#166: Dr. Yami - How to Love Your Body and Plantstrong Food at Any Age
As busy families, it’s easy to catch yourself coming and going, shoveling back quick meals without even thinking, and prioritizing convenience over health, especially when you’re constantly pressed for time.
You know you’re supposed to incorporate healthier eating habits for your whole family, but HOW?
Enter board-certified pediatrician, certified lifestyle medicine physician, health coach, and mother of two, Dr. Yami!
Dr. Yami’s work and her private practice focus on how families can start to integrate more whole plant-based foods into their diets and adopt other healthy lifestyle habits even when moving a million miles a minute.
Easier said than done, right?
Well, Dr. Yami literally wrote the book to help families in this transition. A Parent’s Guide to Intuitive Eating: How to Raise Kids Who Love to Eat Healthy, is packed with research and support to help parents and families work together on creating a healthier lifestyle.
We talk all about body shaming and how to get your kids to eat whole-food plant-based without forcing it down their throats and allowing them to follow their kind of intuitive eating clues.
Even if you’re not a parent, you’ll love the advice of Dr. Yami, especially if you consider yourself to be a picky eater (spoiler alert: most of us are).
As Dr. Yami says, we can’t necessarily control what our bodies look like, but we can control how we view them, and her work is all about starting an ongoing conversation with your family about getting healthier TOGETHER.
And that’s what it’s all about!
You’ll Hear:
8:00 Dr. Yami’s many credentials and certifications
10:15 Why did she write Intuitive Eating and How to Raise Kids Who Love to Eat Healthy?
11:15 Dr. Yami shares her own personal journey to plants and her TEDx talk inspiration
17:42 Dr. Yami is finally a proud “Super Pooper” after decades of constipation and Miralax
20:30 When and why Dr. Yami decided to open her own private practice, with an emphasis on nutrition health
27:10 What exactly is “Intuitive Eating?”
32:20 What happens when parents start to force kids into specific eating patterns and times? Why can this be a slippery slope?
35:35 What about body image? How can we instill a positive body image in our children?
43:00 Dr. Yami didn’t always have a positive body image. Why did she loathe her body and what has she done to feel better in her body?
45:35 Rejecting weight stigma in kids - why this is such a complex issue and important to understand that poor nutrition and body image can affect anyone.
50:46 How to work with “picky eaters” in the family (and this includes adults!)
52:40 What do you think is the best way for a parent to frame a conversation with their children about starting to eat healthier in the household?
54:50 Eating out! Yes - you can get plant-based meals at places like Taco Bell, Panda Express and Wendy’s! Dr. Yami shares some of her favorite finds in fast food restaurants.
Episode Resources
Dr. Yami’s TEDx Talk - “From Chicken to Chickpeas”
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Rip Esselstyn:
Hey, PLANTSTRONG family. It is officially soup season, which means it is hot in our house especially around the stove top because we love, especially as we head into the weekends, cooking up some sort of a stew or chili or soup. I've been recently making a corn chowder, a sweet potato corn chowder in fact, using our sweet corn broth as the base. And I'm telling you right now, our family could eat it every day for the rest of 2022. It is that good. In case you guys didn't know it, we have four unsalted organic, no added sugar, no added oil, PLANTSTRONG culinary broths that have the best distinct flavors that can elevate each and every one of your favorite recipes. For example, my wife, Jill loves using our Spanish style sofrito broth. It's got all these great aromatics of onions and garlic, roasted peppers as the base for a chili recipe that she's been making and it really gives nuance to each and every bowl. So if you guys love broths as much as I do, you can pick up a sampler pack at plantstrongfoods.com today.
Dr. Yami:
I felt like I was flawed and that my body was ugly and that I was a failure. There was times where I was suicidal when I was younger, mostly because of my body. And I think that's the biggest waste. And that's why I'm so passionate about this because I don't want another child to feel like the purpose of their life is to be a certain size. People have so many talents. They have so much to give to the world. They have so much light and energy. I don't want them to be spending all that time counting calories or trying to get their bodies a certain size.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm Rip Esselstyn and welcome to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. The mission at PLANTSTRONG is to further the advancement of all things within the plant-based movement. We advocate for the scientifically proven benefits of plant-based living and envision a world that universally understands, promotes and prescribes plants as a solution to empowering your health, enhancing your performance, restoring the environment, and becoming better guardians to the animals we share this planet with. We welcome you wherever you are on your PLANTSTRONG journey, and I hope that you enjoy the show.
Hello, PLANTSTRONG pumpkins, and I use the term pumpkins because fall is definitely in the air. Halloween is right around the corner and school is officially in full swing. I mean, there are so many activities going on right now between swim practice, gymnastics, piano, tennis. It just goes on and on and on. It is officially nutso here at the Esselstyn household. We are finding ourselves shoveling back meals without even thinking about it, we are constantly pressed for time. The truth of the matter is we are occasionally prioritizing convenience over health. And I get it. I think that you all get it as well, which is why I know that you are going to love this conversation with board certified pediatrician, lifestyle medicine physician, health coach, and mother of two, Dr. Yami. Her work and her private practice center on how we as families can start to integrate more whole plant-based foods into our diets and how we can adopt other healthy lifestyle habits even when we're moving a million miles a minute.
We talk all about body shaming. We talk about how to get your kids to eat whole-food plant-based without forcing it down their throats and allowing them to follow their kind of Intuitive Eating clues. I found this to be really a very riveting conversation that passed by in the blink of an eye. So parents, you are absolutely going to eat this conversation up. I want you to know, even if you don't have children and you're not a parent, I think you're going to love some of the advice that Dr. Yami gives, especially around being a picky eater. I want you to know that many of us, we can't control what our bodies look like, but what we can control is how we view them. And Dr. Yami's work is all about us instilling healthy, sustainable habits that start an ongoing conversation with our family members and allowing us all to get healthier together. Okay. I loved this conversation. I know you will too. Let's welcome Dr. Yami.
Hey, Dr. Yami. How're you doing today?
Dr. Yami:
Hi, Rip. I'm great. It's such a pleasure to be here. I'm super excited.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, well, it's exciting for me too. It's funny, I've heard a lot about you as of late. I think that Jane and Anne were recently on your podcast for their new book, Be a Plant-Based Woman Warrior. Did you have fun with them?
Dr. Yami:
I always have so much fun. It's the first time I've interviewed your mother, but I've had your sister Jane a couple of times and also on my YouTube channel, and it's always a riot. She's hilarious.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah, they are. They are a riot. Now, so your full name is Dr. Yami Cazorla-Lancaster. Did I pronounce all that right?
Dr. Yami:
Yeah. And actually it is not my full full name.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh.
Dr. Yami:
My full name is Yamileth Rosina Cazorla-Lancaster.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh my.
Dr. Yami:
But I just go by Dr. Yami.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Wow. Well, we'll do that then. Okay. We'll keep doing a little simple here today. Now, where do you hail from right now? Where are I talking to you from?
Dr. Yami:
I am currently in Yakima, Washington, which is Central Washington. I live in a small town about two and a half hours east of Seattle.
Rip Esselstyn:
And how long you been there?
Dr. Yami:
13 years.
Rip Esselstyn:
And is it beautiful there?
Dr. Yami:
Oh my goodness. I'm originally from Panama and I grew up in Texas. I don't know, you're in Texas, you've probably seen Texans, where there's a lot of Texans that are like die hard Texans. If you grow up in Texas, you're loyal to Texas. And that was our plan. After residency, we were going to go back to Texas, but we discovered the Pacific Northwest and fell in love, and now we're transplants. But it is just so beautiful here. It's a gem. And I feel like it's one of those hidden secrets of our country because it's just so beautiful. And my family and I, we love outdoor activities, so it's perfect for hiking and mountain biking and snowshoeing and skiing and all the things. All the outdoor things. And you just feel so lucky to live in this part of the country. So I think we're here to stay for at least a while.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah, I'm very envious of you guys, especially when I'm here in the summers and we have 114 degree days. You have two boys, right?
Dr. Yami:
Yes. Almost 13 and 17 years old.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. Wow. Well, I can't wait to dive in. So tell me a little bit about your certificates, your medical degree, things like that.
Dr. Yami:
Well, I'm a board certified pediatrician first of all, and that's first and foremost what I do. I own my own practice here in Yakama. So I practice primary care pediatrics. And I say that I practice primary care pediatrics with an emphasis on lifestyle medicine. So I'm also board certified in lifestyle medicine through the American Board of Lifestyle Medicine.
Rip Esselstyn:
When did you get that?
Dr. Yami:
2019, so right before the pandemic. And then I also am National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach as well. I've been coaching for a few years as well. I am a Certified Food for Life instructor through the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, which I taught classes for many years, and I'm going to start teaching again in the spring. I have the plant-based certificate. I mean, I have all the things. But really what I do is I spend a lot of time talking about how we as parents and families can just integrate more whole plant foods into our diets and the diets of our families. I like to try to keep it simple with an emphasis on all the positive benefits that we can get from eating more whole plant foods, but also the other lifestyle habits, which they're very important as well. We know that it can't just be in isolation. We have to make sure we're sleeping adequately and moving our bodies and managing stress and all of those things. But talking about plants is my favorite.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I want to talk about a lot of that, and I want to talk about how you specifically talk to parents, talk to kids, because I think it's a real art form and in something that is really needed especially in a culture that there is a, and I think you use this in your TED Talk, but there's a major kind of cognitive dissonance right now with a lot of people around this lifestyle. So there's a lot of barriers to overcome. And I mean, you wrote a book, Intuitive Eating and How to Raise Kids Who Love to Eat Healthy. When did you write that book?
Dr. Yami:
That was also published in 2019.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Dr. Yami:
So I think a lot of things happened in 2019. But yeah, A Parent's Guide to Intuitive Eating: How to Raise Kids Who Love to Eat Healthy. And the reason I took that approach is because I feel like there is lots of information about how we should all be eating more fruits and vegetables and eating more plant-based foods, but where parents struggle is how to do that. And because as a society, especially now, parents are pretty anxious about making sure that they're doing a good job. That anxiety and that stress of feeding our kids perfectly can actually lead us to make choices and have behaviors that backfire ironically. And it makes it more stressful and less fun for everybody. So I felt like I needed to write a book to help parents, especially parents that are raising their children plant-based, have more fun and experience more joy in feeding themselves and their children.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I can't wait to dive into some of that. Before we do, I think it's important that people hear a little bit about your personal journey. Again, I mean, I'm not going to tell it, but I just want to say that in listening to your TED Talk that took about 19 minutes, it was very informative as far as your background. So will you let everybody know why you're not an animal lover? Or maybe you've become an animal lover, but why growing up and why your foray into this lifestyle wasn't for the animals?
Dr. Yami:
Yes. So the reason I emphasize that in my TED Talk is because I feel like there's this perception that in order to eat a plant-based diet or in order to even identify as vegan, you have to be this person that has the, "I break for squirrels" bumper sticker and "I save whales" bumper sticker. But the truth is, you don't have to identify as a die hard animal lover that has their own rescue in their backyard in order to see the logic behind eating more plants and eating less animals. My family to this day in Panama are still dairy farmers, so have a pretty large dairy farm in Panama. And so I grew up around animals, and I grew up with the belief, very strong, ingrained belief that we must eat animals, we must drink milk. If we don't do those things, bad things are going to happen to our health. Especially with my culture being Panamanian, I think growing up there was a lot of, "You stay at the table until you finish everything. You must drink your milk several times a day. This is for your health." And so I had that mentality.
And then when I went to medical school in residency, it was reinforced, especially for pediatrics. For pediatrics, basically we were taught children after 1, two to three glasses of milk. Teen girls, lots of milk. You have to drink that milk in order to have healthy bones, otherwise bad things are going to happen. And what we learned in my one hour nutrition class was more the problems with deficiencies that can happen if you don't eat animal products. And so if someone's vegetarian or vegan, you're afraid of these things happening. So it was more taught to us that it's something to fear something that's weird, something that shouldn't be done. It's risky.
I started doing long distance running by doing some half marathons. Ever since medical school anatomy lab, I've suffered from plantar fasciitis. It kind of went away and then it came back when I started running and I was just looking for different solutions because I had fallen in love with running, and I started reading a book called Born to Run. And in that book, which really the premise is about barefoot running, but one of the main characters in the book is Scott Jurek and then the Tarahumara Indians in Mexico who are predominantly plant-based or were at the time especially in the past, maybe not so much now. When I started seeing that, okay, there's a vegan ultra athlete and there are these people where their whole culture revolves around running and they eat mostly plants and they do these athletic feats that you need a lot of energy for, and it doesn't seem like they're dying off in malnutrition, so that's where the cognitive dissonance really hit me, like, "Wait a second. There's something here that I must have missed somewhere."
And that's when I became inspired to just try it. I wanted to see what it would feel like to just eat plants for 30 days. I really had no agenda behind it. I didn't predict anything was going to happen. I wasn't hoping anything specific was going to happen. I was just genuinely curious. But it just blew my mind because within three days, my constipation, which I was 100% sure was genetic because everybody in my family had it and I was on MiraLAX as an adult every day, so were my children by the way, within three days it was gone.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, I've had a lot of people that say they have been diagnosed with lazy bowel syndrome, which is basically, yeah, you're eating the standard American diet. That's what it is. I want to stop you for a sec, because you just start talking about the Tarahumara. I want you to know that in 1995, I took a mountain biking trip down to Copper Canyon and went in and actually met the Tarahumara and saw them in their wonderful colorful attire jogging around. It is absolutely for real.
Dr. Yami:
That's awesome.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's like this culture that has been caught in time and things have not... I mean, they were still living in caves in the side of the mountain and walking down to get their water from the river. I loved that book, Born to Run by Christopher McDougall. I actually went and saw him at a book signing here in Austin, Texas, probably in 2011, 2012, and just ate it all up. I fell in love with Scott Jurek and I've become friends with Scott, but yes. So what a great way for you to get inspired with this lifestyle.
Dr. Yami:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Good for you.
Dr. Yami:
I even wore the FiveFingers for a long time to clinic and stuff, so I tried it out. Ultimately, it wasn't the best thing to be barefoot for me, but it was cool. It was cool. But yeah, I mean, it was so inspirational, and that's when I was like, "I need to try this." And I tried it and I felt great. And I was pooping, which is amazing. I love to poop.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you're running and pooping.
Dr. Yami:
Remember you spent like three decades not pooping. Sometimes there's only once a week. I mean, that's not normal. You know what I'm saying?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, what's your definition of a super pooper?
Dr. Yami:
Super pooper, I would say more than three times a day. I don't know. At least. I'm definitely a super pooper. I'm proud card carrying super pooper.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, good.
Dr. Yami:
So yeah. And then by the end of that month, I had already seen all the documentaries, read the books. I was not going back by the end of that month. And then I just took another month to read the literature that was available to me about children, whether it was safe. And then I was like, "Okay, not only is this safe, but there's actually benefits to this? Where was all this information before?" It was there, but it wasn't available to me. It wasn't taught to me. I didn't know about it. And that's when I changed over the entire household. And it's been over 11 years now.
Rip Esselstyn:
And so you said your kids are 13 and 17, if I remember correctly?
Dr. Yami:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Gotcha. I mean, they were very, very young. When you decided to jump in, did your husband and your two kids join you as well?
Dr. Yami:
Yeah, so my kids were 18 months and six years old at the time. And because I am the primary meal maker and grocery shopper, there were no complaints from them. I just changed everything over. I'm a good cook too, I think that really helps because everything was great. I was experimenting with all this stuff and I had so much fun. In fact, I feel like I became an even better cook after I went plant-based because I had less fear. I wasn't afraid that there was going to be E. coli and salmonella and everything. I have this feeling like it's okay to mess up and so I just experimented a lot and had so much fun. So the food was delicious.
Now, my husband, he's a very different personality from me. And so it took him longer to get to this place on his own. At the beginning, he was still socially, what I call a social omnivore. So vegan at home, but socially more omnivorous. But he's an avid athlete, so he loves mountain biking, he's into the hiking, the downhill skiing and all of that stuff. He discovered over time that when he was eating meat, it would just make him feel more sluggish and he wasn't performing as well. So it just naturally over time it just fell off because it didn't feel good in his body with his sports.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm. All right. So you got the whole family on board. So you've got your pediatric practice going on, right?
Dr. Yami:
Yes. At that point I was working at a community health center, so I didn't have my own practice yet. But yes, I was working as a pediatrician.
Rip Esselstyn:
So what I'm wondering is at what point did you decide, "Okay, this is not just going to stay internally with me and my kids and my husband, but I need to bring this truth and this light to my medical practice"?
Dr. Yami:
I'm sure I started talking about it right away, because if there's something that is that important to me, I can't keep my mouth shut about it. I'm just like a information spreader. So I know I started talking about it right away. But my website, Veggie Fit Kids, I think I started around 2013. So that was probably a couple of years after we went plant-based. And the reason I started that was because I was spending so much time explaining to people in the office, "Okay. This is how you do it. This is how you make these recipes. It's super simple. It's not difficult." But then I also started hearing from some people that were saying that their pediatricians and their healthcare providers were afraid, that they were scared, and they were telling them, "No, you shouldn't do that," that that's not healthy for your child. And so I felt compelled to have a place where parents and caregivers and maybe even other medical providers can come and find more information so that they could feel more reassured that this was a safe thing to do for children.
So once I started the website, I started doing YouTube videos and creating simple recipes. I'm definitely not a recipe creator, but creating simple recipes that are accessible to, because where I live, there's a big underserved population as well. So financially, I didn't want to make these recipes that were super complicated or really expensive to make. I wanted to make something that was accessible and easy for parents and something that they could get from their grocery store.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So what's interesting to me is that, for example, I've had a cardiologists on the podcast and they have had to spend, in some cases, two years getting their head wrapped around this new lifestyle that they're now going to prescribe and push to their patients because it is such a conflict of interest with their salary, with their money, all that. As you said in your TED Talk we talked about earlier, there's a huge cognitive dissonance. Wow. I mean, I can either prescribe a stent here or broccoli and brussel sprouts and steel-cut oats.
Dr. Yami:
Yeah. Well, I'll say that in general. I have a lot of doctor friends. I'll say that in general. We went to med school because we truly want to help people. And it makes us feel very uncomfortable and it makes us feel we're failing when our patients aren't getting better. So what I've heard, what I've experienced myself and what I've experienced from other healthcare providers is once they find the plant-based nutrition, the lifestyle medicine and people actually adopt it and start feeling better, it reinvigorates your passion for medicine. You're actually starting to feel like, "This is why I went to med school."
What's difficult is whenever you practice with other people that still don't understand, they don't know the research, they're close minded to it, that's where I think the biggest conflict is, is because you're sharing a practice with other providers. You're saying, "Hey, I'm not fond of dairy. I don't think it's doing you any favors," but this other provider saying, "No, you still need to drink your milk. It's not safe to stop drinking milk." And that's why eventually I had to leave and start my own practice is because it was really uncomfortable. I would see my partner's patients for sick visits and things like that, and I would see issues that I thought could be improved by getting off dairy and eating more plant foods. It was uncomfortable because I didn't want to step on toes and this poor families getting too completely different opinions and they're confused. And so that's really difficult as a physician.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I think it's so heartwarming for me to hear that you had the courage to follow your convictions, follow your heart, and start your own practice so you could be 100% pure with it. Going back to something you said a little earlier is, as physicians you become a doctor because you want to truly help people. But I mean, I would say that it seems to me that... And again, I'm generalizing here, but that the vast majority of physicians unfortunately have fallen or they're working with a paradigm currently that isn't allowing them to achieve the results which are what inspired them to get into medicine in the first place. So they're in a system that's very flawed. And so the fact that you are able to look outside that flawed system and reach out for one where food is medicine is... I just... Anyway. So my next question for you is this. So you started your practice, are you being accepted by mothers and children in your community? I mean, how is your practice doing?
Dr. Yami:
Amazing. Yeah. It's-
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, there you go. It's [inaudible 00:25:47].
Dr. Yami:
It's doing great. I'm telling you, in the past 11 years since I went plant-based, the world is changing for sure. At the beginning when I would tell people, "Yeah, I don't want your kid to drink milk or I would recommend decreasing or eliminating milk," parents would look at me like I had a third eye.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, you're not patriot.
Dr. Yami:
But now parents are like, "Yeah, I've realized I'm sensitive to dairy. I actually am not comfortable giving dairy to my child." It's a different world. Now, I will say that my families are a little bit self-selected because I do run a practice that advertises that I care about nutrition and lifestyle medicine. So families that are already that's something that they value are selecting to come to me. So there's some bias there of course. But people, they're starting to get informed. And my families, when I give them the information especially if I'm able to give them studies or references, they read it and they're like, "You know what? This makes sense. I think I want to try this for my family." And of course, the other thing is that in a decade there has been an explosion in products that make it much easier for families to adopt a plant-based lifestyle. I mean, there's over 20 commercially available plant milk. So if you don't like one, try a different one.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So like you said that you were running a little late to the podcast because you were seeing some patients. What's the typical time that you spend with a patient? Or is it very [inaudible 00:27:17]?
Dr. Yami:
Well, all of my well child checks are 30 minutes long. And so we're usually in there the whole time. And of course, if the kid's doing great and there's not much to talk about, we don't need to spend the whole time. But these were new patients that needed a little bit more time and had some issues that we needed to discuss. So that's what I pride myself in my practice, is that I do set aside time to make sure that families feel heard, that I answer all their questions, and we have time to talk about nutrition and lifestyle. Because ultimately what it comes down to, the biggest gift that we can give our children is these lifestyle habits and behaviors. It's not going to be the medication or the referral. It's going to be these behaviors that they're going to take with them to college and beyond.
Rip Esselstyn:
Do you have anyone in your practice that helps these patients start out the lifestyle, like take the first steps?
Dr. Yami:
Not really. I mean, we're a very tiny practice.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
Dr. Yami:
It's just me, my office manager/MA, and I just hired a physician assistant. So I don't have a bunch of ancillary staff or dieticians or doing any of those things. It's just really me answering all the questions. But I have tons of resources. So of course I have hundreds of podcast episodes, all of the freebies on my websites and all the different resources I can send families to so that they feel comfortable taking that first step. And then I'm available to my families by phone pretty much 24/7. So they can call me on my cell phone evenings, weekends, and all those kinds of things. So we have very close intimate relationships in my practice so that I can hold their hand through these transitions.
Rip Esselstyn:
Nice. Intuitive Eating. So what does that mean? I think I know what it means, but I have not read your book. I apologize. And so I'd love to know what that is.
Dr. Yami:
Okay. So intuitive eating is a term that was coined by two dieticians in the late '80s, early '90s, Elyse Resch and Evelyn Tribole. They have the book Intuitive Eating, it's in it's 5th edition now that they wrote that talks all about the principles of intuitive eating. The reason that they even developed this is because they were seeing in their practice a lot of people that were struggling with disordered eating and just really attached to this external reasons to eat, like, "I have to be on this meal plan, or I have to count these calories" and all of this. And so they develop these principles to guide people back to tuning into their bodies and rejecting diet culture and all of that.
So I took these principles. And what I tried to do is simplify it down for parents, because what happens with parents as I said earlier is we get stressed because we start making assumptions once our kids, especially toddlerhood, preschool age, they just don't need to eat as much. They start leaving food on their plates. They start rejecting food because they go through this period of neophobia and parents start to try to get their child to eat more. So I want to help parents remember that children are born intuitive eaters. That means that they know when to eat, they know when to stop, they're able to tune into their hunger and their satiety. So I'm trying to help parents learn how to honor that. Honor hunger and satiety, but still be the gatekeepers of the nutrition of the household, of what you're going to buy, what you're going to prepare, what you're going to offer.
So I simplified those principles down so that parents can understand that it's okay to support and encourage intuitive eating in your children so that it's a skill that remains with them for a lifetime. Because right now with the current way that we raise children when it comes to eating, we're teaching intuitive eating out of children by the time they're around five or six years old.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. That is really interesting. I know that with our kids, I think for the most part we've applied those principles. But I know there's times when like with my youngest who's eight years old, we've set here, "You cannot leave this table until you at least take a bite of this or have more of this," because we know in half an hour she's going to want to have a little bowl of something before she goes to bed. And so I know that you did a, I think it was a blog post or something recently where you mentioned that one of the things that you do not do anymore as a pediatrician is force a child to eat in meal time.
Dr. Yami:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
And I think that's really interesting. Can you expand on that?
Dr. Yami:
Yeah. Let me just validate you, Rip, because seriously this is very common. And like I said, 85% of parents try to get their child to eat more. So you are in the majority. This is really common. And it's something we also learn from our parents and our grandparents, so it's been passed down for a long time. But what happens is whenever we either encourage or bribe or cajole a child to eat more, we are conveying to them that we don't trust their appetite signals. And the research shows that whenever we force a child or encourage a child to eat more, it actually does the opposite. It causes them to eat less and less variety of fruits and vegetables. And I think the reason is because some children become anxious. So then they know when they go to the table no matter what they say, they're going to be forced to eat something that either they don't want or they're not hungry for. And so it probably causes them to pull back.
Now, the opposite is also true. For parents that are concerned that their child might be eating too much or has a larger body size, when they restrict foods, it also backfires. And the child, guess what? They become more obsessed with foods, starts to try sneak foods. You see wrappers everywhere, those kinds of things. So both methods backfire and do the opposite of what we intend.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you just trust your child, don't make a big deal of it and let them do their thing. And as parents, I think as long as we are serving our kids healthy, nutritious foods, and for me and you that means whole plant-based foods-
Dr. Yami:
Absolutely.
Rip Esselstyn:
... we'll be in a good place.
Dr. Yami:
Yes, but we do want to take an authoritative parenting practice and create a flexible structure with loving boundaries. So that means that if your child comes to the table and they're like, "I'm not hungry. I don't want to eat," but then they get up and they go to the pantry and get two granola bars, that's not the structure. That's not working for you, right? So we have to have our meal times and our snack times. For most children, especially young children, they need to eat about every two to three hours. Older children, maybe every four, five hours. But it's okay to have breakfast, lunch, dinner, a couple of snacks in between, and maybe even a bedtime snack depending on what time y'all eat dinner and what time the child goes to bed.
So what I tell parents is, "You don't want it to turn into this all day grazing session because that doesn't support healthy eating either. Because if they're just snacking all day, by the time they get to the table, they're definitely not going to be hungry, right? And so they're not going to be hungry for that meal that you prepared." So if a child doesn't eat at dinner, that's fine. You don't force them, they're not hungry. But their next eating opportunity is going to be at a set time. Now it's going to be flexible, because of course life, right? So it may not be exactly at 6:30 PM or whatever, but it's around a certain time that's going to be their next eating opportunity. And for children that may not be hungry at dinner, you can always say, "That's fine. We will save this meal. And then if you get hungry and you want to eat at your bedtime snack time, then you can have it then."
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, I like that. This is a lot of really great information. What about a body image? I know especially in today's culture there's a lot of emphasis on body image. One of your pillars of your book, Intuitive Eating, is about fostering a healthy body image in our children. How do we do that?
Dr. Yami:
Yes. Yeah, that pillar is to create a positive environment. And that's referring not just to creating a positive environment by the foods that we bring into the home, because we know that what we see is what we want. So we want to make sure that we have plenty of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, beans, nuts and seeds in our house so that that's our vision board for life. If you want to eat plants, you got to have plants around you, right? And so that's part of that. But the other part of creating a positive environment is what we consume with our ears and with our eyes, the words that we're speaking. So there's something called fat-talk that a lot of women, a lot of people, but particularly women engage in, in that we just love talking about how much we hate our bodies and the next diet we're going to go on. This is so common that it's normalized and people don't even realize that they're doing it.
But what happens is when we're like, "Ugh, my thighs are so fat. I need to lose weight before the summer time," is that we are conveying to children that the appearance and the size of their bodies is something that we highly value and that they probably need to highly value it too. And so this can lead to some disordered eating, especially depending on some kid's personality type. So watching out for the words that were saying, making sure that they're positive. If you can't say anything positive, try not to say anything. Some people can't say anything positive yet because they are still struggling themselves with their own body image, but the best thing you can do is at least don't say it.
And then also the magazines you buy. I mean a lot of us, I remember when I was really into my dieting days, I would subscribe to all the magazines because I thought it would inspire me to lose weight. So I had the SELF and the Shape and the Weight Watchers and all the magazines, which all have the same headline in the front, "How to lose 10 pounds by Summer. How to cut your Calories," whatever. And so that message is being promoted over and over and over again. You should be dieting, you should be thinner, you won't be accepted unless you're thinner. This should be one of your goals in life, is to be this certain size and shape.
And like I said, some children are more susceptible to it than others, but it's better to just have an environment where that's not the focus. Body size is not the focus, because the truth is that body size is very complex and there are so many things that go into it. We cannot control the size of our own bodies. We cannot control the size of our children's bodies. But what we can do is instill healthy, sustainable habits. Eating our plant foods, moving our bodies, getting adequate sleep, managing our stress, connecting with others, avoiding risky substances. Those are things that we do have some control over as parents and families.
Rip Esselstyn:
I love all that. Tell me this. So you mentioned dieting. So did you used to diet before you found this?
Dr. Yami:
Oh yeah. I mean, I started dieting around eight or nine years of age.I didn't stop dieting the first time until right around when I discovered plant-based nutrition. For people that have been dieting and had disordered eating and poor body image as long as me, it's a bumpy road. It's not a smooth straight sailing path, so I've struggled off and on. But I would say that discovering plant-based nutrition and understanding food a different way, before I discovered the power of plant-based foods and whole plant foods, I saw foods more as like calories. Calories and maybe nutrient-based. Like, "This food has calcium, and this is a high calorie food. This is low calorie." That's how I learned to see the world. But once I discovered whole plant foods and focused more on fiber and satiety and just making meals that taste delicious and you're able to eat a large quantity of food because I'm a volume eater and feel good and it's not affecting you negatively like some of these other foods might, it's very liberating. So you can let go of some of that need to be counting and weighing and all of that.
But it's a very complicated society that we live in. And even within our own community, even within the plant-based community, there's still a lot of disordered eating practices. So I think that it's one of those things that we're probably going to struggle with. But eating whole plant foods and the principles of sticking with the whole plants, choosing foods that are high in fiber, I think in general are good things to teach our children, the benefits of that for their health and their wellbeing rather than focusing on, "Oh, it'll keep you trim or it'll help you lose weight." You know what I'm saying?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, totally. Now you used the word liberating, and I love that word because I do, I find this is the most liberating way to eat where, for the most part, you're eating copious amounts of food. You mentioned, I think that you said you're a volume eater. I love to eat, right? Huge volumes. And you can do it in a way because it's so calorie light and nutrient dense and all the water and the fiber, it fills you up before you had time to taking too many calories. So let me ask you this. Where you're perched today? Are you happy with your body and where you are?
Dr. Yami:
Yes, I am. I will tell you that there was a time in my life where I had such intense self-loathing. It was so intense. I just hated myself and my body. And I can honestly say that I'm decades older now, there are some days that I definitely love my body. I don't think anybody's going to love their body every single day. But regardless, I just see my body in a completely different way. Most days I can at least see it in neutral. And a lot of days I can see all of the ways that my body supports me and all of the great things I can do. I've gotten into power lifting recently. I'm really good at that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Good for you. Yeah.
Dr. Yami:
And so it's really fun to be like, "You know what? I eat 100% plants and I can deadlift 255 pounds." It's just so amazing that my body can do that and I have that structure, that genetic structure and the advantage in my body that I'm able to enjoy those types of exercises. So I'm in a much better place than I was in my 20s and my early 30s.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, in watching your TED talk, I was like, "Whoa, you are jacked." You looked strong. And that was in 2019. I can't even imagine how strong you are now, especially if you've embraced the power lifting. So when you say self self-loathing, tell me a little bit like what does that look like and feel like and how long did that last?
Dr. Yami:
It lasted decades. It started when I was really little, single digits. It was mostly input from my family and society that I needed to be thinner, that I was eating too much, and that I needed to control my intake so that my body would be thinner. And because it was really difficult to do that and I could never sustain that, I felt like a failure. I'm super successful in so many different ways in my life, like straight A student, medical school, all of these things, so much success. But because I never felt like I could achieve that level of thinness that I feel like society reflects upon us that is the ideal, I felt like I was flawed and that my body was ugly and that I was a failure.
There was times where I was suicidal when I was younger, mostly because of my body. I think that's the biggest waste. And that's why I'm so passionate about this because I don't want another child to feel like the purpose of their life is to be a certain size. People have so many talents, they have so much to give to the world. They have so much light and energy. I don't want them to be spending all that time counting calories or trying to get their bodies a certain size.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, here's the thing, is that don't you feel in many ways that the children of today, with all of the process and refined foods that's everywhere, and because they're literally caught in the pleasure trap, I mean they are going to be weighing way more than they should, they're going to then therefore have body image issues. It's almost like it all goes hand in hand. For example, I have a friend who's a pediatrician in the Boston area and he works in a very underprivileged part of town and he said, "Rip, it is crazy the number of patients that I see." He said, "I saw 11 and 13 year old brothers. The 11 year old weighed 220 and the 13 year old was in his high 300s. They came in because they wanted breast reduction surgery." Boys. I mean, this is crazy.
Dr. Yami:
Yes. Yes, but I will say too, because like I said, I'll say this so many times, it's such a complex issue and we have to be careful as healthcare providers, as loving citizens, that we are not engaging in weight stigma. Because with things like this, especially you have a child that's underprivileged, they may be a minority in lots of different ways and they're getting stigma for a lot of different reasons. Studies show that stigma itself, the stress of stigma itself leads to weight gain. Because if somebody already has developed a habit of eating to cope with their emotions or eating to cope with scarcity because of these recurrent bouts of food scarcity that happened from food insecurity, then they're just going to do it more when they're feeling stressed from the stigma, and it just creates a vicious cycle. So we need to be compassionate and I think that the most important thing is we need to work on this from the top down, because it's not these children's fault that all they have access to is these ultra processed foods.
Right now in the United States, our children in this country, 70% of their calories are coming from ultra process foods. 7-0. The majority of their calories coming from ultra process foods. And they're not the ones doing the grocery shopping.
Rip Esselstyn:
No.
Dr. Yami:
They're not the ones that are putting it in the grocery stores and all the access. So this definitely has to come from the top down and we need to make some changes and we need to help families learn this information and we need to help them access these foods. And that's the only way we're going to be able to change this. But the weight stigma will only make it worse. It's only going to make this situation worse.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, there's a been a couple days of big meetings in Washington DC around nutrition. Eric Adams and Cory Booker and Neal Barnard and Dr. Dean Ornish, a lot of people that are advocating for more plants. So hopefully we'll get something going there. So you say that it's probably not a good idea to put a child on a diet especially for weight loss. But I would assume that when you have a patient, a child that comes in and is overweight, you do put them on a whole food plant-based lifestyle. Is that correct?
Dr. Yami:
Well, one of the things I think is important to know is that there's children of all sizes eating ultra processed foods.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's the truth.
Dr. Yami:
So it's not just the larger bodied children. We are so biased in that we see a large body child and we're like, "Oh, okay, we need to make sure that they're..." But there's plenty of children that are typical size within their charts, within their BMIs, that they're eating all ultra processed foods and they're constipated and they're having chronic abdominal pain and that kind of thing. So really it's the majority of children that I'm seeing that I'm counseling on, "Let's eat more whole plant foods. Let's get the dairy out. Let's decrease the meat. Let's get more beans." I'm a bean pusher for sure. I feel like I'm talking, I'm pushing beans every single day. So these are conversations I have with everybody because we need to help all the children.
And with the larger body children too, there's some children that are just going to be larger bodied even if they're eating whole plant foods all day long. It just is the truth. There's a lot of complexities to body size. But for these children that are very far on the curve, that they're outliers, I think that we also have to take into account that there might be other issues there. I know that there's not a lot of single gene problems that are causing extremely large body size, but there's lots of different types of genetic issues and familiar issues that can lead to this extreme large body size.
So eating a whole plant food diet may not be enough in order to arrest the development of some of these secondary conditions that are really what's going to decrease our health, which is going to be the diabetes and the high cholesterol and the hypertension and the heart disease. So there's definitely going to be a category of children that are going to need more intervention. But I still don't think that the right thing is to automatically put everybody on a diet and say, "You need to eat this many calories and you need to restrict your food." But like we were saying before, when we're eating whole plant foods, especially if the majority of what we're eating is whole plant foods, that calorie density naturally drops, children aren't feeling restricted, it's delicious, it gives them energy, they're sleeping better. And so it's a win-win-win situation.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah, we're fans of that. We have a lot of different parents that come to myself and my wife and they're like, "I don't know how have you guys done this with your kids. My kids are the pickiest eaters. I don't think I could ever get them to do this." I know you talk about this extensively. So what is your recommendation for picky eaters?
Dr. Yami:
The majority of parents would describe their children as picky eaters, especially between the ages of one and five. So it's very common. Like I said, children go through this phase where they have neophobia. So new foods, what they think are weird looking foods they don't want, okay? So that's very typical. But as humans, this includes adults as well as children, we only learn to like what we're exposed to. So it's a vicious cycle when parents are saying, "My child is a picky eater." First of all, labeling them. And second of all saying, "Oh, they'll never eat that" and not giving them that, it's only going to get worse. You know what I'm saying?
So I know it's difficult and I know it's an anxiety provoking and it sounds counterintuitive, but the only way to get your child to accept a food is to keep offering the food without pressure. Remember that part I talked about. If we're forcing them at backfires, right? So we have to keep preparing that food. Don't be afraid to be creative. It's okay. If they don't like broccoli steam, try broccoli roasted, try broccoli soup, try broccoli with a cashew cheesy dip. You try all different ways without pressure. Keep offering. That child will eventually start to accept the food. And like I said before, it works for adults too. And adults need to be role models. So I have plenty of parents who admit, "I don't like vegetables." So you have to do the work yourself. You have to expose yourself to those foods, start eating those foods, prepare those foods, serve those foods, and offer those foods. That's the only way that your child is going to accept it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What do you think is the best way for a parent to frame a conversation with their children about, "Hey, you know what? We are going to start eating healthier in this household for this reason and this reason and this reason"? Is there a way that you suggest parents navigate that conversation?
Dr. Yami:
Yeah. Some of it will depend on the age of the child of course. But if you have school-aged children, they're not tiny little kids, then it's fine to say that, "I've done some reading. I've read these books and watched these documentaries. I realize that there's some foods we can be eating that will benefit our health, that they're good for how we feel, give us energy. They're going to be good for keeping our hearts healthy and keeping our brains healthy and helping us live a longer life. And I want to start including some of those foods in our meals and in our diet. So I'm going to start doing that." And depending on the age of the child, you can say, "I'd love for you to help me. We can look at recipes together. We can go grocery shopping together. That's going to be fun." And position it more as a thing you're going to add rather than saying, "We're going to stop eating all meat and drinking all milk and dairy." Automatically people are like, "What are we going to eat?" Instead, talk about the things you are going to eat."You know, I read how chickpeas are super high in fiber and there's so many things you can do with them. Is it okay if we try some roasted chickpeas and we could season them? What kind of seasoning do you think you would like? Do you think you want kind of like a southwestern like a taco flavor? You want to do like an Asian flavor and Teriyaki sauce? What would you like to try?" Do it like that and your brain opens up when you're presented with this positive addition rather than a subtraction.
Rip Esselstyn:
I like it. Oh, let's pivot for a sec. "So I have cooked Monday through Thursday. I am sick and tired of spending another second in the kitchen. I can't handle it. 'Kids! Get in the car. We're going to the Bell, we're going to Taco Bell'." So tell me, I know you have a special place in your heart for Taco. Please tell us why and how can you order healthy whole food plant-based at Taco Bell? Teach me this trick, please.
Dr. Yami:
I love this. Okay. So my husband and I have been together since we were in college. In college you're really broke. You don't have any money and you're up late studying. We used to go around midnight to Taco Bell and then we would argue. This was back in 1999 when it was like 69 cents for a bean burrito. We would argue about whose turn it was to pay.
Rip Esselstyn:
Nice.
Dr. Yami:
Our total was like 2.50 or something for everything we bought. So we've always had this history with Taco Bell and my kids love Taco Bell. Now, I'm not going to say I endorse eating fast food all the time every single night, but we live in the real world and we're real people. And like you said, sometimes we just get tired of cooking and we want to have some options. But it doesn't mean that when you eat fast food, you can't have some options that are going to be at least a little bit more health promoting than your standard burger and fries.
So Taco Bell is actually very vegan friendly. Now, they use a lot of oil and they use a lot of salt, okay? So that's one thing to know. If you're not used to that, you're going to be swollen the next morning. But their beans are plant-based and they have lots of different things that you can do to change the order to make it 100% plant-based so that it doesn't have any animal products in it. And they're coming out with even more products now. So I actually have a video on my YouTube about how we usually order at Taco Bell. And just getting the bean burritos, plain bean burritos with no cheese is a good option. It's very filling and the kids love it. But like I said, it's not going to be an every single day sort of thing. That's probably not going to be as health promoting, but whenever you need that eating out. We eat out once a week at my house. So we know that every Friday night, that's our routine. That's part of the way we do things. That's one of the options that we could potentially have.
Rip Esselstyn:
I love that. And I love it that it was the Bell. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've been to Taco Bell and I've gotten just the bean burrito, right? So I watched your video. It's a 9-minute video, it was adorable. But you ordered the seven layer burrito, right? You ordered the bean burrito, a cheesy bean and rice burrito without the cheese, a crunch wrap supreme and a power veggie bowl. I didn't even know they had power veggie bowls and you could do that, that was a thing. The only thing in the power of veggie bowl and the crunch wrap supreme, that wasn't really whole food plant-based were the potatoes, right? That were fried. But otherwise I was like, "This looks incredible. I'm headed to the Bell line."
Dr. Yami:
That's so funny.
Rip Esselstyn:
But you also talk about some other restaurants. Tell me about Panda Express and also Wendy's, because those are two places that I've been to, but not in years. How can we do that?
Dr. Yami:
Well, I know that Panda Express recently tried, I think they called it Beyond Orange Chicken. We have not gotten a chance to go try it yet because we've been so busy. But typically what I order at Panda is basically just rice and veggies. And their veggies are really good.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Yami:
They're fresh. They make them right there and they're cut fresh and they're cooked fresh. It's just such a good option especially if you are traveling. That's one of the places I look for. Generally they'll have brown rice, but sometimes they don't. So you may have to opt the white rice and just the veggies. And that for sure will get you by. But besides that, most places they don't have any other plant-based option. Like I said, they're testing out the Beyond Orange Chicken. And then in some states they have some tofu stuff, but not in our state. So that's really [inaudible 00:59:05] there.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, it's interesting. I was at, I think it was the Charlotte airport recently. I just kind of walked through the Panda Express line and I saw they had a separate big old rice cooker and it was just brown rice. So you're right, you can get the brown rice. And then they just had steam broccoli and I think they had tofu. So that's cool. What about Wendy's? How do do I have Wendy's?
Dr. Yami:
Wendy's, I don't go there as often, but they have baked potatoes there. So that's a really good option too because we know how filling potatoes are. We've just been so mean to potatoes. I think potatoes have such a bad reputation now. But a baked potato is really, really filling. Only thing is you want to leave off the cheese and the sour cream and all of that stuff. But yeah, they have that available in a pinch that you can go get that at Wendy's. And then I think one thing I showed in the video too was a couple of salads that they had there as well.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm. Well, you've got me... Literally, I watched that video and I'm like, "I'm going to Taco Bell this weekend."
Dr. Yami:
I love it.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm going to make it work. No, it just jazz me right up. Hey, we're running out of time here, but let me ask you this before we leave. What's your phobia with whales?
Dr. Yami:
Oh my gosh, they're so beautiful, but they're so big. I mean, have you seen those videos where people are kayaking?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes.
Dr. Yami:
I think I would have a cardiac arrest if that happened to me, because I think it's just the massive size. Now, I found the other day that there's, and now I can't remember what it is, but there's actually a term for people that are afraid of large underwater creatures. So that's me, like this is a thing. I'm not the only one in the world. But yeah, I think they're beautiful. I'm glad they're there. I want to protect them and all that, but I don't necessarily want to be right next to one.
Rip Esselstyn:
Uh-huh. I think they're friendly. I haven't heard of too many whale attacks, right?
Dr. Yami:
Well, I'm sure they are. I think it's just the massive size. It literally makes me feel like I have tachycardia. I don't know. They're just so big.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, let me put you at ease, Dr. Yami, because you can't have a heart attack because you don't have the blockages in there. It's not going to happen. You are such a champion of the whole food, plant-based lifestyle that you are heart attack proof. I feel confident.
Dr. Yami:
It's true. My cholesterol has been well under 150 for at least a decade. I probably will just have a vasovagal reaction and pass out and then wake up.
Rip Esselstyn:
There you go.
Dr. Yami:
The whale will be like with it's eye looking at me and then I'll pass out again. That's probably what'll happen.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, this has been so much fun. I want to do this again sometime soon because I got a lot of other things I'd love to throw your way. But before we leave, where can people find you? Do you have a handle on Instagram, your website, all that stuff?
Dr. Yami:
Yes. So social media, I'm @thedoctoryami. I'm mostly active on Instagram. And then my podcast is Veggie Doctor Radio. I'd love to have you on some time, Rip. That would be such an honor. Love to have you of course. I said I've hosted your mom and sisters and that was great. My website is doctoryami.com. And then I also have veggiefitkids.com. You can get to both of the websites from either website. So if you find one, you can find the other. Before we leave, I'd love to tell a quick story if you don't mind.
Rip Esselstyn:
Hit me.
Dr. Yami:
Okay, so I have here-
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh yeah.
Dr. Yami:
... my Engine 2 Diet and here is your signature.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh my gosh.
Dr. Yami:
This is from 2014.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Dr. Yami:
This is lovely. Okay, so this is my story.
Rip Esselstyn:
Where did you get that though?
Dr. Yami:
I don't remember. We were at a conference together somewhere.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Dr. Yami:
And you signed it. I love it. I love this book. I just recently made the Raise the Roof lasagna again this weekend because I knew that the podcast was coming up. And that is such a crowd pleaser. I always triple the recipe when I make it because we love it so much. But my story is my mom went plant-based about six months after I did. She did the PCRM app, now I forget what it's called, but the one where it just takes you through for the month. And so then she was plant-based after that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is that the 21-Day Jumpstart?
Dr. Yami:
Yeah, 21-Day Jumpstart. Thank you. Or Kickstart. But my dad, he's more stubborn. So he's old school and it just, ugh, no matter what I said, he just was resistant. I really wanted to get them both on board, especially because my kids spent a lot of time with my parents. y'all were having an Engine 2 retreat in Portland. Dr. McDougall was going to be there. He was one of the guest speakers. I just knew if my dad heard from Dr. McDougall that it would click because he's that kind of generation, he's the no nonsense kind of guy. So I actually said, "I'm going to pay for y'all. I'm going to pay for your hotel. I'm going to pay for the entry. Can you please just go?" And they both said yes. They both came back. My dad was converted. It was your Engine 2 retreat and Dr. McDougall that did the trick and it was the best money I ever spent. So that's my story.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's a great story. I love hearing stories like that. Man, thank you for all the great work you're doing and the passion that you're putting out to promote plants. This has been a great gift. Thank you.
Dr. Yami:
Thank you. And thank you for all that you do. You're a fabulous podcast host and I love you and your family and everything that y'all are doing too. So I'm always at your service if you need me.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, thank you. All right. Will you hit me up with a little PLANTSTRONG fist.
Dr. Yami:
All right. Boom!
Rip Esselstyn:
Whoo! Thank you.
Dr. Yami:
Thank you so much.
Rip Esselstyn:
I love that Dr. Yami had the courage to not only follow her heart, but also follow what she felt was the right thing for her patients. And that really forced her to open her own private medical practice and health coaching business. You can learn more about all of her resources, including her book at doctoryami.com. That's spelled D-O-C-T-O-R-Y-A-M-I. I'll be sure to put a link to that and more in the show notes on the episode page at plantstrongpodcast.com. Until next time, enjoy the change in the season, hug and support your kids, and always keep it PLANTSTRONG.
The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin, and Wade Clark. This season is dedicated to all of those courageous true seekers who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth. Most notably, my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr. and Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks for listening.
