#180: Are Coconuts a Plantstrong Food? Rip Esselstyn and Jessica Hegarty Investigate!
Watch the Entire Episode on YouTube
We’re happy to welcome back the popular, Jessica Hegarty, to the podcast! Jess and Rip did this Facebook live event a few weeks ago and the response was so powerful, we wanted to share it with all of you.
Jess is the Director of Food Development and Strategy around all of our PLANTSTRONG food lines. She’s the one who researches every new product and ingredient we look at for our foods and if it doesn’t pass her sniff test, it doesn’t make it into the mix! Needless to say, we trust her implicitly and, if you’ve tasted our PLANTSTRONG foods, you know the rigorous taste and nutritional standards she holds us all to.
Today, Jess is here to talk coconuts. As you may know, we at PLANTSTRONG aren’t huge fans of it because of the ridiculously high amount of saturated fat. Saturated fat isn’t just detrimental to our arteries and endothelial cells, but it’s also harmful to our brain health. In fact, it’s pretty much the only whole plant food we just can’t endorse and you’ll hear exactly why.
But, Jess doesn’t just look under the hood of the coconut itself. she also explores other popular coconut-based products:
Coconut oils
Coconut waters
Coconut extract
Coconut yogurts and milks
Coconut flours
Can any of these products be considered a plantstrong food? Are all the “supposed” health benefits just marketing hype? Is any of it worth our valuable dollar?
She’ll tell us and even provide some fun and healthy alternatives! It’s a fun and in-depth look at this exotic fruit.
Episode Timestamps
6:25 Why is coconut the one plantstrong food we recommend you stay away from?
6:40 Why is saturated fat so detrimental to our health and endothelial function?
12:30 What is the saturated fat of typical foods in the American diet?
18:44 Coconuts are saturated fat bombs — similar to a Meal from McDonald’s?? Jess talks about the study to prove it.
24:00 Coconut Oil - Are there any health benefits to our body and skin?
28:48 Coconut Extract - Not flavors!
30:10 How to make your own coconut extract at home
31:10 Coconut Milk and Yogurts - What are some great alternatives to this concentrated saturated fat bomb?
37:08 Coconut Water - Is it really packed with electrolytes? Alternatives? Green tea and whole foods
40:40 Why was coconut even put on this planet?
46:00 Coconut Sugar - concentrated sugar with no fiber. Alternatives? Try dates!
48:55 Coconut Meat and Dried Shredded Coconut
54:30 Coconut Flours - Can you find de-fatted coconut?
Episode Resources
Watch the Original Episode on YouTube
PubMed Study - Impairment of endothelial function--a possible mechanism for atherosclerosis of a high-fat meal intake
Homemade Coconut Extract Recipe
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Full Audio Transcript
Rip Esselstyn:
Hey, my cruciferous cousins, if you happen to live near a Whole Food market store, there's never been a better time to stock up on Plantstrong chilies and stews. That's because we're on sale for the rest of January, and you'll notice we're on display alongside our friends at Mary's Gone Crackers. These crunchy little adorable crackers hit the spot when you're craving something wholesome to dip into your hummus. I love dipping Mary's Gone Crackers into any of our chilies and stews. You can pick them up all this month at a Whole Food market store across the country, or any time at plantstrongfoods.com.
Jessica Hegarty:
So coconut oil being positioned as a health food, you've said this phrase, "The greatest lie the devil ever told." It's very bad. It's essentially the same as butter when it comes to fat in your blood.
Rip Esselstyn:
Let me, before we go to the next slide, I just want to put in my two cents here as well.
Jessica Hegarty:
Please.
Rip Esselstyn:
Because I just want to reiterate to all of our listeners today that all oil is junk and coconut oil in particular just promotes, with all the saturated fat, promotes that inflammation. I'm Rip Esselstyn and welcome to the Plantstrong Podcast. The mission at Plantstrong is to further the advancement of all things within the plant-based movement. We advocate for the scientifically-proven benefits of plant-based living, and envision a world that universally understands, promotes and prescribes plants as a solution to empowering your health, enhancing your performance, restoring the environment, and becoming better guardians to the animals we share this planet with.
We welcome you wherever you are on your Plantstrong journey, and I hope that you enjoy the show. I am thrilled to welcome back the popular Jessica Hegarty to the Plantstrong Podcast. Jess and I just did this Facebook Live event a few weeks ago, and the response was so powerful, so overwhelming that we wanted to share it with all of you. So a little backstory about Jess as a little reminder, Jess is the director of food development around all of our Plantstrong food line.
She's the one who does the deep dive into the research around all new products, all the ingredients that we're looking for in our food. And if it doesn't pass her sniff test, it's not going to make it in. Needless to say, I trust her implicitly. And if you've ever tasted our Plantstrong foods, you know the rigorous taste and nutritional standards that we hold ourselves to.
Today, Jess is here to talk coconuts. As you may know, we at Plantstrong, we're not huge fans of it because of the ridiculously high amounts of saturated fat. In fact, it's pretty much the only whole food that we can't endorse when it comes to plants. But Jess doesn't just look under the hood of the coconut itself. She also explores other popular coconut-based products like coconut oil, coconut water, coconut extract, coconut yogurts, coconut flour.
My question to you guys is, can any of these products be considered a Plantstrong food? Are all the supposed health benefits just marketing hype? Is any of it worth our valuable dollars? She'll tell us and even provide some fun alternatives. This is a in-depth look at this exotic fruit, and I can't wait to share it with all of you. And if you want to watch the entire presentation on YouTube, we'll provide the link in the show notes for you at planstrongpodcast.com. All right, she's back. Please welcome Jessica Hegarty.
Jessica Hegarty:
Thanks, Rip, and thanks for letting me be able to speak about this today. I have to say coconut is one of my favorite foods. Taste-wise coconut is probably second only to chocolate. And so when I first was learning about a plant strong way of eating, I was like, "This is going to be easy." Avocados, walnuts, olives, great, whole plant foods, awesome. I will just eat my coconut and I'll blend it really nicely into a coconut cream, the whole coconut, and that'll be my whole plant food.
And when you shared with me that actually we kind of steer clear of coconut, that for me was a challenge. There's many things that are challenging for people who are converting to this lifestyle, and giving up coconut was that for me. So I set out to do this research, in all honesty, to prove you wrong. I really wanted you to be wrong about coconut. Why is this the one whole plant food that we recommend people steer clear of? I went all food lawyery and looked at every single coconut product I could think of, did a ton of research, and came to some conclusions about which of these products, if any, might be considered a Plantstrong food. So I'd love to go through those with you today.
Rip Esselstyn:
I would absolutely love it. So do we have a slide deck? There we go. Yeah, we have Michael Fleming in the back. He's our producer today, and he'll be helping us go through this slide deck. And Jess, I love the fact that you and I, one of the things we do love doing with coconuts is we love juggling them.
Jessica Hegarty:
Totally.
Rip Esselstyn:
Three coconuts and you got yourself a juggling feast.
Jessica Hegarty:
That's right. That's right. Unlike apples or other foods, they don't bruise when you drop them. They're [inaudible 00:06:13].
Rip Esselstyn:
No, they don't, do they? Yeah.
Jessica Hegarty:
Well, yeah. So Rip, again, why is coconut the only plant food we advise people to stay away from? Nuts are okay, dried fruits in moderation also okay. Why no coconut? Why is it the forbidden fruit of Plantstrong? And it's really two words. You know where I'm going with this. Why? Two words, what are they?
Rip Esselstyn:
Saturated.
Jessica Hegarty:
Saturated.
Rip Esselstyn:
Fat.
Jessica Hegarty:
That's right. So let's do a quick review. I think we all kind of know that saturated fat is not the best thing for your body, but why is that? So saturated fat in the short term, if you eat one meal with saturated fat, you're going to see more fat in your blood, and you might even feel it. For those who have been living a Plantstrong lifestyle, I bet if you sat down and ate a curry, you would feel sluggish and groggy and you would feel it right? Over time, we know that saturated fat can increase your LDL cholesterol. How do we know the difference between LDL cholesterol and HDL cholesterol? How do you remember which one's good, which one's bad?
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, for me, it's easy. The L just represents lethal.
Jessica Hegarty:
That's right. That's right. That's how I do it too. Maybe I learned that from you. So it contributes to elevating that LDL, lethal density lipoprotein cholesterol. It also contributes to atherosclerosis, right, hardening of the arteries. You see plaque buildup. It increases the risk of heart disease, of course, which we know is the number one killer of men and women in America, increases the risk of stroke, diabetes. Saturated fats of course cause insulin resistance and then also cancer.
So saturated fat is really bad for your body, and it turns out it's also, because it's bad for your body, bad for your brain. So it increases the risk of Alzheimer's and dementia, and that's actually proportional to the amount that you consume. So there was a dose response analysis that showed that for every four grams of saturated fat consumed daily, you increase your risk of Alzheimer's by 15%.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. No, that's absolutely, yeah, it's staggering. And to me, the thing that's also staggering is just how there's so much misinformation right now around saturated fat, because you have these camps, obviously the paleo, the keto, and the carnivore camp that are trying to say that saturated fat is your friend, which I don't understand, because to me the science is pretty darn definitive that as human beings we have no requirement for saturated fat. The only fat we really need are the polyunsaturated omega-3s and omega-6s that we have to get from food. Otherwise, saturated fat, you know what? I mean, leave it, leave it alone. I mean, look what you just went through, Jess. I mean, one, two, three, four, five, six things that increase your chances for chronic western disease.
Jessica Hegarty:
Right. And some people might not care if they're a little bit overweight or if they don't have energy or maybe their cholesterol's a little high. But when it comes to your brain, that's your personality and how you think and how you live your life. That's something, if you're not motivated by your body, steering clear of saturated fat because of the negative impact it can have on your brain, that's a good motivator for a lot of people.
Rip Esselstyn:
And just look at the research from Deanin Isoshurzi, right, out at Loma Linda. The fact that we have now almost 50% of us when we get to the age of 80 that are having some form of dementia or Alzheimer's, to me, is in large part because of the standard American diet that is so heavy in the saturated fats. You can't steer clear of saturated fat if you're eating red meat, chicken, fish, if you're eating dairy products, and obviously coconut.
Jessica Hegarty:
That's right. That's right. And four grams of saturated fat, again increase your risk of Alzheimer's by 15%. That's like half a macaroon. That's like nothing. Four grams of saturated fat is nothing.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is that a day? Four grams a day?
Jessica Hegarty:
Per day. Per day.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay, yeah.
Jessica Hegarty:
So eating half a macaroon per day is going to increase your risk of Alzheimer's by 15%.
Rip Esselstyn:
I mean, Jess, I know firefighters I used to work with that were doing shots of coconut oil before breakfast, before lunch and before dinner, because they thought it was healthy.
Jessica Hegarty:
Oh my gosh.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Ooh, ooh, it's painful.
Jessica Hegarty:
Scary. Scary. Well Rip, as you alluded to, the most common sources of saturated fat are of course animal products. So that's where the average American who's consuming a ton of saturated fat, they're coming from things like cheese, beef, processed meats. If you're eating bacon every day or you're eating even a piece of cheese every day, you're going to be getting those four grams. One small serving of cheese is between five to six grams of saturated fat, and who eats just one serving of cheese? If you're eating cheese, you're probably having more than that.
So it's quite surprising that every little bit really counts. So of course, I pulled together some information about the amount of saturated fat in a variety of animal products. But the big thing is there's a ton of saturated fat and zero fiber. So we know that saturated fat increases cholesterol, but fiber brings it down. So if there's some fiber to offset it, that can really help.
Rip Esselstyn:
One of the things I'd love for you to do for people that are just listening is just kind of go through and share some of those saturated fat numbers with each food group.
Jessica Hegarty:
Sure. So I've put together, I have a graph in front of me that has 100 grams of typical foods that you would see in a standard American diet. So we've got 100 grams of cheddar cheese, which is about three servings of cheese. It's going to have 400 calories, 21 grams of saturated fat and zero fiber. Filet mignon, a nice fatty piece of beef. 100 grams is one serving. You're going to get 270 calories, seven grams of saturated fat, again, zero grams of fiber. So it's quite disturbing. Even a glass of whole milk is 240 grams. So you are going to see five grams of saturated fat and zero grams of fiber.
So it's really easy to get that saturated fat if you're consuming animal products. It builds quite quickly. But as we know, there are plant foods that actually contain saturated fat. So I put together a list of those as well. Again, all measurements are in 100 grams so that we can compare apples to apples. 100 grams of fresh coconut, which is a serving, it's two inches by three inches, about half an inch thick, that's 350 calories, 30 grams of saturated fat. That's a ton.
And yes, there's fiber, there's nine grams of fiber in that, but is it enough to offset all of that saturated fat? I'm not so sure. Rip, what else do you want to call out here? I think it's interesting that cashews are one of the nuts with the highest saturated fat content. 100 grams is like three servings of cashews, and you're going to see eight grams of saturated fat, four grams of fiber.
Rip Esselstyn:
Most nuts typically sit about 15% of their calories are coming from saturated fat. Same thing with avocados. One of the things on this chart that I find really amazing is the coconut oil. So if you have 100 grams, you're going to take in 860 calories and 87 grams of saturated fat. So it's really crazy. The other thing that's kind of surprising is nutmeg there on the far right.
Jessica Hegarty:
Nutmeg has an unbelievable amount of saturated fat. Who knew? And nutmeg, you're only using a sprinkle for even the most nutmeg-heavy recipes. So I'm not worried about that. I just thought it was interesting that it has saturated fat. I wonder if it's related to coconut. Maybe it is.
Rip Esselstyn:
And then, of course, unfortunately you've got the 70% dark chocolate that is 575 calories for 100 grams and 27 grams of saturated fat, which is one of the reasons why with dark chocolate, I mean chocolate in general, you got to leave it for special occasions.
Jessica Hegarty:
Totally, totally. And chocolate is the number one craved food in the world. So yeah, that's a hard one for a lot of people. I do know that there's defatted coconut, excuse me, defatted cacao powder out there that you can buy. So if you have a chocolate fix, sprinkle a little of that on a date with a piece of walnut. That might be a good alternative for somebody who's craving chocolate. I saw a question come up and somebody was asking if we are saying we shouldn't eat avocados, walnuts, things with low levels of saturated fat and high levels of fiber.
We're not saying that at all. Avocados are great, walnuts are great. We do advise, because they are calorie dense, for people to consume them in moderation. We're not suggesting that you go eat two whole avocados for lunch, which is what somebody on a keto diet might think is healthy for you. But no, the high fiber content in those foods offset any negative impacts from those lower amounts of saturated fat. But coconut with 30 grams of saturated fat per serving, I mean, I want to see 60 grams of fiber before I call that a healthy [inaudible 00:17:00].
Rip Esselstyn:
And let me add, Jess, to that is that I think everybody that's listening, you probably know where you are as far as your health, and if there's any concerns with, for example, type two diabetes, with heart disease, maybe you've had a brush across the bow with cancer. I was interviewing John McDougal yesterday, Jess, and he said that with his heart patients, and the same thing with my father, obviously, he's like, "They don't know moderation with nuts and avocados." So know yourself, what your health goals are, and then act accordingly.
It's a spectrum depending upon where you are. And Jess and I, our numbers are great. We've been doing this for a long time, and we can get away with a little bit more than maybe some other people that need to be a little more judicious.
Jessica Hegarty:
That's right, Rip. We've had morning meetings. You see I eat a plate of berries and a slice of avocado toast, thin spread on a whole grain Ezekiel English muffin. That's what I eat every morning. But to your point, I'm physically active and I really don't deviate from a Plantstrong diet hardly ever. So yeah, that's a great point. So as I said the beginning of this episode, I researched the heck out of this, went all food lawyery, and I'm really disappointed to report to you that unfortunately coconuts are truly saturated fat bombs. And I'm going to steer clear of them generally.
Here's the study that did it for me. So there was a study out of Singapore that measured endothelial function of participants who ate saturated fat from rice and coconut. There's a local meal there called nasi lemak, which means rice with fat, and we know that the fat is coming from coconut. So half the participants ate nasi lemak, and half the participants ate an equivalent saturated fat meal from McDonald's.
Now, the study didn't indicate what they ate, but we can assume it was likely beef, cheese. If it was something off the breakfast menu, maybe it had some eggs. And the arterial reaction from the coconut rice dish was as bad as McDonald's. And after that, I can't keep my head in the sand, right? I can't have this information about curry and eat it too.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, and when you put it that way, it has the same function on your endothelium that a McDonald's Happy Meal or unhappy meal would have. That's kind of enlightening and maybe we should heed that.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yes, yes. And I see someone's asking for the link to the study. I'm happy. We'll put that in the show notes. You'll probably do like I did and open up that study. Let me look at it with a fine tooth comb. And let me tell you what I found. Again, I dug deeper. So the regional variation of nasi lemak, how it's consumed in Singapore specifically, it's often served with eggs, anchovies, fried chicken thighs, peanuts, all of these other animal-based foods that are high in saturated fat.
Michael, if you want to go to the next slide, I actually Googled nasi lemak Singapore, and I couldn't find a single picture of it without some animal-based accoutrement. So is that study giving us some useful information? Hard to say. Hard to say. I think until more research is done, there's not definitive evidence that the saturated fat from coconut is as bad as the saturated fat in animal products, but there's definitely not proof that it's better for you. So in the meantime, my philosophy is better safe than sorry. There are plenty of other foods out there.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, but I will counter that, Jess, and say that a lot of the paleo people will say, "Yeah, but the saturated fat in coconut is coming from these healthy medium chain triglycerides that react differently in your body. The lauric acid performs in a way that, I don't know, is healthier." Let's just give them that. Okay? Well, but that lauric acid actually comprises like 46% of the saturated fat in the coconut. The remainder is coming from the same kind of long chain triglycerides, unhealthy fats that are in pork, that are in red meat, you name it, cheese.
And you just showed that slide before, how many grams of saturated fat there are in coconut, coconut oil, all that stuff. And so to me it's like, I think it's pretty definitive. I think we know the answer. I really do. Because here's what I worry, if you tell people, "But it's not definitive, and it might be," and they're going to be, "Oh, good, you've just given me permission to eat all I want."
Jessica Hegarty:
That's great. Well, yes, and thank you for spelling that out, Rip. Yes. But I had to be unbiased. I wanted to share all of the information here. But yeah, that's a great point. And Rip, I'll share with you, I'm actually grateful for the lack of information I had at one point in time. I used to drink an MCT oil coffee every morning. Do you remember butter coffees? You used to be able to get them at Whole Foods?
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh yeah. David Asprey. Oh yeah.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah. They were expensive, they were delicious, and they were terrible for you. My cholesterol, even though I was otherwise eating pretty healthy, was 300. I started eating a whole food, plant-based diet because my cholesterol was so high. My cholesterol came down 100 points, and I haven't looked back since. So I'm glad for that period of my life where I was having that coconut consumption every day, and glad it's over. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Good. You've moved on.
Jessica Hegarty:
I've moved on. I've moved on. So let's dive in. As I said, I did a systematic deep dive into coconuts and all the coconut products you can think of. And there might be some that would qualify as a Plantstrong food. So do you want to walk through these with me?
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, yeah. I'm really curious.
Jessica Hegarty:
Okay, great. So first one I'm doing coconut oil because I think that one's really obvious. No, it is not a Plantstrong food, but it's one of those questions that I get asked a lot, and I assume you do too, right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Sure. Yeah.
Jessica Hegarty:
What's the healthiest oil? I know all oils are bad, but if you're going to pick one, what do you recommend? Coconut oil? And as you correctly pointed out, 100 grams, Michael, if you could go back just one more, 100 grams of coconut oil is 87 grams of saturated fat. It's crazy high. So coconut oil being positioned as a health food, I think you've said this phrase, the greatest lie the devil ever told. It's very bad. It's essentially the same as butter when it comes to fat in your blood.
Rip Esselstyn:
Let me, before we go to the next slide, I just want to put in my two cents here as well, because I just want to reiterate to all of our listeners today that all oil is junk, and coconut oil in particular with all the saturated fat, promotes that inflammation in our body. And I just want to cite, there was a great interview in the New York Times with Dr. Alice Lichtenstein. She is a professor of nutritional science and policy at Tufts University.
She also, Jess, you'll appreciate this, she's the vice chair of the Federal Governments Dietary Guideline Advisory Committee. And she said that yes, despite all the hype around coconut oil, there's virtually not one stitch of data to support the hype. So it's just hype and there's so much hype around it that it makes you dizzy, but it's just noise and hype. Don't fall for it.
Jessica Hegarty:
What a great ad, Rip. Thank you so much, and I'm happy to hear additional sources of validation besides research studies, other people talking about this. So knowing that, I will say coconut oil is a staple in my household. It's a staple for my household. So we keep it around because it's great for your skin and there's a lot of [inaudible 00:26:12].
Rip Esselstyn:
You had my hair stand for a second.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah, no, keep it out of the kitchen, but it's okay in your bathroom, right? I use it as a moisturizer. You can use it as a little bit of lip balm in really small quantities as something you can run through your hair to reduce frizz. I also use it as a shaving cream. And I'll say anybody who's doing that, make sure you wipe down the bathtub afterwards. You don't want to make it super slippery. And my favorite application of coconut oil is as a chemical-free makeup remover.
So ladies, if you're using something with chemicals in it to wipe away eye makeup, make the change. Paper towel and some coconut oil, it's going to be great for your skin. And yeah, I absolutely love it. So takeaway, use it on your body, not in your body. I know that there are a lot of healthy dessert or healthy recipes out there. You see it a lot in baked goods. The recipe's otherwise great, but it uses coconut oil. So for those who might be looking for an alternative, what can you do, right?
My recommendation, you probably know this, is applesauce. We always keep one of those little six packs of unsweetened applesauce cups in the cupboard. So we're ready to modify a recipe and avoid all of those extra processed oil calories and that saturated fat. And if you don't have applesauce, I want to empower these people who are making recipes. You can use a one-to-one volumetric equivalent of many other types of blended fruits.
So mashed banana would work great. Blended prunes is also a cult favorite among whole food plant-based bakers. You could also use a smashed avocado if you were doing something savory. So again, you can use it, if it's requesting a quarter of a cup of coconut oil, put in a quarter of a cup of blended prunes, it's going to be great.
Rip Esselstyn:
And this time of the year, another thing that works well is pumpkin puree.
Jessica Hegarty:
Oh, good idea. What a great idea. Yeah. Good, good call. Good call.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. And you mentioned that it's a great makeup remover, you said for the ladies, but there's some men that use makeup as well.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah, that's true. That's true. It's funny. Whole Foods started selling towelettes covered in coconut oil, like single use towelettes covered in coconut oil. But yes, men and women can use those alike. Absolutely. All right, what's next? Coconut extract. So Rip, we've talked about this before. I've seen it in some Plantstrong food demos with Jane and Ann. I also am okay with extracts in our kitchen. You're going to find vanilla extract, almond extract, coconut extract. Those are the main three.
But I want to be clear, we believe it to be a Plantstrong food, but we are talking about extracts, not flavors. So vanilla flavor, for example, is a synthetic, manmade chemical compound called vanillin that mimics vanilla taste. So vanilla extract, on the other hand, is just vanilla beans and some sort of carrier like alcohol. And because extracts are a concentrated product, I would be sure to try to find one that's organic, that doesn't have any extra ingredients, particularly added sugar.
I see a lot of extracts out there with corn syrup or agave or natural flavors. We don't need any of that. And I had a hard time finding a brand that checked all of these boxes. So my recommendation is to make it at home. And I think that would make a great holiday gift, if you're looking for something to give away to neighbors. We're going to post a link in the show notes to a recipe that uses vodka, which is the alcohol-based carrier, and fresh coconut. You soak it for I think five to seven days and it's good to go. So I'm not implying that vodka is a Plantstrong food.
Rip Esselstyn:
No, no. I'm just amazed that you're recommending people make their own coconut extract.
Jessica Hegarty:
Oh, it's so easy. Shredded fresh coconut and then pour in the vodka. Let it sit for five days. That's all you need to do. But yeah, of course, when you're using it in small quantities and you're baking it most of the time, that alcohol's going to be cooked out of it. So takeaway, yes, coconut extract is a Plantstrong food, but considering the fact that most brands have ingredients that are not so savory, I think it's best to make your own. It's my recommendation.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
Jessica Hegarty:
All right. What have we got next?
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh, this looks dangerous. Danger, danger, Will Robertson danger.
Jessica Hegarty:
It was hard for me to research all of these coconut products without craving coconut, Rip. It was so strange. But yeah, coconut milk, the stuff that makes curries so delicious and irresistible.
Rip Esselstyn:
I know.
Jessica Hegarty:
One serving of unsweetened coconut milk has 11 grams of saturated fat. That's more than half of your daily value in a meager one-third cup.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's the American Heart Association and others recommend that your upper limit of saturated fat for the day should be about 7% of your calories. Think about that. That's 11 grams right there, you said?
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
11?
Jessica Hegarty:
11.
Rip Esselstyn:
So I'm assuming that you multiply that by 10 because there's 10 calories in a gram. So that's 110 calories right there.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yes. And I think those national guidelines are generous, because they know that people aren't going to eliminate all animal foods out of their diet. So there's probably some influence happening to keep the daily recommended value of saturated fats high. But yeah, that's a great call out, Rip. I was just talking about coconut milk with those stats. I'm not even talking about coconut cream, which is typically used in a lot of restaurant food. It's more concentrated coconut milk so it's going to have two to three times the saturated fat. Even the light version. Have you seen those cans of coconut light?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes.
Jessica Hegarty:
So that's the lowest fat option. It's still going to have those four grams of saturated fat per serving, which is about 20% of that daily value. And no fiber.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yep. So takeaway here. Coconut milk, it's concentrated saturated fat without any fiber. Definitely not a Plantstrong food. So yeah, let's talk about some alternatives though. So I think it depends on the application. If you're looking for an alternative to coconut milk that might be Plantstrong. I know Ann's trick that we love so much is soy milk, which is a milk that is a plant-based milk that has higher fat content than some alternatives and a little bit of that coconut extract. You're going to get the fatty mouth feel with that coconut flavor and a little bit of sweetness. I think that's a great option if you're making a curry.
One thing that we do in our household is we use a little bit of nut butter. So cashew is the smoothest and the mildest. Also, sunflower seed butter. That might be a good option. Depending on the dish, you might also want to use tahini or peanut butter. Those flavors could play nicely. Another one, potatoes, like a super creamy baked Yukon gold that you just blend the crap out of. Or a Japanese sweet potato. You know we love those. Blending those up really nicely would give a creamy texture. And if you're really going for something healthy, I would recommend beans. Something like a ready to eat creamy cannellini bean or red lentils, right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jessica Hegarty:
Plenty of options. Plenty of options out there. We don't need the coconut milk. We definitely don't.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is there such a thing as a non-fat coconut milk? I just saw somebody post about it.
Jessica Hegarty:
Oh, if there's one out there, yeah, please post the link to it. We'll check it out later. I'd love to see that. I wonder what it would taste like though.
Rip Esselstyn:
I know, I know. Yeah. Well, probably coconut water.
Jessica Hegarty:
Probably. Yeah, probably coconut water. So that was just regarding canned coconut products. We also see in the refrigerated section, coconut milks. It's a really common dairy alternative. Is this a Plantstrong food? Still no. It's got the same amount of saturated fat as whole milk actually, about four grams per cup, again, with no fiber. So takeaway, is it healthy? No. Is it Plantstrong? No.
Rip Esselstyn:
No.
Jessica Hegarty:
Is it environmentally and ethically friendly? Totally. But yeah, not a Plantstrong food. So any other, if you're looking for an alternative to coconut milk, like a Silk brand or some sort of refrigerated milk, any other plant-based milk is going to have less saturated fat. Even the creamiest, most concentrated plant-based milks out there, Rip, I'm thinking about Elmhurst Cashew, right? We know cashews have one of the highest amounts of saturated fat of any nut. They're going to have significantly less saturated fat. I think they have 1.5 grams per cup versus coconut milk with four. So yeah. Plenty of other options.
Rip Esselstyn:
And Jess, what about, I would imagine this carries over also into coconut yogurts that are also pretty popular.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yes. Great point. Yes, thank you. That's right. Those are so often loaded with sugar and other strange gums, emulsifiers. I didn't even look into those because they've got the added sugar. They've got those strange ingredients and they have the fat. So coconut ice cream, coconut yogurt. I haven't found an option out there that I would consider to be Plantstrong.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, you just mentioned coconut ice cream, or I should say, let me just, yeah, a lot of plant-based ice creams are using coconut as their base.
Jessica Hegarty:
That's right.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right? To get that mouth feel. It's very similar to cow's milk. So check that out. And if the saturated fat is leaping off the page and it's more than four grams per serving, then I can almost guarantee you, you've got some sort of coconut cream or milk that's the base for that ice cream.
Jessica Hegarty:
Totally, totally. And again, our alternative, if you're craving some ice cream, you know the magic of bananas, right, frozen bananas. But yeah, couldn't find any options out there, unfortunately. Let's talk about another coconut beverage, coconut water.
Rip Esselstyn:
But I need all my minerals that are in the coconut water. I need them. I need all those nutrients.
Jessica Hegarty:
Oh my gosh, Rip, that's exactly right. That's the argument. So first off, I'll just throw it out there. It violates the Plantstrong tenet of don't drink your calories. We know that. But to your point, we see so many instances of the coconut industry grasping at straws to make coconut a health food and positioning it as this natural Gatorade is one of those. Have you seen Idiocracy? Do you remember that movie? Have you seen it?
Rip Esselstyn:
I've heard of it. I have not seen, no.
Jessica Hegarty:
Everybody's drinking, there's this green beverage that comes out of water fountains. It's in toilets, it's this electrolyte beverage. And then whenever anybody questions it, they say, "Oh, it has electrolytes." But yeah. So what are electrolytes, right? The coconut industry talks about coconut water. It has electrolytes, it's a health food. What are electrolytes? So they are, and Rip, I'm sure you probably know this, those essential minerals that are vital to key functions in the body.
So things like sodium, calcium, potassium, and yes, coconut water does have some of these mineral minerals. It's actually really high in sodium and potassium. If you look at the back of a coconut water label, you'll see it has more than a one-to-one ratio of sodium. I was really surprised by that. So of course, across different brands of coconut, you're going to see some variation based on the variety or the region or the dilution. But the average off-the-shelf coconut water has approximately 40 calories and 60 milligrams of sodium per cup. Isn't that surprising?
Rip Esselstyn:
40 calories per serving, huh?
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah, and 60 milligrams of sodium. That's a one to 1.5 ratio. That's pretty high.
Rip Esselstyn:
So I would imagine most of those coconut waters are what, two to two-and-a-half servings per bottle?
Jessica Hegarty:
Yes. Yep, yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
So you're probably drinking around 100 calories for each one of those.
Jessica Hegarty:
That's right. That's right. The other thing that's interesting is they're crazy high in potassium, which can be a good thing, I guess, if you're drinking a little bit. But if you're someone who's living with reduced kidney function, either from type two diabetes, or maybe you've had a kidney removed, that coconut water goes down fast, you get that flood of potassium. It can be bad news. So yeah, it has electrolytes. And now that I know what electrolytes are, I'm not really impressed. Can you name a whole plant food that doesn't have electrolytes?
Rip Esselstyn:
No. It's kind of inherent there in the plant. One of the things, this is making me think, and I'd love to hear everybody who's listening, your thoughts, if you could put them into the chat. So we've talked about how the coconut has more saturated fat really than any other food on the planet. It's the one plant food that we really very thoughtfully stay away from. But why did nature put it there? What was the reason for something that has this much fat, saturated fat? It comes in that crazy shell. There's got to be a reason.
Jessica Hegarty:
I have an answer.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh my gosh, I'd love to hear it.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah, I think I have an answer. Here's my hypothesis. I think it is a whole plant food with a ton of fiber that would balance all that saturated fat if you eat the shell. I bet there's a ton of fiber in that brown kind of rough outer shell. If you can eat the shell, I bet there's a really good fiber balance in there that might make me consider it to be more aligned to a Plantstrong lifestyle. That's my hunch. I'll look it up later.
Rip Esselstyn:
And also look where they grow. I mean, they grow typically in tropical climates, right?
Jessica Hegarty:
That's right.
Rip Esselstyn:
Where you probably can grow fruits and vegetables and there's used to be fishing. Anyway, it's something to ponder.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah, definitely something to ponder. I love these questions, Rip. That's great. So the takeaway here, electrolytes aside, there's no definitive evidence that coconut water or sports drinks, I'm going to kind of throw them under the bus too, rehydrate you better than water. So I think about athletes who are drinking coconut water, right? They really care about re-hydration. And why do athletes care about re-hydration? For performance, right?
They believe that if they can rehydrate, they can recover faster and thus have some sort of competitive edge. But Rip, I want to tell you something. So studies funded by coconut water companies couldn't prove that they improved performance. So coconut water performed as well as a traditional sports drink, but neither was as good as water. Isn't that interesting?
Rip Esselstyn:
That is really interesting.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Now I will say, I will make the argument that when you're out there on a bike, on a run, doing something for more than an hour, it is important to have something besides just water to fuel yourself. But that's for another discussion.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah, yeah. Another discussion for sure. And let's look into it a little bit more. For those endurance athletes, let's dive into that. But our takeaway for the average person consuming, working out or not, is coconut water a healthy beverage? Nah, it's sugar water with maybe some essential minerals that you can easily get elsewhere. So don't drink your calories. Steer clear of coconut water. My recommendation for those who are working out a lot is after you exercise, drink lots of water and eat whole plant foods. You're going to replenish those electrolytes. So if you're looking for calcium, have a cup of soy milk or some sesame seeds. Rip, aren't oranges also really high in calcium? Am I remembering that correctly?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes. Oranges, absolutely.
Jessica Hegarty:
So that soccer mom who was bringing the orange slices to the soccer game, she was onto something. That's the way to do it.
Rip Esselstyn:
But the other thing we want to do after we work out is we want to replace our glycogen stores. We have a golden 20 minutes if we can take in some nice carbohydrates, our glycogen stores are just super open and super receptive to receiving this and storing it for the next workout.
Jessica Hegarty:
That's great to know. Wow, a 20-minute window.
Rip Esselstyn:
20 minute.
Jessica Hegarty:
Good to know. That's not enough time to get home and prepare a meal. You got to have something ready to go. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Ideally, right.
Jessica Hegarty:
So before we move on, I'd like to also call out for those who are just drinking coconut water, not as like a sports drink alternative, but because they want some sort of flavorful beverage, I'm going to recommend something with proven health benefits. Something like a green tea with a squeeze of lemon or a black tea with some peaches infused in there, or hibiscus tea with muddled berries. I think any of those would be a great alternative if you're looking for flavor.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow, and didn't we just launch some teas yesterday?
Jessica Hegarty:
Maybe. It was. Yeah. But yeah, we did it or those who don't want to drink their calories, but want some additional flavor, whether it's iced or hot, we developed some functional teas that we are really proud of. So yeah, that's a great point, Rip. Thank you [inaudible 00:45:17].
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, sourced directly from Sri Lanka. Some of the best tea at the perfect elevations in very, very fair worker conditions. We really did our research on this one and feel super proud about it.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yes, we did. And some of those unique ingredients, I think about the one I'm most excited to be getting in is the Gooseberry Green Tea. So you know I'm a fan of amla, one of the most antioxidant rich compounds in the world, and we've got it in our green tea. So that'll be part of my afternoon ritual for sure. All right, so I think we have just two or three more coconut products to go through.
Rip Esselstyn:
Hang in there and then we'll take your questions.
Jessica Hegarty:
Rip, coconut sugar, right? I think you even asked me about that.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, I did.
Jessica Hegarty:
It's not a Plantstrong food.
Rip Esselstyn:
Because I could see coconut sugar maybe, but maybe it's just like any other sugar.
Jessica Hegarty:
So let's start by talking about where coconut sugar comes from. So it's actually, there's an incision made in the trunk of a coconut tree and liquid sap is extracted, and it's boiled and boiled and boiled and boiled until most of that water has evaporated. So it's concentrated sweetness without any fiber to curb the impact you're going to see to your blood sugar. It doesn't have fiber to make you feel full. It's not going to blunt those blood sugar spikes. It's not going to have the fiber to carry those phytonutrients.
Remember, nutrients are bound to the fiber. It's very similar to maple syrup in my mind. It's less processed than something like traditional sugar. It has some nutrients. And maybe we can make some small exceptions in small quantities if it's very low on the ingredient list. But my thought is why do we need to do that when there's other better options out there? Do you know where I'm going with this?
Rip Esselstyn:
I do.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah. If you guys don't know this about me, I try to put dates in everything. I love whole dates. I love date powder, which is dried pulverized dates. So that's our recommendation for an alternative. You don't need coconut sugar, just use some date powder. And some people might say, "Isn't date powder also concentrated?" Sure, to a degree, yeah. It's concentrated in the same way that dried fruits are concentrated, but it does have all of that great fiber from dates. We know that dates are one of the most fiber dense foods that we know of, gram for gram more fiber than broccoli, blueberries, some kinds of beans. And it has gram for gram more potassium than a banana. So yeah, you know that's my favorite.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh yeah. It's become mine too.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah. And I want to point out if you are purchasing date powder out there, date powder is also called date sugar. There's really no difference. They're used interchangeably. And how you can confirm if you're unsure, check the fiber. If it's got fiber showing up in the nutrition facts, even in small quantities, then it's dried pulverized dates. That's how you know.
Rip Esselstyn:
Nice.
Jessica Hegarty:
Nice. All right, moving on. Coconut meat. Surely fresh coconut meat, like the whole plant food, is considered Plantstrong, right? No, no. It's better than a coconut cream because it does have some fiber. But I think you agree, Rip, we still think this saturated fat's too high.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. And so many people, they want to add it to their granola or they want to add to their cereal as a little topper. I just find it's easiest to just stay away from it completely.
Jessica Hegarty:
That's right. That's right. So it is a whole plant food. That's true. But is it a Plantstrong food? No, because of the saturated fat, it's still too high. Not a Plantstrong food.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jessica Hegarty:
I don't know many people who are eating or craving just straight coconut meat. But I wanted to provide alternatives for people, for every single one of these products. So if you're craving something that has that crunch and the fat and that slightly sweet profile of fresh coconut, I'd try carrots in a rich nut-based dressing or maybe a bunch of carrots and a few cashews, maybe some macadamia nuts too. Those are kind of forgotten, but have a coconut-like texture that should satisfy your craving.
So Rip, moving on to our last item here, second to last. If fresh coconut isn't a Plantstrong food, then one can probably correctly deduce that dried coconut is not a plant strong food. All those same reasons, same saturated fat, it's got a ton of the water removed. We know that you're increasing the likelihood of over-consumption too, because the stomach receptors aren't stretching and telling your brain that you've eaten enough. You're eating a really calorie dense, high saturated fat food. And of course that's not what we're going for.
So more alternatives, if you want to put it in that granola that you were talking about or use it as a topper, I would use those macadamia nuts. They've really got a nice crunch and kind of a rubbery resistance, very similar to coconut. So that would be my suggestion. And I know that the most common application I've seen of shredded coconut is as a key ingredient in macaroons, those little coconut mound cookies. I found some recipes online for carrot cake macaroons that use shredded carrots with almond flour and raisins. So I'm eager to try that. I think that might be a good option.
Rip Esselstyn:
Jess, let me jump in for a sec, because we're getting a lot of people wondering about the macadamia nuts, and I figured that that might happen. Yes, they are, let's just call a spade of spade here. All nuts are high in fat, right? Doesn't matter if it's almond, if it's walnut, if it's pistachios, they're all somewhere between 80 to 90% fat. And this is why we, again, you've got to know yourself, you've got to know your health condition, and maybe you want to stay away from all nuts. Maybe you can do one ounce or two ounces a day. But I can tell you we don't have macadamia nuts in our house because they would go too quickly. They are like little balls of butter.
I mean, they truly are. And as you said, they've got this crazy mouth feel and texture. So in our house, we typically have some cashews, but we usually only have those when we make a macaroni and not cheese as a substitute for the cheese. And then we also have walnuts. And those are, for the most part, the only nuts we have. I mean, we also have some almond butter for the kids on the sandwiches. So I knew that the macadamia nuts would elicit a certain response. And yeah, so just know yourself and be careful.
Jessica Hegarty:
Thanks, Rip. Thanks for bringing that up. And yes, knowing yourself is really important. And looking at, again, 100 grams of macadamia nuts, 12 grams of saturated fat, nine grams of fiber, compared to coconut that was 30 grams of saturated fat to nine grams of fiber. So are we saying to go eat your fill of macadamia nuts? Absolutely not. Might it occasionally be a good substitute if you really need coconut? I'd say yeah. Evaluate for yourself. That's right. That's right.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Jessica Hegarty:
So Rip, we were talking about coconut shreds and how they still have a lot of the saturated fat, and thinking creatively, I wondered if there was a way to remove some of that saturated fat but retain all of that healthy fiber. If there was a better ratio of saturated fat to fiber, I might consider it to be a Plantstrong food. And I think about the foods out there like the defatted products like PB2, right? That's something that we've talked about before. Single ingredient, defatted, roasted peanuts, that's all that's in there.
Or TVP, right? There's some clean texturized vegetable proteins out there that are just 100% defatted soy flour. So if the fat's extracted, they're still going to have all that fiber. They're still going to have all that protein. From a nutrition standpoint, they're great. What if we did that to coconut? And come to find out-
Rip Esselstyn:
Are they doing it? What?
Jessica Hegarty:
Yes.
Rip Esselstyn:
Oh coconut.
Jessica Hegarty:
So coconut flour is on the market and it makes sense that you have all these companies who are making coconut oil and coconut cream and coconut milk. What are they going to do with all that leftover pulp? They've extracted the fat from it. So historically, this was a byproduct that would go into animal feeds or was simply thrown out, but then some marketing genius was like, "I think I can sell that."
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, and it's gluten free. Why not?
Jessica Hegarty:
It's gluten free. That's right. So coconut pulp has very little saturated fat. It's all been extracted, but it's got a ton of fiber. It's got protein. I was really surprised to see the amount of protein. It's dried at low temperatures, ground into a fine powder, and then it's put in a resealable bag, and we buy it as a fancy specialty item from Whole Foods. So let's take a look at the nutritional. So here's a Bob's Red Mill coconut flour. Two tablespoons is a serving, one gram of saturated fat, six grams of fiber, three grams of protein. I was pretty impressed with this ratio.
Michael, if you want to go to the next slide. So we see that coconut flour for 100 grams has 13 grams of saturated fat and 33 grams of fiber. I like that balance so much better, and I'm happy to report, Rip, that there was actually research done on defatted coconut specifically, and it was shown to have a cholesterol-lowering effect. So knowing this, looking at the ratios, we go where the science takes us, right? Is coconut flour a Plantstrong food?
Rip Esselstyn:
I don't know. I'm still confused. Is it?
Jessica Hegarty:
I think so. Yeah. I think the verdict should read Plantstrong food, coconut flour. Just think so.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, so I would like to experiment with that and see if it can be part of a base for a gluten-free pancake waffle mix.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
That might be nice. So let's experiment with that and see if it passes our Plantstrong sniff test.
Jessica Hegarty:
Let's do it. Let's do it. So takeaway here. Low in saturated fat, high in fiber. Coconut flour has a good amount of protein and is proven to have a positive impact on cholesterol. Jess thinks it's a Plantstrong food. I think it's a great option for those who are gluten free. You can't use it as a one-for-one. Take caution. It's really absorbent, so you can't use it as a one-for-one substitute in baked goods. You need to add more liquid, you need to sift it, but it does impart this subtly sweet taste that I think would be great for pancakes.
You could also use it as a breading, right? I've seen it used in recipes for air fried cauliflower wings, which would be interesting. So yeah, in summary, we've looked at this from all angles, and based on current research, coconut and coconut byproducts are not Plantstrong foods with two exceptions, coconut extract, preferably one that you make at home, and defatted coconut flour. So unfortunately no curries for me. If the science, if there's more studies done and we find something else based on that, Rip, [inaudible 00:58:08]-
Rip Esselstyn:
Good luck. Good luck. Good luck. I think you're really phishing, you're arguing for your limitations here.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Tell me this, Jess, I've seen in the chat box, a lot of people are wondering about coconut aminos.
Jessica Hegarty:
Oh.
Rip Esselstyn:
And my gut tells me there's nothing wrong with coconut aminos, but I would, again, I'd have to look at the nutrition facts panel and dive into that. Maybe you could do a little bit of that right now while we're here. Well, but Jess-
Jessica Hegarty:
What I'm going to look for-
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. No, I was just going to say thank you for delving in and looking into all the different iterations of coconut and if they qualify as Plantstrong products or not. I think it's really interesting what your investigative skills have once again unearthed.
Jessica Hegarty:
Thanks, Rip, I appreciate that. And yeah, just a quick check for those who were curious about the aminos, they don't have any fat. It's zero grams. I think it would be an acceptable alternative salt that might have some trace nutrients that might be more beneficial. I would just caution people, particularly if you have a heart condition, try to make sure that you're not putting a ton of this super salty, basically soy sauce alternative, in whatever it is you're cooking. I would monitor the sodium. I don't think the fact that it's coming from coconut is anything that is cause for concern.
Rip Esselstyn:
Everybody's saying that the slide is a little bit incorrect. I think it's because you had the check marks on the ones that ... and the X ones, Michael, can you go back to that?
Jessica Hegarty:
[inaudible 00:59:54]?
Rip Esselstyn:
No, you said you have the check mark next to coconut shreds and coconut [inaudible 00:59:58].
Jessica Hegarty:
Sorry. It is. Man, people are so good. Great job. Yes. Coconut shreds, not a Plantstrong food.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica Hegarty:
Coconut flour, defatted, is a Plantstrong food. Michael, if you're going to use these for some social media or something, I'll send you an updated version that has this. Thank you. Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thank you, Clara D and Catherine, and everybody else that noticed that.
Jessica Hegarty:
Thank you.
Rip Esselstyn:
Jess, we're getting close to our hour here, but would love if anybody can throw any questions out there now that we can pay 100% attention to the chat room. Jess, what coconut product or products do you currently have in your home besides the coconut oil for your makeup remover?
Jessica Hegarty:
We've got some coconut water.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thank you for your honesty.
Jessica Hegarty:
We've got some coconut water.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah.
Jessica Hegarty:
We haven't burned through it all since we've fine-tuned and done all the investigation here though. So it's lingering coconut water. But Rip, as you may or may not know, Evan's specialty is curries. That's what he always made and he's so good at it. But yeah, no more head in the sand curries for me.
Rip Esselstyn:
Well, but I want to ... so knowing Evan, so everybody, I want you to know that Jess's husband is like this rocket scientist. He's so brilliant and he also carries over his brilliance into food as well. He's an amazing chef.
Jessica Hegarty:
Totally.
Rip Esselstyn:
Jess and Evan make such an amazing couple. But I bet you if anybody can make a curry work without actually using coconut milk, it's Evan.
Jessica Hegarty:
He does, and we use those nut butters, and we use soy milk and coconut extract. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Got it.
Jessica Hegarty:
Did we see any questions come in?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Yes. So Nancy is concerned, Jess, your skin is an organ and it will absorb the coconut oil.
Jessica Hegarty:
That's a really great point. To be honest with you, Rip, if I'm using it as a moisturizer on my lips, I'm very careful not to ingest it. I don't even want those trace amounts. So yes, your skin is an organ. It's true. I'm not worried about it getting into my blood though, which I think is the biggest issue, but maybe I'll look into that.
Rip Esselstyn:
So Mike wants to know, is coconut water not a good hydration? I would say, Mike, you know what? Even if it is, it's just empty calories, right? It's just sugar water, as Jess said about five times. Just do water. Just do water. And then if you want to flavor it, take a little lemon, lime, strawberry or something like that and put it in there. Yeah.
Jessica Hegarty:
Yep. That's great.
Rip Esselstyn:
Let's see here. What are good non-dairy dry milk options that would be useful for cooking and baking? Do you see it?
Jessica Hegarty:
Oh man, I do. Robert, my recommendation for you would be to hop on Amazon. There are a number of brands that have re-constitutable plant-based milk powders. I think of brands like Joi, J-O-I. There are a number of them on Amazon. That's where I would do. They've got cashew, they've got oat, they've got almond. All great options.
Rip Esselstyn:
What about, so Michael Bodco says, "Amla in your green tea?"
Jessica Hegarty:
Yes. Amla, aka Indian Gooseberry, is the gooseberry in our gooseberry green hot tea.
Rip Esselstyn:
An antioxidant powerhouse.
Jessica Hegarty:
Amla's incredible. We should do a Facebook Live just on amla, Rip. I'll be ready for that. It's incredible. Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
All right. Do you have any recommendations for yogurt if coconut is a no-no and the nuts are high in fat?
Jessica Hegarty:
Yes, I do. Marley. Marley, I love how interactive. I remember you from previous episodes. My recommendation is a soy-based yogurt that you make from home using soy milk that only contains soybeans and water. So there's a really easy stove top recipe where you can use half a carton of any yogurt with a whole 32-ounce container of soy milk. It's a recipe from my mother-in-law, and it's this incredible protein-dense, pure soy-based yogurt. So, recipe coming. Recipe coming.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Judy wants to know if the teas are organic.
Jessica Hegarty:
Oh, that would be a great question for our COO. They are not organic, but they are single origin from one place and I think ... let's-
Rip Esselstyn:
There's a whole song and dance around organic tea and why it's a little bit of a smoke and mirrors act. And our tea is, again, I'll tell you right now, there's nothing like it. And we will share some videos online where it's sourced, so you guys can understand the extent to which we have a tea that is unlike any that's out there. I want to end, Jess, just reading this from Kathy Sloan, and then we got to hop. But Kathy says, "I love curry too and think that Ann and Jane taught me about soy milk and coconut extract in place of coconut milk. I am not a big lover of coconut, but my bestie seems to gravitate to anything high in saturated fat. It's so hard to watch since she has all of the food-related diseases, I'm hoping to show her your slides to show her the health risks. Thanks for all this information."
Couldn't agree with you more. Jess, you brought it as usual. So much great information, because like Kathy said here, we want to remove the wool that's over people's eyes and shine the light onto all things coconut.
Jessica Hegarty:
Definitely. Yes, and thank you, Kathy, and good luck.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. All right, Jess, will you hit me with a little Plantstrong fist bump there? Hey everybody, you guys have a fantastic weekend, and as always, keep it Plantstrong. Isn't Jess just a wealth of knowledge? I so appreciate her in-depth research and I know that you do too. We'll be sure to link up the episode resources at planstrongpodcast.com. So in the meantime, don't go cuckoo for coconuts, but do keep it Plantstrong.
Thank you for listening to the Plantstrong podcast. You can support the show by taking a quick minute to follow us wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. Leaving us a positive review and sharing the show with your network is another great way to help us reach as many people as possible with the exciting news about plants. The Plantstrong Podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Lori Kortowich, Amy Mackey, Patrick Gavin, and Wade Clark.
This season is dedicated to all of those courageous, truth seekers who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth. Most notably, my parents, Dr. Caldwell B Esselstyn Jr. and Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks for listening.
