#167: The Mediterranean Diet Done Right with Debbie Adler
It has been said that necessity is the mother of invention and Debbie Adler epitomizes that phrase. In 2006, she opened Sweet Debbie’s Organic Cupcakes bakery, the first to feature vegan and sugar-free treats.
However, a year later her son was born with many life-threatening allergies, forcing her to take an even deeper dive into nutrition and food-related illnesses. Because of her son's needs, she developed recipes and new baked goods that were not only vegan and sugar-free, but also gluten and allergy free. Her business skyrocketed.
Her son is now 14 and doing great, thanks in part to her diligence. Debbie has since gone on to write three cookbooks, including her latest, The Mediterranean Plate, which is what we discuss today.
This book is filled with delicious Moroccan, Greek, Spanish, Italian, French, and Middle Eastern recipes without all of the oils, fish, meats, and cheeses that are so prevalent on the Mediterranean diet. In fact, not only is every recipe whole food plant-based, but also salt, oil, sugar, and gluten-free.
We dig through foods that may be familiar to you, but with Debbie’s special twist - think gnocchi, moussaka, pancakes, her recipe for feta, soups, and so much more.
Cooking from scratch can be intimidating, which is why most of these dishes are “one-pot” recipes, minimizing mess and clean-up. She even provides her recommended equipment and pantry staples to make this adventure as simple as possible.
So enjoy this conversation and mouth-watering tour through, “The Mediterranean Plate,” with Debbie Adler.
Episode Highlights:
Debbie’s reason for starting her vegan and sugar-free bakery
Why write The Mediterranean Plate?
Her Top 18 Ingredients for Healthy Aging
Kitchen must-haves and favorite spices and seasonings
Gathering grains, flours, and powders - What should you have in your pantry?
Preferred sweeteners, canned-foods, and favorite tools/appliances
Rip and Debbie’s mouth-watering tour through the book!
Episode Resources
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Full YouTube Transcript
Rip Esselstyn:
Hey, plantstrong gang. If you're looking to stock your pantry with ready to eat meals that you can make in less than two minutes, I kid you not, our PlantStrong chilies and stews are a lifesaver and your answer. Just this week, I got an email from Tim Carlson who wrote in to say, "Rip, I'm a super busy dad, a volunteer football coach, and a full-time safety compliance officer for my job. My wife is even busier than I am, so it's been a lifesaver to pick up your firehouse chili at my local Sprouts. I'm clearing the shelf every time I shop there. Thanks for making food that tastes great, and does my body good."
Well, Tim, you are most certainly welcome. I am so glad that you found us at Sprouts. For all of you that don't know, we now have our chilies and stews available at about 3000 different stores around the country. Simply visit our website at plantstrongfoods.com to find the store closest to you.
Debbie Adler:
The Mediterranean Plate was inspired by a lot of requests by my followers for Mediterranean dishes that didn't have fish or olive oil or meat, because a lot of people don't even know how to do Mediterranean without those ingredients. So, I decided that I was going to take on that challenge to figure out, "Well, yeah, you don't have to have fish or meat or even olive oil to do Mediterranean." I started to study what are the Greek, Spanish, French, Italian, Middle Eastern recipes that people love and make them whole food plant based. That was it.
That was my inspiration. I listen to my customers, my followers. I listen, I ask them questions, "What do you want? What do you want from me?" Then, they tell me and then I do it, and that's what they wanted.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm Rep Esselstyn and welcome to the PlantStrong podcast. The mission at PlantStrong is to further the advancement of all things within the plant-based movement. We advocate for the scientifically proven benefits of plant-based living and envision a world that universally understands, promotes, and prescribes plants as a solution to empowering your health, enhancing your performance, restoring the environment, and becoming better guardians to the animals we share this planet with. We welcome you wherever you are on your PlantStrong journey, and I hope that you enjoy this show.
It has been said that necessity is the mother of invention. My guest today, Debbie Adler, epitomizes this phrase. In 2006, she opened Sweet Debbie's Organic Cupcakes Bakery, the first to feature vegan and sugar free treats. Just a year later, her son was born with many life threatening allergies and she took an even deeper dive into nutrition and food related illnesses. Because of her son's needs, she developed recipes and new baked goods that were not only vegan and sugar free, but also gluten and allergy free, and her business skyrocketed. Her son Sean is now 14 and doing fantastically well. Thanks in large part to his mother's diligence.
Debbie has gone on to write three cookbooks, including her latest, The Mediterranean Plate, which is what we discussed today. What's also so great about this book is that when you think of the Mediterranean diet, most people think about fish, oils, lamb, and cheese. However, this book is completely plant based, but it's also salt, oil, sugar, and gluten free, and guess what? It's also eye poppingly gorgeous. Today, we dig through foods that may be familiar to you, but with Debbie's special twist, think gnocchi, moussaka, pancakes, and her recipe for feta cheese and soups, and so much more.
I know that cooking from scratch can be intimidating, but I want you to know that most of these recipes are one pot recipes, minimizing mess and cleanup, and are super, super accessible. She even provides her recommended equipment and pantry staples to make this adventure as simple as possible. Enjoy this conversation and mouthwatering tour through the Mediterranean Plate with Debbie Adler. Hey, Debbie.
Debbie Adler:
Hey, Rip.
Rip Esselstyn:
Hey, welcome to the podcast.
Debbie Adler:
Thank you so much.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now, have we ever met?
Debbie Adler:
No. We have not.
Rip Esselstyn:
You know what? I didn't think that we had, so thanks for confirming that. You have really gotten into this whole food plant-based lifestyle in a major way, haven't you?
Debbie Adler:
I have. I have.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. That's super exciting. Tell me, what sparked all of this passion and excitement for you?
Debbie Adler:
Well, I don't know how far back you want me to go, so I will start with my son who was born with severe and life threatening food allergies. That was 14 years ago, and I had to deal with figuring out what to eat, what is safe for him to eat. That created a very big research endeavor for me. I was trying to figure out why he was born with these allergies, why millions of children are now being born with these allergies. It got me down this road of a lot of reading and research. Somebody suggested that I read the Chinese study, and I was already vegan, but my son is ... one of the things is casein.
It boggled my mind. It was so exciting to me that they used casein in the study to figure out that that was the cause of a lot of that bad things. I realized, "Wow, okay." Then, everything else he said about the whole food plant-based lifestyle got me very excited and I had to go the whole way. It was, no salt, no oil, no sugar. That was the addition to my vegan lifestyle. I went to a conference, it was in Anaheim, the International Plant-Based Nutrition Conference that's held every year. I went and I listened to what they were saying and all the patients that were up on that stage saying they were one day away from bypass surgery.
Then, they went on the whole food plant-based diet and they didn't have to have the surgery. I was like, "Woohoo." I came home and I spoke to my husband who's a physician, and a lot of his patients are diabetic and they have high blood pressure. I said, "You have to talk to them about this." He was like, "I don't know. I don't know. They like to take pills. I don't know if they're going to want to do this." I said, "All right, I'm just telling you." Because I was like over the moon. Then, a year later, a resident of my husband said, "Dr. Adler, I think that we should talk to our patients about the whole food plant based lifestyle."
Rip Esselstyn:
Nice.
Debbie Adler:
He said, "Talk to my wife." That's what he said. He said, "Talk to my wife." Because he, at that point, wasn't really familiar, but I started to serve the meals. Everything was the way that you know, and everyone was on board, because if it's delicious, nobody cares. Really, nobody cares. That was it. Then, I started to do the recipes and putting them online and doing the lives and everything. Then, a year after I read the Chinese study, the publisher of the Chinese study asked me to do a cookbook for them that was whole food plant based and allergy free, so top eight allergy free. That was my full circle.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. Okay. Let me ask you some questions about what you just said there. You said that your son had these pretty severe food allergies.
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
At what point in his life did you guys realize that this was an issue?
Debbie Adler:
He was one, and I gave him a taste of frozen yogurt, just dairy, frozen yogurt, taste, one taste. He went into full blown anaphylaxis, which means that several systems of his body were shutting down. For him, he was throwing up and he couldn't breathe. We called 911 and we went to the hospital, and luckily, they were able to bring him back. We went to an allergist after that and we found out through a blood panel that he had a lot of different allergies. However, what we didn't know was that a year later I gave him a flax cracker. Same thing, he anaphylaxed to the flax, which is very unusual.
That's why it's not even on a blood panel. When they do blood panels, it's the usual eggs and nuts and dairy and wheat. But this was a very unusual allergy to flax. He anaphylaxed again to the flax. Same thing, EpiPen, go to the hospital. We figured it out by the time he was two, and so that was it. We knew he had these allergies. Then, we had to avoid all the allergens. I created a bakery around this whole thing. It was Sweet Debbie's. It was allergy free, vegan, sugar free by the way, sugar free also. His allergist said, "By his bar mitzvah," she said, "by his bar mitzvah I'm going to have a cure." She promised that. He was two. She says, "By his bar mitzvah, I'm going to have a cure."
Rip Esselstyn:
Bar mitzvah is what, 13?
Debbie Adler:
13? Yeah, 13. She came through, by the time he was 10, which was four years ago, she's at UCLA and Stanford in conjunction with each other, came up with a protocol where they gave the children who have these allergies a little bit of Xolair, which is a drug for asthma. They give them the drug twice. It's a shot. Then, they give them their allergens in tiny quantities. It's a multi allergen protocol, whereas before, they never could do that. They could only do one allergen at a time. If you had a lot of allergies, so a lot of things, you'd spend the rest of your life desensitizing yourself.
They did five for my son. They did five of his allergens. This protocol was a clinical trial, and he was able to desensitize to five of his allergens, which was amazing, within eight months.
Rip Esselstyn:
Do you know what those allergens were?
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, so it was cashew, flax, egg, dairy, and the fifth was another nut. I think it was hazelnut. Within that time, they did it every two weeks and then I had to supplement with also giving him, and I had to measure it on a jewelry scale, I felt like a drug dealer, you know those little jewelry scales? You have the powder and you have to really weigh it to the gram. You have to be very careful, you weigh it to the gram.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Debbie Adler:
Then, I would give him in mango, like a sorbet, he doesn't like ice cream., sorbet, put it in there and he would eat that. In that time, about eight months, he was able to ingest his allergens without anaphylaxing. It was not a cure, but it's called a desensitization. Now that he's 14, this is already four years, he can go out to dinner. By the way, we never ate out the first 10 years of his life. We never ate in a restaurant. We never went on a plane. When he went to birthday parties, I always had to bring him a separate cupcake.
It was very, very restrictive, and so when this happened, it was like a weight off our shoulders because it was hard to send him to school to worry. Maybe a kid will give him something unknowingly. Anyway, so that's what happened.
Rip Esselstyn:
What's his name?
Debbie Adler:
Sean.
Rip Esselstyn:
Sean. Well, Sean must be very excited that he's desensitized through those guys.
Debbie Adler:
Oh my god, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
You mentioned that your husband is a MD. What kind of physician is he?
Debbie Adler:
He's an internist.
Rip Esselstyn:
Internist. Did he go to this initial conference with you?
Debbie Adler:
I wish he had. I wish he had. No, he had to stay home and watch my son, who was very young at the time. I went to one, it was the second one they ever had. It was a while ago. He stayed home. I wish he had.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is he eating all the food that you are creating? Is he on board?
Debbie Adler:
Yes, he is. Now, he is. Yes. It took a year and it took for his resident to mention it, I have to say.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, we know how that is sometimes. Sometimes the people that are closest to us were like insignificant others, and then they hear it from somebody else and, "Oh, wow. Maybe I should check that out."
Debbie Adler:
Exactly. Right.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, that's pretty exciting. One of the things that I have to mention here is you have a book that you just launched. It's right here. It's absolutely gorgeous. It's the Mediterranean Plate, right? Plant-based recipes free from gluten, salt, oil, and sugar. I want to talk about this today. This is your third book, right?
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Your first book was Sweet ... Was it Sweet, Savory, and Free?
Debbie Adler:
No, the first one was Sweet Debbie's Organic Treats. That was based on my bakery. Then, the second one was Sweet, Savory, and Free. Very good. Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
The Sweet Debbie's Organic Treats, the bakery, what motivated you to do that kind of an entrepreneurial endeavor? Was it so that Sean would just totally be head over heels in love with his mother?
Debbie Adler:
Well, it was because I was hungry. The second reason was, because there was nothing on the market at that time. Now, there is, but at that time, we're going back years ago, there wasn't anything on the market that was sugar free. That was initially my concern before even Sean was born, was there was nothing sugar free without sucralose, and so I was figuring that out. I actually started my bakery a year before he was born with the sugar free. It was not sugar. I never used sugar. Being it sugar free. Then, so my motivation was really my sweet tooth, because I couldn't find a cupcake without sugar.
Then, he was born with these allergies, so then I revamped the whole bakery to be allergy free, gluten free for the people who were celiac. Nobody really knows the difference. You don't need the gluten-free, it doesn't matter because it's still very good and nobody complains. My motivation first was being hungry for a cupcake, and then my son having these allergies and then doing my research and realizing there are 15 million kids in the United States alone, let alone around the world, who have these allergies, who cannot have regular, conventional treats. I figured, I can't allow a child to have a little rice cake with a candle in it on their birthday, so I have to do something.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. That doesn't sound very celebratory, does it?
Debbie Adler:
No, and so that was my second motivation, was to do it for my son, do it for all these kids. Sure enough, business got even better once it was allergy free because there was a real need for it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is that a bakery that still exist?
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, it's a bakery that still exists. It's commercial kitchen and they deliver and they sell all over the United States. I ship, deliver.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Debbie Adler:
Come to your door, whatever you want.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow, that sounds pretty incredibly entrepreneurial of you. Way to go. You launched that what year?
Debbie Adler:
Well, that was 2006. It was like a year and a half before my son was born. Then, he was born and then became allergy free in 2009. It was a year after he ... it was when he anaphylaxed in 2009, so it was a year old, 2009 it became allergy free.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. That's like 16-year old business you have going on now?
Debbie Adler:
Yes, yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. How much are you involved in the day to day these days?
Debbie Adler:
I'm involved. I'm very involved. Yeah, I still bake. I still bake. I do the books. I'm also a CPA, so I do the books.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. Well, good for you. Then, so Sweet, Savory and Free, that came out in 2017?
Debbie Adler:
Exactly. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, 2017. That was already when I was doing the meals as well.
Rip Esselstyn:
The meals as well. Expand on that.
Debbie Adler:
No, that was just for ... I don't sell the meals. I was just doing it for my family.
Rip Esselstyn:
Got you.
Debbie Adler:
Like I said, doing it online and showing and doing meal plans and showing people how to do it and doing little IG lives and all that. That was just showing people, "This is what you do and how you do it. This is how you saute vegetables without oil." Because a lot of people don't even think you could do that without oil. There's a big learning curve as you know, a lot of people don't realize that olive oil isn't good for you. There's a lot of misconceptions still. I just figure I could teach and hopefully help.
Rip Esselstyn:
Were you doing Instagram Lives back in 2017, '18?
Debbie Adler:
Well, I don't even remember when I started the Instagram Lives. Whenever it started, whatever year that was. I was doing whatever they allowed me to do at that time. Maybe it was Facebook Lives at first and then it was Instagram, so whatever it was, YouTube. Just trying to show people the possibilities.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Good for you. Now, what inspired this new book, the Mediterranean Plate, and why is it called the Mediterranean Plate?
Debbie Adler:
The Mediterranean Plate was inspired by a lot of requests by my followers for Mediterranean dishes that didn't have fish or olive oil or meat, because a lot of people don't even know how to do Mediterranean without those ingredients. I decided I was going to take on that challenge to figure out, "Well, yeah, you don't have to have fish or meat or even olive oil to do Mediterranean." I started to study what are the Greek, Spanish, French, Italian, Middle Eastern recipes that people love and make them whole food plant base, and that was it. That was my inspiration.
I listen to my customers, my followers. I listen, I ask them questions, "What do you want? What do want from me?" Then, they tell me and then I do it, and that's what they wanted.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, I want to dive into a bunch of these recipes, but before I do, I want to talk about some must haves that you suggested people have in their kitchen and in their pantry. You also, in this book, you really focus in on the anti-aging aspect of eating whole food plant based, and a lot of the 18 best anti-aging foods that are out there. I think that that's really, really smart. But what is it that had you focus in on this healthy skin and removing the wrinkles and all that stuff?
Debbie Adler:
I wonder what it was. I wonder. Well, okay, Rip, I'm going to have to tell you why.
Rip Esselstyn:
Please.
Debbie Adler:
I turned 60.
Rip Esselstyn:
Say what? Really? That's amazing.
Debbie Adler:
I turned 60. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. If I had to guess, I'd say like 48.
Debbie Adler:
Well, thank you. That was on my mind because when I was writing it, that was on my mind. "Oh, my God, I'm turning 60. I'm turning 60." I was thinking, "Well, I know there are certain foods that are better than others in terms of anti-aging." Of course, if you do a whole food plant based lifestyle, of course it's going to be good for your body and your skin and everything, but maybe there's something a little bit extra. I just wanted to know, because I'm not into surgery. I'm not into anything like that. I was going to do it with food.
I started doing research, and sure enough, there were certain foods, 18 by the way, that I found kept coming up over and over and over again in my research. Those are the ones you see listed at the beginning of the book. Then, I used them throughout the book. I tried to use them a lot throughout the book. Of course, there are other ingredients I use too, but those are the top 18. If you do the research, you find that it comes up over and over again, that this is particularly helpful for different reasons for anti-aging purposes.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's surprisingly, some of the foods that made your top 18 list after researching this out were asparagus, and broccoli, and blueberries, and avocados, and Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, cucumbers, kale, lemons. I like that. Shiitake mushrooms, pomegranate seeds, spinach, red bell peppers, sweet potatoes, tomatoes, to name a few of the 18. All super delicious. Where do you live, Debbie?
Debbie Adler:
I live in Los Angeles.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. I like the fact that you're not into the surgeries and the injections and you're more into whole food plant based. I love it.
Debbie Adler:
Yes. Yeah, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Great. It's good.
Debbie Adler:
Totally.
Rip Esselstyn:
Do you mind, I would love right now to jump into some of the must haves. You've been doing this a long time and accumulated quite a bit of experience. I'm going to throw out some stuff to you, and then if you could just answer whatever feels right. Let's start with herbs and spices. You have a list of herbs and spices. Are there a couple that you want to talk about right now for our audience? For example, I can start by saying one that caught me on your list was the, and I'm probably not pronouncing this right, the kala namak.
Debbie Adler:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
A.k.a black salt.
Debbie Adler:
Right. It's so funny. I hardly ever use it because it is a salt, but you know what? It helps. If you saw the recipe, avocado toast with veg.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, yeah.
Debbie Adler:
That recipe, I'm afraid to show the picture without a disclaimer, because some people see the picture without the recipe and they start yelling at me. I thought you were vegan. What are you doing with eggs?
Rip Esselstyn:
There it is right there.
Debbie Adler:
It's a very scary picture because it looks like a hard boiled egg. If you read the recipe, you'll see that there are no eggs. It's not an egg. I make it with potatoes and a thing called agar-agar. The reason I use kala namak in that recipe, and it's the only recipe I use it in, is because it helps it taste like an egg. Kala namak has a very sulfurous taste and it tastes like an egg. When you use just a little bit in this recipe, you will think that you are eating a hard boiled egg. It is for that reason only that I did make the exception to use a little bit of salt and have it in that recipe.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, that photo, a photo was worth a thousand words and I'm like, "Whoa, that is an egg." That's remarkable.
Debbie Adler:
But it's not. It's not.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. Besides that, for the avocado with veg, what are some of your go-to spices that you would recommend every house has? Or, is it just the list that you have here in the book?
Debbie Adler:
Well, I listed what I use in the book in that list, so people would just have it. Because the worst thing that somebody can do is to start a recipe and not have an ingredient because then they get so discouraged and they don't want to do it. They don't want to go to the grocery store. I always say, "Please do a little bit of an inventory, have it, and then you're ready to go. You'll just grab it." Because then you're more likely to make the recipe. Whatever I use normally is the cumin, the smoked paprika. A lot of people don't know you can get smoked paprika, which is so much better than paprika, in my opinion.
That's what I like. The ginger, the cinnamon. What do I use? Cardamom, coriander, so those are my staple, black pepper, very simple, basic, nothing too exotic staples that are always in my pantry, so I can always make something that tastes good.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes. No, herbs and spices can do wonders. Let's move to condiments. One of your condiments that I see is apple cider vinegar. You're a big fan of that?
Debbie Adler:
I am a very big fan. A very big fan. Yeah, it does so much.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Give me an example. What is it something that it does?
Debbie Adler:
Well, you can saute in it. People say, "Well, how do I roast vegetables if I don't have oil?" Well, pour a little apple cider vinegar on it, it makes it a little salty and it gives it a little zesty taste. Just put it in the oven and you have a gorgeous caramelized roasted vegetable. Dressings, I put it in all my dressings because it's very mild. In almost every dressing in that book, you will see apple cider vinegar.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's interesting you say that. We were coming out with a commercialized chili, a new commercialized chili to add to the two that we have. One of the magic ingredients we have in our sweet and smokey chili is apple cider vinegar. It is incredible, what it can do for something.
Debbie Adler:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
I also notice, I'm looking at the list right now, but I'm a huge fan of sriracha sauce. That's one of the things you have on this list. I also know that you love making your own.
Debbie Adler:
Thank you for saying that, because that was the next thing out of my mouth. I highly, highly recommend that people take the time, and it's not hard, just take a half hour out of your day to make my sriracha sauce, because nothing ... I'm not bragging, I'm just trying to say that the ones in the store, they're going to have the salt and maybe the oil and maybe even sugar. This does not, mine does not, and it is so much better. I can't really do justice with words. You just have to taste it. I hope that people take the time to make it because it is so good.
People will say, "Oh, you have to bottle it up and sell it." Maybe I will one day, but right now it's in the book. People can make it on their own, and it is really good. It really adds a lot. It heightens the taste. If you want a little bit of a kick to what you're making, it is fantastic.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I know chapter three, you start out, chapter three is all about staples from scratch.
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Sriracha is one of the first staples from scratch that you recommend people make.
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
That really absolutely caught my eye. I'm just looking here. What about nutritional yeast? What's your opinion of nutritional yeast? Are you a fan of it? Do you use it in a lot of your stuff?
Debbie Adler:
I do. I do. I don't know what's bad about it. I don't know. I'm sure there's bad about everything, but it's something I really depend on. I do use it a lot. Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. What are one of your recipes that you like using nutritional yeast in?
Debbie Adler:
I have a spinach croquette where I have a breading. It's like a combination of corn meal and nutritional yeast. It comes out really crispy. I have some dressings. Anything where I want to add a little bit of a cheesy taste, it's going to be in there.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. I'm moving on now to nuts and seeds. You have your, mind your nuts and seeds. Of course, in your list here you have the omega-3 all stars. You have chia seeds, hemp seeds, and flax seed, that your son can now consume, I would imagine, a little bit?
Debbie Adler:
Yes, he can. Yes, he can. There's no limit to how much flax seed he could have now. It's a miracle.
Rip Esselstyn:
Very exciting. I noticed that the only ... Well, you have two nuts in here, but you have almonds and you have pistachios. Is there any reason why you don't have cashews or walnuts on this list?
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, I don't know why I left it out, but I do use all of them, what you just mentioned. I do use them. Even in the book, I have them, so yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Got it. Got it. Gather your grains, flours, and powders.
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
One of the things that, because I read all your descriptions for all of them, and one that really I found fascinating was buckwheat flour. In there, you talk about how it's neither a grain and it's not made of wheat, but it's actually really, it's a fruit. I'm like, "What?"
Debbie Adler:
It is a fruit. Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's wild.
Debbie Adler:
There are so many miscategorizations of things that we have grown up to think are one thing and they are another. Because when you're writing a book, you want to not make mistakes. I did my research into every grain I was using and sure enough, I was blown away too. It is a fruit. Buckwheat is technically a fruit. Why it's called buckwheat, I don't know, because people automatically think it's wheat, it's not, and so that makes it gluten free. It's also very healthy as you know, and I tend to tell people to use light buckwheat flour in my recipes because it's not as strong.
It's very mild. If you get the light, if you can't get the light, just buy it. Buy the groats, buckwheat groats, and just use a coffee grinder and make your own flour. That's how I do it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Do you do the same thing with oat? Because I love making my own oat flour.
Debbie Adler:
I do. I absolutely do. I make my own oat flour. Yeah, because it has to be ... I like it to be organic and gluten free. I don't have to be gluten free myself, but I just like it that way. I get the best oats there are on the market. You know we have to worry about the glyphosate. They found glyphosate in a lot of the oats products. I don't know if you know. Yeah, I'm sure you know everything. They have certain companies that have glyphosate free on the packaging. I only go to those companies because when you buy oat flour, you don't know their source.
I make sure that I get my oats, I know where it's from, I know it's clean, and then I make it myself in my coffee grinder. I highly recommend, I don't use it for coffee, I use it for my flour. I make my own flours.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I'd say every Sunday morning I make oat pancakes that are delicious. Do you use Bob's Red Mill and gluten-free, extra thick, or do you know what kind of oats do you use?
Debbie Adler:
Yes, I do use that, yeah. But there are other companies that have the branding about it being clean, that Bob's doesn't have. But yeah, I know I've used Bob's Red Mill, that's certainly a very good company. But there are other ones that I've researched that are clean, straight from a farm, where they watch it and they don't use the pesticides. Also, because usually oats are grown with wheat on the farm, if you have to worry about cross-contamination, if you have to worry about gluten, you can't buy regular oats, because the cross-contamination is going to be there.
Oats naturally are gluten free, but because it's grown with wheat, the wind blows and then all of a sudden the wheat gets on the ground. I make sure that I get it from the companies that don't do that, that grow them separately.
Rip Esselstyn:
You have three flours that are last in your list of gathering your grains, flours, and powders. They're sorghum, tapioca, and teff. Do you have a preference with those three or does each one serve a different purpose?
Debbie Adler:
Okay, each one is in my gluten free all-purpose flour mix at my bakery. That's what I tell people to put together for themselves if they want really good baked goods that are gluten-free. The recipe for my flour mix is in the front of the book, from scratch. The millet, the tapioca, the teff, sorghum, and quinoa flours that I mentioned are part of a mix that goes into the baked goods that I make at home and at the bakery, because I did a lot of research. The ones at the time when I was starting out with the bakery, the gluten free flours were terrible.
They were grainy and they were all made of rice. That's not the best thing to have all the time, is rice, rice, rice. I decided I wanted to have a very healthy, high protein, gluten-free flour that tasted really, really good. But was smooth, that didn't have that grittiness that a lot of gluten-free flours have. That's what I came up with. The sorghum, the quinoa, the teff, the millet, and the tapioca. You need a starch, in gluten-free flours, you need a starch. That's why I came up with the tapioca.
Rip Esselstyn:
If I wanted to make a waffle or pancake using one of these gluten free flours or mixes, what would you recommend I use on Sunday mornings?
Debbie Adler:
Well, you would have to put it all together.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, I do know that. I do know that. Yeah.
Debbie Adler:
I mean, in the proportion that I tell you, because if you do more than one than other, it may not taste as good. Let's take the quinoa for example. Let's say you just have the quinoa flour on hand and you, "Oh, I'm just going to do the ... " It's not going to taste good because quinoa flour by itself is not going to taste good. Because it's a very strong flour, so you're going to have to mix it in proportion to the sorghum, to the millet, to the ... It's very specific. Baking is a science where cooking is not so much. Cooking is more, "Oh, we could be creative here and there."
But baking is a science, and believe me, I'm not the most scientific person, but believe me, I've made so many mistakes that I realize that you do have to do it scientifically and measure. I would say, look at the recipe for the Sweet Debbie's Organic flour mix. Just have it in your freezer. Do it once. I know it's a pain in the neck, but do it once and keep it in your freezer and then use that for your ... and then add oats, and then do it for your pancakes. It'll be really good. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Got it. Got it. All right, moving on to sweeteners, because if you had your own bakery, I read that you basically live for sweets or maybe at some point in your life you did.
Debbie Adler:
I know, I still do.
Rip Esselstyn:
It sounds like your sweetener of choice is coconut nectar.
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is that right?
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Why that as opposed to something else?
Debbie Adler:
I've been through them all. I started my bakery with xylitol at that time, back in 2006. It was the only thing that I could find that wasn't sucralose on the shelves. I used that and it was easy because it was one to one ratio to sugar. That was a digestive nightmare. It's very hard on your system. It's one of those sugar alcohols. I moved on to stevia, and stevia, also people didn't like stevia. They just have a problem with stevia, and I didn't want people complaining. I started to look into maple syrup, but maple syrup is a high glycemic sweetener. It's healthier than sugar, but it's also high glycemic.
You're going to get a high spike in your blood sugar if you have maple syrup. I found out about coconut nectar. Coconut nectar is extracted from the coconut tree and at low temperatures, so it's low glycemic and it maintains the enzymes, minerals, and vitamins that it naturally contains because it's extracted at low temperatures, and it's delicious. That was it. It was just because it was delicious and had those qualities, and I could use it like maple syrup.
Rip Esselstyn:
Interesting. Is it pricey?
Debbie Adler:
It is, it is a little pricey. It is more expensive than maple syrup, but I think it's worth it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right. What's your opinion? Because I know you have this down on your list and it's something that I become a big fan of, are dates, like medjool dates.
Debbie Adler:
Yes, yes. I do that too. I use those too. Yes, absolutely. I use those a lot. If I make a crust, if I make a granola bar, or in my other book I had a chocolate pudding in a granola crust. It's held together with the medjool dates. Yeah, so I do use medjool dates a lot too.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. We like the fact that with dates you're basically getting a whole food.
Debbie Adler:
Exactly.
Rip Esselstyn:
All the vitamins and the minerals and the fiber. You know the story there.
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Good. All right. Let's move on. Canned goods, you have a list there, but three that you really are a fan of are pumpkin puree, diced tomatoes, and chickpeas. Anything you want to add to that?
Debbie Adler:
Well, I think that people think of pumpkin as something to only have in October and November, but I think my point was you could have it all year round because it's on the shelves all year round now. I would take advantage of that because instead of oil I use pumpkin puree in a lot of my baked goods. I think it's good to always have it because there's so many different uses for it. In addition to pumpkin pie, you can use it as a substitute if you want to make a muffin just instead of oil, just put in a third of a cup of pumpkin puree. It doesn't taste like pumpkin. Pumpkin really doesn't have taste unless you add a cinnamon to it or a pumpkin pie spice to it. It's a very good all year round thing to have.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, you say it adds nice moisture and bulk, is it something that I could add to my pancakes on Sunday morning?
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, absolutely add it to your pancake. Absolutely, but what do you use now to add to your pancakes?
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, I use a combination of apple sauce and mushed banana.
Debbie Adler:
Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, that's good too. But if you don't want it to taste like banana, let's say, let's say you get tired of that, use the pumpkin puree.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Good. Well, this Sunday it's going to be pumpkin puree, thanks to Debbie. Let's talk some tools and then finally people will get into some of your incredible recipes. The three things that you recommend everybody must have, and correct me if I'm wrong here, are the right size baking tins, a food processor, and a high speed blender.
Debbie Adler:
Absolutely. It kills me when people say ... Let's say I have a recipe and they only have to use a food processor, and they yell at me. I don't how much hate mail you get. It's so funny. I don't get a lot, but you know what? When people are angry at you, you remember it. I get people yelling at me in capital letters, "Well, what if I don't have a food processor?" It's like, "Oh, my God, it's just a food processor. It's like a $20. I don't know what ... I even forgot what I spent but I think it's ... Okay, this is how I think of it, because this is very important, because I know people do have budgets and, of course, I honor that.
But if you are committed to this lifestyle, there are certain things you have to have to be able to enjoy the food. If you just spend whatever it is for the food processor, you don't have to have the vitamins. Okay, that's very expensive. But get a good blender to make a smoothie. It's a good investment. You know why? Because it's less than a healthcare bill. If you go to the doctor once, you're going to spend more money on being sick than all these things, these food processors and these things in the kitchen combined. If you invest in your health, that's going to be less money than the visit to the doctor when you get sick because you're not eating this way.
That's what I tell people, because they don't think of it that way. They just see the dollar sign, "Oh, my god, I can't spend $400 on a blender." You go to the doctor, it's going to be way more than that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. Good point. Then, you have a very, very extensive list of different tools and knives and slicers that you recommend people have. I think it's a really helpful section. All right, I want to dive into the recipes, and this is the game that I'd like for you to play with me. All right. You've broken this up into, I think it's, let me just see, 10 different sections, the recipes. I am going to throw out one, maybe two of the recipes and I'd love for you to talk a little bit about them. These are just ones that, in looking at the six or seven or eight that you have in each section, intrigued me and I think that our audience would love a little bit more elaboration on.
Debbie Adler:
Okay.
Rip Esselstyn:
Sound good?
Debbie Adler:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. We'll start with staples from scratch. I love this section where you've got, make your own almond milk and vegetable stock. Obviously, we've already talked about the sriracha sauce, but one of the things that really caught my attention here was your feta cheese. I think that that's one thing that a lot of people miss, is that feta cheese on top of salads or different dishes. How do you do a feta cheese that looks, and I would imagine, tastes so incredible?
Debbie Adler:
I take firm tofu and I just let it soak in a combination of apple cider vinegar, oregano, black pepper, and thyme, I think it is, whatever the other ... It's an herb, I forgot what the other one was. You let it soak overnight or a few hours, let it seep into the tofu and then you cut it up, or you can cut it up first and then soak it so it really gets in there, and it's very easy. You just dump out the liquid and you crumble up the tofu and you have a very zesty tasting feta cheese. It's so satisfying.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. No, the only spices I see in here, you have dried to oregano, dried thyme, and then some freshly ground pepper. Then, of course, we have to have our apple cider vinegar and our freshly squeezed lemon juice in there.
Debbie Adler:
Yes. Right. That was the other one.
Rip Esselstyn:
What a great combination. Tell me this, so where did you learn to cook and become a chef? Is it self-taught? Did you go to school?
Debbie Adler:
Yeah. It's self-taught. It's definitely self-taught. Yeah. It is just by doing and doing and doing, and learning just by your mistakes and figuring it out and figuring it out what tastes good and what doesn't taste good. It takes a lot of work. It's trial and error, basically.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. I say this in the nicest way, so do not take this the wrong way, are you a control freak?
Debbie Adler:
In terms of what?
Rip Esselstyn:
Doing everything yourself. The reason why I say that is because I looked at this book and you self-published. You wrote it, You did the recipes. You also took all the photographs. I'm like, "Oh, my gosh." I haven't seen something that's been completely done from top to bottom, especially a cookbook in forever. That's why I asked the question if you are a control freak.
Debbie Adler:
Oh, yeah, that's a very good point. You're right. You're right. Okay. Yeah, it probably does look like I'm a control freak because of that. You're right. It does look like, this is by Debbie Adler, this is by Debbie Adler, this is by Debbie Adler. I wasn't like that before. I did two other books and I was not like that. I did farm it out. I did have a photographer, I had a food stylist, I had a publisher, whatever else I had. But for this one, this was written during the pandemic. I was a little bit more at home and I had time to learn other skills.
I always wanted to learn photography. As you know, photography is very expensive. Even though I had a publisher, I had to pay for my own photography. It was a freaking fortune.
Rip Esselstyn:
As much as a food processor.
Debbie Adler:
Way more than a food processor. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, I'm well aware. I'm well aware.
Debbie Adler:
It's crazy, and they deserve it. I'm not saying they don't deserve it, but come on. I decided that I was going to learn food photography so that I could take my own pictures. Why not? This is what I do for a living. I was going to learn it. I took the summer of 2020 to learn how to do food photography. Now, I feel a little bit more in control, if you want to use that word, controlling or have control over my product, because then I don't have to hire somebody for tens of thousands of dollars. I could do it myself.
Rip Esselstyn:
Absolutely. I was just amazed, these photographs looked like they're done by an absolute pro.
Debbie Adler:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
You did a phenomenal job with all these photos, really nicely done. All right, let's move on to breakfast that stack up. Okay. Obviously, we've already talked about your avocado toast with veg. Then, for people that are able to watch on YouTube, you can see I'm holding up a photo of it right now from the book, and it literally looks like an egg with the hard boiled, the yolk and everything. I can smell it through the pages.
Debbie Adler:
Right, exactly.
Rip Esselstyn:
But the one that I would love for you to talk about, and it really caught my attention, because as we've already been talking about, you know I'm a huge fan of pancakes. That is your matchacado soufflé pancakes, that don't even have any, what is it? Eggs in them, that makes them rise or whatever.
Debbie Adler:
Well, the apple cider vinegar makes them rise.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
Debbie Adler:
Yeah. It's matchacado, so matcha being matcha tea, matcha green tea, and the cado is the avocado, and the soufflé is the apple cider vinegar, because that makes them rise. That makes them fluffy. It makes them fluffy. The matcha is because I love matcha. Every morning I have my matcha latte. I'm a big fan. I decided, "Well, to do something with matcha other than have it in my latte, I'm going to see if it goes well in pancakes, because it's a powder, so we add the powder." It was delicious. It was so fun.
It has that little rustic matcha green tea taste and the avocado makes them really soft. The apple cider vinegar makes them fluffy. I thought, "Oh, my God, this is a revelation." I was very excited about that one.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, and you use a combination of almond and light buckwheat flour in there as well.
Debbie Adler:
Yes, that's right. Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
I love the pantone of them, that light green. It's like green eggs without ham, or I should say, yeah, something like that. Okay, let's move over. Let's move on to bowls that bowl you over.
Debbie Adler:
Okay.
Rip Esselstyn:
You didn't know you were going to get quizzed so hard on your book, did you?
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, I wrote it in 2020. Okay, let's see how much I remember.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, that's okay. I'm happy to help you out here and we're not going to hold anything against you here. I loved all these bowls and these soup ideas and the minestrones. The one that I was like, "Oh, I want to have that tonight," is the fasolada, it's a white bean soup.
Debbie Adler:
Oh my God, Rip. It's so funny you said that. I made that last night. My husband was over the moon excited. It was delicious. Yeah, I made that last night, so funny you picked that out of all the soups.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Debbie Adler:
It's very easy. White beans are very highly nutritious. As a matter of fact, the ancient Greek, it's a Greek soup, fasolada is a Greek soup. The ancient Greeks thought that white beans were the best thing you could eat, so it became their staple. White bean soup became, fasolada became their staple. It is so easy to make, and it is so filling because it has the sweet potatoes and the white beans and the celery, and it has a little bit of miso for saltiness. When you cook it for the 20 minutes, the sweet potato adds sweetness to it. You don't even have to add any, whatever, coconut nectar, whatever.
The sweetness comes from the sweet potato. Then, you take two cups out, once it's been cooking for 20 minutes, you take two cups out, you blend them in your expensive blender and you put it back into the soup, and it has a creaminess, and it becomes thicker because you do that. Delicious, and it's like a meal.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I'm glad I picked that one and that you made it last night.
Debbie Adler:
I know.
Rip Esselstyn:
How fortuitous for both of us.
Debbie Adler:
It is fortuitous.
Rip Esselstyn:
All right. Then, you have this European cabbage soup and a creamy potato and mushroom. All right. I'm moving on now to this next section. It's called Lettuce Build a Salad. Lettuce is spelled like L-E-T-T-U-C-E. Very, very smart on your part. I have not always loved salads, but I'm getting to the point now where I absolutely adore salads. I become a huge fan. Last night, for example, I made a huge salad using two of your favorite ingredients, which again, this is funny how we're connecting like this, arugula and kale.
It was the dinosaur kale. The salad that I'd love for you to talk about right now that uses both those is your Moroccan sweet potato salad, if you can remember that one. I can certainly tee you up.
Debbie Adler:
Yeah. I think that has the pomegranate seeds on top too.
Rip Esselstyn:
Absolutely does. Yes, yes.
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, it's just one of those salads that has a lot of chunkiness to it. It has the pomegranate seeds for little sweetness. It has a nice vinaigrette, very simple vinaigrette on top. You can put it together and then have it in the fridge for a week. You can eat it all week. Because the arugula and the kale are so sturdy, you could count on it, even with dressing on it, to still not wilt for the entire five days. If you just want to grab salad and go to work, you have it. I like having really interesting toppings in my salad. One of those I happen to like are sweet potatoes, chunks of sweet potatoes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I love that combination of the arugula and that dinosaur kale, the sweet potato, the pomegranate. Then, you also have some nice thinly sliced purple onion in there too, that just comes in just when you need it. It looks amazing. Everybody that's watching at home, I do want to show the photo of the fasolada, the white bean soup that we talked about just a second ago. Can you see that, Debbie?
Debbie Adler:
Yes. Go a little higher.
Rip Esselstyn:
Higher? How's that?
Debbie Adler:
Yup, there you go. Perfect. That's it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Good. It's like dreamy looking.
Debbie Adler:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's so dreamy. Okay, I'm moving on now. Choosing sides, you say how sometimes you like sides better than the mains, which I couldn't agree with you more. Let's talk a little bit about, and I was looking through this and I was like, "Oh, my gosh, you got the chorizo pilaf and you've got the pumpkin polenta." But you know what I zeroed in on, was the amaranth tabouli.
Debbie Adler:
Really?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. I haven't had tabouli in a long time and I really am just yearning, jonesing for that taste of a tabouli.
Debbie Adler:
Oh, I like that. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
You use amaranth?
Debbie Adler:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
The grain.
Debbie Adler:
I want to do something different because tabouli is tabouli, but I don't think I've ever seen amaranth tabouli. I like doing unique things and amaranth is a very ... First of all, a lot of people don't even know about it, that's the first thing. But the second thing is that it is a very underrated grain. They did an entire segment, like an hour, Dr. Sanjay Gupta did an entire hour on CNN on amaranth and talked about how amaranth can save the world from hunger, because that's how healthy it is. Anyway, I like to use it in people.
I want to introduce it to people because it is so nutritious and very delicious, and it's a teeny tiny grain with a big mighty lot of nutrition. I decided that since it was teeny tiny and tabouli would work well with it, I did the tabouli with the amaranth.
Rip Esselstyn:
Then, you recommend two Persian cucumbers. What is a Persian cucumber? How is it different?
Debbie Adler:
Okay. I do Persian cucumbers because they have no seeds. They're very long and they have no seeds.
Rip Esselstyn:
That means they're sterile?
Debbie Adler:
Never thought of it that way, but the seeds in the cucumbers bother me. I guess because, I don't know, I just like it to be just the cucumber. They're very thin and long and I just like them better.
Rip Esselstyn:
Hey, I could go there. I like Persian. That sounds good. All right, we're moving on now. Oh, and also there you've got a garlic spice lima bean hummus and a spinach croquettes, is that how you pronounce it?
Debbie Adler:
Croquette, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Croquettes, yeah. Let's talk about entrees into the world or entrees to the world. In this one, again, I had a really hard time, but there's two that I'd love for you to talk about. One is, and help me because I'm probably not going to pronounce it right, moussaka?
Debbie Adler:
Yeah. Moussaka. Yes. The moussaka is also a Greek dish. I do it with a mushroom béchamel, which is on top. The moussaka, I would say, is like a Greek lasagna. Instead of meat, which is the typical thing you would put in a moussaka, it's like they put in ground lamb, instead I use lentils. We layer it with eggplant and then we top it with a potato. It's a combination between a roasted potato and cauliflower. I steam that, make it into a mashed potato. Then, on top of the potato I have the mushroom béchamel, which is, it's the highlight of the dish.
If you just say béchamel to people, they just start to drool. A little higher. There you go. Yeah, that's the mushroom béchamel which you see on top. The mushroom béchamel is the mushrooms, it's coconut aminos, it's a little bit of flour. Then, you just stir it up, heat it up, and you just make a roux. Then, it thickens up because of the heat and a little bit of gluten-free flour. Then, you put in the mushrooms and it is absolutely out of this world. You could put it on anything. You could put it on sweet potatoes. Mushroom béchamel makes everything better, so I put it on the moussaka. People go crazy over it, as a matter of fact.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I can see why in more ways than one. When you said that this classic Greek dish is akin to a shepherd's pie, you had me. Shepherd's pie are one of my favorite things in the whole wide world. Then, the one thing where you almost lost me, but I was like, "You know what? I'm going to give it a go." Was the eggplant. I've never been a fan of the eggplant.
Debbie Adler:
You don't have to use it. You can use zucchini slices, if you like that better. You can use other things. You could use sweet potato as, like thinly sliced, as the layering. You don't have to use the eggplant.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, I want to start to like the eggplant, so I think I need to try it more.
Debbie Adler:
Okay.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I'd love for you to talk just a little bit about either the creamy tomato risotto or the roasted veggie paella. Either one of those to me sounds really phenomenal.
Debbie Adler:
Yeah. Well, risotto is obviously an Italian dish that is, I would have to say, labor intensive. I have to admit, because you're constantly adding in the veggie broth every half hour. You're not pouring all the cups in all at once. To get that creaminess with the arborio rice, you need to coax it out. Risotto is a very creamy ... Oh, there you go. This is, I would have to say, probably the most labor intensive, but it's totally worth it, because I love risotto and tomatoes are so delicious with it.
You're just stirring, stirring, stirring. It comes together, I'd say, within 40, 45 minutes. You have a really, really good risotto that's whole food plant based. No oil.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. All right, let's go on to, oh, the pastabilities.
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right. Nice little play on the word possibilities there with pastabilities. I've always been a huge fan of pasta. Love it. Love it. Love it. One of my favorite things is gnocchi. The sweet gnocchi florentine, here it is.
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
That just looks absolutely divine.
Debbie Adler:
Yes. I put a pesto sauce on it because I love pesto. I don't know. Some guys like marinara, I like pesto. The sweet gnocchi use a sweet potato with ... It's very easy. People get intimidated very quickly. All you do is, I think you boil the potato and roll it into little ropes and then just cut them into one inch little pieces. Then, you boil it. Then, it actually rises to the top when it's done. It tells you when it's done, when it rises to the top of your pot. You take it out and you put whatever sauce you want. I use a pesto. Very easy to make. Don't be intimidated.
A lot of people are intimidated by things, I'm just saying. It's still delicious. It's so delicious. I always forget to make more, because they're little tiny pieces that you can eat the whole thing in one surfing, it's just so good.
Rip Esselstyn:
As you say in your book, they're like billowy, pillowy little puffs, right? Or poofs, and they go poof. I'm amazed how much gnocchi I can eat in one sitting.
Debbie Adler:
Exactly.
Rip Esselstyn:
Always.
Debbie Adler:
Exactly. Yeah. Me too.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Okay, so the next section that I want to ask you a question from is basic kneads.
Debbie Adler:
Bread.
Rip Esselstyn:
You've got a cauliflower cross flat bread, a kalamata foccacia, rosemary flat breads. But what I want you to talk about, because I love, on the weekends, I love doing homemade burgers, plant-based burgers. You have yam buns in here-
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
... that just is like, "Oh, my gosh."
Debbie Adler:
I know.
Rip Esselstyn:
No yeast, just a few ingredients, and you say the result, it's tasty and chewy.
Debbie Adler:
So good. It's going to be great on your burger, with your burgers.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Here's the photo.
Debbie Adler:
Yes. That's a perfect use, to put your burger in between that. Oh, that's making me hungry, just thinking about that. Yes. Obviously, it's a little sweet because it has the sweet potato or yam, whatever you use, it doesn't matter. Perfect.
Rip Esselstyn:
How long does it take to make these? Are we talking ... Yeah, about 50 minutes, I think it says.
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, it's not long. You could freeze them. If you make two batches, you freeze them. You just toast them when you need them so you have it, and slice them in half. You could use it as your bread for whatever you want to put in the middle.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. All right, we're going to do the yam buns. Spread the love is the next section.
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
You've got all kinds of great hummuses and nachos. But the thing that I want to, that I zeroed in on, because it also was actually one of my favorite movies and my kids' favorite movie is Ratatouille, and Sean loved it.
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Was ratatouille considered, is it actually a dip? I don't think I've ever made ratatouille before.
Debbie Adler:
Oh, yes, it's a dip. It is.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay, so here's the photo, gang, right here.
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, of course, you could just put it on a salad or on a sandwich as a condiment, but it's considered a dip and a french dip, and it has all the zucchinis and the eggplant and the tomato, and it just comes together beautifully. When you let it sit in that pot together, they co-mingle and get cozy and it's really delicious.
Rip Esselstyn:
They're doing a lot of spooning together, all of those-
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, exactly.
Rip Esselstyn:
... all of those veggies.
Debbie Adler:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I think between the moussaka and the ratatouille, I might be able to kick my aversion to eggplant.
Debbie Adler:
Oh, okay. It's not the worst thing in the world, not to eat eggplant. But yeah, if you want to do that, that would be very interesting if you let me know, if you could stand it in the moussaka or tolerate it in the ratatouille.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes, yes. All right, so closing out your wonderful book, we have creme de la crumbs.
Debbie Adler:
Right.
Rip Esselstyn:
Obviously, knowing your love for sweets, your sweet tooth and how it rules you, you have, one, two, you have about five recipes here. From pistachio chip cookies, to chocolate orange biscotti, caramelized berry galettes, is that what it is?
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, because they're small. A galette is usually very big. Yeah. I make them little tiny ones, so they're little lettes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Then, you have luxurious granola bars. But the one that I want to talk about, because I could literally live in a pool of chocolate, is your chocolate fudge halva brownies. Here they are.
Debbie Adler:
Oh, my God, yes. You picked a good one. Yes. Those are amazing.
Rip Esselstyn:
You say that you've got some tahini in there, sesame seeds. Oh, my gosh. Cacao, coconut nectar.
Debbie Adler:
Yeah. They're very fudgy, and the tahini makes ... I don't know if you've ever had halva. Have you ever had halva?
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, yeah.
Debbie Adler:
Okay. I grew up loving halva and so the thought of putting it in a brownie just got me very excited. That's why I decided I'm going to do it for this book. The tahini has a little bit of that halva flavor, which takes it over the edge. It's just so good, and it's fudgy. It's everything you want a brownie to be.
Rip Esselstyn:
How much of a labor of love was this book for you?
Debbie Adler:
It was very, very laborious, because I knew I was going to do it myself. I just want to do an experiment. Like I said, it was during the pandemic and it was just an experiment to see if I could self-publish. It took me a very long time, because as I said, I started in March of 2020 and we're already here in October, 2022, and it's just coming out now. Obviously, I spent a lot of time on it. Doing every aspect of it was like, I enjoyed it. I didn't not like it because I enjoyed learning all aspects of the photography and learning the graphic design. I did the graphic design.
I had to learn Adobe and design to do that and learn how to self-publish. Every aspect of it, I took my time to learn it. For me, learning, if I'm always learning, I'm happy. If I feel like I'm not learning, I feel stagnant and then I'm unhappy. Just learning each aspect of it and then finally seeing it on Amazon was like, "Wow, I can't believe I did that." Because I didn't think I could. I didn't know anything, because I always had a publisher. They always did that. All I did was do the recipes. That was all I did. But now, I did everything.I was like, "Okay." Yeah, it was hard work and maybe it doesn't look as good as if a publisher did it, but I think that the entire process was so worth it to know that I could do the photography, I could do the graphic design, and whatever else I did. Get it onto Amazon, which is also a learning curve. It was just a good endeavor and a good learning experience.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Listen, I love everything you just said there. I love that philosophy about life. As long as you're learning and you're putting yourself out there, who cares if you'd fall and you skin your knee, and even if you fail, at least you're out there swinging away and you're trying. Look what you've been able to create. Yeah, it maybe have taken you two years, but wow, you got this fantastic masterpiece and it just launched what, October 5th?
Debbie Adler:
Well, I had to do that for Amazon reasons, but the official date was October 18th. That's when the Kindle was published. The hard cover was a different story because Amazon makes you publish early. They have to approve it. I didn't want to have them approve it on October 18th. If there was a problem, I would've ... There wasn't a problem, so I did it early for the hard cover, just in case, because they make you go straight to publishing. They don't give you that period. They do that for the Kindle. They give you a period of, they do pre-sales for Kindle. They don't do pre-sales, pre-orders for hard cover. I had to launch that a little bit early, but October 18th was my chosen date.
Rip Esselstyn:
What did you do to celebrate the finished product here? Anything?
Debbie Adler:
Oh, my God.
Rip Esselstyn:
Did somebody cook for you?
Debbie Adler:
That is such a good question because I never celebrate. That is such a good philosophical and maybe a psychological question about celebrating.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's a win. It's a great win.
Debbie Adler:
Thank you. Yeah. No, I didn't, because I never think it's good enough. Maybe that's something that I have to work on. Yeah, I should have. I didn't, but yeah, you're absolutely right. I should have celebrated. I didn't.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, you need to take Sean and your husband and you guys need to go to Crossroads or something and celebrate.
Debbie Adler:
I love Crossroads. Yeah, I love Crossroads. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, I should, absolutely.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, listen, I know the process as well. I haven't done self-publish, but in writing now four books, you're never done, but at some point you just have to finish, right?
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, that's what I did eventually. I just said, "All right, it is what it is. I'm getting it out there and let it be." Absolutely. I knew that after two years I said, "Okay, you're done. You cannot work on this any longer." Because you keep going through it and you're trying to find a little mistake and it's like, "Okay."
Rip Esselstyn:
Listen, you have done an absolute gorgeous job on this. I highly recommend it. The fact that it's salt, oil, sugar free for those that want it, it's also gluten free. As you said, you won't know the difference, but it's just gluten free, which is a nice thing for those that are sensitive to gluten. You have such an incredible variety of recipes in here. Do you know, because I have not counted them up, how many recipes are there?
Debbie Adler:
I think it's about 60. Yeah, about something like that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, and that's what I love about it. It's like each section, it's very palatable. Each section has five to eight recipes. It doesn't have like 20, and you're like going, "Whoa." It's not overwhelming by any stretch. Where can people go to find and learn more about you, Debbie?
Debbie Adler:
They could go to www.debbieadler.tv and they could, if you opt in, I can give you, you get 18 free recipes just by doing that. If you just want to get your feet wet and see what I do, 18 free recipes if you opt in. I'm on Facebook at Sweet Debbie Adler. I'm on Instagram at plantbased.debbie.adler. That's it. Yeah, I think those are all the platforms I have right now.
Rip Esselstyn:
Fantastic. Well, we'll be sure to post all those in the show notes-
Debbie Adler:
Thank you, Thank you so much
Rip Esselstyn:
... for the episode, for people that want it. Yeah, absolutely.
Debbie Adler:
I appreciate it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, Debbie, this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me on the PlantStrong podcast and all the wonderful work you're doing. Congratulations on this huge win that you've gotten out into the whole food plant-based world. It is a masterpiece and I insist that you celebrate.
Debbie Adler:
Oh, thank you so much for having me, Rip. Really, this was such an honor and a pleasure talking to you, and I'm glad we both like dinosaur kale and arugula.
Rip Esselstyn:
Me too.
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, so thank you so much. It was really fun talking to you.
Rip Esselstyn:
You too. Will you give me a little fist bump and plantstrong?
Debbie Adler:
Yeah, sure. There you go.
Rip Esselstyn:
Boom, plantstrong. Debbie's book, The Mediterranean Plate, is now out, and we'll be sure to put a link in the show notes for you. As you heard, this project was a one-woman show, and it's obvious that she poured her heart, soul, and taste buds into this project. What started as a mission to help her son has turned into a career of helping thousands regain their health and get creative and confident in the kitchen. Thanks so much for listening today and always keep it plantstrong. See you next time.
The PlantStrong podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin, and Wade Clark. This season is dedicated to all of those courageous truth seekers who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth. Most notably my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr., and Anne Crile Esselstyn. Thanks for listening.
