#108: Fiona Oakes - Going the Distance for Humanity
We'd be hard-pressed to find someone as authentic and true to herself as Fiona Oakes. Vegan for almost 50 years, she is one of the original game-changers and shining examples of the power of being a plantstrong athlete.
Fiona has made a name for herself as an endurance runner, earning four Guinness World Records. She is also the fastest woman in the world to run a marathon on all seven continents and the North Pole in both cumulative and elapsed time.
She has competed internationally in more than 50 marathons and set five marathon course records around the globe, including The Antarctic Ice Marathon. In 2015, Fiona ran six official marathons in six days on six continents all on a vegan diet.
Fiona’s achievements are made even more astounding due to the fact she was told at age 14 that she would never walk properly, let alone ever run, after undergoing 17 radical knee surgeries which ultimately led to having her entire right kneecap removed.
Her only mission? To raise awareness for the plight of animals and veganism across the globe. Her suffering is intense, but you'll quickly understand that her rewards come from saving the lives of the animals she serves at her own Farm Sanctuary - Tower Hill Stables.
For most of us, this lifestyle may seem extreme or radical. She avoids simple pleasures in life like TV, long baths, or massages because they're a distraction to her life's work.
Truly, as she says, her goal is for all of us to go out there and lead a happy and healthy vegan life, respect all life, and realize that we're all so intricately connected --The planet, the environment, each other. "I just want us to be good to each other." So simple and so beautiful.
The world needs more people like Fiona Oakes who are going the distance for humanity.
Episode Resources
Running for Good - Film Website
Fiona Oakes Foundation Website
PLANTSTRONGFoods.com - Order our new popcorn and dessert-inspired granolas
Our Virtual PLANTSTOCK Returns September 8-12th - Register today
About Fiona Oakes
Fiona Oakes somehow finds time to be both an elite marathon runner and a carer of over 500 animals at the Sanctuary she founded in 1996 - Towerhill Stables Animal Sanctuary. Proving that vegans are some of the most energetic people around.
Fiona has competed in over 100 marathons and finished in the top 20 in two of the world's Major Marathon series (Berlin and London), along with winning the Main Start and placing top 20 in the Great North Run.
In conjunction with an illustrious road Marathon running career in 2012 Fiona became the first vegan woman to complete the grueling Marathon de Sables - a race she has completed twice more since - and in 2013 won the North Pole Marathon (yes, at the North Pole!) and it's 'sister' race the Antarctic Ice Marathon. She now holds four Guinness recognized World Records in endurance events including being the fastest woman to run a Marathon on every Continent.
Fiona's whole life has been dedicated to the promotion of veganism in a positive, proactive and peaceful way and she is living proof of its sustainability, longevity, and viability for both mental and physical wellbeing.
Full Transcript
Fiona Oakes:
I'm not an adrenaline junkie, I'm not an adventure seeker, I'm none of those things. I was there with a very, very definite agenda. Just to prove, to show people, not to force people, but just to make this a fact. That if you do have any ideas that vegans are weak, or can't sustain performance, or can't operate in over endurance. I can, and you can too, if you choose to take this lifestyle.
Rip Esselstyn:
Season 3 of the PLANTSTRONG Podcast explores those Galileo moments where you seek to understand the real truth around your health, and dare to see the world through a different lens. This season, we honor those courageous seekers who are paving the way for you and me, so grab your telescope point it towards your future, and let's get PLANTSTRONG together. Our 10th anniversary Plant-Stock celebration is online and on sale. Grab a friend and join us virtually from September 8th to the 12th. As we honor all the progress that's been made over the last decade, with the science, with the food, and with the movement as a whole. It is nothing short of phenomenal, what has happened. This will be the perfect way to invite that family member who desperately needs a green leafy intervention to come take a drink from the fire hose and learn everything they can about the why and the how of PLANTSTRONG living.
Rip Esselstyn:
And in honor of our 10th anniversary and as part of my mission to reach as many people as possible with the good news about plants. Group tickets are just $10 a piece, when you buy five. 10 bucks gets you access to life-changing information to help start or strengthen your PLANTSTRONG journey. Our lineup this year includes the ultimate broc stars. Can you say T. Colin Campbell, Caldwell Esselstyn, Dr. Michael Greger, Dr. Michael Klaper, Kristi Funk, Will Bulsiewicz, the Sherzai's, The list goes on, and on, and on. Don't miss out visit plantstrong.com/plantstock to sign up today.
Rip Esselstyn:
Hey everyone, this is Rip Esselstyn, the host of the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. And I've got a really special episode for you today. This may be the most remarkably authentic conversations that I've ever had with another person on the podcast. And this conversation is with Fiona Oaks. She and I talk for about 90 minutes, and if you're willing to listen to all 90 minutes, I think you'll understand exactly what I'm talking about here. Fiona gives absolutely everything she has to the advocacy work that she's doing for the animals at the farm sanctuary she runs in the UK called Tower Hill Stables Animal Sanctuary. And across the globe, including satellite sanctuaries in Afghanistan and Russia. And she's one of the premier runners on the planet. She is now in her mid fifties. She has four Guinness Book of World Records.
Rip Esselstyn:
She is the fastest woman to run a marathon on all seven continents. She has a PR in the marathon of two hours and 38 minutes. She's run marathons in both the North pole and Antarctica. She has done the Marathon des Sab, which is 156 mile run through the Sahara Desert. It's completely self-supported, she's done that three times. There's actually a documentary that was made about her called Running For Good. And I highly recommend that everybody watch, but she is the hardest working woman that I have ever encountered. She wakes up at 3:30 AM every day to feed close to 600 animals, she goes to bed at 10:00 PM. And in between there, she finds time to run a hundred miles a week. She typically eats one meal a day in the evening. She doesn't have time for bathing, so she takes a very quick shower.
Rip Esselstyn:
She really seems to thrive on suffering and pain, which you'll understand when you listen to this episode. And she does everything, everything for the animals, and to spread the vegan message, and for us to lead a cruelty free life. I am convinced that by listening to this, it will make you and all of us more compassionate and better humans, so thank you, Fiona Oaks. I loved this conversation and I so admire the fantastic work that you are doing, thanks.
Rip Esselstyn:
Fiona Oaks, I want to welcome you to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. It's an absolute pleasure to have you on season three of the show. And let me just start by asking you Fiona. I don't think I know anyone else that's a Fiona in my life, is that kind of common over in the UK?
Fiona Oakes:
Not common. My mom chose the name. It was quite unusual when she chose it, but she just loved it. And we've got Scottish background and it's a Scottish name, so yeah. Yeah, it's not mega common, but it's not unique or unusual.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right. Right. I think the only other time I've heard Fiona is in the Shrek movies, I think.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
The princess Fiona, right?
Fiona Oakes:
Oh, well, yeah. I'm not quite a princess but yeah, I am a Fiona.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, your story is so remarkable. I know that you are so kind of modest, and humble, and unassuming that you don't I think, maybe see what other people see in the amazing work that you do. And you're running for the advocacy of the animals, but you literally are like running for the lives of animals and the farm sanctuary that you started in the late 1990s. I have no idea. In 2021, how many animals do you have on the Tower Hill Stables Farm Sanctuary?
Fiona Oakes:
There are about 500, altogether. We've got cattle, sheep, pigs, horses, goats, obviously chickens, geese, swans, peacocks, turkeys. You know, we've got the full remit of menagerie, so to speak, it's hard work it, it's always been my passion. I don't even see it as hard work actually. I mean, I famously get up at 03:30 in the morning and I have done for decades and I go out there and every day it's a joy to be out amongst them. That's why I live, that's why I breathe, that's all I do, it's all I think about.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, so 03:30 AM. If you're getting up at 03:30, what time do you go to sleep at night?
Fiona Oakes:
I usually say I go to sleep when I've finished my work, probably on average around about 10:00 PM. I don't need an awful lot of sleep. I really don't. I get about five, probably five hours, five and a half hours a night of quality, I don't rest in the day either. My day, it really is full on. And indeed when Keegan came to make the film Running For Good, I think he was kind of skeptical is this really what happens. And it is, it's just there is so much to do, but I kind of thrive on work. I'm a very disciplined person. I think that the discipline that I get through my running helps me with my day-to-day life as well, but I see every task as an opportunity to achieve a little bit more and do more for the animals.
Fiona Oakes:
And I also feel very, very blessed that I'm able continue doing it. The cups half empty or half full. Yes, sometimes when you've got a hard session to do, or you've got a lot of work to do out there, I kind of look and think I'm privileged to be able to go out there and do it because so many aren't.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
Health is wealth, especially now with this pandemic and you know, okay, I don't fly out of bed at 03:30 every morning and think, "Yay I get to start the day." But I just feel that I'm very lucky to be able to live the life I do.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think where I want to go to like start unpacking this amazing life that you've led. Let me just start with this. The whole premise around Season 3 of the PLANTSTRONG Podcast is asking people to help us identify what was their Galileo moment? So your moment, when you were kind of looking through that telescope and you saw the truth, as far as like, wow, you know what I want to live a cruelty-free life.
Fiona Oakes:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rip Esselstyn:
I want to be vegan.
Fiona Oakes:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rip Esselstyn:
And that has kind of defined and informed your life's work and your life's path. But when did that start for you, Fiona?
Fiona Oakes:
Honestly, it started before I can even remember it starting. I have to rely on my mom's information. She said I was a very headstrong child. She could see I was different, very different from my sister. Never really interested in what you would call conventional toys or conventional play. It was always all about animals from a very, very small child. Total rejection of eating meat from probably two or three years old. Didn't even want it on my palette or my plate, didn't want that. Didn't know why just rejected. And then probably when I was four, five, six years old, started to ask kind of questions of my mom, where do all the products come from? Why does the chicken give us her eggs? And I was very lucky in that my mom chose to inform herself and then allow me if you like to follow this lifestyle.
Fiona Oakes:
It was a reaction against cruelty, it wasn't a decision. I was too young to make a decision.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
And I wasn't familiar with the word vegan. I was familiar with the principles behind veganism in terms of the fact that I just didn't want to harm animals. I've always seen any animal, anywhere. Geography is not important to me. Never has been when it comes to animals or people. I see them as they are my extended family. And much as I would not want to hurt another individual, a human individual, I would not want to hurt another animal, and that's the honest truth. I mean, at the minute, I'm quite concerned because I've got a small rescue in Afghanistan, in Kabul, which I'm very, very concerned about. And we've been running that for over two or three years. I've got another little rescue in Russia. I don't see geography when it comes to animals.
Fiona Oakes:
I just see animals that need help. And if I can, in some way assist, I will. The animals at the sanctuary here, I don't consider I own animals in the conventional way. I'm very blessed to have them as my companions, and them to be around me and fortunate enough to be able to care for them. But honestly, I see us all as a global community of sentient beings, whether we be human or animal, and that's how I've always been. I can't remember feeling any different. It's actually integral to my soul. I think I am completely normal in terms of, and I am completely normal to me, but yeah, people do think the lifestyle is unusual if you like, less so now because this is like in the early 1970s, in a small sleepy town in Middle England, I come from a very, very kind of working class background as well.
Fiona Oakes:
I mean, I don't come from some sort of Bohemian kind of alternative background, very conventional in that my mom was a music teacher and her lifelong ambition was to be a nurse. And she went nursing when I was probably about 10 years old. And my dad was in the mining industry, actually was a miner. And during the 1980s in the UK, that industry was decimated by the government, so my dad was like on strike a lot. We had no income coming into the house on my dad's side, we were completely reliant on my mom. And this was before the time of furlough or food banks. We were advised as a family that if we needed food, we would go to a soup kitchen. And that was for a year, a whole year. As I say, I mean, I don't see myself as a victim because of that. I think it's probably made me stronger.
Fiona Oakes:
And I honestly feel that I'm very blessed to live in a country where there was aid for us in terms of a soup kitchen. I didn't find it in any way degrading, there was aid out there and there was food out there for us. But yeah, I just see what I do as very normal. I kind of think everyone's got like 500 animals, and runs marathons in deserts, and the north pole, or whatever they might be. And gets up at 03:30 in the morning and truly believes in what I believe in. It's hard. It's really, really tough. I'm nothing special. And that's kind of my message to people. I am nothing special. Really, I am not. If I can do this just through self-belief, grit, and determination, anyone can achieve anything. And I'm so keen, let's not exploit our differences to divide us, let's celebrate our similarities to strengthen us as a global community. And that's what it's all about for me.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think in order to have that grit, and that determination, and that work ethic that you described, you kind of have to find that passion in your heart that drives you.
Fiona Oakes:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rip Esselstyn:
And once you find it, it probably makes it a lot easier to get up at 3:30 and work until nine o'clock.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rip Esselstyn:
And all that. But it's still, to me, there's something so remarkable about the physicality of what you do day in and day out, the mental fortitude that it takes to do what you do day in and day out. The fact that it sounds like you hardly ever get a break and if you do have a break, maybe it's when you go and do a race or something like that.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah, yeah. That's about right. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
But then what happens? Do you then like ask Martin, your partner to tow the line back at the sanctuary, or do you have a bunch of volunteers that are jumping in and helping?
Fiona Oakes:
I've got people here that obviously help and oversee when I'm away. And I don't actually go away that often, to be honest with you. I mean, that's the thing with my running that I think is the most unusual thing when people ask me about my running, I started running purely as an end game to promoting veganism, about 20 years ago.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
I got the sanctuary back in the late nineties, as you said, it was a lifelong ambition to actually nurture and care for animals, that was the obvious next progression from being vegan. I did have problems during my teenage years in terms of the fact that I was hospitalized quite a lot, because I've got an orthopedic condition. And I had 17 surgeries resulting in my kneecap being removed. And I was told I wouldn't walk again, properly, let alone be able to run.
Fiona Oakes:
That was a problem for me to get over. But the dream was to have a sanctuary, tick that one off. But I realized very quickly that although I could rescue animals and physically help the ones at the sanctuary, that was like a minuscule tiny amount to the cruelty and exploitation that was out there to the billions of animals that goes through these horrible industries, every day. I kind of thought at this point, well, I'm strong, I'm fit, I'm healthy, I'm like a firefighter, I'm physically doing all this work at the sanctuary. And I wanted to just show the world that vegans are not weak, being vegan is not prohibitive to doing anything. And that was very much the myth and the idea at the time. I've got a leaning towards physical things, so sport is the obvious one. But women's sport generally, especially back then, didn't garner the attention that men's sport does. Apart from in the UK, marathon running, because of the prodigious success that Paula Radcliffe was having.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
The idea originally, even though I'd been told, you're not going to be able to walk properly again, let alone run. Was to I need to compete in and hopefully be able to complete a marathon because it's got all the hashtags attached to it. This is the toughest sport physically and mentally, you need endurance, you need determination, you need mental fortitude. That's what I was trying to prove vegans can have, so I thought okay, I'll just enter a marathon and see if I can get round, and obviously I did. Two years later, I was actually-
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh wait let me ask-
Rip Esselstyn:
Let me stop you for a sec. How did you do in that first marathon?
Fiona Oakes:
I ran 3/12.
Rip Esselstyn:
You ran a 3/12. Did you train appropriately for it? Did you-
Fiona Oakes:
Not really? I mean, no. Well, the idea was at the time... Bearing in mind, this is before the internet, before oh just go and Google Sub 3 Hour Marathon or just write to somebody on Facebook, there was none of that. And I think that's what the younger generation sometimes don't... It's hard to explain to them.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
I kind of tell people, I mean, this isn't exactly prehistoric times. I wasn't battling Tyrannosaurus Rex's to get round, but it was kind of before they can actually remember, so if you wanted to contact someone you've got to have their address to write them a letter, you've got to have their phone number to call them, that sort of thing, on a landline. And so it was just the idea that I would go out and I would do a lot of running and that would get me physically in shape to be able to run a marathon or get round a marathon, so specific training, no. I didn't realize that to get to the next level, you've got start doing specific training. It's just that if you're familiar with running the miles, you will probably be able to complete the event, that was the whole thing.
Rip Esselstyn:
When did you run that first marathon? Do you remember what year that was?
Fiona Oakes:
It was about 2001 or 2002. I can't really remember. I don't really document them. I'm reluctant to. But then doing that, I thought, well, actually, hang on I've got round. It's not that bad.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
How do I improve? And that was a challenge, working out something that suits me, a regime, a routine that sort of could get the speed up basically to get into the pace that you could run these races. And yeah, it kind of went from there. And in a couple years I was literally lining up on the elite start next to Paula Radcliffe. And that's why I started the Vegan Runner Club back in the UK because the whole idea was I can't go round in a dress to X amount of people and say, hello, my name is Fiona and I'm vegan, have you ever thought about going plant-based yourself? Can't do that. That kind of idea behind it was if they see the vegan word, the word vegan attached to a runner on their vest, that's going into the elite start.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yep.
Fiona Oakes:
The equation is that vegan equals' excellence. That was it. And yeah, I started Vegan Runners back in 2004, my running, I tried to get a coach actually at that point to help me, but they were saying, look, you've obviously got some ability, but we're not going to help you because it's going to be investing an awful lot of time and your diet is going to be prohibitive to really improving to the next level. And you're going to find that when you do start doing the hardened sessions, you're not going to be able to cope. You're not going to be able to sustain it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, they said the wrong thing.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, the diet in essence, the veganism is the only real reason I'm out there in the first place, so that's not negotiable.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
My running has been basically trial and error. It is an awful lot of trials and an awful lot of errors to get me where I am. But yeah, so I only did two marathons a year, no other races. I don't have a coach. I don't have a physio. I've never had a massage in my life.
Rip Esselstyn:
Really?
Fiona Oakes:
No, I don't have anything.
Rip Esselstyn:
You don't ask like one of the pigs or goats to give you a little like-
Fiona Oakes:
Well the horses are pretty good, and the cows are like... They think massaging me, is just knocking me on the ground and sort of like playing, but no, I don't have anything fancy.
Rip Esselstyn:
Aww.
Fiona Oakes:
And this is another point I try to make to people. It can be done.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yep.
Fiona Oakes:
It can be done. I don't take any supplements. I don't have any special diet.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh you do, you do have a special diet.
Fiona Oakes:
Well, yeah, the whole diet is special, you know. But I don't have anything that I would call fancy, you know what I mean? And it can be done very basically. Finance is always at the forefront of my mind, because obviously my money is needed for the animals at the sanctuary, so I'm very, very careful and probably with like 500 mouths to feed mine is the one that I'm thinking about last rather than first. I used to do two races a year, purely because I would get invited to go. Mark Milde at Berlin might ring me and say, or contact me and say, you know, do you want to come to make up the elite start the ladies race in the Berlin marathon. Yes, please. We will pay your fare out here, give you a hotel, and give you a free place in the race.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah, it made financial and actual physical sense to do that because it wasn't going to cost me anything to go to a race. And I was only going to be away for a couple of days from the sanctuary and the rest of the training I have done completely alone on my own. My knee is so bad, the right knee in for certain things, not for everything, but for certain the sort of bending and sort of manipulation that I can't do speed work on a track. I can't run the bends, the multiple bends. All my speed work I have done on my treadmill. And the longer runs I do on the road or on trails. And I used to marathon training program would probably be 13 weeks and it would be 10 or 12 weeks of really hard training, and then focusing on the taper. And the hard training would be a hundred mile a week, three speed sessions, a hill session on a Friday.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
A longer mid-week run and a conventional long run on a Sunday. And I used this to stay in that year in, year out.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Now are you wearing any kind of like a watch that lets you know your pace, or your mileage, or anything like that?
Fiona Oakes:
No, I don't have anything. I wear a Ironman Timex, I've had this years. In fact, it's broken, so it's three minutes fast, so if I'm timing myself I have to factor in the fact it's three minutes fast. People have said to me, I've worn Garmins and stuff at races and stuff, but I don't use them. I don't use anything. I don't use Strava. I don't use an app or anything like that. Well, I can say this tongue in cheek, we have the most sophisticated computers known to man about our person, every single individual. It's learning how to use it and interpret what it's telling you, your brain. Percy is not quite as clever as me but I like to figure it out for myself and use my own body, and the way I'm feeling personally, because if you've got like a pulse monitor or something on, it's beeping away on your wrist, it doesn't know if you've had a hard day, it doesn't know if you've got cold.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
It doesn't know what your circumstances are, but you do, and you can factor that in. Pace judgment, that's one of my strongest points because I've done it. I do it all regularly. I know what time I want to do in sessions.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
I know what seven minute, six minute miles feels like, and I know what I'm capable of. And it's just through experience, I am miss amateur runner.
PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:27:04]
Fiona Oakes:
... Through experience. I am Miss amateur runner 2021. I know nothing about running other than one foot in front of the other gets it all over quicker and then you can get back to base and do the jobs. It's had to change a bit since I've been doing the ultras, because it sounds really kind of conceited, and I don't mean it to, but as a road runner in a marathon, the last thing you want to do is stop or slow down.
Fiona Oakes:
In an ultra race, you've got to factor that in because you can't run a 100 K without stopping at a checkpoint. You can't do 250 odd kilometers across the desert without stopping at checkpoints and adjusting if there is a problem. But yeah, I mean, it's a laugh a minute, me. With my running, the only thing that really gets me out in the door is lack of time in terms of the fact that I know that time is very, very limited, and if I'm going to sneak out for a couple of hours, it's got to be when the animals are done and then I come back.
Fiona Oakes:
Other than the time that I'm actually hunting around the house for something which resembles a pair of socks or something to go running in, I don't actually think about it too much. And when you get to races, everybody's going on about UTMB points and this, that and the other and I'm kind of sitting there in the backgrounds of not knowing what they're talking about. I don't get too involved in it, otherwise. I don't overthink things. I am very, very raw.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, that's all beautiful. And I love the fact you're just putting one foot in front of the other. You've put one foot in front of the other as a runner and you've got, is it three or four world records?
Fiona Oakes:
I've got four world records.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. Do you know what they're in?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. I'm the fastest woman to run a marathon on every continent and every continent and the North Pole, and every continent and the North Pole in days or laps. And I'm actually the fastest woman ever to run a half marathon in an animal costume.
Rip Esselstyn:
What kind of costume were you in?
Fiona Oakes:
A cow suit. I'd got a little bit of downtime. I'd come back from an ultra stage race and I'd got few weeks twiddling my thumbs, nothing to do. And I thought, "Do you know what? I kind of fancy doing a road race". Age qualified for the London Marathon. You've got to run a certain time. And I thought, "Well how do I combine a few things?" I thought I'd run in my cow outfit. Try and break a world record running as a cow and run a qualifying time for London dressed as a cow.
Fiona Oakes:
I remember it was in summer and I was searching hard for a race which would actually qualify for Guinness, because it's got the AIMS, it's got to be all accredited and you've got to have people with you. It was kind of difficult to do. So I picked the Midnight Sun Marathon in Tromso, in Norway. I'm setting off in my cow outfit, taken my cow outfit over there, and my mom said "Are you sure this is a good idea?" I'm thinking about it as I'm going. I'm thinking, "No, I'll be fine. I will be fine so long as it's not windy, cold and raining", which it's obviously not going to be at the Midnight Sun Marathon in Tromso in the middle of summer. I will be fine.
Fiona Oakes:
So when we got to Norway, the wind, the rain and the cold was absolutely unbelievable. I sat in the hotel because it started in the evening and I'm looking out the window and all I'm seeing is mountains around where we were going to run, vanishing under this appalling cloud and rain and the hail and wind.
Fiona Oakes:
I thought, "Oh Lord". It's one of these out and back, around the airport. It's so exposed. I'm there in me big gaping cow outfit trying to do it. You know one of those feelings, at about 10 K in a race, this was not a good idea. This was not a good idea because the one thing I don't like, for my bad knee, I don't like it to get cold and I don't like it to get wet. It really does hurt when it gets cold and wet. And it got cold and it got wet and the cow suit got heavy, but I still did it. It was just another one of my bizarre experiences that makes it the life of Fiona. So they're the world records. I say I'm quite proud of them.
Fiona Oakes:
I'm a proud the endurance I had to do them because it wasn't an easy ask, both logistics, financial, physical. It was really, really tough actually. I thought that the good [inaudible 00:31:54] at Guinness, when I said I was going to do this, fastest woman at North Pole and every other continent, I thought they'd just take my word for it kind of thing. I enter races, I'd go and I'd come back and give them my times. It was nothing like that.
Fiona Oakes:
I only decided to do the world records by chance in that I'd been running the big city marathon's for a few years, as I've said, two a year with Berlin, London and I'd been placing highly top 20 in Berlin. I couldn't do any more on the road. I couldn't do quicker than two thirty eight, I just couldn't do it. So I was not getting...
Rip Esselstyn:
Two thirty eight, just to stop for a sec. Two thirty eight, that's like six minute pace.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's six minute pace. That's remarkable. You're pretty pleased with a two thirty eight, yes?
Fiona Oakes:
To be honest with you, people ask a lot of the time, "What's the hardest race you've run?" And they expect it to be, "Oh, it's Marathon Des Sables, oh it's the North Pole Marathon". It's the fast road races. To get your time down from three twelve, to sub-three is a big ask. Sub-three to sub-two fifty, bigger ask. Sub-two fifty to sub... The gains are so marginal for the extra effort that goes in at that level. I couldn't do any more than that. I knew I couldn't do any more than that.
Fiona Oakes:
Then I looked to move on, mix it up or just walk away and do something else. Then I looked to going around winning marathons, breaking course records. Bearing in mind, I wasn't doing this for me. I was doing this to promote veganism. And although it was having some effect, I found the press in the media would very much ignore that one crucial thing about the fact that I was running.
Fiona Oakes:
They might write a story on the fact that I've got an animal sanctuary, that I've got a disability, that I'm a firefighter, but never the fact that I'm out there doing this because I'm vegan and I want to show the world that it can be done.
Fiona Oakes:
Then I went off and I won marathons and I broke course records or whatever, but still there was that hesitancy that reluctance to actually say, "This woman does it for this reason". It was very, very frustrating. Then one of my friends, and I always joke and say, "If your friends suggest you do this, what do your enemies suggest you do?" Are you sure they're your friends. Because it was, "Why don't you go and do the Marathon Des Sables? It's the toughest foot race on the planet, or they like to bill it like that. That proves definitively how strong the vegan can be. And you would be the first vegan woman to do it. So I did that in 2012. I had real problems with that.
Rip Esselstyn:
In 2012 you did that?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. I've done it three times. [inaudible 00:34:53] I know.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wait. I didn't know. I thought you'd done it once or twice. Three times? So did it get easier each time or more difficult?
Fiona Oakes:
It's kind of really weird actually. I went out there in my cavalier way that I go about things like, "Oh, I'm doing that there Marathon Des Sables in a couple of weeks, I'd better get some kit for it." I'd not really thought too much about it. I don't overthink things. I thought, I could run a marathon. I'm sure I can get around that. It was tough for me because I was doing it as an ethical vegan, not just the plant based faculty. Especially nearly a decade ago, there wasn't the synthetic sleeping bags, there wasn't the lightweight kit. You have to carry everything you need for a week in your back from day one. You've got to carry everything.
Rip Esselstyn:
Completely 100% self-supported?
Fiona Oakes:
Yes. Apart from the limited water, which they give you, you're completely self-supported. So for instance, when we arrived at the race, I have got this ex army sleeping bag. The only thing I could find that was synthetic, it was massive. I had to have a 30 liter backpack to support it. It was massive. Everybody else has got these tiny little things down-filled. They were just popping out and say, "Oh, this one goes down to minus seven and it only weighs two ounces". Well mine goes to about 10 degrees and it's like 10 tons.
Fiona Oakes:
But the problem, the week before the race, I was unfortunately to fracture two toes at the sanctuary. A horse stood on my foot and fractured two of my toes. Then I'm left in this dilemma, do you go to the race, do you do the sensible thing and not go, or do you do the ridiculous thing and go and try and do it? But I'm sure you and listeners will know, you've trained, you want to go out there, you want to give it go. You're never going to know if you don't actually go and stand on the start line.
Fiona Oakes:
So I went out there. I remember that they do say for the Marathon Des Sables, buy shoes a size too big because your feet will surely swell when you arrive in the desert heat. It can be well over 50 degrees. Unless you're used to that, your feel are going to swell.
Rip Esselstyn:
Fifty degrees Celsius?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. So it's very, very hot. My right foot was swollen before I went out there because of the fractures. So I crammed my foot into my shoe, couldn't buy bigger shoes because they'd all been stitched up to accommodate sand gaitors. The last thing you want in these races is sand in your shoes, because that causes blisters. In two twelve, one guy actually, when he came home from the race, had to have skin grafts on the soles of his feet. They were so mashed.
Fiona Oakes:
I remember that on the long stage, we'd come to the tent, the overnight resting spot. I said to the guy that I was with, I said, "Paul, would you have at look at my feet? Because I can't see very well with my head torch", which was appallingly, just wasn't very strong beamed. Because I'd gone for a lightweight torch because I've got such heavy sleeping bag. And he looked down at my foot and he said, "Well, I'm no doctor, so don't quote me on this Fiona, but I think that's the bone sticking out of your little toe".
Fiona Oakes:
The worst of it is you get so sucked into this whole thing that rather than thinking, "Oh no, I'm going to pack up, this is dreadful", you think, "Oh no, don't let the doctors on the race know, they're going to pull me out if they know". So I quickly bound it all up with the gaffer tape that I'd got around my walking poles and just muddled through. There was a marathon the next day. But I did really well in that because on the territory of relatively, they tend to make the marathon stage a little bit more of a running stage in MDS. I can do really well in that. Because I've got some good flat speed. So I got through 2012 first vegan woman to complete Marathon Des Sables.
Rip Esselstyn:
Let me just stop you for a sec for listeners that don't know about exactly... So it's six days, is that right? And every day you run basically a marathon, is that right?
Fiona Oakes:
It's six days. They slightly changed the format now. It was seven days of actual competitive running. Every day you run roughly-ish a marathon, but there's a double marathon stage. And the last stage in 2012, was a much shorter stage, but it was 15 kilometers of solid sand dunes. They are like monster dunes.
Rip Esselstyn:
How did your knee hold up on those sand dunes?
Fiona Oakes:
Strangely enough it was okay. I don't know if I'd just got so many other woes going on that the knee just went into, it's just a list of problems I've got here, just another one to add to it. I loved it. I just loved the whole experience.
Rip Esselstyn:
You thrive on a suffer fest? Don't you?
Fiona Oakes:
I do.
Rip Esselstyn:
Don't you?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah, I do. I know I have no talent for running. So you've got to exploit what abilities you have got. I do have an ability to push myself very hard, almost flipping it, like you're enjoying it because you're enjoying it because you know it's actually improving your ability to get to the end game, which is actually do your best for the animals. The better runner you can be, the better race result you can get, the better you can promote the reason you're actually out there in the first place.
Fiona Oakes:
In Marathon Des Sable in two twelve, I did affect a rescue of a lady who was really, really suffering. I gave her a fireman's lift because she was still coming. She pulled out. She was out of the race. But because of this compassionate over competition, and that's the idea of this race, we're all in this together. And although, obviously you're trying to do your best, we're all fighting this humongous challenge of the desert. They offered me a place in the following years race to come back, hopefully without fracture toes and see what I could do.
Fiona Oakes:
I was really up for it. I wanted to go back to MDS in 2013 and really hit it hard. But in the meantime, another of my friends had said, "Well, you've got the medal". That's basically what people want from MDS. They want that metal to say, "I've done the toughest foot race on the planet. And I'm here to tell the story". Why don't you do the Polar Marathon? Why don't you go to the North Pole? Why don't you run the marathon there?
Fiona Oakes:
In my childlike and innocent equation level that's going on in my brain, in the UK, if it's cold out doors, you come inside and say, "Oh, it's cold out there. It feels like the North Pole". And if you're tired you say, "I feel like I've run a marathon" So add the two together and that's got to be, if I can get around a marathon at the North Pole, that would really rubber stamp it. Vegan can do it, you know, fast, high, hot, hard, whatever. Cold. I can do it all.
Fiona Oakes:
I looked into doing the North Pole race, but it was prohibitive with regard to costings. I put that on a back burner and thought, "No, that's going to be for another time in my life". Then totally out of the blue, the race organizer offered me a place in the race if I would go and do his race, but it completely coincided with MDS in 2013.
Fiona Oakes:
So I went off, I did the North Pole race. I didn't know if I'd be able to run that marathon. It was very, very cold. It's like minus 40. I never do any specific training for these races. When I arrived at night, before they took us to the actual North Pole, because originally I didn't think it would be at the North Pole. I thought this is just going to be a place in Northern Norway. We're just like, "For the sake of splitting hairs, we're going to call it the North Pole because there's a lot of snow and it's very cold and it's very near the North Pole". But no, actually at the North Pole. Or as near as the Russians could set the base up.
Rip Esselstyn:
Was Santa Claus there?
Fiona Oakes:
No, unfortunately Santa's back in Rovaniemi, I'll run a marathon with him. But anyway, we arrived at the North Pole and I'm thinking, "What have I done this time? This is really, really bad". Because obviously landing on ice is a problem for a plane because it can cause the tsunami underneath and the plane can just go into the ocean. They can't take all the competitors out there at once. So I went out on the first trip and I'm laying in my tent thinking, "Oh, what have you done this time Fiona? Literally your address is now, Fiona Oakes, The North Pole.
Fiona Oakes:
There's nothing here to get you out. If there's a problem, there's no plane, there's no nothing, you're on your own. I attend to, because I've got no knee cap, my knee can be a little bit unstable, and I can dislocate it very easily. I wasn't sure about dislocating it on ice. That was a worry for me. I wasn't sure about running on ice. I hadn't got any special shoes racing. When you get there and you're hearing stories that people had been training in industrial freezes with treadmills and I'm thinking, "I haven't done anything. I've only got these little kids mittens at Buffalo that are $10 or I bought off the internet".
Fiona Oakes:
People have got heated gloves. I'm thinking, "Blimey, I'm going to be in trouble here". But fortunately there's no special formula to running in cold conditions. You go out, you warm up and you maintain your pace. And if you maintain your pace, you don't get hypothermia. And actually your body keeps you warm. It was brutal. It was three mile loops of this lap. It was brutal. When you came into the warm tent to get a drink of anything, you can't carry anything about your person, everything just freezes or disintegrates in those kinds of temperatures, you have to cut your clothes off your head. You've got to be very, very careful. Very, very careful of getting frostbite. But other than that, it wasn't too bad.
Rip Esselstyn:
What would you, given your experience at the Marathon Des Sable and then also the North Pole. Do you prefer the hot or the cold?
Fiona Oakes:
I love the desert. I love running in the heat. I love it. I just love the experience of being out there and be privileged to be out there. Just you against you, literally no excuses, nobody's to blame, you against you with your pack on your back. This is your whole world on your shoulders literally for a week. I just realized now I love the experience of handing over all the gadgetry and it's literally stripping it back to that raw survival, if you can call it instinct, of getting from A to B, surviving and being well enough to do it again the next day.
Fiona Oakes:
Nine years ago, the world isn't the world it is now. But even then looking back in retrospect, I realize that was a big trigger for me. Just being able to be out there and challenging myself very honestly. It's brought me such wisdom.
Fiona Oakes:
I came home that first time and I'm in the kitchen and I'm looking at my mom's turning the tap on the faucet on. I'm looking at it spellbound. What you're looking at Fiona? It's miracle. There is water coming out of that tap and I can drink it. I don't care if it's Perrier, sparkling, whatever, it's drinkable. It's beautiful.
Fiona Oakes:
Sometimes I feel very, I don't want to make myself out to be some martyr or something I'm not, because I am nothing special. Some people live in these conditions every day. They go back to a tent, that's all they've got. This was a week in the desert and it was very harsh conditions. But at any point you can put your hand up and say, "Actually, I don't want to do this anymore. I want to go home". And you can do.
Fiona Oakes:
Other people around the world can't do that. If you take that wisdom back into your normal day to day life, and always remember that and always have that at the forefront of your mind, it can be much more than a running race. It can be life changing and life enhancing experience. And that what it was for me.
Fiona Oakes:
When I went off to do the North Pole Marathon, after I'd worn it and I'd placed on the podium with a man and broke the world record for the fastest time ever, a woman running that race in North Pole. I'm not into that sort of running. I actually thought you would probably fall off the end of the earth if you tried to run past 26.2 north. I was literally just a big sticky tarmac doing it for a reason. I just wanted to promote veganism. I wanted to be going into the elite enclosure or on the elite bus with Haile Gebrselassie who was very, very good to me during my road running career. Taught me a lot. Lucky enough to spend time with him in Amsterdam when he was going for the world record. Very, very humble man himself.
Fiona Oakes:
A lot of the guys said, "Why don't you just do the world record? Why don't you just go to every continent, run a marathon. You're in the Antarctic race at the end of the year. You're really good, you could do this". I came home with rose tinted spectacles on and thought, "Oh, I could go to every continent. I can do this". Then you get back and you start working out the logistics, the finance and time, and I left it on a back burner. It wasn't going to happen for me.
Fiona Oakes:
But it was niggling away all the time that although I got publicity when I came back from the North Pole, I was invited by the BBC to go up to open closed BBC breakfast show, this British woman silliness. They literally asked me not to mention the fact I was vegan on their show. That's the only reason I'm there. I'm not an adrenaline junkie. I'm not an adventure seeker. I'm none of those things. I was there with a very, very definite agenda just to prove, to show people, not to force people, but just to make this a fact that if you do have any ideas that vegans are weak or can't sustain performance or can't operate in endurance, I can, and you can too if you choose to take this lifestyle.
Fiona Oakes:
I'd put it on a back burner, it was actually getting really, really difficult to find marathons around the world that I could go and fit in before I went to Antarctica. I came to my parents and I asked them for help. They've got nothing left. They've given everything to the sanctuary, everything. But they agreed to remortgage the house for me to do it.
Fiona Oakes:
I declared to the Guinness Book of World Records, that I was going to do it to get it accredited and make my mission statement. And they said, "That's great," but they did have certain criteria. You've got to take somebody with you. You got to have a runner on either side of you to actually make sure that it is you that is running these races because we're not just going to take your word for it because you could ask somebody in Australia to enter as you and we won't know that. So the only answer was I'm going to have to go because it was going alone, and win or place in every race and therefore the race will then validate by virtue of the fact I'm on the podium, that you've actually done it. So that was the extra challenge for me to go and do that. And I was literally...
Rip Esselstyn:
And you were able to do that.
Fiona Oakes:
Funny experience going to Australia because I'm in the UK and I popped over to Australia. I was gone less than 96 hours. Doing the marathon and coming home to do the jobs. I remember arriving in Australia and there are guys in the arrival's hall sending you towards your baggage or where you need to go. I'm wandering around looking lost. And he said, "You looking for the baggage from the flight you've come in on from Dubai?"
Fiona Oakes:
I said, "No, I haven't got any handling. I've only got hand luggage".
Fiona Oakes:
And he said, "Oh, you've only got hand luggage?"
Fiona Oakes:
I said, "Yes".
Fiona Oakes:
He said, "Do you live here, you resident?.."
Fiona Oakes:
The conversations going on. And he said, "You going on somewhere?"
Fiona Oakes:
"No."
Fiona Oakes:
He said, "What you doing here?" Basically.
Fiona Oakes:
I said, "I'm running a marathon tomorrow morning, but don't worry. I'm going home tomorrow night".
Fiona Oakes:
And he just looked at me and said, "You're telling me that you've come to Australia from the UK on a day trip?"
Fiona Oakes:
And I said, "Well, actually, when you look at it like that, I have, yes".
Fiona Oakes:
And he went, "You'd better go". I was fine. I don't think I was in Australia long enough to get jet lag.
Rip Esselstyn:
All right, gang. Want to share an Instagram message that I just got. This is from a gentleman, his name is George Lagos. Before I do, I want to just share a little side note here. He just happened to be the first customer to spot our new PLANTSTRONG broth's, chili's and stews inside his local whole food market store that's in Wheaton, Illinois.
Rip Esselstyn:
And he did it, he found it after visiting both downtown Chicago stores to try and find the new products. He was persevering, he was on the hunt for the new PLANTSTRONG products, and really appreciate that George. He went on to share that he's been PLANTSTRONG since 2019 when he saw my book, my first book, The Engine 2 Diet, that was being sold at his local whole foods store. At the time he was in fantastic shape, he was working out six days a week. He weighed a trim, lean and mean 165 pounds. But guess what? His cholesterol was a staggering three thirty.
Rip Esselstyn:
One of the things that I tell people is it doesn't matter how hot your engine burns, you don't burn away cholesterol, it doesn't work that way, right? If you want to bring down the cholesterol, you've got to bring down the saturated fat, the dietary cholesterol, the animal protein, and you want to be hammering it with all the fantastic substances, the phytonutrients, the antioxidants that you get in whole plant-based foods.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, since reading The Engine 2 Diet, he's gone all in and he said that he's not had a drop of oil since he started. His cholesterol is now right as rain and he's never felt better. That to me is not surprising. I want to appreciate and thank George for sharing his story and huge congrats on his success. Now, everybody that's listening, I want you to hear this. This...
PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:54:04]
Rip Esselstyn:
Everybody that's listening, I want you to hear this. This is a participatory lifestyle. This is a participatory sport, meaning anyone that's out there listening, you can achieve these results. Not by listening to podcasts, and not by reading books, although it's helpful, but by engaging with the lifestyle. I mean you literally have to stick a fork in it and dig in. We want you up to your knees, waist, chest in this lifestyle. And I promise you, you won't regret it. So kale yeah to George and keep it PlantStrong. Thanks.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, let me ask you, so you've done the Marathon Des Sables, you said three times. When was the last time you did it?
Fiona Oakes:
2017. When Keegan made the film. In 2014, when I'd done the world records, I'd exceeded what I'd said it was going to do. I went for one world record and I broke three, because I got to run quickly as well. And the media, again, ignored the fact that I was vegan. They didn't want to do a story on it. They didn't want to push it, because I came back from Antarctica, again, I won the race there and I did really, really well. But it was coming up to Christmas and there was a lot of advertising and papers for the Turkey and all the clotted cream filled food or whatever they sell. And they actually said, we rely on our advertisers for funding. We are doing a lot of adverts for the supermarkets, Aldi and Lidl, which were trying to break into the mainstream market that's usually for Tesco and Sainsbury's. And they said, we're not going to do a story on something which basically is flying in the face of what we're advertising. And it really broke me actually, I couldn't get the interest because of being vegan, if you like.
Fiona Oakes:
So in 2014, I went back to Marathon Des Sables and just wanted to run it for myself and enjoy it. And I was doing that, in the first three stages of the race I was right up there with the top women, placing in the stages. But one of my tent mates, a guy called Mike Julien, had leukemia. And he was on chemotherapy and he was really struggling. I know he came back from the second stage in tears. Every stage was taking me about four hours, he was right on cutoff at 11 or 12 hours. And he said, I can't do it. I cannot go out there again, knowing that I've got the long stage to do on day four. I can't do it. I can't be out there on chemo and everything. So I said, look Mike, if you want to do this race that badly, because in 2012 I'd been in a similar position. I'd got the broken toes, I desperately wanted to do it for a reason. Mike wanted to do this race to prove that having cancer didn't define him and it wasn't going to define other people, you can do anything. I said, if you can get through tomorrow, which was just about a marathon stage of 40km, and you come back and you want to do the long stage, I'll chuck my race and I'll stay with you, and I'll get you around it.
Fiona Oakes:
And I must confess, I went flying around that day and I really did enjoy it. The idea, when you get back to camp in MDS and you're the first runners back, and it's quiet, and you've got time to... It's a beautiful experience. And I was over and above fit enough to be able to be enjoying it. I'd gone to bed, I'd made my meal, I'd gone to bed. And I heard some clapping at the finish line. And it was Mike coming over the finish line. And traditionally people who have finished always tip out to greet and welcome the slower runners over the line. And Mike came over the line and threw himself into my arms and said, does your offer still some for tomorrow? Because I want to do it. And I just said, let's hit it, and we stayed together and I got him through it.
Fiona Oakes:
And people say, do you regret it? Because you were really, really highly placed. I went on to do very, very well in the marathon stage the following day, but I'd blown it. I'd been out there hours with him. Literally, he really struggled, even remembering to take his chemotherapy. No, I don't regret it. Because my reason for running is not just about winning. It's being about the best I can. And being the best you can is being the best person you can in that moment. It's not necessarily about being the quickest. It's about doing your best and what is best. And that was definitely the best thing I could have done for Mike.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is Mike still alive?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. Mike's still around, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh he made it through, that's fantastic.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah, he made it through and he really enjoyed it. And he actually, after getting through, he was just frightened about being out in the desert alone. And it is kind of scary. They do say MDS is probably the safest, most dangerous thing you can do. You're always monitored, you know what I mean? There's always somebody going to pick you up. In two 12, we had to let the flare off because somebody had a heart attack next to us. And he went straight to Casablanca hospital, he was put in an induced coma and he was out for three days and then he was okay. So there is security net around you, but they allow you and encourage you to push yourself to your absolute maximum. And yeah, Mike's still around.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'd love to just take a second and talk about your nutrition. So being plant-based, being vegan, right. I'd love to know, what do you eat on a daily basis when you're at home on the farm sanctuary. For breakfast, are you like oatmeal, porridge or sweet potatoes? What does that look like? And then I want to know, in the Marathon Des Sables, what are you eating there while you're racing to feed yourself?
Fiona Oakes:
Do you want me to tell the truth?
Rip Esselstyn:
No I don't. Of course, of course.
Fiona Oakes:
Right. Okay. The truth is I only eat one meal a day in the evening. I never snack at the sanctuary. I never eat breakfast. I never eat lunch. I eat one meal a day in the evening. And that is the truth.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is it a big meal?
Fiona Oakes:
No, I don't eat copious, I don't eat what people imagine I eat, I really don't. And also I eat very basic foods like chickpeas, beans, rice, carbohydrates. I eat, yeah, oatmeal, yeah. It's got to be cheap because I've got this sanctuary. I'm not asking people to feel sorry for me, I've got a lot of animals to consider and I consider them before myself. I remember when I was at a big international race in Russia, I was there with the Kenyan athletes. And it was just before the Sochi Olympics, and we were being really fettered. And there was press conference. And after it, they'd laid on a lunch for us. And I said to one of the Kenyan guys, he said, are you coming to lunch? I said, no, I don't eat lunch. And he said, oh why's that? And I kind of toyed with the idea of telling him. And then I said, well, I only eat one meal a day. And he just looked at me and said, oh yeah, the warrior diet. I went. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, the warrior. Yeah. That's what it is. Yeah, the warrior diet. Intermittent fasting, yeah. I'm a champion of it.
Fiona Oakes:
It just fits in with my daily routine. You know what, in MDS, I can honestly say, you never think about food. You are never hungry. Well, I'm not anyway. That's the main fear when people go. They've got a 30 kilo pack full of food. I'm going to need loads of food. When you actually get out there, you never actually think about it. I don't eat breakfast. I really don't want breakfast. I get up, I do everything wrong. This is the point, I do everything wrong. I drink coffee and tea. I don't have this mega... People have asked me keto or paleo. I don't even know what they mean. I just eat what I eat.
Rip Esselstyn:
You don't want to know what those mean.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. I just eat what I eat and I do what suits me. I do hydrate well, that's very important. Very hydrated all the time.
Rip Esselstyn:
But how long have you been eating in that manner, where you're eating one meal a day?
Fiona Oakes:
25 years.
Rip Esselstyn:
25 years?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah, probably. It started, I used to work in London. Probably longer than that actually, I used to work in London. I used to train and race bikes. And it was bums on seat kind of job. It was, you got to be at your desk by half past seven in the morning. And it was one of those jobs that it was merchant banking, you might not leave til four o'clock the next afternoon. It was really highly charged. Again, before you could send documents online, you've got couriers cycling around London with bags on, and that kind of thing. You were waiting for documents, sitting at your desk, waiting for information to come in to type it out. So I used to train in the morning. I used to get up, train, go to work, be there at half past seven, full on charge day, eat my meal when I came home. And I found it really worked for me.
Fiona Oakes:
I'm not a food person. Having said I'm not a food person, I don't want to sound like some sort of Miss goody two shoes, because I'm certainly not that. But I have reflected on people do find it kind of strange and very disciplined. Nothing breaks my routine ever. I never don't hit the goals I want to achieve. Whether it be with the sanctuary, whether it be whatever I'm doing. I'm hardcore when it comes to...
Rip Esselstyn:
I like that.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah, I really am hardcore. In a Percy Bear way, I am very hardcore. But I'm very lucky. My mom and dad live with me. That's a blessing, they still live with me, yeah. My mom still does all the cooking, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Are they just so proud of what you've done with your life?
Fiona Oakes:
My dad is just a bit, oh, it's a bit of a whirlwind. He just doesn't, what she going to do next? My mom always says that she is, she's not proud, she's humbled. And she sometimes feels bad for actually giving birth to me. That sounds strange. Because she thinks that the life I've chosen for me has been too hard. And she does carry guilt, honestly, for that. But she's fearful of me because I push myself to the maximum every day. That's the only way I know how to get through a day is to push myself. It's always been the same. But with regard to the food, I eat seasonal, I eat local. We eat economically. We soak beans, we have to. Mom's always done the cooking. I don't buy any of the fancy vegan products that are available now because I've never had them. I've never had a vegan ice cream because I don't crave ice cream. I don't know what ice cream is. I don't want to know particularly. Or yogurt. I'm not saying that that isn't great for people who do. And all these things are great initiators to people transitioning. But for me, I don't need it, so I don't buy it. Why would I, I don't...
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, so do you have more of a savory tooth than a sweet tooth?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. I do. Especially in the desert when you, you go out there and you think, oh, I'm going to need all this. Your taste buds just completely change. So, I've sat in the desert and I know you're guilting yourself. I know you should eat something for breakfast. So I take these little 50p, really cheap flapjack bars, 480 calories. You walk around the supermarket before the MDS, and you're going, mum, what about those flapjacks, are they vegan? Yes. How many calories? 370. Oh put it back, there's not enough. And people in the supermarkets, oh, I don't want that, it's too many calories. You're literally walking around saying, how many calories has that got in it? Oh yeah. Put some of that in, I need more calories. But I've sit and looked at one of these little Ma Baker flapjack bars for about an hour, trying to stomach eating it, working with this for an hour, and I can't get it down. I just don't crave it. You do lose weight. I lose about 10 kilos in the desert.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. So that's about 21, 22 pounds?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
What about, do you ever experience bonking? Have you ever experienced bonking?
Fiona Oakes:
No, I'm very well-trained. For instance, in a marathon, in any marathon I've ever run, I only drink water. I never take on anything but water. My mentality is, if you don't train with it, don't race with it. And I realize now, I have literally gone from the gut with this, I've never had any advice with my running, as you can probably tell. Any coach would have gone, no, you're going to die. But I'm not going to lie, some of the training sessions I've done running, I've gone out crying. Because I think... Not in pain, just in the fact that can I get through this? Am I going to be able to mentally? It's pouring down with rain, it's freezing cold, I've got 28 miles to run on the road, I've got nobody with me, it's going to have to be mind over matter. I've really got to force myself for this. I train with a semi kind of... Not dehydrated, but I don't indulge myself when I'm training. I make sure that I'm well prepared for absolute race conditions, where I can function a little bit dehydrated. You're going to be dehydrated in a marathon if you're extending yourself, and you're going to certainly get some level of dehydration in the desert. So when I run, when I train, I don't carry water.
Rip Esselstyn:
What gym are you a member of where you do your weight training and all your strength training?
Fiona Oakes:
The gym of Tower Hill Stables. It's actually a treadmill. Yeah. I don't go to a gym.
Rip Esselstyn:
You need to start getting memberships there for people that can also strength train.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. Well to be quite Frank with you, I'm built like a brick you know what. I am very big on the upper, very defined, very lean on the upper body. And people say, do you do weight training? And I'm tempted to say yes, but I don't, I don't do any. But bearing in mind, I literally, I was working out, I probably carry about a ton of food a day to the animals, every day. I've got to manhandle these bags all the time. Very physical looking after cattle, looking after horses. I also firefight, so I'm unrolling and rolling hoses. So I live a very physical lifestyle.
Rip Esselstyn:
Can we talk about that for a sec?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you're a firefighter? I used to be firefighter. Where and how long have you been a firefighter?
Fiona Oakes:
Quite a long time. I joined the fire brigade because I was out running... It's retained, we work a retained service here, as well as the whole time, there is a retained for local communities. So you're on call when needed, rather than sitting in a station waiting. I think in the US, I was in Antarctica with a lady who said certain parts of the US work the same system in rural communities.
Rip Esselstyn:
So is this paid or voluntary?
Fiona Oakes:
It's paid, but it's not paid on a... You're paid on the amount you need to do with a retainer if you get my drift. So I'm running along and a man stops next to me, winds his window down, and said, oi you, you look fit, have you ever thought about becoming a firefighter? And I looked at him and thought, not really, it's not what I think about... I must do the shopping, see to the animals, and become a firefighter. It wasn't like that on my list. But he said, look, you look fit, we're really struggling to get local recruits who are fit enough to join the brigade, come down and see what you think to it. Went down to the local station and of course fell in love with it. I was the only woman in the whole division. Back in the day, 20 years ago, it was not the thing that women were doing.
Fiona Oakes:
Again, I went for my induction course and there was a little bit of a situation where we were on the drill ground, we were rolling hoses, and the tea lady brought out a tray of tea with milk in it. I obviously don't drink milk and I took a rain check, but the sub officer persisted with it and I just asked for a glass of water. And he said, look, why don't you just drink the tea? She's made it. And I said, well I don't, I'm a vegan. And he literally pushed his face right into mine and said, the last one of those we had down there lasted three hours here, just remember that, but he was a man. And I thought, all right, well check this vegan woman out, because she isn't going home. And then I passed and I got in and... I am more physically bent, in terms of, I enjoy that kind of rough tough stuff where a lot of women don't, perhaps, I don't know. But this is just me. I don't define as anything. I define as Fiona, me, this is what I do. So I got the physical lifestyle going on. So I don't really weight train. I do a bit core strength, press-ups and stuff like that, but nothing more. And I train on my treadmill, because I can't run on a track.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So what are you doing these days? Do you have any motivation to do any more racing? How much longer do you want to be a firefighter?
Fiona Oakes:
Well, I've took a rain check from that at the minute because I'm training, I'm running for England next month in the 10km and the half marathon. And then I've elite qualified for the London marathon, so I'm off on the elite start in the London Marathon. I was entered in Marathon Des Sables as well, but that coincides with London. And I think with travel arrangements as they are, it's going to be a challenge with the quarantine and all that, getting back from Morocco. So I'm going to go try and break world records for age group in the 10km.
Rip Esselstyn:
What's your age group?
Fiona Oakes:
50 to 54. So I've got to run under 36 minutes. So I'm on pace for that now.
Rip Esselstyn:
36 minutes for a 10km?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. So I'm hoping to run about 35 something. Which is well, I think, within my compass. And then the half marathon, and then London. So I don't know what I'm going to do in London, because I'm on the elite start. I'm obviously not going to run 2:38. So I had thought about just trying to break three hours in my cow outfit. So that would bring publicity to the cause which I run in the cow outfit to bring attention to the cruelty of the dairy industry.
Rip Esselstyn:
Does the cow outfit, doesn't that make you overheat?
Fiona Oakes:
Well, it's not that bad. It's not that heavy. London's in October, so hopefully it won't be mega hot. Having said that, the first foray trip out in the cow outfit, I was just experimenting with it. And I decided to do 100km in it. Now this is called Race to the Stones. And this is a race that most people split into two days. They run 50km, they camp, they run another 50km. So I decided to do it in the cow outfit, hit it hard, just to raise awareness. And I remember going to the start line, it was the hottest day of the year and I've got my cow outfit on. And one of the race organizers said to me, you're not running in that are you? I said, yes. He said, well please tell me you're stopping overnight? I said, oh no, I'm hitting it hard, I'm going the whole day, I've not brought all the overnight stuff I'm getting it done, getting the job done, and getting it done quick.
Fiona Oakes:
The only problem is I did make a fundamental error, in that I felt too embarrassed to go out the front of the race in the cow outfit. You can't really go amongst the elites saying, oh don't tread on my tail. [inaudible 01:15:18] cow outfit, it looks a little bit insulting. And it started, it was a very thin start, so I decided to start at the back. Because I put stickers on my cow outfit, love cows and peace and all that kind of thing. And unfortunately I had to spend the first 40km winding my way through other runners.
Fiona Oakes:
I did have an accident in terms of the fact that at 15km a bloke fell on me because I don't think he liked the idea of running behind a cow. And we were going through a very thin wood, and he tried to get past me and pushed me over. And I semi dislocated my knee. So I'd got another 85km to go on this really bad knee. And I asked the doctors at the next checkpoint, would you please put some of that kinetic tape on this bad knee, because it's really bad. And they took one look at it and the doctor said to me, you haven't got a kneecap have you? I said, no. He said, I'm not taping it. He said it'll only do you more harm than good. If you want to carry on, you're just going to have to carry on like you are. And I thought, okay, I'll carry on for as long as I can. I was more worried actually when I got knocked over about Percy, because I lost him. So I had to spend time looking for him. He'd fallen out my little bag. Anyway, I got to the finish line and I placed in the race, which I was really pleased at. So the cow suit isn't that prohibitive. It's worse in the wet because it gets really heavy. So yeah, that's my plan.
Rip Esselstyn:
Let me ask you about your shoes. Do you have any special shoes that you wear that have been made specifically for you?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah, for the ultra races, Will's Vegan Shoes made a pair of the world's first carbon neutral shoe. Really, really hard-wearing trail shoe. They're from Will's Vegan Shoes. And I actually wore them in the Atacama Crossing. And a lot of people's shoes got really beat up in there, but mine were fine. In fact I was actually considering wearing them again for MDS, but I thought I'd better not because you're never quite sure of the integrity after a week's race. And I won in them. So yeah, they're really really good.
Rip Esselstyn:
And is that still available online?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah, they're still available online from Will's Vegan Shoes.
Rip Esselstyn:
And 30% of the purchase goes to the animal sanctuary, is that right?
Fiona Oakes:
That's it, yeah. So it's a real win-win situation. But yeah, my running has always been a bit tongue in cheek. I know I'm not a great runner. In fact, when Keegan... Keegan made the film about me, and he kept sending cuts of the film to me to show how he was getting on. And I couldn't look at them. Who wants to look at their selves on a big screen? Who wants to see... I don't want to see myself, if it's bad enough looking in the mirror occasionally, catching a glimpse when you walk past a mirror. But honestly speaking, who wants to see their self on screen?
Fiona Oakes:
And I remember Keegan calling me out to Los Angeles for the film premiere because Rich Roll had narrated it and all this kind of thing. And Rich came over to me and said, oh great film, you must be really proud of it. I said, I don't know, I haven't seen it yet. And he said, you haven't seen it? I said no, no, no. I was going to do the old, when the credits roll in at the start, drop something in the cinema and then about an hour later go, I found it, oh, I missed the film. But he wouldn't let me, so he dragged me down to sit next to him at the front of the cinema. And I had to compose myself and think, Fiona, how bad can this be? You've got all the gear on, you've got all the setting, Keegan's a really great cinematographer, it just can't be that bad. And then I saw myself and I thought, it's that bad. It's that bad. And I realized that I limp when I run, and I look atrocious.
Fiona Oakes:
And when I was in Amsterdam, running a marathon there, I was really fortunate to be able to spend a lot of time with Haile Gebrselassie, he invited me to go out running with him, it was fantastic. And I'm running at the back of their training group. They're having conversations, trying to talk to me. My eyeballs are literally on my cheeks hanging out, trying to keep up at their training pace. And I realize, my feet are on the ground enough to have run with talented runners, and I know I haven't got any talent. So I realize I've got to exploit the things that I have got in terms of, like I say, I do train very, very hard. I couldn't imagine ever hurting or being cruel to another living creature apart from myself. And I can really pace myself.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, what I think, you are such a beautiful soul. And I love that there really is no hidden agenda here. It is, you are doing this 100% for the animals. And it seems like there's no stopping you. And so many people I think are so... There's part of me that sees what you're doing and it's like, oh my gosh, there is somebody out there that is giving up everything for the animals. A couple of weeks ago, I had Gene Baur on the podcast, Gene from Farm Sanctuary over here in the states. And he said something really beautiful which is, collectively by not adapting this lifestyle right, this cruelty-free lifestyle and burying our heads in the sand, it's almost like we are losing the best part of us as humans, which is our empathy and our compassion. And so you have that in spades. I just can't imagine, do the animals show you love for everything you're doing for them? Do you feel like they know they're in a special place?
Fiona Oakes:
I think they know they're safe.
PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [01:21:04]
Rip Esselstyn:
They know that they're in a special place. And-
Fiona Oakes:
I think they know they're safe. And there was another little film made about me by two friends. And it was like spontaneous questions. And Drums said to me, "If the animals could speak, what would you want them to say to you?" And I said, "Well, I know what I wouldn't want them to say to me. I wouldn't want them to say thank you for giving them what is rightfully theirs. For me, being blessed with the opportunity to be able to help them is enough."
Fiona Oakes:
And you know what, although yeah, okay. Their lifestyle is extreme. It is exhausting sometimes. But I honestly feel honored to be able to do it. And they are giving me back so much more than I'm giving them.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. The animals show me love by their behavior towards each other. I like the animals here to be kept in as natural environment as possible. In other words, in terms of releasing them back to each other, I don't expect to morphasize or for them to behave like mini humans. I want them to be able to be free to be themselves.
Fiona Oakes:
And so, like a giant herd of cattle with young and old mixing together. I've got Highland cattle here, the ones with the huge big horns. And there is a little story that a few months ago I was asked to take in by a farmer, another Highland steer, a boy cow basically, that literally was living in a herd, but it was a herd of all the cattle his own age. And he was very intimidated by it. It kept escaping. And the guy was thinking of having him put to sleep. He said, "He needs to be in a natural herd environment. He said, "You're the only one I can source in the country. Would you consider it?" I said, "For sure."
Fiona Oakes:
So Bart came, Bartholomew he's called. And I've got my Highland cattle ranged from 20 years old to a few months old. And I just put Bart in there. And they just looked up as if to say, "Come on, mate. You're safe here." And he fitted him without any problem at all. You wouldn't even tell that he's new to the gang as I call it. And they are so accepting of each other. And that's because they feel comfortable in their environment. And that's enough thanks. That's all the thanks I want. The only thanks I want is to go out there and see them happy well and safe. And that's everything to me.
Fiona Oakes:
And you can see that, although I can help a tiny few animals, that's where the running came from, because I don't want there to be a need for sanctuaries. I don't want there to be a need to rescue pigs off abattoirs. I don't want to get a call in the middle of the night from a panicked lady that a pig has escaped from the slaughter house. It's in her garden. And she's got the police, there trading standards and the slaughter man banging on the door. And she can't bear to let this pig go back. Can I get over there? Can I help? Can I offer it refuge? I don't want that to be happening. I don't want there to be slaughterhouses. I don't want there to be exploitation. And when you're vegan, not so much now, but people used to say, "Oh, do you want a piece of cake? Oh, you can't have it, can you Fiona? You're vegan?" But the point is, yes, I can have it. But I choose not to.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right.
Fiona Oakes:
That's the difference I choose not to. I choose this lifestyle. And now, at my age, well into my fifties, I'm thinking to myself, "Look at the recovery." I've got to take no medications. I'm still competing on the start, no age group references. I have qualified for the elite start in the London Marathon. How much more can you do to convince people or introduce them to this life? It is sustainable.
Fiona Oakes:
And I will say that when I was hospitalized, having the operations in my teenage years, veganism was aligned to an eating disorder. And my mom was accused of child abuse for allowing me to be vegan. And she said, "The cruelty would be, if I lied to my daughter now, or refuse to accept this is the person she is in later years. That would be the cruelty. It involves no cruelty in allowing her to be vegan, allowing her to follow her heart, allowing her to do what's right." And my parents weren't vegan or vegetarian, I have to say.
Fiona Oakes:
But it was like, "Yeah, but what is she going to be like in 10 years time? She'll have a brittle bone. Bits are going to be falling off her. And she's not going to make whole bones." And here I am not just making old bones, but really achieving them, still achieving, still running a hundred miles a week, still training for road marathons, still doing three sessions speed a week, still recovering.
Rip Esselstyn:
You're still doing a hundred miles a week? That's incredible.
Fiona Oakes:
And the main thing is, because I have to say, there was a bit of controversy. Do you go to marathon in Sables and try and run that really well? And I was tipped to get up there and place in MDS because I'm much more ok with what the actual thing requires. The only thing I can't do with running, I can't run downhill. So I have to make all my time up running uphill and then on the flat.
Fiona Oakes:
Descending is difficult with my knee. It's really hard. But I kind of, well, how do I train for MDS and just in case a road marathon? So I went back to my road running program because if you're running for an elite road race, you're running about a hundred miles a week. You're putting the miles in. But I have to put the speed session in to be able to get the cadence and to be able to get the sub three hour.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
So yeah, I've just done the speed session. It was particularly brutal.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh my gosh.
Rip Esselstyn:
Are you done running for today or you have-
Fiona Oakes:
No, I've gone into the recovery run to do tonight.
Rip Esselstyn:
What are you going to do?
Rip Esselstyn:
Are you going to wear a headlamp?
Fiona Oakes:
It probably won't be quite dark enough for a headlamp. But yeah, I will take a head torch and some reflective clothes and just go out and do the recovery runs. I actually enjoy it. The running is time for, during the pandemic and the lockdown in the UK, things can become quite confrontational and quite kind of supercharged, everybody anxious, fearful, not knowing what's going on.
Fiona Oakes:
I've elected to spend my time rather than with confrontation or contemplation thinking about things. My running time is that time, not when my eyeballs are hanging out on the treadmill and I'm really pushing hard, but more in the evening when I'm out and there's nature. And I can hear the birds or the wildlife. That's when I like to think and plan for the following day and realize how absolutely blessed I am.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Do you ever watch Netflix?
Fiona Oakes:
No. I don't really watch too much TV. I mean-
Rip Esselstyn:
Do you like to read?
Fiona Oakes:
I do. I like to work. I like to work.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
I was trying to explain to Keegan and say, "I don't really enjoy the conventional way of enjoying myself." What do I do for downtime? I'll come and write to try and think about some way of raising funds for my sanctuary in Russia. At the moment, obviously we're trying to help my friends in Kabul.
Fiona Oakes:
And that's another point I make with the diet. I don't fixate too much on my diet, but I do realize I'm very, very lucky that I don't live with food insecurity. I know there will be a meal for me. I know that there aren't bombs flying overhead. And I'm not fleeing for my life.
Fiona Oakes:
I sit down and I consume food that's prepared with love with the love of my family around me. There are very important things, I do believe, that people overlook.
Fiona Oakes:
And I realize also that people are always on this unattainable treadmill. If I buy that, if I have that, if I do that, I'll be happy. But I realized my biggest lesson is to tell people, "Life won't ever be perfect. That's not wrong. That's just part of life. There's got to be bad for there to be good. There have got to be ups for there to be downs. That's just the natural cycle of life."
Fiona Oakes:
There will be perfect moments within life. And they come from the most unconventional places and it's learning how to identify them. So for instance, a perfect moment for me might be walking up the fields and suddenly there's a shadow and sun come on your face and it feels warm and you look up and you see the cattle grazing happily. That's just a perfect snapshot of life. That's a perfect moment.
Fiona Oakes:
But I think sometimes people fixate. They think it's bad to feel down. But if you don't feel down, you'll never feel up. You'll never feel. If you don't feel sad, you won't feel happy. There's a natural emotions that we're kind of overlooking.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. That is all so beautifully said. Let me ask you this. So at the end of a really satisfying day, do you like to pour yourself a bath or take a shower?
Fiona Oakes:
Oh, I won't have a bath because I'd get bored in the bath. I'm just like in, out. It's so boring. What am I going to do in there? Sometimes I come in and my mom says, "You better go and have a shower." "I've had one" And she's like, "What? Like two seconds." "Yeah."
Fiona Oakes:
I don't get a buzz from the things that other people get a buzz from. For instance, I've never been to the hairdressers. I've never been to the hairdressers. We had a very, very major television channel here. Oh, it were awful. They came. And it was like, "Can we look through your wardrobe to see what you'll be wearing?" And I'm thinking, "Oh my Lord. My wardrobe is on the floor of my bedroom, in the corner." And then she's saying, she's looking at me. And I could see she's thinking, "This is hopeless." And she's going, "Do you have any particular foundation you wear?" "Oh, I haven't got a piece of makeup anywhere." I don't know what to do.
Fiona Oakes:
I really am the person I say I am. And I probably assume a childlike innocence. I just am this person. And I truly believe in what I do. And I truly live my life this way. And Keegan, when he came and he was talking about Percy for people, who've watched the film, they'll know who Percy bear is. And it's amazing, amazing that you use this little bear for this very integral... It didn't make it out to be something more than it is. And I'm going, "I just like him. I like teddy bears. And I like his face and he's my alter ego and I hide behind him." But, yeah-
Rip Esselstyn:
Always smiling.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. Always smiling. And I am just super charged. I don't crave the things other people crave. I don't have fancy clothes. All my running stuff, in the UK we have things called charity shops. I don't know if you have in the US. But most of my running stuff is bought sourced from charity shops, apart from my shoes and my socks, which I'm careful of because of my knee. But there's nothing, nothing at all that I indulge myself in. I don't enjoy having fun if you get my drift. But I do have fun. I've got very great inner contentment. I know where I am. I know what I want to do. I know what gives me the greatest satisfaction is coming in at night and just literally falling into bed and thinking, "I could not have done anymore. I've given it everything."
Rip Esselstyn:
You usually fall asleep within two minutes?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. In fact, sometimes, I mean, it's been that hard when I was really hitting it hard for the road marathons. I used to eat my evening meal in bed. I'd literally have to just grab the meal and go to bed, I'd be that tired. And I'd fall to sleep with it in my mouth, coming out of my mouth. I was that tired, literally. It's been a challenge. It's been tough.
Fiona Oakes:
I've pushed myself very hard. I'm very, very proud to say everything I've done in sport, I have done very honestly, just through hard work. I've never taken any enhances, any shortcuts, anything. It's been very, very important to me. This is done very, very honestly. And could I have been any quicker now? I don't think I could, because I think that the key that I've had, rather than a sports drink or a massage, has been inner passion that drive that not many people can be blessed with.
Fiona Oakes:
It's kind of a life and death thing, like a gun to your head and you can really perform. But the gun hasn't been at my head, but it might as well have been because the heads of those I actually do put above myself. And it sounds a little bit kind of glorified. But that's the raw way I've looked at it.
Fiona Oakes:
If I can place in the Berlin marathon, if I can be filmed or photographed or interviewed in the elite enclosure with Haile Gebrselassie, that's actually what I want from this race. Because I know that everybody's looking. And whether subliminally or not they're associating the vegan runner with being one of the best runners. So I don't need to tell him that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Have you ever seen the documentary that came out two years ago called "The Game Changers"?
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah?
Fiona Oakes:
Well, I was cut from it.
Rip Esselstyn:
What do you mean, cut from it?
Fiona Oakes:
I was the first person they actually filmed for that in 2013.
Rip Esselstyn:
Nice, nice.
Fiona Oakes:
James came over and filmed me for it. And he went back to LA. And he couldn't get the funding. But as soon as they got the funding in 2015, he contacted me with Louie and said, "We want to come over. And we want to film you."
Fiona Oakes:
And they spent three days at the sanctuary filming, filming the running and that sort of thing. Unfortunately, I got cut out because it just didn't fit the message of the film. And I get that. I get it.
Fiona Oakes:
It's really, really difficult because I come at it from a bit of a unique angle. And I think it just didn't fit what they were trying to achieve with that particular film. But yeah, I-
Rip Esselstyn:
So you-
Fiona Oakes:
I know about it.
Rip Esselstyn:
And to the point that you're doing, trying to broadcast out to the world that, "Listen, you can be vegan and eat plant-based and be at the top of your game, the best of your game." And really that's what "The Game Changers" did. And it really helped move the needle. It's now the most watched documentary on the planet.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. It's a great... you've got to appeal to a certain audience. You've got to know your audience. And to be honest with you, no one person is going to change the world. There isn't one formula to change the world.
Fiona Oakes:
And I do realize that my message is a little bit specific for some people don't want to live like this. And I fully accept that. This is a path which has chosen me rather than I've chosen it, if you get my drift.
Fiona Oakes:
So I don't really care, whatever triggers someone. I can't be somebody I'm not, I can't be false. I can't pretend I'm not a flashy person. It's not a sexy lifestyle that I'm selling. It's really hard. And for some people, that wouldn't trigger them. They'd probably just think I was a lunatic, basically.
Rip Esselstyn:
How many different farm sanctuaries do you have or that you're a part of?
Fiona Oakes:
Well, I've got the one in Russia that's mainly dogs. But we are proud to say that we actually got bull fighting banned in Moscow many years ago. They were intended in bull fighting as a quickie. Unfortunately we rescued the last two cows. But they insisted on delivering them to us themselves, the people that had them. And they brought them with their necks broken. So that wasn't ideal. And the one in Kabul and one in Kiev.
Fiona Oakes:
People write to me. When I was in Russia for the marathon, part of the world record, I have to say, people do ask me, "What's the country you've been most welcomed in and recognized in?" Definitely Russia.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. I've had wonderful...
Fiona Oakes:
And you know what? I was in Omsk for the marathon, it's the biggest marathon. It's the Barham Standard Marathon. It's bigger than Moscow. And I was waiting for the presentation, the prize presentation, and my friend was interpreting for me. And she was telling me that this great woman of great strengths was coming onto the podium. And it was a big, big crowd.
Fiona Oakes:
And I'm thinking, "Wow." And then they called me. And I thought, "Crikey, if they think you're tough in Siberia, you've got it going on." But at the press conference for the IWAS, when we'd arrived in Omsk, I'd only gone for a very, very short period of time. And I kept going through time zones. And when we arrived eventually at nine o'clock the following morning, the day before the race, I was so tired.
Fiona Oakes:
You know like when you want to cry, you're that tired? You just literally cannot. You can't do any more. We've traveled. I went to bed. And after a couple of hours, the phone rang, and it was a desperate plea from a lady with a sanctuary, a dog rescue in Omsk.
Fiona Oakes:
And she said, "Would you come as an ambassador to see us? If we can get a newspaper reporter here, would you come and kind of endorse the sanctuary from a Western perspective?" Because obviously in Russia, and I cannot blame these people for this. I never blame. I never judge. I don't know people's circumstances. People forget that a decade before that it was practically illegal, or certainly frowned upon to not eat meat in Russia. Because obviously it was considered an imperialist thing to be vegan or vegetarian. So it's completely, completely different mindset.
Fiona Oakes:
We now do a lot of education in Russia. But we go to schools to do it. Trying to educate people who've lived in terrible, terrible hardship is very, very difficult for the older generation.
Fiona Oakes:
And anyway, when I was in Omsk, they said, "We beg you, if you could, in any way, use any media, just to mention our name." And at the press conference, I was asked, "Why did you come, choose this marathon to run?" And I was able to talk about the rescue.
Fiona Oakes:
And from that, they got urban municipal grant.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Fiona Oakes:
And that's just an amazing thing. And they were, oh, it was so beautiful. They were all there at the finish line waiting for me to thank me. And I hadn't done anything. I just used literally a little bit of a voice I've got. I haven't got much of the voice, to be able to help what a bigger blessing can be rather than just to help yourself and grab, help others. That's what the message is mainly.
Fiona Oakes:
You might think it's a sacrifice to go out there and work hard or do something for this. But actually, ultimately I know the rewards I've got from doing this and having this life now are far greater than any physical material thing you could ever give me. And I know that.
Fiona Oakes:
So yeah, I will help. I mean, obviously in Brazil, I've got people that I help. I'll help wherever I can. But my ability is limited. I don't have that kind of reach or exposure.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
So winding down, what can people do that are listening to this are just moved to want to help and give? What can they do to help you with your farm sanctuary? Where can they go?
Fiona Oakes:
Well, go to the website Tower Hill Stables or the Instagram site at Tower Hill Stables or Facebook Tower Hill Stables. I am going to be honest with you.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
I don't. I wouldn't say, I don't know. I'm not a big social media person personally at all. But they can contact me online through the usual portals of Facebook or Instagram Tower Hill Stables and it comes up.
Fiona Oakes:
And just get in touch, reach out. Do you know what? I feel so ashamed because everybody always asks me how to contact me it's Fiona at Twitter or Instagram or whatever it is.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Fiona Oakes:
It's not natural for me to want to ask people. I want them to go out and make a decision on their plate. I remember when I placed in a marathon, there was a beautiful image of me running up the mile alone.
Fiona Oakes:
And I look good and I'm splendid in my vegan runner vest. And there's a helicopter above me. And a vegan group in Sweden wrote me and said, "We are begging you. Can we use that image of you? But we can't put your name on it. It's for a billboard poster. We just want that image." And I said, "Yeah, I don't want Fiona Oakes to be famous. I want the word vegan to be familiar to people and accepted by people and truly."
Fiona Oakes:
So I'm supposed to reel off all these fancy oakes.fiona in Tower Hill and it doesn't come naturally. It doesn't come naturally to walk in a room and want to be the center of attention. It doesn't come naturally to go anywhere and want to take a selfie picture of myself. I truly don't do it for that.
Fiona Oakes:
I don't care if no one ever hears of me, my name. I just want positivity surrounding this message to get out. It's not about me. It's about a message. Thankfully towerhillstables.com can be helped obviously, financially. I put all my money, anything we've got, my parents, everything and all the pensions go into everything they've got, goes into the feeding of the animals.
Fiona Oakes:
But other than that, I want you to go out there and lead a happy and healthy vegan life and respect all life, human life, animal life, and realize that we're all so intricately connected. The planet, the environment, each other, I just want us to be good to each other. And as I say, learn to live alongside, learn to rather than always fight and shout, be connected and realize that we're all very, very similar. We all feel pain. We all feel the same emotions, whether you're in Afghanistan or America or Algeria. We're all fundamentally human beings. And the animals are all animals and they all suffer. So let's not make them suffer anymore.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. Fiona, this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for everything that you've imparted to me over the last 90 minutes. You do it in such an open candid, Fiona, just strip it all back, here's what it is, way. And we all can learn a great lesson from you. So, thank you.
Fiona Oakes:
Yeah. Thank you. I'm sorry. I'm not more professional. I'm sorry. I'm not more, but this is just who I am. And I never wanted to change. I wanted to keep it real.
Rip Esselstyn:
We need more people who are a hundred percent authentic. And that you are.
Fiona Oakes:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
So thank you so much. And man, get out there. Have a nice evening run.
Fiona Oakes:
I will do. You take care.
Rip Esselstyn:
Peace. And it's a two, keep it plant strong.
Rip Esselstyn:
I think that all I can say after hearing Fiona is, "Wow." I mean, wow. And thank you Fiona for absolutely everything that you are doing for humanity and for the sanctity of life for the animals. You are such an inspiration. You put it out there and are all in like nobody else.
Rip Esselstyn:
If you guys are interested in learning more about Fiona's work with our animal sanctuaries, visit the Fiona Oaks Foundation website or the Tower Hill Stables website. And of course, we'll have the links in the show notes to both at the episode page on plantstrongpodcast.com.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate you sharing your stories and we'll see you next time.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thank you for listening to the Plant Strong podcast. You can support the show by taking a quick minute to follow us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Leaving us a positive review and sharing the show with your network is another great way to help us reach as many people as possible with the exciting news about plants. Thank you in advance for your support. It means everything.
Rip Esselstyn:
Have you had your own Galileo moment that you'd like to share? What happened when you stepped into the arena and shed the beliefs that you thought to be true? I love to hear about it. Visit plantstrongpodcast.com to submit your story and to learn more about today's guests and sponsors.
Rip Esselstyn:
The Plant Strong podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Kortowich, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin and Wade Clark. This season is dedicated to all of those courageous truth seekers, who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth. Most notably my parents, Dr. Caldwell B Esselstyn, Jr. and Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks for listening.
Podcast Sponsors
