#78: Jane Esselstyn - All About the Birds, Bees, Twigs and Berries
Rip welcomes his sister, Jane Esselstyn, back to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
Many know Jane as a charismatic and energetic voice in the whole food, plant-based space, especially alongside her mother, Ann, in their fun YouTube Cooking Channel.
What you may not know is that she is also a registered nurse who uses her charisma and passion to teach sex education to middle schoolers! Jane is an advocate for helping both kids and adults to understand that part of being a healthy grown-up should include a healthy sex life.
It can be awkward to talk about these things and that’s why Jane really shines. She uses a healthy dose of empathy, compassion, and humor to talk about these subjects that both teens and adults are often too embarrassed to talk about.
Listener Note: We do use many of the clinical anatomical words because, as you’ll find out today, one of the components of a healthy sex life is communication. So, let’s start talking about it!
A plantstrong life has many benefits above AND below the belt, and a strong sex life should be one of them.
Episode and PLANTSTRONG Resources:
PLANTSTRONG Meal Planner - use code: STARTFRESH for a 14-Day Free Trial. Yes, you have to enter a credit card - but you won’t be charged if you cancel before the trial ends and that’s a click of a button. Enjoy the test drive and get cooking!
Jane Esselstyn RN is a fresh and charismatic voice on the whole food, plant-based diet. She brings her perspective and passion as a woman, nurse, researcher, and mother to creating on-ramps to the plant-based way of life. Jane is an avid and inventive designer of plant-based recipes and the co-author of The Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease Cookbook with her next-door neighbor, mom, and human firecracker -Ann Esselstyn. Jane and Ann present their work, research, and high-energy demos around the world- and on her YouTube channel. Jane also created the recipe section of #1 NYTimes bestseller, Plant-Strong, and The Seven Day Rescue, by Rip Esselstyn. And she is co-author of The Engine 2 Cookbook.
Women, families, and community drive Jane’s work forward. She is the host of the annual conference: Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease for Women, which is focused on the power of plants! Jane claims, “Prevention is the new cure, and the most powerful, relevant, and protective medicine available”. With full enthusiasm, Jane co-founded Well, Now! Camp – an activity -filled, creative escape for plant-based women warriors, because vitality rocks!
Full Transcript
Jane Esselstyn:
Communication, which sounds so boring, but let me unpack that a little bit because communication with a sexual partner is essential because you need to tell your partner what you know and what you don't know. You need to tell them what you need and what you don't need, what you like and what you don't like. You can't suffer through. You're not there to pleasure somebody. You're there to back and forth. It's both to share.
Jane Esselstyn:
There's nothing that someone wants to do more is than to pleasure their partner. And that goes both ways, and to be pleasured.
Rip Esselstyn:
Season Three of The Plant Strong podcast explores those Galileo moments where you seek to understand the real truth around your health, and dare to see the world through a different lens. This season we honor those courageous seekers who are paving the way for you and me. So, grab your telescope, point it toward your future, and let's get Plant Strong together.
Rip Esselstyn:
Buckle your seatbelt my Plant Strong friends for this episode of The Plant Strong podcast. This is another episode with my razzle, dazzle sister, Jane Esselstyn. Now, many of you may know Jane as a very charismatic and energetic voice in the plant based space, especially alongside my mother, Anne, and their very fun YouTube cooking channel. What you may not know is that she's also a registered nurse who uses her charisma and passion to teach of all the crazy things sex education to middle schoolers.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, Jane is an advocate for helping both kids and adults understand that part of being a healthy grownup should include a healthy sex life. And I know it can be awkward to talk about these things and that is why Jane really shines here. She uses a healthy dose of empathy, compassion, and humor to talk about these subjects that both teens and adults alike are often too embarrassed to talk about.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, today we're going to go there. The birds and the bees, the twigs and the berries, we're going to discuss anatomy and the keys to a plant strong, positive, healthy sex life. You'll even learn what the acronym CUVA means. We also take several questions from members of our Plant Strong community, and yes, we do use many of the clinical, anatomical words because as you'll find out today, one of the components of a healthy sex life is communication.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, let's start talking about it. A Plant Strong life has many benefits above and below the belt. A strong sex life should absolutely be one of them. Welcome Jane Esselstyn.
Rip Esselstyn:
Jane, it's almost like Madonna. You don't even have to say the last name, it's just Jane. Right?
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh God.
Rip Esselstyn:
Jane, but we're going to explore something today that we don't typically explore. We explored it a little bit on season one with Aaron Spitz.
Jane Esselstyn:
Who is the best! He's the best.
Rip Esselstyn:
He's great. We talked about men's sexual health and ED, and that amazing iconic scene in The Game Changers with the three collegiate athletes. But Jane, outside of doing everything you do with all the cookbooks and your cooking, what I think people don't realize is that you also have a number of other talents. And spectacular lectures that you give. One is plant based, or plant strong below the belt, right?
Jane Esselstyn:
Above and below the belt.
Rip Esselstyn:
Above and below the belt. Okay. I think we're going to focus below the belt today. And I think it's appropriate because, to me, sexual education, sexual health, it's a topic that is off the table for a lot of American families, which is unfortunate because I think parents, either they don't know how, they don't know where to begin, they don't do a great job talking about sexual wellness. And it's such an important part of our overall, who we are as human beings, and our health. You've done such a phenomenal job, I think, connecting the dots between sex and plant based nutrition.
Rip Esselstyn:
And even before that you, for whatever reason, had a knack to go into sex education. It's something that you've been teaching to, what? Grade schoolers now for how long?
Jane Esselstyn:
Middle school, yeah. Since, my god Rip, since 1990-ish.
Rip Esselstyn:
1990.
Jane Esselstyn:
30 years in different capacities, for 30 years. I mean, sometimes just limping along one glass, one spring. But yeah, 30 years. Long time.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, and I can't imagine all the spectacular things that you've taught these children, and the amazing questions that they've asked you that I'd love to explore a little bit today. But I'll speak for a man. For me, it's amazing. I'm bumping up against 60, I'm 58, and I will proudly exclaim that I have no erectile dysfunction issues whatsoever, right?
Jane Esselstyn:
Congrats. Congrats.
Rip Esselstyn:
But, it's not the same for a lot of my friends that are in their 40s and their 50s. I don't think it's a psychological issue as much as it's a physiological issue. And, as the saying that Terry Mason coined, I think it was in Forks Over Knives, the Canary in the coal mine for coronary artery disease is ED, right?
Jane Esselstyn:
It's the Canary in the trousers.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's the Canary... Exactly. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Then, with women-
Jane Esselstyn:
I think that was his term. That wasn't my term, that was someone else's term, but Canary in the trousers nails it.
Rip Esselstyn:
But then, with women, I don't know what the equivalent is because it's not quite as obvious. Maybe it's the lack of vaginal secretions, or sexual appetite, I don't know. Maybe we can talk about that as well today, which I'd love to jump into.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
But for starters, I want to start with this because this is season three. Our theme is we're really highlighting trail blazers and courageous kind of pioneers who have paved the way, but they've done it because they had a Galileo moment. Something that kind of solidified their resolve to go down this wholefood, plant based path. And I'm wondering, for you, was there one thing in particular or was it a multitude of things?
Jane Esselstyn:
I mean, heck, you and I kind of have similar stories, like mommy and daddy were going down that road and it made so much sense, and it felt good in our bodies because we were all, fortuitously, we were all athletes and athletic at the time. And it kind of kept us in this level of fitness in body and identity at the same time. So, that was really kind of cool. I just stuck with it because it was easy to eat that way, kind of when you're around it, and I think once you do it, it's so easy. I mean, you and I know, we couldn't keep up eating this way if it wasn't easy.
Jane Esselstyn:
Then, luckily, I married a vegetarian. I swear, I don't think I would have married Bryan if he wasn't a vegetarian. It would have been too much work to try to get him on board. It's so bad. And it just continued being easy.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, and you know my memory is you never were a fan of meat, and even when we were-
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh gosh, yeah. Never.
Rip Esselstyn:
Even when we were maybe 10, 11, 12, 13, we would go to MC... I shutter to say this out loud. But we would go to McDonald's or Burger King and you would take the meat out of the bun, and you would just eat the bun.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah. You know what I actually remember blissfully is that we used to go to those places sometimes. I mean, very occasionally, but I remember styrofoam was kind of part of what they packaged things in. I remember going to Burger King and thinking, "I can't stand hamburgers, I can't stand the meat. But I'll get a hotdog." And they came in those styrofoam hotdog shape, like a mini coffin, you know what I mean? That kind of shape. And I remember secretly hiding the hotdog in the container and taking the straw from someone's drink, putting it on the end, and pretending I was talking on the phone with someone so mommy wouldn't check where my meat was, and she thought I was eating it. But I was hiding it in the fake phone. I remember like-
Rip Esselstyn:
But they didn't have cell phones back then, did they?
Jane Esselstyn:
No, no. I pretended to make it into a little phone. I mean, I remember making a walkie talkie. It was probably walkie talkie thing, like an antenna thingy.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
And I remember thinking, "This is so clever how I'm hiding it in this little mini container, coffin thing."
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah, I did not like meat growing up, which is so random, but I guess, kind of lucky.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Okay, so for you it was easy, you were kind of pulled along and you were never a fan of meat. So, it just made a lot of sense. Now, let's dive into sex ed. So, you've been teaching sex ed in some form or another for over 30 years. What do you think was it that drew you to being a sex ed teacher?
Jane Esselstyn:
That's such an interesting question, especially to talk to you and maybe Ted, Zep, our other siblings about it. I had three brothers growing up, and it was such a blast a lot of the time. But it was, during the puberty years, pretty lonely. You guys would all be doing pull ups, canoodle doodling around, your kind of playing fast ball and just doing your thing. Not that you didn't ever include me in all that stuff, but I remember thinking like, "This is ugh. This girl thing, I mean, I'm fine being a girl. I'm fine with all that, but this is all new and weird and no one else is going through this stuff."
Jane Esselstyn:
Anyway, that all made me feel a little bit like I wish I had had someone to bounce some of these questions off of. But having, oddly, mommy, who was just a... She's just a shot out of a canon with a, "Well, let's talk about periods today at dinner." And I'd be like, "Oh my god, really?" So, mommy would talk about anything and bring anything up, and then there's daddy, who's got the medical, sort of the calm, clear, medical, reasonable, sort of like answer logical, like, "Hey, this all makes such good sense. This is a good sign of health."
Jane Esselstyn:
Anyway, they were interesting, enthusiastic and medical interpretation of all this emotional stuff that I was kind of doing alone. So, I think I felt anchored in mommy's enthusiasm, and comfort and ah! Her just ability to, not shock, but she'll just take anything head on. And then, daddy's capacity to sort of understand and analyze and figure out stuff.
Jane Esselstyn:
So, I think way, way back when it was almost like therapy. That may have been where I gravitated towards understanding what's happening with bodies, and why it's happening with bodies. And yeah, there's emotional stuff going on, but it's, "Okay, and let's talk about it, because it'll only help you." And then, jump forward to when I was in my early 20s, I was applying to medical schools. That's a year long process. When you take the MPAD, and you apply and all this stuff.
Jane Esselstyn:
So, during that year of applying one of our neighbors, Roberta, she taught at this all girl school in Halfway Brown and she said, "Jane, I have to go out of town for a full week." I think a family member was sick out of the country. And she went, she was going to be gone for a good seven days of teaching or more. And she said, "Would you ever take over my health class? It's a sex ed week. Would you mind?" I was like, "I'll take it on." I'm thinking I'm applying to medical school, this should be part of my jam, here we go. And sure enough, I went in and taught for the week and it was a blast!
Jane Esselstyn:
Roberta came back and she said, "Jane, you've done such a great job. Would you mind taking over for the rest of the year while you're waiting for applications?" I was like, "Oh my god, no problem." Then, I got so involved in teaching I ended up not... Well, medical school didn't work out. I've got an interview here, a this there and a nibble there, but never worked out, which is probably for the best. And I end up teaching biology and sex ed, and that was... I mean, that's the rest of the story.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, did you know any other families that you grew up with that you felt were as open in talking about sex, sex ed, sex health, all that stuff?
Jane Esselstyn:
You know what, I mean, I think most people ended up coming to our house, sitting around our Lazy Susan table and talking with us about that stuff because I think we actually had this weird blend of these three boys, you guys. And one daughter, so the conversation leaned more towards that jocularity, that boys have around, "Hey, hey, hey, hey." You know? Their junk, their stuff, everything literally is more out there and exposed and to be played with verbally, and also below the belt, boys more have a tendency to do that than females and girls do. Unless you have a whole bunch of girls. If there were three girls in our family and one boy, then the conversation would have maybe not been, depending on the tone, but not been as much outwardly, unless we were a great gang of gals.
Jane Esselstyn:
But it is something that for some reason our culture is not... does not like to take it head on. I mean, there's so many adult reason behind that, which I think are actually sad. Religion, which there's no doctrine that dictates you should not discuss anatomy, the function of one's body with your kids, as far as I know. And there's just, there's fear around it, and I think it's actually so empowering to take that fear head on and discuss these things. I mean, there's nothing more true than it's awkward. It is awkward, but once you get in there, you've got such freedom and range to talk about it with your kids, with your family, with your partner, with your students if that's what the class is about. And it's so liberating.
Rip Esselstyn:
We'll be right back with Jane, but first, I want to talk about cooking with ease. If you know anything about my family you know that we love to cook simple, plant strong meals and I want to virtually invite you right into our kitchen with the plant strong meal planner. So many of my family's favorite recipes are right there for you to make for your own families, or even make together like we do. Earlier this year we launched a special promotion, and we've been really surprised at how much you've enjoyed it. For the first time, we offered a 14 day free trial to test drive our plant strong meal planner so that you can come in and really kick the tires before deciding if it's right for you.
Rip Esselstyn:
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Rip Esselstyn:
Again, free trial for the first time, and for a limited time, go to the show notes or visit mealplanner.plantstrong.com and enter the code start fresh. Yes, you have to enter a credit card, but you won't be charged if you cancel before the trial ends and that's simply a click of a button. Enjoy the test drive, and get cooking.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, let's get back to my conversation with Jane.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, so as a sex ed teacher, what did you learn about talking about these awkward subjects? What was the reaction of your students?
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh, well I guess just knowing that your class is going to be awkward for the kids I just, I put on my mommy thinking cap and just, you go right into it. So, whenever I started class with kids I'd say, "You guys, my name is Ms. Esselstyn." They struggle with that name for the first 10 minutes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
More with the Ms aspect than the Esselstyn aspect. But I said, "You guys, I'm here because I really want you guys all to have positive healthy sex lives." And they all kind of go, "Oh, oh. Oh okay." So, they can kind of, just starting from there it's like I want you to have this positive, healthy sex life. And the energy I try to put out there is like one of the coolest things in life is to be authentically human, which means that you can do so many things.
Jane Esselstyn:
You can think, and you can move, and you can be athletic, and all these things. But we also have this beautiful part of ourselves that we've been given. It's this sexual part of ourselves, and to have it be a positive, healthy part of your identity when you are ready to engage in that part of your identity is great. It's so great. You share it with someone.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
So, to hinder that and to destroy the beauty of what that is, this authenticity and this vitality, it's just something I hope... I always say later, later, later on in life I want them to know you're still sixth, seventh, eighth grader. You've got ways to go.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, but I think that's perfect, setting the stage by letting them know, "Listen, my goal here is to give you guys, teach you what it means to have a healthy, positive sex life." I mean, what more could you ask for, right?
Jane Esselstyn:
And parents cannot argue with that. And parents are sometimes a sticky wicket.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Can you remember, what were some of the great questions that you've gotten over the years that really you can't ever forget?
Jane Esselstyn:
"How do testicles get inside the condom? It looks like it would hurt." Just kids asking these questions that you're like, "Oh, you poor dear." This is from an adult perspective hilarious that you want to stuff testicles into a condom, but they don't know. I'm like that is such a great question.
Jane Esselstyn:
One kid, "Ms. Esselstyn, I have a question about fallopian pubes." I'm like, "I can't wait to hear your question, but let me just clear up one thing. Fallopian tubes are one thing, and pubes are another thing. So, you actually get two questions with me today." She's like, "Oh, great. Okay." So, the questions are hilarious, and you talk about all this stuff with arousal, but women don't have penises. I'm like, "Yeah, great question. I'm so glad you would point that out. Let's talk about what women do have." And the kids are like, "What?" Anyway.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well so, let me ask you that. Would it be the same thing for adults to have a healthy, positive, sexual life?
Jane Esselstyn:
Absolutely.
Rip Esselstyn:
I mean, if you were going to teach a class, a sex ed class to adults, right? Let's say over the age of 40. What are three topics that you'd want to discuss?
Jane Esselstyn:
I'm so glad you asked that because so often, after I give these presentations to parents, the line to talk at the end is insane, and it ranges from just saying thank you. Occasionally people who are critical, but people who are basically saying, "Hey, could you please, could we have a sex ed class and cocktail hour with you? It would be a riot. We'd learn a ton. There's no other way we'd be able to swallow all the information. Ha, ha, ha. But could we do that?"
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh jeez.
Jane Esselstyn:
So, I was like, "Oh yeah, how great? Cocktails." But the three things that I would include if I was teaching a sex ed class to adults would be so flipping similar to what I teach if I only had three classes to teach to kids.
Rip Esselstyn:
Huh, okay. What would that be?
Jane Esselstyn:
The first one would be communication, which sounds so boring but let me unpack that a little bit because communication with a sexual partner is essential because if you're 14 years old, if you're 104 years old, you need to tell your partner what you know and what you don't know. You need to tell them what you need and what you don't need, what you like and what you don't like. You can't suffer through it. You're not there to pleasure somebody. You're there to back and forth, both be sharing. There's nothing that someone wants to do more is to pleasure their partner, and that goes both ways, to be pleasured.
Jane Esselstyn:
And from the beginning, to know that it's this yin yang, this balance between you and your partner sharing that pleasure, that's key. So, communicating about what you know and what you don't know. Communicate about what you like and don't like. And to be humble about it. Again, this is completely awkward, awkward, awkward, awkward. But if you are there with someone kissing faces, or partially naked or fully naked, you're already totally awkward. So, keep going with it, and it only gets better, and your heart gets stronger and more open. And just more beautiful when you share that stuff. So, communication.
Rip Esselstyn:
Can I chime in there, because I do think that you're spot on there with communication. And intimacy, sexual intimacy, if you don't feel close to your partner, that sexual intimacy is going to be difficult to come by. You're going to want to stay away from it with a 10 foot pole. So, it's almost like you need to have the communication, you need to be clicking, you need to feel connected. Otherwise, sex is probably not going to be on the horizon, and I can't tell you how many people I know that have said, "You know what? It's sad, but I haven't had sex with my wife but two times this year. Or we haven't had sex in years." And it's crazy.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah, and I completely hear you. I was going to get there in my adult-
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, sorry. Sorry.
Jane Esselstyn:
"Adult sex class" here. No, you have to have that emotional connection. That's something that I know, we've got, as you know Rip, we've got three young... Sorry, teenage to early 20 year olds, and they have grown up around all this discussion, all this narrative about you have to have an emotional connection or this sexual experience is completely empty. And you can maybe check something off the list, "Oh, I've kissed somebody." But if you kiss somebody you didn't like, then you just went through with some... It may as well have been your pillowcase, you know?
Jane Esselstyn:
So, having an emotional connection makes it such a richer experience. No matter, again, if you're 14 or 104. So, the other thing is understanding what touching is, or what contact is because there's different ways of touching people. There's the whole puppy pile idea. Growing up with three brothers and you guys were constantly physical with each other. I mean, you guys were always fighting in the backyard, but it was like this puppy pile of just physicality, which our bodies, we seek. We have a dog and if we're sitting on the ground, he comes over and he sits upon us, and just slides down our side because that's what... it's the way that he plays or hugs, or "Hey, you're part of my tribe." It's not sexual. It's a puppy pile, just contact, which makes you feel like you're a part of a tribe. It's a very sort of root Chakra kind of thing.
Jane Esselstyn:
Then, the other kinds of touch, which is like there's massages, different massages, a physical, sort of a therapeutic touch. And if you've got a massage you know it's someone pushing the stress out of your body. Then, of course there's the parental touch, which is the slow, tender, brushing the hair off the brow, which is neurologically just soothing. And you're safe, and this light contact you can actually fall asleep because you can rest, and digest and go to sleep because everything's fine, and your parent is brushing your brow, kind of light touch.
Jane Esselstyn:
Then, there's sexual touch. We all hear that drum beat, and we feel it, and it's something completely different. So, for people, you and your partner, or someone who you're married to or you're committed with, to have daily touch, even if it's not on that drum beat underneath, but physical touch is something that keeps you connected in a physical way. It keeps things open to going through all those different kinds of touch, open to the sexual touch.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's really impressive. I love that. I'm almost like the different levels of touch, and-
Jane Esselstyn:
We're all wired for it, neurologically.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. And how if you can't go from... If the sexual touch is number seven, let's just say there's seven levels or five. I can't remember how many you said.
Jane Esselstyn:
Four.
Rip Esselstyn:
You can just go from zero to-
Jane Esselstyn:
You like the number seven a little too much with your 7-day rescue.
Rip Esselstyn:
I do, I do, I do.
Jane Esselstyn:
But there were four different ones. There's probably a million. There's probably a million different touches.
Rip Esselstyn:
There probably are. But let's just say there's seven. You can't just go from zero to seven. You can, but you know what? It's going to be difficult and it's probably not... So, I think you work on one, two, three, four, five, six. Then, it makes seven that much more just kind of natural and it just kind of flows.
Rip Esselstyn:
But anyway, I like that a lot.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah, so daily touch is a huge part of it. Then, another part that I think, and this is kind of speaking a little more to males. But, I also want to speak about females after this. But, in males, and to some degree females, this is really trying to not have pornography be a part of... It's not a reliable teacher, and it actually can sadly have people develop erectile dysfunction. It's something called PIED, which is porn induced erectile dysfunction, and it's a real thing. And since it's as new as the internet is we don't have a ton of research because it's about this sad topic for people to discuss, to share, disclose about.
Jane Esselstyn:
But, what happens is people over the age of roughly 26 to 30 or so, people who didn't grow up necessarily with the internet. They can get over, they can heal, if you will, from or come back from this PIED, this porn induced erectile dysfunction because their inner most wiring was not raised by porn. But people who are under 26, they seem to be, they're young, healthy males, but they need to have... It's almost like alcoholism. They need to just refrain from pornography for like four, five, six months to get the dopamine, the rewiring in their brain come back from his erectile dysfunction situation.
Jane Esselstyn:
So, porn is not going to go away. I'm not saying no porn. But I'm saying do your darned-est to tell your kids, tell yourself, tell your friends, tell your buddies, tell your cousin, anybody who's in a relationship with a male, your partner, no matter who you're with; share with them that porn is not going to help them be a better lover, partner because it's oftentimes has expectations for your partner and yourself that are not realistic. It does things that are actually harmful and hurtful to their partner in heterosexual and often in gay pornography.
Jane Esselstyn:
So, it's a rough topic to talk about, but I talk about it with all my sixth, seventh and eighth graders, so I'm totally going to share it with you guys, that avoiding porn as much as you can is only going to help your sex life.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Jane, I love those three little pieces of advice. Communication, touch, the different levels of touch, and then lastly, basically put the kibosh on the porn.
Jane Esselstyn:
Because I didn't talk about women yet, though. I didn't get to that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay, okay, okay, okay.
Jane Esselstyn:
And one thing that I learned in teaching middle school sex ed has been really effective, and shockingly it's landed with such appreciation with adults is when we talk about anatomy and stuff with kids. Everyone gets the bat, balls, the twigs and the berries and the boys, and the below the belt stuff, and they're laughing and congealing and ha, ha, ha with all that stuff. And having, again, three brothers I'm still familiar with all that just "ha, ha, ha, ha". It's all good, funny, goofy energy around it, especially in the middle school years for goodness sake.
Jane Esselstyn:
And then, I would say, "Okay, great. We're finishing up with the male anatomy, and we're going to talk female anatomy now." And, as soon as we start the female anatomy it would be like crickets. You'd have this symbol on the board of the uterus and the fallopian tubes and the ovaries, and everyone's looking at them wide eyed, quiet, thinking, "Where the heck is that? There's pleasure there? That's fun? Where is it? Where do girls keep that thing? Can you see it?" And the girls would be like, "I have no idea where that is." Maybe some kids obviously did, but...
Jane Esselstyn:
I've realized we need to talk about female anatomy completely differently. We need to turn them sideways and sort of cross section it, cut it in half. So, I would draw my own horrible drawing. I'm not a great drawer, but I'm a confident drawer. So, of course, I draw my male anatomy stuff too, which it's always, "That's too big! That's too small! That's too pointy! That's too skinny! That's too big." They had the funniest comments about my anatomy. I loved it. I don't care, just as long as they're looking at it. The drawing, that is.
Jane Esselstyn:
So, my female anatomy on the board in side view I would say, "Okay, in the back, back here, in the bottom, there's a whole that starts with an A." They'd be like, "What?" I'm like, "What starts with an A back here? Women and men both have it. Girls and boys both have it. We all need it. If we didn't poop, we'd die. Where's our poop come out of?" They're like, "Oh my god, anus." So, you have the anus.
Jane Esselstyn:
In front of the anus, there's another hole, and this hole is the reproductive hole and it starts with a V. And this is the vagina, this is where three big things happen in a female's lifetime if she chooses. Well, not always if she chooses, but this is where she has her period. When her menstruation starts, this is where it comes out of because above here is the uterus where a baby grows. Actually, if she chooses to have sexual intercourse in her life this is where the penis is hosted during that act. And this is where baby will come out of if she has a baby one day. So, those are the three things this reproductive thing is, it's right here, there's a V.
Jane Esselstyn:
They're like, the kids are like, "Oh, okay." And then, I say, "In front of this is another hole. A teeny, tiny, itty, teeny, weeny hole. Non expandable, tiny, tiny, hard to even find hole where she pees from. This is the urethra. So, we're going to put a U here for urine, for urethra." By this time, the seventh grade boys, eighth grade boys are like, "Wait a minute, she has so many holes. I cannot believe this. How many holes do women have? This is crazy. How many holes do I have?"
Jane Esselstyn:
Like, "Okay, you guys know you have one hole, you guys." But the girls, like the boys, they have an anus, and then the vagina and the urethra. But then when I come in and say, "You guys, there's more." And they're like, "No way!" "Yep, one more thing here." And, this is 8,000 nerves for sexual pleasuring. It's not a hole, it's just a little button. Little bit of tissue here in front. It's just like the head of the penis, it's the exact same number of nerves. Your whole penis shrunken down into a concentrated button right here, and it's called the clitoris, or the clitoris, or the clit, whatever you want to call it.
Jane Esselstyn:
So, the letters I've spelled out for you here, I usually have a visual aid but I know this is a podcast, so it spells out CUVA, clitoris, urethra, vagina, anus. And the order of events, if you will, on a female's body from front to back, CUVA, has always been my way of talking about female anatomy with middle school students. And I do it whenever I can talk to adults and talk about even plant based stuff. I always get CUVA in there somehow. I will always wedge it in there because-
Rip Esselstyn:
It's practically your nickname is CUVA.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh yeah. Love it, love it, love it. Yeah, T-shirts are available.
Rip Esselstyn:
CUVA T-shirts, exactly.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, are those in men and women sizes or just-
Jane Esselstyn:
I've only had one man order a CUVA T-shirt and he was Canadian, bless his Canadian heart. I remember him. He was great.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'd wear one very proudly. I need to get one.
Jane Esselstyn:
People think it's like the Cleveland United Vegetarian Association, or something like that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Perfect fit.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but no, just the truth is it's not that. So, anyway, so talking about CUVA like that simply lets women, females, know and most importantly, males know that women have the exact same capacity that men do. The penis is for your urination, reproduction and sexual pleasure. Women have the same stuff. We have urination through our urethra. Reproduction and vagina. Sexual pleasure, clitoris, clit up here in front.
Jane Esselstyn:
As a sex ed teacher I would leave that CUVA on the board for as long as I could so the ink would stain into the white board, and you couldn't really erase it. So, the CUVA kind of was there the whole few weeks of the sex ed unit. But getting that out as soon as possible was essential because again, pornography plays this role in making kids think, and kids so young, they innocently go, "what is kissing? What is sex? What is..." And boom, you can't believe what they've seen. It's things they cannot unsee and it's really troubling, especially if you haven't had the discussion with your kids, like pornography is something that is not... Your head and your heart can't handle it. It's out there on the internet. You know the internet is a tricky, tricky landscape, and for a positive, healthy sex life in your own life, you don't want to watch this stuff.
Jane Esselstyn:
You want to just figure out who you are, and what you like, and what gets you going. But, for female/female or females with males, again, communication about female pleasure is a big, sticky wicket because no one has really talked about that. With my middle school kids I talk about, well an erection is the form of readiness for a male and vaginal lubrication is a form of readiness for the female. And they've never... Everyone has heard of a boner or an erection. No one has talked about or heard about lubrication.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right.
Jane Esselstyn:
They haven't heard the word. They don't know. They're like, "What does it do? Why? What does it look like?" All these questions about it.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, can we dive into talking about that?
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay, so let's, for men, right? Let's say that you're a man and you notice that you're starting to experience some erectile dysfunction. Do you have any suggestions for that man?
Jane Esselstyn:
Well, like you said in the beginning, Terry Mason's comment, that this is the Canary in the trousers, and this really could be an indication that there is some vascular disease going on if you have ruled out that it's not for psychological reasons. Job loss, or some sort of family issue or whatever. Millions of things could happen psychologically or a neurological issue. People can have pinched nerves and things that they don't know about, or that are actually getting in the way.
Jane Esselstyn:
So, if you rule out those things, physical and neurological, then yeah, the vascular issue could really be what's going on. And it could be an indicator of something that could happen with your heart, and going on a wholefood, plant based diet we've seen so many people turn that thing around. Make that crouching tiger into a hidden dragon.
Rip Esselstyn:
Roar.
Jane Esselstyn:
Making that little garden worm into the anaconda.
Rip Esselstyn:
Crouching dragon into a puff the magic dragon.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah. Exactly. I had one kid who said his uncle was a really fun character in his life. He was like, "He would always leave Easter be like, 'I got to go home because the blood bank's about to open'."
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh jeez.
Jane Esselstyn:
Joking about his blood flow.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, what about women? What about women, and how does that typically present itself? And men, if it's Ed, how does it present itself in women?
Jane Esselstyn:
Women, obviously, are different and a more complicated... Laid out differently. But we are all made from the same legos. I mean, I always say men have nipples, why? Well, because when we're all in utero we're all given the exact same legos, and then our biological gender has been chosen. So, all the things that make up some of the anatomy that we're culturally more familiar with, penis and testicles, scrotum and all that stuff. That same material is what women, females are made up of.
Jane Esselstyn:
Like we mentioned earlier, the head of the penis, the GLANS, G-L-A-N-S, is actually the same neurological tissue as the head of the clitoris. It sticks out of her body externally, but internally, the two shafts. There's two sides to the shaft of the penis. They're both called corpus cabrinosa, corpus body cabrinosa, just it will expand with blood. And that corpus cabrinosa tissue is actually inside a woman. Just imagine if the clitoris inside her body had bunny years that could grow back, these two set of bunny ears that could grow back and hug around the vaginal space. They're called the crura, which is a strange word to add to the strange language that's unfamiliar with us all down below the belt for her.
Jane Esselstyn:
But the crura is a corpus cabrinosa and it engages with blood flow. So, the more she's engaged in intimacy the more foreplay. Yes, I talk about foreplay with middle school kids because it is so important in their life to understand you don't just go from A to Z. I had one kid describe, I said, "You guys, who wants to take a stab at sexual intercourse?" I'll get back to my other thing I'm trying to finish in a second. I had one kid answer, "Oh, I know what sex is. I can talk about sexual intercourse." He said, "It's kiss, kiss, boom, boom." And everyone cracked up, and he got so much praise for that.
Jane Esselstyn:
I was like, "You know what? I'm glad you said that. It sounds a little bit like rape, or unconsensual activity." And he was like, "uh". I said, "Yeah, because there's so much more that goes on between the kiss and the boom." He's like, "Okay, what do you mean?" I was like, "I'm talking about foreplay." He's like, "Okay, what is foreplay?" And it was one of those great, confident kids that just brings the whole class with him. So, foreplay was awesome because I said it's getting the juices going and blood flowing, and everybody, all of their body so they're ready to go.
Jane Esselstyn:
In a female... In a male it takes a while for the boner to happen, doesn't it? And they're like, "Well, uh, uh, well, are we timing things?" I'm like, "Don't talk to me about timing things." But for women, the longer she's able to have blood flow go down there and get all this tissue engorged, it actually wraps around the vaginal space because what female lubrication is made up of is plasma and some lady chemicals. So, plasma comes directly from that blood flow. So, if all those capillaries, all those little capillaries leading around the vaginal, old term, but the vaginal barrel, the vaginal space. All those tissues can be engorged with blood and then, blood flow and plasma come in and make a lubrication and hooray, she's ready to go.
Jane Esselstyn:
Some women actually do have issues when they get to menopause with severe vaginal dryness, which needs to be addressed to keep into her life and pain in intercourse. That has some pain attached to it. But, to tie into that and I'll go more adult now, is the more you use it, the better. If you don't use it, you're going to lose it, and the vaginal walls, the integrity of the walls, the more they're lubricated, the more they're engaged with blood flow the healthier that space will be. Not just the pelvic floor, but the vaginal space itself.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, you know how daddy loves talking about nitric oxide, right? And how it's the great vasodilator, life jacket of blood vessels or endothelial cells. What, in your opinion, how does nitric oxide impact sexual health?
Jane Esselstyn:
Tremendously, for him and for her. Him, obviously you don't want to raise a soggy flag. You want to raise a flag! You want to, what's that called? Switch blade.
Rip Esselstyn:
Sure.
Jane Esselstyn:
So, that is a huge help with males because as soon as that, almost all of the vasculature... I talked, actually I had a long talk with Aaron Spitz. I know you had him on recently.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh yeah, yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
But I had a long talk with him, and afterwards he had a great long talk, and he said, "I love your visuals. And I really want you to do this, this and this." He had all these ideas and things, and he said, "You nail it." But it isn't just the penile artery, and the penile vein that are expanding because whenever an artery expands the vein next to it, below the belt for men, it contracts. So, they can't get blood back to the heart. That's why erections happen, because you have waves of dilation happening. You've got nitric oxide being released. There you go. You have an erection.
Jane Esselstyn:
But it happens all over the penis. Every single vessel covering the whole thing, from stem to stern, from root to tip.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right.
Jane Esselstyn:
That is mini vasculature everywhere. It isn't just one main vein. I mean, obviously there's a main vein, but there's that, and then where it branches of to. And all those little teeny, teeny, teeny, teeny, teeny tiny ways it's happening. So, that can be effected in such great ways if people go on a wholefood, plant based, or male goes on a wholefood, plant based diet because he wants to increase the firmness of his erections. He will have benefits-
Rip Esselstyn:
Don't you think that'll equally effect the lubrication of women?
Jane Esselstyn:
It's a little more complicated with women, just because there is... She has her history of pregnancies, delivers, and things that can... because the vagina dilates with every birth, and the vaginal walls have to... There can be that dilation injuries and things. So, there's different history that lives there because of her fertility history. And being sexual is a habit. Again, if you create this habit of being sexual with your partner, it's going to be healthier for you guys, physiologically of course. It's going to be healthy for you guys in your hearts and your relationship, of course. And it's good for just spirit.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anecdotally, what are some stories you've heard about men and/or women when they start eating a wholefood, plant based diet then turning around their sex life?
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh. Maybe you've heard that. I have heard great stories about people just saying how, I'll start with men, men saying how thankful they are for this part of their identity. Men, like anybody, a man wants to be a whole man. He wants to be a whole man. He wants to be able to have an erection. He's identified with it his whole life. It's this thing that he... It's such a huge part of him and what we can do with it. I mean, even somebody who hasn't had maybe sexual intercourse for a while probably still wants to have the capacity to do so. Or, even just give himself pleasure.
Jane Esselstyn:
And for women, it's-
Rip Esselstyn:
Wait, before you go on to women, can I add? Because remember, in the Engine 2 cookbook, we have a lot of testimonials from men and women in there. And there was a guy in there that starting eating this way, and he'd been eating Paleo before that and he said Paleo makes my penis sadio, and this way, oh my god, he was like, "Katie, bar the door. Watch out. I'm knocking over lampshades when I get up in the morning." He was awesome.
Jane Esselstyn:
Share what he said about he could do a push up with no hands.
Rip Esselstyn:
The human tripod, I think it was, something like that.
Jane Esselstyn:
Or just the uno pod. He could just do a push up with no hands because he could hold himself up.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
Jane Esselstyn:
Anyway.
Rip Esselstyn:
So women.
Jane Esselstyn:
So, women, I have gotten the most spectacular testimonials from women. I mean, but I want to say, opposite of all these testimonials, I've gotten so many women who are concerned. I have pain, I have dryness, all this stuff. So, just all kinds of good hope that good blood flow will get there, and stick with it. Stick with it. And also, stick with it pelvic floor exercises, because there is so much that goes into female sexual pleasure and it's not, again, talked about. But there's so many muscles down there, so yes Kegels but deep Kegels.
Jane Esselstyn:
So, women, we've had women, you actually get the emails too. My husband's going to be late for work. I can't get enough of him. My blood flow is just... It's all I feel these days, and he's late every day. He's going to lose his job. Yikes. Another woman who wrote us a dear letter, she was 69 years old. She had lost 100 pounds eating wholefoods, plant based and she-
Rip Esselstyn:
That was an Engine 2 person.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah. And she said, yeah, exactly, she said, "I can't get enough of my husband lately for the last month. I'm all over him. Thank you so much." But most recently, I love the one I most recently got. A woman who was in her 60s-ish. She'd been wholefood, plant based for three years, and she hadn't had a sexual partner since she started plant based. But then, she did have a partner recently and she said, "Oh my god, you tell everyone. I mean, you need to tell everyone this Jane. I just had the most mind blowing sexual experience. I mean, blood has gotten to these new and exciting places and I had pleasure over, and over, and over again. Give me more of that, over and over again." She had multiple orgasmic, wow, kapow, which I don't think everyone is going to maybe get that brand, but she did. And she's done a ton of work with yoga and whatnot to strengthen her whole body and core, and pelvic floor.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Jane, let's pivot for a sec. I want to ask you some questions from our community. They found out that I was interviewing you today for the podcast, and so we-
Jane Esselstyn:
Okay, I hope you take... I mean, you have so much exposure to people and their questions, so I hope that you answer some of these as well because I don't, by any means, know...
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, let's just answer these together. So, this first question is from Elizabeth. She wants to know, Jane, any thoughts on diabetes and sexual health for women?
Jane Esselstyn:
If she's talking about type two diabetes, she will get such great benefits to her addressing a type two diabetes for herself or her partner, I don't know who she's talking about.
Rip Esselstyn:
Let's just say herself. I think it's herself, yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
Okay. Such benefits to her blood sugar, her responsiveness of her cells to her glucose. She'll also get great responsiveness down there as this blood flow can reach all these, again, new and exciting places. So, I think go, go, go.
Rip Esselstyn:
The second half of her question is, Jane, what are your thoughts on me dating at 60 years old?
Jane Esselstyn:
Hell yeah! Why not?
Rip Esselstyn:
Kale yeah! Kale yeah!
Jane Esselstyn:
Kale yeah!
Rip Esselstyn:
Get after it. Absolutely.
Jane Esselstyn:
It's such a beautiful part of who you are, and that we're all allowed to be, and go. What was her name?
Rip Esselstyn:
That was Elizabeth.
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh yeah, go Elizabeth.
Rip Esselstyn:
Go Elizabeth. Yeah. All right, here's a question from Marique, I think is how you pronounce her name. I would be really interested in hearing about plant based eating and how it helps reduce menstrual symptoms, mood swings, bloating, cramps. And we've got several questions along those lines.
Jane Esselstyn:
Well, that's a great question because eating wholefood, plant based is great because then, you're only dealing with your own estrogen load, if you will. If you're eating dairy and meat, you have not only the meat, which is the body of usually a cow that was full of estrogen when she died after being a dairy cow. Or, if you're drinking or using dairy in anyway, you're actually drinking the breast milk of a cow that was filled with estrogen. So, when you go on a wholefood, plant based diet you don't have all this extra estrogen in your body messing up with your own hormones. Plus, you're eating all this high fiber food, so your body gets rid of all this food so much faster, so there's none of these foods that dairy and meat are not sitting in your intestines and you're absorbing, absorbing and reabsorbing all this estrogen that's sitting in your gut.
Rip Esselstyn:
Hmm.
Jane Esselstyn:
... for all this time. You're actually pooping it right out. You're just pooping it right out. So, you're not over absorbing. It really helps steady out some of those symptoms. I mean, you will occasionally get cramps, you will occasionally get a heavy flow, but our own brain and body and feedback systems that regulate our own cycles. And to make it be as much as possible your own chemistry is best.
Rip Esselstyn:
Hmm. Jane, my husband and I are trying to conceive and we've heard the plant based diet may help with that. Can fertility be improved on a wholefood, plant based diet?
Jane Esselstyn:
I would recommend you talk with a plant based OBGYN, for sure. I know, Rip, our sister-in-law, Anne Bingham, is an OBGYN and she just spoke at my conference two days ago. She was all about this. Yes, yes, fiber filled food helps everything be supple and open, and not inflamed, and you want to be as supple and open and not inflamed as possible if you're trying to conceive. And sometimes women have these things called fibroids. I know we have hemorrhoids and we have steroids and all these things. But fibroids are a different thing. Fibroids tend to grow inside a woman's uterus.
Jane Esselstyn:
Every month we have this beautiful layer that proliferates of this beautiful next of tissue and blood that's just like, "Hey, we're going to have a party. We'll grow a baby. Yay. With all these decorations. Just puffy, puffy blood, tissue." Then, the month comes around, there's no sperm, thank goodness. I'm saying for the middle school kids. And the party ends and all the stuff flows out.
Jane Esselstyn:
Sometimes in females, as we get older, if you've had a lot of dairy and things that cause fibroids or just thickening of all this tissue, they grow down like stalactites. They grow like those drippings in caves, and they end up blocking the uterus or having the uterus feel like there's some intruder in there and you can't get pregnant. So, you want to get those fibroids to go away. A wholefood, plant based diet, many people have had success with reversing fibroid issues and having those clear up. So, I don't know if that's an issue with you, but I recommend you speak with an OBGYN who understands wholefood, plant based nutrition.
Jane Esselstyn:
Many OBGYNs are now certified with ACLM, which is the American College of Lifestyle Medicine. They would be able to help you way better than this middle school sex ed teacher, who makes cookbooks.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, to me that makes a ton of sense, Jane, and when you're eating a clean, wholefood, plant based, anti-inflammatory diet that you're going to be much in the likelihood to be fertile and grow a little one. Jane, here's a question. I'm entering my 60s and I'm post menopausal. My sex drive has decreased a lot. I can't help but think that this is a natural part of aging. Do you think that's the truth?
Jane Esselstyn:
I don't know if this person has a partner? Do they have a partner?
Rip Esselstyn:
Don't know. I don't know.
Jane Esselstyn:
Well, again, like we've mentioned, we've said a couple times today is being sexual with your partner is a habit. It's something that you... You wake up and say, "Hey, tonight we have a date. 9:30, let's both be there. Game on. Let's go." And it's just those little expectations throughout the day that you're going to have this moment together. Plan it, make a habit out of it. Create it.
Jane Esselstyn:
We're all sexual beings. It's in there. It's in you. Get a half cup of KY, why not? Throw it in there, go at it. AstroGlide. I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever say coconut oil in your here, but coconut oil down there, fine. And I have a whole bunch of lubrication I can recommend. That is not always the issue for someone, it's just getting game on. Knowing you're a sexual being might even help. Crack the ice, get in there. Get in there. Swim in those waters again.
Rip Esselstyn:
Nice, nice. Jane, here's a person, they've been plant based for over a year now. Is there something that you can recommend for hot flashes/night sweats. Thanks. And I don't know how old this person is.
Jane Esselstyn:
They're probably somewhere in their 40s to 80s.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jane Esselstyn:
If they're having this, or maybe a little earlier than that, younger than that. Just like we said with the menstruation stuff. If puberty and getting into your fertile years is like this, and then getting out of it is getting out like this, it's a rough road coming in. I mean, voice changing, pimples, all these things, growing pains, buds in there. Getting off all that, it's a bumpy road. And to make it less of a bumpy road, so there's not as many hot flashes or less extreme hot flashes, please don't put any extra hormones in your body, which come from meat and dairy.
Jane Esselstyn:
And if you have a really rich diet, rich meal one night with lots of oil and stuff, that also can somehow trigger, I've had heard women say that they get a little bit of warm wind when they do that. Just they get a flash with that. So, I think having a wholefood, plant based diet helps distinguish some of that, but it is also something that won't last forever. So, just try to stick with it and see if it helps diminish it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Jane, here's a question. I'll try and tackle this first and then, you can add on. I have a question that I really hope that you would have a suggestion for. What do you do in a long term marriage, 30 plus years, with a partner who has been ill for many years, so no sex, but also, we don't have any intimacy at all, except a quick hug in passing. This has become really depressing since the lockdown, not even seeing the grandkids or other family members since we both have health risks.
Rip Esselstyn:
So, my suggestion to this person is just, I'm going to go back to your three suggestions that you gave for adults. Number one is honest communication, open communication. The second is the different levels of touch. So, I think you need to start touching again, even if it's just as simple as putting your arm around each other, holding hands. One of the things that I see, Jane, you and Bryan doing a lot that I think is great is giving each other foot massages when you're watching TV or something. You just massage that foot, or you do a little hand massage.
Rip Esselstyn:
But I think that those are little small acts of intimacy that can then lead to something else. Or, if not, at least now you're getting that intimacy.
Jane Esselstyn:
Cracking ice, crack the ice.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, anything you want to add to that?
Jane Esselstyn:
Oh no, I think that that was well addressed, but also, it's awkward. Just it is awkward and you make yourself vulnerable, and if you're with your partner, that's the one person that you're closest with. Sometimes we just hold things against our partners, but that's your partner. This is your life, and it might not happen overnight, but start with, like you said, just start with these little small acts that can lead to something better. And if everyone's physical health is okay, and everyone's mental health is able to handle it, then there you go. But couple's counseling could be in that mess of recipes too, I'd say.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). So, Jane, this has been very exciting hour and-
Jane Esselstyn:
Hardly talked about any food at all.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's, well I think most people know what we're talking about here with the wholefood, plant based diet.
Jane Esselstyn:
That's great news.
Rip Esselstyn:
But, let me ask you this. So, what's going on with you, and what's the most exciting thing that you have in your horizon right now that you'd like for people to know about? Any projects you're working on, or-
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah, what's really exciting is that, as you obviously know Rip, mommy, Anne, our mother. Mommy and I are working on our next book, which is so exciting after all this talk about women and stuff, I actually am excited to share. The book's working title is Be a Plant Based Woman Warrior: Be Strong, Be Fierce, Be Delicious.
Rip Esselstyn:
Ooh ooh.
Jane Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. So, that's all. We have everything due to the publisher by summertime-ish. And it probably will come out, we hope, 2022. It'll be so nice to have it be able to be a book around which we could gather with some women live.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thanks Jane for providing such an in depth conversation with clarity and compassion. Good health starts with honest communication, and I hope this conversation initiates opening some of those doors for you and yours. No doubt we'll be having more conversations like these in the near future. Next week, we talk health from a different subject, our harmful addiction to salt.
Rip Esselstyn:
I sit down with author, Michael Jacobson to discuss his new book, Salt Wars: The Battle Over The Biggest Killer in The American Diet. You'll definitely want to check it out. Thanks for listening, and take care.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thank you for listening to The Plant Strong podcast. You can support the show by taking a quick minute to follow us wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. Leaving us a positive review and sharing the show with your network is another great way to help us reach as many people as possible with the exciting news about plants. Thank you in advance for your support. It means everything.
Rip Esselstyn:
Have you had your own Galileo moment that you'd like to share? What happened when you stepped into the arena and shed the beliefs that you thought to be true? I'd love to hear about it. Visit plantstrongpodcast.com to submit your story and to learn more about today's guest and sponsors.
Rip Esselstyn:
The Plant Strong podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Ami Macky, Patrick Gavin, and Wade Clark. This season is dedicated to all of those courageous truth seekers who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision, and hold firm to a higher truth. Most notably, my parents, Dr. Caldwell B Esselstyn Jr and Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks for listening.
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