#100: Darin Olien - The Indiana Jones, Dan Buettner, Laird Hamilton and Sherlock Holmes of Superfoods.
Darin Olien, co-host of “Down to Earth” with Zac Efron
Darin Olien is the "Superman of Superfoods" and the "Indiana Jones of the Best Ingredients" on the planet. For over 20 years, he has literally roamed the world - and you already know this if you watched Season One of his Netflix docu-series with Zac Efron, “Down to Earth,” where they traveled the planet to explore the secrets of good health, longevity, and sustainability.
Olien is also the author of the NY Times best-selling book, “SuperLife: The five fixes that will keep you healthy, fit and eternally awesome.”
I was stunned to learn just how much we have in common - we’re both from the Midwest, we both are sons of Fathers who grew up around farming and agriculture, we were both collegiate athletes, we’re both NY Times best-selling authors on the subject of health, and today we both spend our days sourcing the best ingredients to bring you healthy, sustainable nutrition in the plantstrong foods we create.
As you’ll hear today, Darin speaks THE TRUTH, but in a way that is filled with purpose and compassion. He discusses:
How he and Zac propelled the success of "Down to Earth" without being too preachy and off-putting
How he approaches the subject of climate change, nutrition, and environmental issues, especially with those who may think differently than he does
His favorite superfoods on the planet
The life-changing impact of his Father's death
The abundance and life-giving experience of eating plants
His perspective on life, particularly after the tragedy of losing his home
A touch on his fatal conveniences series
This is a man who, through self-motivation and determination, has become a force in the health and nutrition industry. He is living proof that one person can make a global impact.
About Darin Olien
Darin Olien is co-host with Zac Efron on the Emmy™ nominated, #1 Netflix docu-series “Down to Earth with Zac Efron” and host of “The Darin Olien Show” a widely popular podcast curiously exploring people, solutions, and health as well as “Fatal Conveniences™” a segment of the show uncovering modern-day flaws and challenges that may be undermining our health and our environment.
Darin is also a highly recognized exotic superfood hunter, supplement formulator, and author of the New York Times bestseller, “SuperLife: The five fixes that will keep you healthy, fit, and eternally awesome.”
He has traveled the planet discovering new and underutilized exotic foods and medicinal plants. In early 2020 Darin launched 121 Tribe, a health APP created to help people live an optimal and sustainable life. Darin is the formulator of the whole-food supplement, “Shakeology”, as well as the plant-based, “Ultimate Reset” 21-day detoxification program. Darin is one of the founders of Barukas™, a new super nut from the Savannah “Cerrado” of Brazil. Through sustainable business practices, the company is committed to supporting this important biome by planting 20 million Baruzeita trees. In addition, Darin is a partner and advisor to several global environmental and health companies. To learn more about Darin, check out his website and the 121 Tribe program or follow him on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.
IG: @darinolien
FB: @DarinOlienOfficial
Twitter: @darinolien
Episode Resources
Darin Olien Website and Resources
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Full Transcript
Darin Olien:
The point is that we're treating our land horribly. We're polluting it. We're killing all of these animals. We're treating them in a genocidal, horrific way that we don't want to see, we don't want to feel, we don't want to ... And you go down the list of every water, power, food, shelter, sovereignty. You go down the list of that stuff and we have got into this you're either hugging a tree or you have a gun and you're going to protect those two ideologies. When in fact, it's common frickin' sense, man.
Rip Esselstyn:
Season three of the Plant-Strong Podcast explores those Galileo moments where you seek to understand the real truth around your health and dare to see the world through a different lens. This season, we honor those courageous seekers who are paving the way for you and me. So grab your telescope, point it towards your future, and let's get Plant-Strong together.
Rip Esselstyn:
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Rip Esselstyn:
Exciting news. We're bringing it back so more of you can take advantage. Simply visit mealplanner.plantstrong.com today and enter the code STARTFRESH to redeem your two-week trial. Check out the database filled with hundreds of recipes, see instructional cooking videos, make and save personal menus, and shop using our adaptive grocery list. You can even load and save your own recipes so this meal planner becomes your wing man or wing woman in the kitchen, saving you loads of time and ensuring you use up all those vegetables. Again, free trial for the first time, and for a limited time. Go to the show notes or visit mealplanner.plantstrong.com and enter the code STARTFRESH.
Rip Esselstyn:
I'm Rip Esselstyn, and I want to welcome you to another week and another episode of the Plant-Strong Podcast. Today, I am so, so, so, so stoked for you to meet today's guest, the superman of superfoods, the Indiana Jones of sourcing the best ingredients on the planet. And I'm embarrassed to say that I did not know Darin Olien until a few months ago, and now I cannot get enough of this guy. He has been an exotic superfoods hunter for decades, and he's also author of The New York Times Bestselling book SuperLife: The 5 Fixes That Will Keep You Healthy, Fit, and Eternally Awesome.
Rip Esselstyn:
I was stunned to learn just how much the two of us have in common. We're both from the Midwest. Darin is from Minnesota, I'm from Ohio. We both are sons of fathers who grew up around farming and agriculture. We were both collegiate athletes. He was a football player, I was a swimmer. We're both New York Times Bestselling authors on the subject of health. And today, we both spend our days sourcing the best ingredients to bring you healthy, sustainable nutrition in the plant-strong foods that we create.
Rip Esselstyn:
Darin has literally been all over the world, and you already know this if you've watched his Netflix docuseries with Zac Efron called Down to Earth. Not surprisingly, it was just nominated for an Emmy. Zac and Darin travel the planet to explore the secrets of good health, longevity, and sustainability. It is a gorgeous series and I highly, highly recommend it. As you'll hear today, Darin speaks the truth but in a way that is filled with purpose and compassion, and there's no denying it. I loved this chat and I know you will too. So please welcome to the Plant-Strong Podcast Darin Olien.
Rip Esselstyn:
Welcome to the Plant-Strong Podcast. This is season three of the podcast, and we really are kind of diving into people's Galileo's moments, like when they looked through that telescope and they saw the truth in their lives that really kind of altered their trajectory. I know you grew up in Minnesota and your dad taught ag business, which is kind of wild. But I'd love to hear a little bit about your journey and how you got to where you are today, because you are truly ... you're considered a guru of healthy eating and this seeker of the greatest superfoods on the planet. In doing my research, to me, you're part Indiana Jones, Laird Hamilton, Dan Buettner, and Sherlock Holmes. The perfect mix.
Darin Olien:
It's funny. Well, birds of a feather flock together. I just talked to Dan last week, and I've been friends with Laird and trained with him for the last 15 years.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh wow. Wow.
Darin Olien:
Yeah, so from that perspective, yeah, that's in good company for sure.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, you and Laird both just look like beasts.
Darin Olien:
Plant strong, buddy. You got to be plant strong, for sure.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is Laird plant strong?
Darin Olien:
He isn't. I think now his Laird Superfood stuff is all vegan, though. He still holds whatever he believes is true for him. There are moments ... and it's like, I love it, because listen, whether he's going to admit this or not, there was one point where I think he told some friends of mine early on when we started training ... because we train pretty hard. And I think ... and he can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is ... I think he said he doesn't really believe that I don't actually eat something that is an animal or an egg or cheese, and that was maybe a decade and a half ago. Because listen, I think anyone, when you've come into that adopted culture of this protein mythology, you really think that there's no way you can have muscle and recover and be an athlete without animal-based proteins.
Darin Olien:
I mean, I'm speaking to the choir, but as we're all in our individual lane ... I'm grew up eating meat and everything else in Minnesota, and then once you start venturing off, you realize, "Oh, there's not a lot of people like me," especially when I started maybe 15, 17 years ago. But for me, I've never was affected by someone else's point of view because the internal experience and information and then knowledge and application ... it just spoke so loudly biologically, mentally, chemically, you name it, that I'm like ... And it's funny. Call it a quantum reality, but the moment you let that go and care about someone else's point of view about you, they kind of stop. So I don't even get it. More often, I'm sure you get this, you're with people that maybe eat regular and they just go, "Hey, can I just have what he's having? Can you order for me?" You know what I mean? That happens more than not.
Darin Olien:
And by the way ... and then I'll shut up for a second ... it happened on Down to Earth. I think the beautiful thing is, I'm an anomaly in that whole production. But there was enough faith and trust and everything, and luckily, my relationship with Zac was culminated before all of this, so that bridge brought me into this world. Whereas that polarity actually created the best show because that polarity was able to ... We were able to actually propel the show in a better way without it being preaching, preaching, preaching, hammer, hammer, hammer. And this time when we were filming season two in Australia, on their own, the head of production followed by the rest of our 20 crew said, "Hey, you know what?" Just randomly. We're all in this van flying around somewhere, and he was like, "Hey Darin, I'm going to do one day without meat." I was like, "Oh, really? Right on. That's great. What day?" And he's like, "This day." I'm like, "Okay," and then it was a domino effect and then everyone else did that, and we did that for the rest of the shoot, for three months.
Rip Esselstyn:
So where's Zac on the plant-strong spectrum?
Darin Olien:
Listen, I think he gets ... I don't want to get him in trouble, but I think he gets swayed. But I know that he goes back and forth. I know that he's a little bit of a victim of the show because we're in the middle of eating some of the greatest foods, and then all of a sudden, they throw him something and they already know ahead of time that I'm not even consuming it, so then he indulges. But listen, just recently I got a text from him saying, "Hey man, I've been X amount of months and I'm feeling the best," and blah, blah, blah. And so yeah, he's gone back and forth, but he knows.
Darin Olien:
And it did happen. I will say this. This absolutely happened. We would get our crew, and to go out wherever locations were around the entire country, and we had people go out and finding vegan options wherever we were, and that was sometimes very difficult. And the head of security, which was Zac's guy, and Zac, ended up saying, "Just double whatever Darin's getting," and that happened for the rest of the shoot.
Darin Olien:
So that's the power, man. I mean, I think especially when you're like yourself, you're strong, you're an athlete, and you're vibrant and you're living a certain way, and you're aware of food so you're not just grabbing crap that happens to be vegan, there is a different vibe. And I also, dude ... I just chose not to have judgment. I am not the guy to jump up and say everyone has to be. I just go ... I have my-
Rip Esselstyn:
That doesn't work. That doesn't work.
Darin Olien:
It doesn't work. I have my point of view. If you want to ask me a question, I'll tell you. But if you're next to me, zero judgment, whatever you're eating.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, I think it was in episode one in Iceland where you guys went to that restaurant, Mint, and you had dung-smoked carrots, I think it was, and the looks on your faces when he said dung-smoked. But that's a thing. And then you had reindeer tartare. You didn't partake, but-
Darin Olien:
Man, listen. This is an important thing. Is that a perfect solution? There's still death of an animal. It's an imperfect solution. But this guy, the chef at Mint, he hunted, he gathered, he used every aspect of that animal, and he did it sacredly, for whatever that means to him. And so if you proliferate that out in a world that the meatonomics of that will naturally drive meat up and it would be more expensive, cut out all these subsidies, factory farming would go away. There's a way to do that. You and I ... and I think I'm getting the vibe that there's an impractical solution to ... It's not a light switch and the world is vegan. There is ways that we need to approach better systems and approaches to dealing with this thing. But regenerative ag, different aspects of that, care of the land, all of that stuff has a place in imperfectly moving in a direction that lowers the amount of meat consumption in the world and has better treatment of the life cycle of animals.
Darin Olien:
That stuff to me ... Season two, I had to witness some stuff and it wasn't fun. I can't reveal it, but I had to make a choice. I'm sitting here, I want to leave, I'm witnessing something that I have to take a position on, and I think the position is a better position in terms of moving us forward. So anyway, I don't mean to be covert, but it's kind of in this range of it isn't perfect. All these systems are, in a sense, broken. But I really would love in our lifetime for factory farming to change and go away, and the treatment of animals, obviously.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. No, it has to.
Rip Esselstyn:
It absolutely has to. Do you know who Gene Baur is?
Darin Olien:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
With Farm Sanctuary? Yeah, I had him on the podcast the other day and we were talking about how some of the latest data and studies actually show that animal agriculture is now responsible for 82% of global greenhouse gas emissions. In the past, we thought it was 15, maybe as high as 51%, but 82. And this is some pretty reputable authorities and organizations that have brought this to our attention, so you're absolutely right. Yeah.
Darin Olien:
Listen, it's funny because I think some of this also ... I mean, this is all Pandora's boxes and we're going to get off in maybe other areas. But for me, I kind of shy away from the climate change ideas and go into it in a different direction, because I want to get granular with it. Because now, even though it's that term, those two words put together, "climate change," it's now more of a religious term. You either buy that we're doing it or you don't, and now you're going to argue philosophically and 90% of guys here and these guys don't and all that.
Darin Olien:
You guys miss the frickin' point. The point is that we're treating our land horribly. We're polluting it. We're killing all of these animals. We're treating them in a genocidal, horrific way that we don't want to see, we don't want to feel, we don't want to ... And you go down the list of every water, power, food, shelter, sovereignty. You go down the list of that stuff and we have got into this you're either hugging a tree or you have a gun and you're going to protect those two ideologies. When in fact, it's common frickin' sense, man. This stuff is common sense. Do we need to treat animals this way?
Darin Olien:
And then from all of the work that your dad and all of the colleagues of that generation have painstakingly laid out for years of, like, "We don't need that for health." And so then you look at all of these systems that are just inherently causing a lot of problems in so many different ways. So although I agree that human interaction is causing a ridiculous amount of climate adjusting and change and all of that stuff, but it's also like I want to get it down into ... If I were to go to a red state in the South and if I were to approach that conversation saying, "Dude, you should stop all eating meat and you should believe in climate change, because this meat that you're buying is creating CO2," you know what he's going to do to me?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Darin Olien:
"Get the hell off of my land, you crazy kook." But if I say, "Listen, if I could show you ways to create all the food that you need for your family, if I could show you clean ways to create power that create sovereignty for you and detaches you from this monopoly grid, if I could teach you how to harvest, recycle, and utilize water effectively and efficiently, if I could show you how to detoxify some of the things in your homes and stuff like that and give you all of your independent, inalienable, sovereign rights back by that so that you could be in power of everything you care about ... your land, your water, your power, your family, all of that stuff." I don't need to utter the word "climate change."
Darin Olien:
And look what happens as a result of that. That better affects the environment by the way of that guy, and his neighbor's going to do it, and his neighbor's going to do it. And then I could also go over here to the hippie hugging the trees, have the same solutions but just covered in a different conversation.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. It's about salesmanship.
Darin Olien:
So the point ... We're so funny as humans. We're just running around egotistically and systematically where egos want to keep in place, our system's hell bent on keeping in place. And-
Rip Esselstyn:
Got to let go.
Darin Olien:
Anyway.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, in your Costa Rica episode, I think you do a phenomenal job of showing that sustainable eco village in the middle of Costa Rica. Is that a buddy of yours?
Darin Olien:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stephen Brooks. I've known him for many, many years, and he was just the perfect amount of crazy to bring him in. He's dedicated his life, as you can tell. Every cell of his body has been dedicated to this whole way of life and food forests and creating that independent sovereignty.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. No, I mean, I loved that episode from showing where does chocolate come from ... Most people don't know it comes from that cacao and those cacao seeds, and the banana tree, and you got to chop it off at the head, otherwise it won't grow back, and the jackfruit. I mean, it's all really good. You and Zac, you guys have a great chemistry. The information that you're bringing to the audience ... It's adventure, it's travel. The cinematography is brilliant. Really, I mean, you guys, two thumbs up.
Darin Olien:
Yeah, thank you. It is a bit of magic that all came together with that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. How did you get hooked up with Zac?
Darin Olien:
Yeah, it's interesting. Rich Roll. I was on Rich's podcast ... I don't know, it was the second time, I think. And after it came out, he had an Olympian swimmer friend that was buddies with Zac, Conor Dwyer. So then from the episode ... Zac heard the episode and he reached out to Conor, "Hey, do you know of a way I can get to Darin? I would love to connect with him." Something in the episode touched him, and so he got my number.
Darin Olien:
Yeah. He reached out. We had a vegan dinner, or actually lunch that just went for a few hours, and it was really at the very end. We were just like, "Oh, here's a kid that cares. Obviously, he's in his thing," but it was like I really was impressed because listen, athletes and celebrities, over the years, you get these guys and they want the best elixirs or the superfoods and blah, blah, blah. But this was a cool connection. Then just at the very end ... I actually had sketched out the show that evolved from people wanting to do a superfood hunting show for years, and it was just this innocent question that he asked. He goes, "What else are you doing?" I said, "Well, I just have this idea of this travel show where we're getting into more than just superfoods, but environmental health and everything else." And he was like, "Holy shit, what?"
Darin Olien:
Then it was two hours later, he called me back and he actually had reached out to production. He had been sitting on a show that he had already been doing with Netflix, but he didn't want to do it. It didn't have all of the legs. It wasn't interesting. There was some travel, there was some eating, but it had nothing to do with health, it had nothing to do with the environment. And so he basically walked me in, so I was this foreign body coming into the production. So that journey, it started, and we just got to know each other for months and months and we finally got the show pulled off and those worlds came together.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, it's a beautiful thing. And I can tell you from what I've seen, you speak with such a truth and a passion and you just let all the bullshit ... you part through it all. And to me, Zac obviously saw that. It resonated with him at a very, very deep and profound level, and I think ... and this is just me conjecturing a little bit. But all the Hollywood fluff and all that nonsense ... and he even said it in one of the episodes where he was like, "You know what? I've had success, but I don't feel like I've made any meaningful contributions." And I think that by hooking up with you and what you guys have put together with this show, you have the potential to move the needle on so many of these things, you and him together doing this, that it will make some serious meaningful contributions to the environment, the way people look at health, everything you're trying to accomplish. So kudos.
Darin Olien:
Well, thank you. I mean, obviously, deeply in my heart and soul, that's what this is all about anyway. The last thing I wanted to do ... because it was offered many times ... is to get a celebrity and do a TV show. That's the last thing I wanted to do. I'm like, "I dedicate my life to this shit." I don't need to do a show bad enough to pull someone in just to get ratings. And so the serendipity of how this all happened, and also by Zac's honesty with me about those very conversations, like, "I am sitting on this thing, this stardom, and obviously I don't hawk things, so I want to do something," and this is like ... I mean, he believes in superfoods, he believes in eating well, he takes care of himself. All of that's legit, and then yeah, he was touched by something that we could do together and bingo.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, no, if I remember correctly, the conversation where he kind of opens up to you and the audience in a very vulnerable way ... you guys were going to visit, I think, the apple orchard, and you said, "Yeah, yeah, the apple. 1625 from Kazakhstan."
Darin Olien:
Kazakhstan, yeah. And he was like, "No."
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you're there and you're walking through the orchards and some guy's like, "Yeah, we got these from Kazakhstan," and he's like, "Shit, you knew what you were talking about."
Darin Olien:
That's the thing. You can't make that stuff up. That's where some of the show ... there was just golden moments like that. It was just you can't make that up. Yeah, it was beautiful.
Rip Esselstyn:
It was. It was. So speaking of apples, do you have a favorite apple?
Darin Olien:
Well, because I'm from Minnesota, the Honeycrisp is my favorite because we used to eat those all the time, and the flavor of those are just [crosstalk 00:28:40]
Rip Esselstyn:
It's amazing to me how the Honeycrisp has ... to me, it came onto the scene here ... I'm in Austin, Texas ... maybe a decade ago, 15 years ago, but before that, I'd never even heard of the Honeycrisp. My favorite has been the Pacific Rose from New Zealand. I love the Macoun from New York. Fuji's not bad, but yeah, yeah. Can we talk a little bit about some superfoods that you really get excited about?
Darin Olien:
Yeah, for sure.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So I'll just throw something out there to get the conversation started, but in the episode in Costa Rica, I'd never heard of a chia, that green, leafy thing that your buddy, he put a stick in the ground and it grows these chia leaves, I think he said. I'm like, "I want to try one of those." And then-
Darin Olien:
Yeah. Yeah, that-
Rip Esselstyn:
And then you're manhandling these jackfruits that are the size of a pig.
Darin Olien:
Those things, the biggest fruit in the world, for sure. Those things are ... they're one of my favorites because they can literally feed a family, those things. Full of fiber, antioxidants, and you can eat them in several different ways. You can cut them green and then you can use them as alternative meat. You can spice them up and flavor them and they're fantastic and they have the texture. They actually have the peeling, the fiber that mimics ... I don't even actually seek meat alternatives. I don't necessarily crave that anymore that I need to, but if anyone is thinking about that. But then if you let it ripe and you can just literally pull it open, that's when the jackfruit is ready to roll.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I've never tried a raw jackfruit.
Darin Olien:
Oh, dude. Dude. You will be in for it. Wherever you travel next, if you go to obviously Costa Rica, Central America, anywhere in the equatorial belt ... Thailand, you name it, Africa. I've eaten it ... Brazil, I've consumed that thing. When I'm hanging out in an area, if I'm spending some time, I'll have people go out and find two things for me, jackfruit and durian.
Rip Esselstyn:
And what is a durian?
Darin Olien:
Oh my God, durian is the king of all fruits. A durian is, as well as the most smelly of all fruits, it is illegal to take it on public transportation. You can't take it on planes, you can't take it on buses, you can't bring it in taxis, you can't bring it in hotels because it literally smells like a sewer. And it also, by the way, just by it being ripe and falls, it kills more people than any fruit because it has all these spikes on it. But that aside-
Rip Esselstyn:
Is it as big as a jackfruit?
Darin Olien:
No, it's probably a third. A very big, mature one would be a third of that size. But yeah, it's got incredible medicinal qualities, and some people like it and some people crave it, and I crave it. I actually just bought some Miami Fruits, I think it's called. Miami Fruits. I ordered some fresh jackfruit. They sent it in a freezer, and I just was craving it, so I spent the extra money shipping it to me just so I could get my craving-
Rip Esselstyn:
Miami Fruits, I'm glad you brought that up. Do you know the Mastering Diabetes guys, Cyrus and Robby?
Darin Olien:
Of course. Of course.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay, all right. Well, they just camped out at my house a couple weeks ago, and Robby-
Darin Olien:
Nice.
Rip Esselstyn:
Robby brought a box with every fruit under the sun. He didn't have a durian though. But I had more fun with those guys.
Darin Olien:
I swear Robby is the walking spokesperson and he walks around with crates of fruit. It's fantastic.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah, totally. What else? What are some other superfoods you're excited about?
Darin Olien:
There's the Kakadu plum out of Australia. Just since I was there, I fired that one up. I had sourced that one maybe a decade ago. It is comparable to camu camu as one of the highest vitamin C source fruits in the world. It comes from the kind of northeastern Australia and it's like biting into a vitamin C pill. Yeah, I'm playing with it because I'm looking into doing some functional beverage formulation stuff, so I've been looking into that. So really excited because that ... Also, when I do sourcing, it's equally important not only the quality of these things and the functionality of them ... Obviously, this would be immune boosting, vitamin C, natural bioavailability. And the research around a food form concentration of vitamin C as opposed to ascorbic acid or whatever exponentially is more bioavailable for the body, plus it does have all these other benefits instead of side effects.
Darin Olien:
So this is where I get blown away. But then once I look at quality sourcing, then I keep pulling back and I go into, okay, who's harvesting it? Who's growing it? What are the conditions? What are they being paid? What are the give back possibilities that we can? For me, that's always been the ethos of superfood hunting for 20 years. It's intimately connected to the environment, how could we make that better? How could we create economies where they didn't exist or they weren't stable? A lot of these superfood things, they really have an opportunity of creating stability where there wasn't stability economically before and socially. So that one's one I'm super excited about.
Rip Esselstyn:
Let me stop you for a sec. How do you hear or find out about these superfoods? Do you have somebody that says, "Oh yeah, there's this fruit that's grown in wherever," or are you doing a Google search or what?
Darin Olien:
Yeah. Well, I think all of the above. But no, now being in it for 20 years, I constantly get people throwing things at me and then I've got connections with farmers and collectors and manufacturers all over the world. So yeah, I look into stuff and then yeah, of course, I've Google searched stuff. But the most powerful is when you jump on a plane and you show up. And those are, "I showed up for this reason and I walked away with 20 others." So then all of a sudden you're like ... 300 botanicals later, you're going, "Holy cow." It's sometimes overwhelming, but the showing up thing, that relates all the way back to Minnesota, like, "I got to meet the farmer," kind of mentality. Like, "Where is it grown?" Innocently, I just want to know. And so-
Rip Esselstyn:
Does that go back to your dad and something you learned from your dad with agricultural businesses?
Darin Olien:
Yes, but I think it's just a small town thing. All of my cousins are farmers and ranchers and I knew all of the people I went to school with were farmers and all this stuff. And so when you're in the field ... We spent summers bean walking and weed picking and bale throwing, so for me, it's so impersonal. The exotic thing that, "This is in the Amazon," was kind of secondary. When all of a sudden now it's like exotic superfood hunter, I think it's kind of laughable because it was really like, "Wow. Where's this from? How was it processed so that it can have the integrity of what is there? What's the story behind it? How do we scale this? Who's growing it? How is that going to work?"
Darin Olien:
Even with our company that I founded, the Barùkas, this nut out Brazil, that was the first thing after a Brazilian reached out. It was one of those things. The Brazilian reached out and said, "Have you heard of this nut?" And I was like, "No. I haven't." And so then I talked to him, I received the product, I tested it. In that instance, I was like, "Okay, so you're talking a land mass that's three states of Texas. There's no growing of it in a cultivated way. It's all wild. You're dealing with an environmentally sensitive area that's being deforested faster than any landmass in the world. You're dealing with something that has never been commercialized. I got to go." There's no way I can know any of that stuff if I didn't show up. So that's always the thing. That's always the methodology.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. So how long have you been in the food business?
Darin Olien:
I mean, technically, I professionalized it in 2003 when I formed my company, Darin's Naturals. That's when my dad actually passed away. He had severe reactions to chemical sensitivities, which ultimately created the foundation for me doing Fatal Conveniences. So my father ... And I love telling this story because he was part of the Cuban Missile Crisis on an aircraft carrier and he was a keeper of the dragon and he dealt with atomic bombs. And those atomic bombs killed his thyroid, and killing his thyroid, it also suppressed and hurt his whole immune system. So he was one of the first people saying, "You can't wear deodorants and shampoos around me. These chemicals are affecting me." And so all of that happened, and I forgot the origin of your question.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, just when did you start having food businesses, and ...
Darin Olien:
Right. So my father then passed away of alcoholism after he snapped of 30 years being sober under this kind of weight of being chemicalized. I think I got like 20 grand from a life insurance thing, and for me at that time, it was huge. I said, "I'm going to take this money that was from my father and I'm going to professionalize all the research, all of the passion, all of my education that I've been garnering and actually do it." So I declared that business of finding superfoods in 2003 at the starting of that at the death of my father. That looking at foods, looking at ingredients, looking at supplement labels is really what led me into ... I was frustrated. I was like, "I know too much to know that that's crap and that's a marketing scam and this product sucks." So now this incredible food as medicine is only being marketed as that and it's not actually being that because they've just destroyed it five different ways before it showed up in that product. So I was like, "That's insane."
Darin Olien:
So then I was like, "I got to go." So that's where I had these lists. I had these Amazonian things, and that was kind of ... I mean, I had taken an India trip, but really, when I professionalized the Amazon trip, the Andes trip, all of that stuff was the ... Just that changed my life. That was like meeting farmers, which I feel so comfortable with. It's like, "Oh, he's a farmer. He works hard." It was like, "Oh, now you can just tell him to create this incredible superfood and he's going to do it." And you're like, "Shit. That's amazing. No one knows of this incredible superfood that the Incas used for a thousand years and this guy can grow it for me. Wow." It was just those kind of moments were just the discovery, the business, the ethical side of it, supporting people that I'd grown to become family, and then being able to translate those foods into people's mouths to convey the strength, the vitality that they actually do have, but maybe haven't been given a chance. It's not the easiest thing in the world. It's definitely difficult. But it's worth the effort.
Rip Esselstyn:
Man, it sounds amazing. I have a food line as well.
Darin Olien:
Oh, nice.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. For 10 years, I had it at Whole Foods. It was a Whole Food Market exclusive brand, and then it got turned back over to me. We've pivoted now and we're calling it Plant-Strong, and it is truly one of the most difficult, challenging things I've ever done in my life, is food, and all the different aspects that go into it from shipping, from freight, from supplier partners, to getting into retailers, and how many people have their hands out wanting a piece of the action. Retail is brutal, brutal. Yeah. So we're diving into the ecommerce side, and I think that's a smarter play, ultimately.
Darin Olien:
I think it is. I mean, unless there's just this golden opportunity for retail and you've got a connection to walk it in and cut through red tape. It is smart to just cut through, go direct to the customer. I'd love to know more about that. That's awesome.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you know Dan Buettner growing up in Minnesota?
Darin Olien:
I didn't know him growing up, but we went to the same exact university, but he was 10 years ahead of me. So I got to know him when I started getting into this, obviously, and Zac was ... or excuse me, Dan ... was my first call when we were carving out the longevity episode. But he was doing some Nat Geo stuff and he was like, "I can't commit because I got this other thing over there." I'm like, "Okay, cool." So unfortunately, we weren't able to figure that out. But Dan just said the other day, he goes, "Listen, I've benefited a lot from you guys' show," so that makes me happy.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well, and for people that don't know exactly what we're talking about here, I think it was episode four. It was on Sardinia and the most centenarians on the planet, and what I loved is that you kind of were trying to debunk this whole myth about high protein, low carb. These people, I mean, I love the way Valter Longo was like ...
Darin Olien:
Longo.
Rip Esselstyn:
... "Low-protein, high-carbohydrate natural foods, that's the answer." And that's what we've been preaching forever. And then for Zac, when he was like, "Oh my God, when I was doing Baywatch, I didn't have a carb for six months."
Darin Olien:
That's right. The clashing of the ideas, right? And that was a beautiful thing. When you get someone like Valter Longo saying that, he is not coming from a point of view. He's coming from his badass research, one of the great longevity researchers of our time that has dedicated his life to that. So he's coming from pure data, and so when you get him throwing out one liners, they're backed with decades of his own research. So that's a beautiful thing, you know?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. No, and I loved when you brought out the mTOR pathways and rapid cellular growth, and then I think it was the other doctor, Dr. Pres or something-
Darin Olien:
Dr. Pes, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Pes. I loved his quote where he said, "Basically, all this extra protein is like pushing the accelerator on the age-related diseases." And people need to hear this. In my third book, called The Engine 2 Seven-Day Rescue Diet, pillar number five that I have is why we got to limit the amount of protein that we consume, which is so anti-counter to everything that's out there in this culture right now.
Darin Olien:
Totally. I mean, dude, I 100% agree. Listen, I think that I was feeling like crap at a certain point in my life when I was eating all this protein stuff, and then I backed up into the research myself and go, "Fuck." And that was my Physiology 101. You know what kind of tipped me over the edge was the recycling program that the body naturally has with amino acids. I was like, "Who's talking about that? No one's talking about that." They're just-
Rip Esselstyn:
From our own flesh. From our own flesh, yeah.
Darin Olien:
Exactly. So autophagy happens, the body cleans up the cellular debris, it's got its own waste management system. But when it realizes that these amino acids that we need to reconstruct our body with, why would you get rid of them? So you break them down, you keep the amino acids you use, and you re-uptake them. So I was like, "So this doesn't make sense." All of this this amount of body weight and then this is how much body weight you want to be at, so take ... It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And then when you start realizing it's actually sprinting you towards degenerative disease, inflammation, lack of sleep, it's just ridiculous.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, and you know who Colin Campbell is, right?
Darin Olien:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
From The China Study?
Darin Olien:
Yeah, of course.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right, right. He's just done-
Darin Olien:
Future of Nutrition. He did that new book. Banged it out. I loved that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. When I had him on the podcast, he was talking about how one of the problems ... I mean, there's lots of problems with animal-based protein, but one of the problems is ... and you mentioned this earlier with the vitamin C ... but he said it's almost too bioavailable, and it's so bioavailable that it basically turns on the cancer cell proliferation and all these other things, tumor growth. And so you're much better off with something that's not as bioavailable with protein, like plant-based proteins that have the perfect amount of the essential amino acids. I found that to be fascinating, and I kind of relate that to ... Did you ever see Blade Runner with Harrison Ford?
Darin Olien:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, there's a scene in there where Rutger Hauer goes to his master to find out how he can live longer because he's programmed to live only a certain amount of time, and then basically his master looks at him and says, "Well, you're so beautiful, but the light that burns twice as bright burns half as long." And to me, that's it with protein in our culture. People have no idea what they're doing.
Darin Olien:
No idea.
Rip Esselstyn:
100, 150, 200 grams a day, just nutty.
Darin Olien:
Yeah. It's scary.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. And then in that episode in Sardinia, you guys go to the graveyards and you're looking at 102, 103, 101. It's like, this is a real thing here. I was just in Frederick, Wisconsin and my wife's mother died a couple years ago. We were in the graveyard. There were probably 1,000 gravestones there, and I made it my goal to try and find one person before I left that had lived for 100 years. It took me almost 45 minutes. I finally found one, but most people, 75, 79, 81, just crazy.
Darin Olien:
Yeah. Yeah. It's weird because as humans, it's also so hard to relate to that far away. Because we think we ... Number one, we get used to how we feel, and you don't even know how you would feel, in this case, on a plant-based diet, because you've never tried it. So it's like we all know what that switch is and when that happens, and so people get ... number one, they get numbed to that. Number two, they don't get that every choice that they're sitting in is from the choices they made from their past. So you're sitting in your future from the past that you were in, and tomorrow, you'll be sitting in the future of today from the choices you made. And so no one wants to ... They're not putting that together.
Darin Olien:
You know this. Is there any lack in what we're experiencing? Is there any lack in taste, in abundance? And in fact, it's the opposite. People say, "Oh my God, I just want to live. I just want to eat whatever I want." Okay. But you literally have no idea what I'm experiencing. What I'm experiencing is when that wild blueberry hits my tongue with all of the flavors and the stem cell activations and the taste and the texture and the color and the antioxidants, I'm experiencing nature slamming together supporting nature in the most powerful way possible. You are taking something, probably is dead, and consuming that. Life cannot shine from life, and it can't create life from death, other than unless you're a microbe.
Darin Olien:
So it's like, if you just look at it from that perspective, I don't lack anything. I celebrate all of that life that I get to choose and the bowl of fruit that was this big, it was massive, that I ate this morning. That's three bananas, my Honeycrisp apple, two cups of blueberries, two peaches, four dates. I think that was it. Some chia seeds, some Barùka nuts. That was my breakfast.
Rip Esselstyn:
Talk to me. That sounds beautiful.
Darin Olien:
Yeah. So the point is, that's a celebration of abundance in such a way that ... And that's the thing. It's hard to tell people that when they don't have that experience of their communion with their own food. It's like man, I don't know about you, but I am stoked to eat every time I eat.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, it's an embarrassment of riches. It is. It truly is. So do you have a similar bowl like that every morning?
Darin Olien:
Yeah. I mean, it's changing based on ... Obviously, we're in stone fruit time, so tons of cherries and different peaches and all of that stuff. But yeah, for the most part, that's ... Every so often, like last week, I had some teff, which is this Ethiopian superfood pseudo-grain, which was from a friend of mine that's Ethiopian starting this new company. I love that, and it's like this warm, nurturing ... But for the most part, dude, that fruit screams at me every morning and I just consume the hell out of it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. I have almost the same thing every morning as well. What do you typically have for lunch? Do you have a favorite lunch?
Darin Olien:
I kind of move through ... I mean, it's funny that this is a term now, but it's intermittent fasting. I've always kind of just had long periods of time ... I actually did it while playing college football. I would be done eating at 5:00 PM, consume the hell out of it, then I would train right away in the morning, and so I've kind of always done an intermittent type of fasting. So I'll have elixirs and stuff that I'll make, like superfood drinks, but then my first meal is like 10:30, and that's about that fruit bowl. Then I'll just cruise, and then if it's up to me and it's a controlled environment in my home, I'll have ... The next meal is my dinner around 5:00. That will be almost 100% of the time a massive salad, tons of colors, tons of different leafy greens. Again, I'm obsessed with my own Barùkas nut. I literally am.
Rip Esselstyn:
What does a Barùka nut taste like?
Darin Olien:
Dude, I got to send ... You're going to lose your mind, that's what's going to happen. You are going to lose your mind when you taste this thing. It tastes like the best version of a peanut as well as the best roasted almond combined, with a little splash of maybe popcorn or chocolate. It's weird. And it's the most nutrient-dense nut in the world. We've all tested it, all of that stuff. So I'll throw those nuts on. I usually have a big salad and then, like last night ... It's so funny we were talking about carbs. I had a half a plate of kabocha squash. What else?
Rip Esselstyn:
Where do you go to get your food?
Darin Olien:
I mean, we have a ... So there's a couple options. Number one, I'm finally able to build because of permitting stuff. I'm building a massive greenhouse on my property, so that'll be done next week.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Darin Olien:
So I'm finding out all the seeds that I want to use for that. There's a ongoing farm here in Malibu that I'll go get a bunch of the fresh biodynamic veggies, and then I have a place called Erewhon that is 10 minutes from my house that's-
Rip Esselstyn:
People have told me Erewhon is spectacular. They say it's a great place.
Darin Olien:
It's what we all wanted Whole Foods to be. So yeah, it's-
Rip Esselstyn:
Are you in a yurt right now?
Darin Olien:
I am, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
That's spectacular. So how long you been in that yurt?
Darin Olien:
Since my house burned down. You'll find that out in the last ... I just ruined it for you, but yeah. I mean, it's fine now. I've grieved it. I'm building the most epic building, sustainable, power generation, food production. It's great. It just forced my hand. So the last episode, we were in the Amazon. I knew a Malibu fire had started in 2018 ... Was it 2018? 2019. And so we were then off, so I didn't have cell reception. We got back. I had 100 messages and my neighbor took a picture of my entire property ... houses, motorcycles, barns, trucks, equipment, all of that stuff burned to the ground. So this yurt is off the grid, all solar. This is my future guesthouse that I've been in for two years with my beautiful 90-pound German Shepherd. Yeah, I'm looking at the pool that we were able to save. My house will be over on a hilltop in this direction, my new house. But right now, yeah, for two and a half years, I've been living in a yurt so it's been great.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, so that's going to lead me into ... I know we're running short on time here now, but one of your Fatal Conveniences is ignoring emotional anger. I'm wondering if your house burning down and then turning a negative into a positive, is that kind of what that is a little bit? I have no idea.
Darin Olien:
Yeah. I mean, it can be looked at as grief, it could be looked at as resentment, it could be looked at it as victimization. It's easy to say things like, "When life happens, how are you going to respond to it?" It's another thing all together when it does happen, when you lose someone, when you get a divorce, when something tragic happens, when you lose your home and everything you own. Now what? And that will kill you if you don't allow yourself to have the real emotions. The problem that I see in the world is that everyone runs and avoids their feelings and their experiences, and ultimately, that creates emotional trauma. That emotional trauma will manifest and it will kill you eventually, if it doesn't completely just take you out.
Darin Olien:
So from that perspective, I never wanted to be in conflict, being a small town kid. Avoid conflict, someone's pissed at me, run away, all of that stuff. So now, I think a superpower is when you have conflict, sit with it, grieve with it, allow the emotions, cry, scream. Everything that doesn't harm you, get it out, move it, find people, talk about it. Whatever you can, go inside and allow all of that, and then there'll be that certain point where there's a question that's the most powerful question, or the statement really, and that is, there is nothing wrong in the world. There's nothing wrong on the planet. In nature, there's nothing wrong ever. It is just things that are occurring. The wave crashes, and if that wave is big and you're trying to surf it, it might kill you. It's life. It's our perspective.
Darin Olien:
So my perspective has been cultivating in my 20s, finding myself, excavating the pain, figuring out the higher powers that I believe in, the nature, the connectedness, the no excuses, the no victimizations. I came to realize that zero in my life happens to me. It is all ... every bit of it, from the pain, the anger, the resentment, the being wrong, you name it ... it is happening for me. That is literally my point of view. And I may not be able to see that in that first month of just absolutely having my life shatter as I came back into having no pillow, no bed, no home, no photograph of my father, zero, nothing. So you have to allow yourself to healthfully go through that and let it happen.
Darin Olien:
Once you go through that healthfully, you have a choice. Are you going to stay into, "Oh my God. Oh my God." The society doesn't help, by the way. I think our society sucks in terms of being able to grieve through life. We also keep shelter. I could feel it with people. "Oh my God, I'm so sorry. Oh my God, that must have been so ..." Okay. Well, six months after that, I don't need that from you. I'm good. I literally would not have changed, Rip, anything from that experience because it gave me so much. It fortified my work. It fortified the reason I did the show. It fortified why I spent 20 years in uncomfortable planes and mountaintops and you name it. It fortified that. It strengthened relationships. It brought me to a depth that I didn't even know or have access to before of knowing who I am and what I'm committed to.
Darin Olien:
So are you kidding, that I would take that back, because a house burned down? No frickin' way. I can create and build my life at any point. Did I want it to happen? Hell no. Would I wish it upon anyone? Hell no. But it happened, so what are the gifts? Now, I get to create possibilities for myself about living into a future that's healthy for myself, healthier to build, better use of power, generation of power, better use of water. And guess what I get to do? Tell people about it. Share people. Make connections possible for more people to be able to do that. Hell yeah. Let's go.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, not, "Hell yeah." Kale yeah. Come on, let's get it right.
Darin Olien:
Kale yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thank you for sharing that. Really, that is so empowering, and I think everybody needed to hear that. Darin, I don't want to be too selfish with your time here. I think we're pushing up here against the hour. But this has been an absolute pleasure, an absolute joy. I hope to have you back on the show again in the future, and I really hope to meet you in person. That would be fabulous.
Darin Olien:
I look forward to that, dude.
Rip Esselstyn:
I now consider you a Plant-Strong brother and I am so glad that you are out there doing your thing. How can people find out more about you?
Darin Olien:
Yeah, just Darin Olien. Darinolien.com, Darin Olien social, all of that stuff. You find your way. We'll be charging one way or another. But dude, yeah, we got to get your ass on my podcast. I'd love to dig in with you and I can't wait to Plant-Strong together one day.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, and I'm excited, man. There's an episode two of Down to Earth. Woo.
Darin Olien:
Yeah, season two is-
Rip Esselstyn:
That's what I meant. Yeah.
Darin Olien:
Yes. Season two is being ... I've seen a couple episodes already and it's being put together, so you're going to dig it. It got into some stuff.
Rip Esselstyn:
When can we expect that to be on Netflix? Do you know?
Darin Olien:
We don't know yet, but I would imagine the first quarter of next year is really, really safe.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay. Yep. Hey, can you do the sign off with me? Just repeat after me. Peace.
Darin Olien:
Peace.
Rip Esselstyn:
Turn it around. Engine 2.
Darin Olien:
Engine 2.
Rip Esselstyn:
Keep it Plant-Strong.
Darin Olien:
Keep it Plant-Strong, brother. Nice.
Rip Esselstyn:
Darin is definitely a brother from another mother and I am so happy that I am starting to get to know this gentleman. I look forward to following his journeys in season two of Down to Earth and all of his future endeavors in the world of superfoods. Just keep an eye out. Darin had me on his podcast, The Darin Olien Show, and that should be popping up very soon as well.
Rip Esselstyn:
For more information on today's show, visit the episode page at plantstrongpodcast.com. We'll see y'all next week, but in the meantime, peace, Engine 2, keep it Plant-Strong. Thank you for listening to the Plant-Strong Podcast. You can support the show by taking a quick minute to follow us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Leaving us a positive review and sharing the show with your network is another great way to help us reach as many people as possible with the exciting news about plants. Thank you in advance for your support. It means everything.
Rip Esselstyn:
Have you had your own Galileo moment that you'd like to share? What happened when you stepped into the arena and shed the beliefs that you thought to be true? I'd love to hear about it. Visit plantstrongpodcast.com to submit your story and to learn more about today's guest and sponsors. The Plant-Strong Podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin, and Wade Clark. This season is dedicated to all of those courageous truth seekers who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth, most notably, my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. and Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks for listening.
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