, Laurie, and since we've had you, Brittany. So, Laurie and then Brittany, if you could just give our audience a quick little kind of summary of who you are and your background and why you're so passionate about plant-based.
[4:43] Um, sure. So my name is Laurie Marbas. I'm a board certified family and lifestyle medicine physician. I've been on a plant-based journey myself for 13 years. And it was because of a patient interaction where I actually saw the power of a plant-based diet with a young woman who stopped two of her tension deficit deficit disorder medications because she felt so good at the age of 16. And that led me down the journey the rabbit hole to find the china study and then it was no turning back and so i'm actually licensed in all 50 states to see patients and i utilize that to help people who are starting a plant-based diet plant-based curious the worried well all those um yeah that's really a very quick nutshell yeah and i have i have never heard of anyone that's licensed in all 50 states. Do you know anybody else that has done something so absolutely painful? Painful is a great definition.
[5:39] Nobody personally, but I know there are. There's very few for sure because it's not one an administrative nightmare, but also it's quite expensive to get, but then to maintain there is a nice little price tag that goes with that. Wow. And just before we move on to Brittany, I do want people to know that Laurie and I have worked together. Most recently, Laurie was the medical director at our Sedona Immersion back in the fall of 2024. And we had a grand old time, didn't we? Yes, that was a blast. Anybody who wants to go, you really should go. It's absolutely one of the best times I've ever had. I mean, it was remarkable. Your team did a phenomenal job. Yeah. And then something that, I think it was one of the last evenings we all had to pair up and Laurie and I had to pair up and stare into each other's eyes without blinking and without talking for what felt like five minutes. It was one of the most curious and also borderline hard things I've done in a long time. And you did well, Laurie.
[6:44] I do feel like, yes, that was quite the connection. So that was really fun. It was intense, but it was fun. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. So Brittany, Brittany, let's bring you on. So how, give me, give everybody a little taste of your background. So I'm just an average person. I stumbled upon the whole food plant-based lifestyle and lost 70 pounds and reversed hypertension, high cholesterol, my C-reactive of protein levels and have just been loving cooking and living this and just thought of it really as such a gift that I wanted to share with others. It allowed me to, like I said, lose all my weight, get healthy, and then have a really easy pregnancy and have this little whole food plant-based babe right here.
[7:30] And just again, it's like the biggest blessing in my life because I have a awful family history of genetic stuff that if I didn't do something, I would definitely be not having too good outcomes, I'm sure, in the future. Was this your first pregnancy and birth? Yes. Yep. Right. And you say it was relatively easy? Yeah. Yeah. It went really well.
[7:53] I had a wild birth story, which I was sustained on well-being bars. I can tell about that some other time. But yeah, I have really healthy pregnancy, no complications. And yeah, just really lucky to have this little fella. Wait, wait. What is a well-being bar? I've never heard of that. Yeah. So they're a whole food plant-based bar that's just beans and dried fruit. And they're similar to a lar bar, but with beans in them. And I love the company. We went to the hospital after my water broke and it was like five, five to six AM. And once you get to a hospital, you know, they're like, you can't eat anything. Yeah i ate two well-being bars in my bag and then didn't have him until like close to midnight.
[8:39] I mean it sustained sustained me though through it all but yeah i i just i'm curious what like what kind of beans are in a bar i've never heard of beans in a bar all different kinds of beans they have black beans um all sorts of stuff i'll have to send you the link for them they're a great whole food plant-based company have to check them out cool um so we're gonna go into your your new book and talk about some of the topics but why now why did you guys decide to come out with a book and this just launched everybody in early january so very exciting, Yeah, I think it's important to just kind of back up a little bit in our history together. So I had started plant-based telehealth. We sold it. It's now Love Life, which is amazing. Great doctors there too.
[9:30] And then started another company called Mora trying to use insurance. We shut that down. And that was that time, just perfect timing as I was shutting down, looking to do my own thing that Brittany had reached out, I think just a month or so before. And I was like, hey, Britt, would you be open to doing something together? And we always hear about people are always asking, where's the recipes? And can I talk to a medical doctor? I'm like, why don't we put them together? And we came up with the concept of the healing kitchen. So it's a live group that we do every single week. We do live coaching. Brittany does her amazing cooking demo for half hour. I answer medical questions for half an hour. We have a private community. Along with the book, we launched a course to really help people walk through how to start a plant-based diet, starting with the mindset and then just understanding the habits that sustain a healthy, well-balanced plant-based lifestyle.
[10:20] And that's where the book kind of came from, because we also do monthly workshops, which you've been a part of once before, like a year or so ago. And so that Healing Kitchen piece has really been kind of the nidus to address some of the questions. And that's where it was like, you know, we have all the same thing. We hear the same questions. we say the same answers we see the same problems like why don't we just put this all together and people love that idea we did a little workshop to kind of test the waters and it was like yes this is exactly and then we expanded upon that and that's how it was kind of came to be because we really wanted to put together a manual so to speak nothing like dr gregor's 600 cited.
[11:02] Which is amazing. But that's a little overwhelming for a lot of people who are especially are just getting started. And even for people who've been on a plant based diet for a while, I want to highlight my own experience as a physician, just, you know, like, these are the things that I see recurring that you can avoid by doing certain things. So that's kind of where it started, like one or two pages per topic, get deep enough to like, oh, I need to be asking some different questions here, right? Not just like, oh, this isn't working for me. I have to give up the plant-based diet. It's like, no, no, this is just, let's step back and let's look at the broader picture. What can we do to tweak? It's like, you look at the radio station, right? You're like, I know that plant-based radio stations here, but it's a little fuzzy. So how do I dial it in? So it comes in clear. And that's kind of what we are. We're kind of the dialing in and getting everything a little clearer for you. You can really appreciate your journey and continue to evolve and thrive. Yeah, wonderful. Well, let's dive in.
[12:01] So, I'm just going to kind of pick and choose different topics from the book that I think would really resonate with our audience. And let's start, you know, you suggest that you have a step-by-step guide to transitioning and you want to do it kind of thoughtfully and methodically. So, where do you begin? Let's just say you're a newbie, you want to transition to plant-based, where do I start?
[12:30] Yeah, I think that's really important to highlight. Number one, when I first started, for example, my own podcast was like, how do people transition to going from 400 pounds to losing 200 pounds and keeping it off? And I was always searching for like, is it what, what's that one thing to do? Was it the right recipe? Was it the right knowledge, right? But it's really easy to get all the recipes and knowledge of food. But if you don't have the mindset figured out, like the why, that is really the most important. So I kind of just highlight that for people because there will be bumps in the road like any new journey. And because you're stepping outside of mainstream food eating and you're searching and going another way, you're going to hit all sorts of unexpected bumps. And so that's kind of where you need to be prepared to understand your why. So it'll help you kind of navigate those and pull you over to, you know, looking at that obstacle as a lesson of learning and and reframing it and being able to navigate it. So that was number one is the why. And the next is, OK, I get why I want to live a longer, healthier life. I want to be here for my kids. I want to have energy. Right. You know, I want to avoid chronic disease. I'm going to reverse my chronic disease, whatever that why is for you. And it'll be very different depending on the person. And that will be also, well, how can we now put in the things to help us not feel overwhelmed? Right. Because when we get overwhelmed, we see resistance and we stop.
[13:55] So we break it down into really some simple ways to do that. Right. Is how can you do this? Let's say you do just breakfast for a week at a time. Then you go breakfast, lunch and dinner. We help you highlight how what should be on your plate. You know, some people get very, very restricted because again, maybe they throw in a ton of fiber and now they're feeling bloated and now they're like, I can't handle this is too much. Well, let's step back and go, well, what caused that? Right. So how can we ease into it? Let's make this smaller so that your body has time to adjust. So you're not feeling the emotional resistance and the physical symptoms. Let's let's really try to navigate this in a very thoughtful and methodical way. It's not very difficult, but once you have the knowledge and know what to expect, when you start seeing it and you tune in, it's a very mindful approach so people can tune in and go, ah, that makes sense. And so they back up and not feel scared, right? It's just there's nothing to fear here. There's nothing to get frustrated, but that resistance is telling you something. And we just turn to it and say, huh, OK, what does that mean? That's really the approach we like to take. Yeah, wonderful. You know, I think, I think something that is very, very real, especially when people go, you know, cold kale from the standard American diet to, you know, whole food plant-based is cravings and withdrawals. And you have a section in the book on that. And I'm just wondering, like, what, what would you tell people? What's the best way to deal with these cravings and withdrawals?
[15:25] Brittany do you have any like Brittany's really good at helping people navigate that I think at least from their favorite food type standpoint I think like it's finding those alternative swaps and I mean you said it in your books a ton and it's just finding things that are familiar and I find that seasoning and flavoring them with sauces or you know cravings of cheese making a cheese substitute or a meat substitute really goes a long way and it's just finding that what your family enjoys.
[15:55] But I find that when people get off this stuff and really start implementing the whole food plant-based lifestyle and these recipes, they feel so good. Their digestion's better. They're sleeping better. The energy's better that it's not as tempting to go back to it after you've done it for a little bit. Yeah. I always tell people that, you know, what do you think would happen, If you're a coffee, a caffeine drinker, you do coffee every day and then you go off the caffeine, what happens? You get irritable, you get headaches, you feel awful, you get grumpy. And so I just let people know, listen, you're going to have to go through a period where you're going to feel worse before you bet before you feel better. And that's actually a good thing. So just hang in there. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's important to highlight. Is there an emotional craving associated with the food as well? Right. So maybe they ate something after dinner with their husband while they watched TV and it was not very healthy for them. There's that piece, too, is really examine the habit of surrounding it. So if you're eating a whole food plant-based diet, yet you're still craving something that's not, let's examine that one layer deeper. So there's some emotional component to it. It's like a smell of anything could bring you back to a memory.
[17:10] That's kind of the same thing. People may be feeling a bit nostalgic about that particular food in their life. And then once you understand that, like, well, okay, now let's build something.
[17:21] A new habit around something healthier or some other activity even to really, you know, satisfy that craving because cravings are just the body's physical needs or emotional needs. There's something that's driving that craving. There was some reward circuitry that's not being met by you going to a whole food plant- based diet. So that's just one piece to think about as well. hmm so what is it that's going on with me after i like last night i had a one meal crock pot of white potatoes purple potatoes kale garbanzo beans onions and uh some you know curry and some spices I had that phenomenal it tasted so good and then about 45 minutes later I'm like oh my god I need my bowl of cereal with fruit on it I mean I it was like all the little I don't know everything in my body was like you want it so that just mean my little sweet tooth very well could be right or maybe you just needed your nutrient there was some nutrient or sweetness I mean who knows um it sounds like a wonderful meal both of them so i wouldn't feel bad about it but you also expend a lot of calories so true i don't know if you ever never seen you on the pickleball court but it's pretty intense i was like i am not being on that i'm on your court it's really interesting.
[18:49] Yeah um all right so let's let's move from cravings and withdrawals to so you have a whole section on meal planning and prep for beginners i would imagine that maybe this section was probably done by britney i could be wrong but uh like where where do you suggest to make this, simple when you start out what's the best way, Yeah, I think keeping things as, you know, you don't have to reinvent the wheel when you go whole food plant-based. It's like there's familiarity and cooking and planning. It's just making even easy swaps. And some things are like, what are you going to replace the meat with? And it would be beans.
[19:33] And so it's just doing things like that when you go through a meal planning. So it doesn't even mean that you have to redo everything you have. It can be switching out eggs for oatmeal and things like that so i think we kept it pretty simple in the meal planner and in the recipes for you i think the recipe piece is helpful because for example if there's you know a bean chili like that's super easy to make that's one thing that we have almost on a weekly if not every 10 day rotation so we tend to fall into camps of regular recipes right seven to nine recipes that most of us will make over and over again kind of like your bowl, right? You're known for your bowl. And that's kind of the next step. Like my smoothie every morning is it's been doing it for like eight or nine years. And so it works really well. And it just makes me feel really good. So that was, you know, the one recipe. So yeah, just figuring out what that is for you culturally driven to maybe it's because you're from Italian and you want to do Italian or maybe come from a Mexican home. You know, I grew up in New Mexico. So Mexican flavorings are my default by maybe not by genetics, but absolutely by nurture. So that is one thing. Is it more of a salads or, you know, whatever that might be for you. So it really just depends. Yeah.
[20:54] If you're somebody that really misses that umame kind of enhancement, um, Do you, Laurie, have any good kind of umami tricks to kind of enhance meals? It's fun because, you know, I, I'm pretty boring, right? So when I, I don't, I have like, I like the chili flavors and those things, but I've been really enjoying watching Brittany do her magic in the kitchen because she'll bring out miso And she, I've learned so many things that I wouldn't have even dreamt of trying because one, I'm like, I don't even know what this is. I was like, I don't know the taste profile, how to make this. Like, it's just not, that's not my thing. Hey, you're a diabetic. You want to get off your meds? I'm your person. But if you want to make something taste beautiful and fancy. But the umami piece, my husband loves that type of flaring. So we have soy sauces. We have miso. And we're traveling now full time. So we have a small, smaller collection of really kind of your, like I would say, these are my standard must have. So it's chili powder, paprika. We have, I think we have some nutritional yeast. We have, you know, the standard things that most people would have in their kitchen. But Brittany's back. So he's asking about the umami flavorings.
[22:23] Yeah. What are some great umami enhancers? Yeah. I mean, I love like mushroom powders are great. So you can grind down dried mushrooms to give kind of a new mommy flavor. I love some black molasses with even some like ginger and a little bit of me. So I know I met you mentioned it earlier and some vegetable broth. So you can make a really easy sauce like pretty quickly by just throwing some of those things together. Yeah. Love it. what about what's your opinion both of you of raw versus cooked, are you a fan of a combination of both more raw more cooked doesn't matter, Yeah, I know. I personally love both. I live in Pittsburgh, which is similar to Cleveland. So although you're not, I know you're not there now, but it's very cold in the winters. And so I love some cooked things for sure. And then I also love raw. So I try to get both in my day throughout.
[23:25] I think it's important to balance both. One, because certain foods you're going to have to cook in order to consume like certain beans and things. So I try to incorporate as much raw as possible, but the cooked has its place as well. So I don't think there's a particular balance. I think summer I tend to be more raw because the fruits and more vegetables that are in season. And in the winter, I tend to fall back more to more cooked meals just because they're warmer in the climate. So again, what's seasonal and what's available and where you're currently living. We try to, we try to buy seasonally and what's being produced where I am, wherever that might be. And I think that's a great approach too.
[24:08] Yeah. Okay. So I, I think I heard a stat from Dr. Will Balshowitz that 97% of Americans are deficient in fiber. Yes. Right. Incredibly sad statistic because we know how important fiber is. So you have a whole section on fiber and its sources. I'd love for you to just touch upon fiber, especially since we're now just starting to realize the importance for our immune health and microbiome and all that.
[24:46] Yeah. So, I mean, it's important to think about where is the, in your body, that's the first thing that the food touches is your digestive system, right? So it would make sense that there's some very important things there. And part of that is your immune system, right? It's, you know, the brain gut axis. There's a lot of different things that we're learning. And to understand that that microbiome that's sitting in there needs to be fed appropriately if you want it to function its best so we have a ferrari so to speak of our microbiome and many times we feed it like it's like you know like a 40 whatever the 1900 ford whatever it was right so we're trying to get with this right so we're feeding and stuff that's like wait a minute But the gut's like, man, I could rev up and do so much better for you and present more wonderful things in your life health wise if you would feed me appropriately these amazing fiber rich foods. And that's where we really get to speaking to eating a diversity of foods, you know, to consume a small amount of nuts and seeds, fruits, veggies, beans, whole grains and a variety of colors. So we've recently came up with it, you know, because we listened to the Healing Kitchen community and they were like, I would love a checkoff list of everything. I was like, oh, man, how am I going to put this on one page? It makes me think. And so I go back to the drawing board and produce something. And they're like, ah, so really was did I get all of my.
[26:09] My different categories of plant foods? Did I get the different colors of plant foods? And so that's the beautiful thing is like, you don't have to do it since I do it every day, but try to get within a seven day period, try to reach the majority of your days are hitting all those categories. And I did recently come up with an idea for people is like to do a plant-based audit, like using chronometer. And this is a great one. It's a great tool just to see where you're at, to make sure that you are including all those different foods. But two would be to see what your grams of fiber are and feedback for people who keep asking you if you're getting enough protein is saying yes i am getting enough protein i actually did an audit of my diet for a week i am getting this much protein which is more than the rda and by the way i'm getting this much you know 50 grams of fiber a day how much are you getting are you fiber deficient and just flipping it backwards on them and people are just cracking up this came out of a conversation with the patient. And that was really how all of this started was conversations and experiences that we've had, you know, over the years, because between Brittany and I, which still doesn't match your plant-based journey, but we have 22 years of plant-based experience.
[27:21] But for us, it's a very, you know, very different, you know, I'm with patients and looking at that piece and she's cooking and understanding people's desires and flavors and all that. So it's a really fun combination. Yeah. What's interesting is I bet you 99% of the people that were to ask any of us, you know, well, how do you get your protein? If we were to ask them, well, let me ask you, how do you get your protein and how much protein do you get a day? They have no idea. Nope. Nope. No idea. And so that's interesting about the chronometer. What are you finding you know, Brittany and Laurie.
[28:05] Roughly how many grams of fiber are they getting when they transition to a whole food plant-based diet a day? Yeah, it's easily over 50, typically. Once they're all in and they're not consuming other foods that fill the void of when you do consume food, I would say on average, most of my patients are saying they're hitting 65 grams or more, which is quite incredible. Um now depending on again if people are having some digestive issues they might pull back a little bit uh but for the most part definitely over 50 grams per day which is what is it i think the rda is like 25 for women 35 for men which is anemic recommendations but we're not even meeting half of that i think average is like 12 grams of fiber per day per american right and it's in it and it's not even from whole plant-based foods it's probably it's probably metamucil and gummy bear fiber chews right exactly like oh i'm getting my fiber through metamucil so i'm like go eat an apple yeah exactly um good stuff so you mentioned you mentioned protein and you have a whole section on you know common concerns and and miss pervasive miss the first one of course is protein deficiency. Um, What would you say about that myth? And is it one that should go away?
[29:32] Yeah, it's interesting. So, you know, when you actually look at individuals who are eating, again, this gets to diversity and making sure you're not excluding very large, important categories like legumes and beans and whole grains, right? I will have people come to me. It's like, I don't eat beans because I had, you know, a couple of days when I first started and And I was so bloated, uncomfortable. I just don't eat any beans. I'm like, I'm dying.
[29:57] So I was like, okay, let's back up and have this conversation about the importance of beans, you know, soy products. People are very afraid of soy products, but they're wonderful sources of protein. They're wonderful sources of nutrients that can decrease risk of cancer, provide, you know, decreasing cholesterol, all these different things. Great for your bone health. And so these are, you know, again, they, they hear things and they've, maybe they didn't even opt in consciously to the belief that something was unhealthy because someone, even maybe a physician who's uneducated on the value of certain foods and their nutritional quality just blatantly says to me, oh, you shouldn't eat soy because it'll cause, you know, whatever. I was like, what are the grounds for those types of statements?
[30:38] And people don't even understand where protein actually originates. All protein. I don't care if it comes from an animal or anywhere, originally comes from plants come on plants are the only thing that can take the sunlight and the soil and make this magic thing happen and create a call thing called an amino acid right and so that's literally where it starts is from the plant so the animals eat the plant then you eat the animal okay your body breaks down that protein into its little milieu of amino acids builds up the proteins that it needs um and does its thing so again people are just like you don't you're missing the whole point here we're just removing the middle animal and all the things that come with that and go straight to the main protein source yeah yeah and so um what have you found i mean with your patients and they're following their their chronometer uh what are they what are they hitting they're typically having so they'll again will if we talk about different categories of patients but on general people are absolutely meeting the minimum rda which is 0.8 you know.
[31:43] Grams per kilogram of body, which is 2.2 pounds, right? As they get a little older, I do find if people navigate towards maybe they eat only a pound of vegetables for breakfast, and if they're my little 70-year-old lady, she's like, I'm just so full. I can't eat anymore. You know, I'm like, okay, let's talk about making a diverse breakfast bowl for in the morning. So, you know, there's some categories. Again, when we start restricting, we start there's a potential that we might you know miss out on a lot of different micronutrients not even the macronutrients of necessary protein but when you're eating a wide variety of foods they're absolutely probably easily meeting i know i easily eat it on a whole food plant-based diet one gram per kilogram, very easily. And so now if you're an athlete, if you're, let's say you're raising a teenager and they're expending a large amount of different calories, there's a section in the book that describes and speaks to athletes or older people's nutrition or kids. That's a little bit more nuanced conversation. And I think it should be individualized to the individual needs. And so, but for the general, if you're eating a wide variety of foods, you're eating enough calories to stay at a healthy weight, you're absolutely doing well. Now, if someone is tremendously overweight, you know, they have 50, 100, 200, 300 pounds to lose, we're not going to eat to that weight. We can eat to the ideal body weight.
[33:08] So that would be around a BMI under 22, in my opinion, because when I have patients, and I've been saying this for a long time, I think the categories of BMI above that, and again, I understand body composition and muscle mass and fat and all that different stuff. But when you start really hitting under 22, that's when I see blood pressure improve, blood sugars really start to trend off. You'll see it earlier, but like really getting off all medications. If I can get someone really paying attention to what they're eating, moving their bodies, dealing with the stress, that is the dialed in approach. And when we get under that, so we usually typically say, look at what your BMI would be around 22 or a little less that would be the protein needs that you need to think about not to keep 180 pounds and again unless you're a football player who's trying to maintain that's a different conversation yeah my little old lady who's sitting on the couch um doesn't need that much protein yeah well let me ask you this because i i know you do talk about you know.
[34:13] Some specific requirements for those that are aging, for obviously children, for athletes, but since the majority of, I think the PLANTSTRONG listeners are probably, let's say, 45 to 75, any particular nuances that you'd like them to potentially start thinking about as they're aging with any of the macro or micronutrients? Yeah. So I think it's really important to make sure that you're getting those two servings of legumes daily. Number one, that's going to be a great source of your protein. And if you can do one or two servings of a soy product, as long as you're not allergic to that, because again, that is a wonderful way to get your calcium, your protein. And if you can do the whole soybean product, that's even better. So, you know, the whole soybean, the edamame, the soy curls, those types of things, because there's so many nutrients that come in the soy product. It's just, again, you can get the organic. If you can't, again, just try to isolate. I really like to highlight beans and legumes. And Brittany does such a wonderful job bringing in all sorts of different types of beans into the recipes, which is really cool. But again, that also those whole grains, the whole grains and beans, such an important piece as we get older, if you can build around that.
[35:35] And, and that will really carry them. Cause I, some of the problems and questions we get are people like, you know, I'm fatigued on a plant-based diet. I don't have enough energy. I was like, well, what's going on here? One, they're not eating enough calories, right? It's a volume food thing. So let's do more, maybe those more calorie dense things. So like, sometimes I'll help not uncommon people like I can't sustain a healthy weight. I'm losing too much weight. Their BMI is hitting under 18.5. And they're like, how do I sustain a healthy weight? I'm like, well, you're one of the lucky ones. I get to go say, go munch on these things, your avocados, your nuts and seeds, your nut butters, but also make sure you're getting all those other things. Again, not an uncommon problem that I see. And so that's where I'd highlight is let's really make sure eating that diversity of foods, but the legume category in particular is so valuable as we're older.
[36:30] Are you seeing anything with any kind of, nutritional deficiencies with people that are aging, whether it's D, omega-3s, B12, and any nutrients of concern there? Yeah, that's a big thing. We talk about labs in the book, about which labs you might want to get checked. As I've always stated, the one supplement that's a non-negotiable, you really should be your B12. I had one patient in particular who wasn't even necessarily older, but mid thirties, she'd been vegetarian and then went fully vegan, uh, for many, many years, well over a decade and was having severe symptoms. And it was all pointed to B12 deficiency as like, do you supplement? She goes, no. And when we checked her labs and even while we were checking her labs, I need you to start this high dose immediately. Um, it was severely under normal, like even like under the one, uh, like two 50, it was like 100 something. It was really, really low. So we started injections and all of those went away. Luckily she didn't have any permanent damage. So this is one thing that we don't want to mess around. If someone tells you, you can just eat fortified foods. No, you need to supplement. And, but they're like, Oh, but a plant-based diet is supposed to meet all my needs. So I like, then go eat some dirt. Don't wash your vegetables, drink some unfiltered water, get your B12 that way. If you really want to be natural, then don't walk in a grocery store, go grow your food.
[37:55] That's how you can get your B12. That's where those organisms live. But people are like, okay, so we live in a very different society. We live in a different world. So yes, you might need to supplement a few little things. Vitamin D is a really important one. So if I have women who come in, let's say they have osteoporosis, they transition to a plant-based diet maybe in their 50s, 60s, 70s. It doesn't matter. I don't know when the osteoporosis even began. I don't know what their bone bank was when they were 30. I don't know what they're, you know, I don't know, but there may be, they were very ill on a, let's say autoimmune disease and they were on high doses of prednisone. And that was the problem. It's not the plant-based diet that causes it. When you highlight osteoporosis in your 50, 60, 70.
[38:37] This happened decades ago. This didn't happen overnight. And so that's really important thing to say, but we can help address it. You know, resistance training, making sure your vitamin D is where it needs to be, making sure you're consuming enough of those foods. Again, the soy products to get that calcium and the protein, which is important for your bone health. It all points to the same lifestyle measures that you need to be doing. And so other nutrients, I would think an algae omegas could be a good supplement for many people. I take these just because I like, it's like an insurance policy, right? So you can absolutely eat ground flaxseed, walnuts, all those things. We convert a little bit by to 15% of those, our gut does, to the long-chain omega-3s. However, they're very hard to know for sure how much. So I consider it, you know, if my brain health and my heart health, and they can just take a little bit of an algae omega and be okay, this is a plant-derived omega-3, the long-chain, I'm okay with that. I personally I'm not, I'm not, I don't have to live to some perfect, perfect dogma or like, I'm feeling like I break the rules. I might as well get, I don't live like that. I'm like, what does the data say if I can supplement? Cause I know a plant-based diet is absolutely the best way to be eating for ourselves, the planet and the animals make zero sense to me to go backwards just because I have to supplement B12 that makes zero sense. And so, yeah, that's where I sit on those. Yeah. But that, I would say Omega is the B, the D12, or excuse me, the B12, the D.
[40:05] Those are the big ones that I, most of the time. Yeah. And depending on if you're a menstruating woman and you have a lot of heavy periods, maybe you need a little bit of an iron supplement. That's even outside of your diet.
[40:20] But also, you know, iodine, if someone doesn't consume enough iodine rich foods, you might be iodine deficient and your thyroid will start. But again, if you cut out the salt, which is fine, I'm not saying you should consume salt. Iodized salt is where we typically get our iodine. And so those are just some things to highlight, which we do here, because again, these are just things people don't think about. So, but now you will be an expert in a plant-based diet because you will have the knowledge in a really simple manual. And that's why we did that. Okay. Wonderful. Yeah.
[40:54] Brittany, question for you. Do you have many friends that are whole food plant-based? So I'm lucky that my husband does this with me and raising our son this way. But my like personal friends before finding out about being plant-based that I grew up with, no. But I'm really lucky that there's a group here about like 10 minutes from my house that had a plant-based community that I was able to join and I've become really good friends with a lot of those ladies now. So, yes and no.
[41:30] Yeah. I'm just, I'm wondering how you, how do you, what's your strategy for kind of navigating those friendships and, you know, what would you recommend for somebody that's potentially in a relationship? Maybe their partner is not in alignment with their whole food plant-based philosophy. be? Well, I think it's really important to reflect on why you're doing it. And it's for yourself. For me, whenever I decided to go, my husband didn't have really any health issues. So he, I just told him, this is what I was doing for myself and he could do what he wanted. And I was going to go forward with us. So I think being really strong in your convictions is very important to sticking with it. And so when we go places now with family or friends, I just like to bring a dish that's whole food plant-based that I think, you know, everyone will enjoy. And a lot of people are really curious about it. So I always tell people to make sure there's enough for you and for people.
[42:28] When I started off, it was not having anything to eat because, you know, everyone ate, they ate the food I brought for myself. So I think that can be really a good stepping point. And also, you know, just being really open-minded that people are going to be curious and have questions. And I feel like when you first find out about this, you kind of want to get on your soapbox and like help everyone. And so I've learned over the years to have a little bit more of a gentle, softer approach into it. And I feel like that's paid off a lot of well, really well with like people that know me personally, both family and friends.
Navigating Relationships and Plant-Based Choices
[43:06] Boy, I'd like to see your hard-nosed approach.
[43:14] Yeah. I think at the beginning, you could just get a little bit more like, you just want to help people. So it's like, you don't want your friends and family to suffer. So it's just, you know, you just want to share everything you've learned. So I think that some people can take that in a good way and some people might not like that. Yeah. Well, Brittany, How often would you say that you go shopping a week? Oh my gosh. I'm not the person that should be answering that. I go like every couple of days, always recipe testing, but on the average, if I'm not doing something like I could go every 10 days.
[43:52] Yeah. So where I'm going with that question is, and how long have you been whole food plant-based? Coming up on, it'll be like nine years this spring. Okay. Nine years. Do you find that eating this way is more expensive or more economical than how you used to eat? So much cheaper, I would say, because you're spending money, you're not spending money on meat and cheeses or processed foods are really expensive. I really love to buy like bulk foods or dry foods and make them from myself from scratch. So like we buy all our whole grains in bulk or our beans in bulk. And that way it's really affordable. I do buy like some no salt added canned beans for convenience, but even going to Whole Foods or something like that, you can get that ridiculously cheap, even making sure that they're like that specific organic, no salt added convenience can that I like to use. So I feel like I save a lot of money. And even with grocery, even with recipe testing, I'm not spending nearly what I was. And like I said, I go to the grocery store pretty often now. Yeah, yeah. No, this definitely can be easy on the pocketbook.
[45:04] So here's a question, and I'll let whoever wants to tackle it, maybe both of you want to tackle it. What have you found with yourselves and with your clients with flatulence, which is, you know, something that people say, you know, happens, especially when you transition to this lifestyle and you're getting in all that fiber and your kind of gut is trying to figure it out.
[45:30] Well, maybe we can talk about that any way you want, but then also what are some ways to help modify and ease that flatulence? Personally, it's something I feel like a lot of us go through, especially when you're eating more fiber. And I think it's just a thing that you ride out a little bit and it gets better. I could say it did not take me all of the almost nine years I've been plant-based to get rid of that. It just, it goes away pretty quickly. But there's some things you can do, like rinsing your beans and grains really well before you cook them or using canned can be a little bit easier on your digestion and like cooking your greens and things like that as well, I find. So, you know, if that is a problem for you, no, it does not last, you know, forever or very long. I find that it clears up pretty quickly. Yeah. Laurie, have you found that many of your clientele have food allergies or sensitivities?
[46:30] And maybe there's... That lead to increased flatulence? Or is that even a thing? No, I think there's majority of people are fine, right? I think it's a fiber load. So the fiber load in the beginning. And so if you're coming from a very fiber deficient state and you're like, I'm all in and suddenly you're like the perfect picture, plant-based eater, there might be a bit of some consequences to those actions. All, even though you have wonderful intentions, the body's like, well, this is the reality. This is what I got to do. So there's that piece. But for the majority, when it comes to food allergies and sensitivities, it's a really nuanced conversation regarding what real allergies are. If someone actually is celiac or has a pretty sensitive gut to gluten, that's a separate issue.
[47:22] One I see it's a big issue is someone who has pretty severe autoimmune disease, And so which get harkens back to the need to really have a really healthy gut microbiome. And that's why I love about, you know, Brittany having a little guy. He's such a beautiful example of never someone's he's probably going to have less sick days. I'm all the five baby people I know because I've helped so many people like my pediatrician's great. But can you help us with this navigate this? Right. That's really, really important is that you're decreasing the chronic disease risk because you're making sure that gut is so healthy. But when we start really thinking about someone who has severe autoimmune disease, like my friend, Chris Miller, Dr. Chris Miller, which I know you, I think you've had on the podcast as well. With her lupus, her journey was really long. She was like, boy, I went plant-based. And she talks about how some of those actually worsened her symptoms in the beginning. But now she can eat pretty much everything. You know, granted, we started around the same time, almost 13 years ago. We've been friends for a really long time. we met each other in person and that's how we started working together. But that was really an important piece to highlight was that if you have really severe autoimmune disease, your navigation of this might be a tad bit more tricky. And that's where I see that most people have, if you have pretty severe autoimmune disease, that's where the food sensitivity can really be an issue.
[48:42] And that definitely needs to be taken into account. Yeah. It seems like there's a whole segment of influencers and people that are out there right now that are trying to bash plants. And it's...
[49:02] Um, for, for myself and I'm sure for you guys, it's kind of disturbing that people are trying to make whole plant foods out to be, you know, not healthy. They're loaded with anti-nutrients. You have a little section in your book where you talk about phytates, oxalates and lectins. I think it'd be helpful if you could just address those, those three things. There's going to be individuals who want to create a way of scarcity or worry or concern, right? That if you eat certain foods, like let's say lectins or phytates, you know, a lot of plants have these in them, right? But when you cook the foods, like let's say beans and lectins, for example, when you cook them to where you can actually eat them, the lectins pretty much dissipate, right? So that worry and that concern is so, and I won't highlight any names, but there are people who have made a living saying you shouldn't eat these plant foods unless you take my supplement, right? You know, my lectin absorber.
[50:07] Wait a minute, let's back up and look at the data from just, there's communities where people live the longest for, you know, hundreds of years. Like going back, people live to be a hundred centurions, like the blue zones. They didn't have to worry about lectins they didn't have the heart disease the cancers all these things that we're dealing with in our current state of health in the united states especially, that's really really important so you shouldn't be afraid of the foods that helped us get like kept us healthy and sustained right so let's actually look at real life examples people get so reductionist and that's where they find fear versus looking back and saying no the whole plant food is absolutely nutrient rich. It's going to be everything that you need. You're going to get your protein. You're going to get all of the macronutrients you need, the carbohydrates, the healthy fats. I mean, if a hippo, an ape, an elephant can eat these plants and sustain amazing muscle mass and live long, healthy lives, why do you think that humans are any different? We're anatomically created to eat plants. I mean, that's the way our teeth work. So I tend to not worry so much what, you know, some influencers trying to say, what I understand is that I speak the truth, I speak from my own experience, and I speak from the science. So if there's some new science that comes out and says something else.
[51:34] There's such a vast for, you know, well over a century of data showing that how plants are very helpful. I mean, like you can go back eons and look at the science. It all says the same thing. The more plants you eat, the healthier you tend to be and in that society as well. And so when I think about that and I hear people, you know, trying to shoot out, spat out, you know, being fearful, be afraid of that and be afraid of this. I do have people we have kind of just like, oh, I just heard about this. I shouldn't be eating beans because of the lectins. Like, let's go back and follow the money. So where does that lead?
[52:05] This is someone, even though they may have the credentials, let's say even a doctor, what is he selling or she selling, right? So why are they saying that? Now, it doesn't mean that all people who sell supplements are evil or anything. Absolutely not. There absolutely is a place for it, like I mentioned before. But don't let that get you off to understand that a whole food plant-based diet absolutely can see it. You see in people's testimonies, right? When you lose 300 pounds, you reverse type two diabetes, you reverse heart disease. There's so much evidence to point the opposite direction. If you have a couple of people who just stand up and say, oh no, this isn't working. What is your credentials and experience to be able to say that? And then what are you promoting? So let me see what's your ecosystem that you're operating out of, right? What is the context of these statements? And then learn to think critically don't just respond and go oh i can't do that now we let's use our this mind that we have to think critically of where's this person coming from and walk away from that that's ridiculous go to places people that you can trust and if you're not you know you're curious ask more questions go do some research if there's so much availability and understanding you know research on hand there's just so much availability there's so much you can do to.
[53:22] Understand that you shouldn't be fearful, right? So ask more questions, use your critical thinking skills. If you don't have critical thinking skills, it's time to develop them. Don't let the fear push you around. But that's what I would say to that, because I just like, I don't even waste my time and energy on those anymore, because I've got so much work. We have so many people who want to get well and understand the message of a plant-based diet that, you know, sometimes people are like, oh, can you do a rebuttal video? I'm like, actually, no, because that's not my personality. I am not going to go after and seek the negativity. All I'm going to do is put out positive because when I do that, that's what I will draw. And so that's where I typically sit on that. It's like, just use your mind. Let's talk this over. Let's talk it through. And you will find if you walk through it, it's like, ah, that makes sense. These foods are very, very healthy for us. All the evidence points to it. This person's making money because they're having lectin inhibitors or whatever it is.
[54:13] That's what I would suggest. Yeah. I like all that a lot. Did you um a friend sent me an article this came out in jama cardiology uh just recently britney looks like you're shaking your head about a floor a 40 plus year old florida man who went on the carnivore diet eight months ago when his blood uh total blood cholesterol was about 210 eight months later it's over a thousand oh my god and and he was eating literally he was eating cheese sticks of butter and hamburgers almost exclusively and he started developing basically these fatty pustules on his palms of his hands and his feet and his elbows i guess where the fat.
[55:02] Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, so it's man, it's it's incredible how people can somehow get swayed into thinking, wow, plants aren't healthy, but man,
Humor: A Tool Against Naysayers
[55:19] butter and cheese and eggs and, you know, meat, bring it on. Anyway, I don't want to go down that path right now. But speaking of some of these influencers and naysayers, you guys have a fantastic whole section on using humor to disarm the naysayers. You got like, I don't know, these brilliant, brilliant one-liners. I mean, can you throw any at me right now in the audience? Yeah, let me pull them out.
[55:53] It's one of them. Yeah, I got there's like literally multiple one liners. So let's see here. Oh, this one. I'd invite you to dinner, but I'm afraid you'd find the lack of complaining unusual. Yeah. But I thought I thought about that argument, but my kale chips were too crunchy to hear it clearly. Yeah. And if you want to get a more snarky, you could say last time I checked my food didn't come with a side of moral dilemma. Um, yeah, so, yeah, so there, oh, this is a good one that you can appreciate being in Esselstyn was sure I'll miss bacon, but not as much as I miss my arteries being clear. So, you know, again, people make snarky responses. You can have these in your back pocket. You're like, wait a minute. I got that perfect response for you. Hold on one second. I'm just like, I found that humor tends to disarm situations and people step back and go, well, I wasn't prepared for that. But again, people are there at, but I sometimes you're just like, you know, I'm just going to put an end to this right now. Certainly not the Doug, the Doug Lyle approach, but this is got a little bit of edge and sassiness to it that that I like.
[57:11] Brittany, you know, you're you're there with your eight month old Paul. I know you guys have a whole big section on kind of how to indoctrinate kids into this lifestyle and also how to have a conversation with younger kids, maybe between the ages of 5 and 12, about mom and dad are going to be going down this route and how do you have that conversation. So would you like to speak to any of that? Yeah. I mean, I'm just starting off. So we'll see when Paul starts like back to me or like giving me a little bit so far. I mean, like he loves sweet potatoes are his favorite thing and avocados and everything we've tried has gone over really well.
[57:57] But, you know, I think Dr. Marbas, you know, she raised, you know, like three teenagers and young adults. So it's nice that we both have both perspectives. Like, you know, I feel very blessed that I was able to be whole food plant-based before he was conceived throughout my pregnancy. And now we're able to like give him, I feel like, a big blessing boost that this is like his normal, um, growing up with us cooking for him this way. Um, but you know, coming to it when you are not whole food plant-based and you have kids and you're finding it later can be a little bit of a different, um, scenario to go through. So Dr. Marbas, it's nice that we have both aspects of it here. Yeah. Yeah. All along the time continuum. them. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, mine were 13, 15 and 18, 13 years ago. And so really, I think there's one rule of thumb is that in the home, we plants, that's plants rule. This is the way it is outside the home. Y'all do what you want.
[58:52] Your body's going to tell you it's going to you'll have a foundation of plants. And when your bodies and those experiences show that you're not feeling well.
[58:59] You'll navigate back to what I'm teaching you here. And then along that way, I educated them, but they were already spending a lot of time in the kitchen already because that's how we raised them and like that just because i'm the mom doesn't mean i'm the only person standing in this kitchen that means that every single person that walks through that door that is a Marbas is going to be in the kitchen at some point and so that's a really important thing is teaching them those skills um how to cook because when you release them into the world they're going to be in this world that we're dealing with right the ultra processed foods the convenience their friends do you really want them not to be you're trying to protect them because you don't want them to be upset what are you doing here you're actually doing more harm in the long run you're setting them up for you know long-term chronic health issues and not the skill set to actually navigate this world and lean back on oh i can cook i know how to make healthy meals that taste good regardless of where we are um that's a really really important thing to teach your kids yeah Brittany how many recipes are in this book there's about 30 so we we don't say this is necessarily a cookbook but a guide recipes but there's so many I mean I was just looking at the buffalo wings with the whole food plant-based ranch and buffalo sauce it's like one of my favorites there are so many good ones in here there's a southwestern salad a breakfast scramble So it's really a good push to get you started.
[1:00:22] And then we have hundreds of recipes on our website and between the healing kitchen. Oh my gosh. I think there's, there's a lot. Yeah. And then Brittany's website and what she does. I mean, there's probably thousands at this point. So, yeah.
[1:00:37] Yeah. Well, I am right now looking, um, at the PDF that you guys sent me of, so Laurie, if you could hold yours up to the ultimate guide for mastering a plant-based diet.
[1:00:52] You know, if any of you just want, Everything from A to Z, I highly recommend you check it out. Is there an easy way to get a copy of this? Where would I go? Amazon. Just type in PLANT-BASED 101. You type in Marbas, Brittany Jaroudi, any of those names, and it'll pop right up. Yeah, we've been really lucky. We've been the number one release in fiber and nutrition. So there's some really cool things to see. And we're getting great feedback from it. But people are like, man, this is just a simple, straightforward, getting to the point manual that that's not been out there because I was like, man, I'm just going to condense everything that we get asked in one place. And if you have deeper questions, we give you those resources, too. Yeah, no, you're right. It's very accessible. And it's what is it about 120 pages? 135 pages, I think. It's not overwhelming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I loved looking through it. And yeah, you guys did a wonderful job with that. Way to be.
[1:02:00] Any departing words from either of you to the PLANTSTRONG audience? No, just thank you for being here. And just understand, you don't have to get overwhelmed with the journey. It's the best journey you can be on. Again, I find it to be the most powerful thing that I can prescribe my patients. It's not going to be a prescription of another pill, but, you know, it's another salad. It's another bean dish. It's one of those things. And you can share this with others and help them. It's so accessible, but you can't be fearful. You can't allow the resistance of people or your own thoughts and worries push you from not doing this. You know, if you're feeling appalling, there's a reason. And so I would say lean into that and don't be afraid. You can do it. Nice. Thank you. Yeah. And I would just say the more plants you can eat, the better. So however you find ways to sneak in all of your plant-based foods, the healthier you'll be.
[1:02:59] Well, Brittany, I hope that Paul, right? Paul is napping and he's going to be in a great mood when he wakes up. I hope so. Yeah. Well, Brittany and Laurie, it was wonderful to have you back on the podcast. Let me know when you write another book. and we'd love to have you back again yeah we're playing around some with some cool ideas around healing habits from the healing kitchen so yeah nice some fun stuff coming so yeah you guys are PLANTSTRONG animals yes we're working on it so on the way out i'd love for you to, do the standard goodbye. And everybody at home, if you're watching this on YouTube, join us right now. Let's do a big virtual PLANTSTRONG fist bump, all right? On the count of three, all right? One, two, three, PLANTSTRONG. All right, you guys, PLANT-BASED 101, go get them.
[1:04:06] I loved so much of the common sense material that was in this book, as well as so many of the humorous takes on how to handle all of those uncomfortable situations that we all find ourselves in from time to time. As many of you know, I've been at this for almost 40 years and still encounter the same questions that many of you do. Plant Based 101 is a confidence book. It's a manual to get started and then a guidebook to stay committed. I want to thank Brittany and Laurie for getting this work out there. And of course, I'll be sure to put links in the show notes on how you can follow these two and then also purchase the book. I want to thank you so much for listening and always, always have confidence in PlantStrong.
Conclusion and Reflections on Plant-Based Living
[1:04:57] The PlantStrong podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones. You can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., and Anne Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.
