#277: Giving Thanks with an Esselstyn Family Q&A
This holiday season, Rip, Jane, Ann, and Essy come together for a heartwarming and informative Q&A session that celebrates the power of plant-based nutrition— perfect for this time of gratitude and togetherness.
In this episode, you’ll discover:
Insights from Dr. Esselstyn on preventing and reversing heart disease through nutrition.
The incredible benefits of leafy greens and nitric oxide for cardiovascular health.
Inspiring stories from the Esselstyn Foundation’s mission to educate and empower communities toward healthier choices.
Thoughtful reflections on daily habits and the role of compassion in dietary decisions.
Join us as we explore how to embrace a PLANTSTRONG lifestyle and make choices that nourish not only our bodies but also our sense of community and well-being.
Episode Resources
Watch the Original Episode on YouTube (from September 2023)
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Full Episode Transcription via Transcription Service
[0:00] I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
Thanksgiving Wishes
[0:05] I'm wishing you all a big, wonderful, happy Thanksgiving to all of our friends. I sincerely hope all of you, no matter where you live, are enjoying time with loved ones and serving up some amazing PLANTSTRONG food. We are so thankful to all of you for making the PLANTSTRONG Podcast a part of your routine And because it's such a family-oriented day, I'm sharing a Facebook Live that we did last year. It's a Q&A with the whole Esselstyn clan, Jane, Jane's husband, Brian, Ann, Essy, better known as Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. All that is coming up right after this message from PLANTSTRONG.
[0:57] I have a big surprise for you today. I've got basically the whole Esselstyn family. I've got Ann, I've got Jane, I've got Essy, and I've got Brian Hart. Thank you for joining us today. And in the chat, let us know if you like artichokes, right? Yes or no to artichokes. I know, Ann, Ann and Essy, growing up, it seemed like we had artichokes all the time with hollandaise sauce. Yes? No, we just used to have it with. Well, yeah, we did. But now, you know, I like them just plain.
[1:41] And if you have to have a sauce, I think walnut sauce is good. Hmm well but just to let everybody know back in the day we would make this sauce with pure butter and uh it was kind of it was it was a family tradition back in the day but now we've developed new family traditions that we're very very obviously, happy with and we've been doing for annanessi over 35 years when i first brought brian home um one of the first meals we had around the lazy susan had artichokes was it i didn't remember and Did you know how to eat them? I probably had never had them. I think you didn't. We have had more people that don't have a clue what to do. They look like dinosaur food. I mean, they do. They look like dinosaurs would eat these things. They look like little armadillos or something. But you get through the leaves, and then you get to the artichoke heart. Do you love artichoke hearts, Ann and Jane and Essy and Brian? Absolutely. Love them. Favorite part. I have a new thing that I absolutely love and that is to get frozen artichokes, and put some little frozen artichokes in my morning cereal. Oh my God. You're taking your Ann's savory cereal bowl to the next level. Oh, good.
[3:02] Oh my gosh, mommy. Yeah. Everybody's going to be totally convinced when they try it. As Brian calls it, the witch's brew keeps evolving. Yeah. Hey, Brian, you know, I don't think I've had you. I know I've had you on the podcast, but I don't know if I've had you on a Facebook, Friday live with the gang. No, first time I'm honored. I'm honored.
[3:30] We're honored, but would you mind letting everybody know kind of what it is that's taking up your time these days with the Esselstyn Foundation and the great work that you're doing? Yeah, it's great work. Absolutely. So about about five years ago, as many of you may know, but some of you might not know, we started something called the Esselstyn Foundation, and it is a 501c3 public charity, which is supported by public donations. And we partner with existing nonprofits all over the country and sometimes even the world. So that's, you know, schools, hospitals, public health initiatives, lots of different organizations and affiliations, any sort of group that's sort of nonprofit oriented. And we give all of our programming away for free and we do virtual online education about plant-based eating. everything from the why of plant-based eating to the how, how do you do it? You know, what are the best moves, best tricks, ways to transition, getting your family involved, all these different things. And so again, all of our programming is free. And if you reach out to the Esselstyn Foundation, we would love to partner with you. Give me an example of...
[4:47] Somebody that you've partnered with recently that's been really exciting. Fantastic. So many. So just a couple of weeks ago, we partnered with Delaware Valley University, and we are doing a series of presentations to a group of physicians assistants students. So these are students that are becoming physicians assistants. and this is an opportunity for them to and as you as we all know the medical community is not so much up to date on this whole notion of plant-based eating and so we're really helping to educate the next generation of practitioners who can go out there and who truly understand preventative medicine and the power of plant-based nutrition and the fact that it should be something that is an option that is offered to people who have lifestyle related diseases and and possibly to avoid all the horrible things like all the medications and operations they would have to have versus just transitioning to a whole food plant-based diet. So that's one group. The other group we're really excited about is the Environmental Protection Association. Their office in Philadelphia, which is a regional office.
[5:56] Have partnered with us and we're helping them, people who work for the EPA, to get healthy. Wow. I mean, that is... Tell about that. Well, that's kind of that's that's kind of putting your values where your mouth where your mouth is, you know, the EPA, because as we all know, and we've said this many, many times, that if you're a true environmentalist, then you really need to go plant-based. Absolutely. And you would be amazed how many people who work for the EPA are sort of not so educated about the power of plant-based nutrition and its effect on on the environment, not to mention human health. And so like many people, and again, what's so exciting is that we give all this away for free for people who team up with us. So we're excited about it. And, you know, and Brian, you do a wonderful job sending out, I think it's a weekly or bi-weekly newsletter. Weekly. Weekly. Fantastic. So I think this is really great information that you're sending out. And what I love about it is it's kind of bite-sized information.
[7:00] That is, is very palatable and really like, wow, I didn't know that. Where can people, where can people, what's the best way that people can go and sign up for the newsletter? Sure. So you just go to our website, www.esselstynfamilyfoundation.org, and you go to the contact spot and it just says, you know, would you like to sign up for our newsletter? You just check the box and then your email goes into our, our, our list. And then we send it out. We've got about 6,000 subscribers right now that we're sending it out to. And then we try to advertise it also on social media so people can have access to it that way. And that's all free. And then of course, we love it when people want to contribute something. Well, people love that four-letter word free, right? Yeah. Definitely. They do. And what we do in the newsletter, we really try to take on a lot of the little questions that come up for people who are transitioning to whole food plant-based, who are perhaps worried about their B12 levels. Will they get enough protein? What about calcium? You know, what are some good ideas of ways to eat your leafy greens? You know, all that stuff we covered in the newsletter. But the newsletters are bite-sized. They're like onboarding information. They're for different learning styles or information, a picture, a video and examples. It's short. It's just so digestible. yeah it is ones that just blew my mind well all of them do i can't wait for tuesdays.
[8:30] What's coming but one of them was a book was uh how and i didn't realize it how what is that oil palm oil palm oil is everywhere and i hadn't even realized quite how much until this newsletter and then i started looking and i was like oh my gosh it's taken over yeah well hopefully hopefully Hopefully, Brian, you've educated the people at the EPA about the dangers of palm oil. Yeah, I hope I have. I hope they've got it. In more ways than one. Hey, Jane, I got a question for you. So who is a better chef, you or Brian? Brian wears the crown. No, maybe in the old days, but Jane's, you know, she's upped her game. Well, that's the nicest things you've ever said.
[9:20] Jane, you've had lots of practice the last several years between pumping out, you know, recipes for my book, Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease. Recipes you get you're doing your own book i mean literally probably close to 750 recipes five books in 11 years so yeah we've got a lot of a lot of practice going on um and i brought but brian is brian has that sort of six cents and he's willing to like like i kind of have a little bit of mommy in me like i'll add the whole onion i'll add the whole zucchini brian's like no this is the amount you need this is the color you need this is the it's too it don't don't don't don't add that little quarter cup of dressing because it's in the bottle keep it in the bottle the dressing the salad is perfectly dressed i am horrified of what brian has he has good accelerator and good brakes i'm just like all in like mommy yeah hey everybody as you've noticed, Essy has been extremely loquacious this whole time as usual.
[10:29] He's such a great listener but but Essy how important are leafy greens on a daily basis for people with heart disease.
[10:38] Well, there's no question that everybody who has heart disease has to begin to understand the causation of the illness. And the causation is over a period of decades, they have so sufficiently trashed, injured, compromised, and turned their endothelial system into an absolute train wreck that their endothelial system is not able to make sufficient nitric oxide, which is the magic gas that protects us all from making blockages or plaque. And it's going to be really a moment of exciting education because once people can grasp the simple concept of the relationship between your endothelial cells lining the inside of the artery and the fact that they produce this magic gas of nitric oxide that protects us all. And the only reason that everybody on the planet Earth has cardiovascular disease is because in the previous decades, they have now, they themselves, not hereditary, not stress, they themselves have eaten the foods that have destroyed the ability of their endothelial cells to make nitric oxide. Let me ask you this, Essy. How confident are you that if somebody comes to you with heart disease and they have been trashing their endothelial cells, they've been eating the standard American diet of all the contraband that you recommend that they eliminate, how confident are you that you can either A, prevent or B, reverse their heart disease?
[12:08] Well, with their cooperation and their willingness to do it, 100 percent. 100 percent. Rip, Jane and I in the grocery store ran into a woman who stopped us because she ran into six people, actually. But this person said that her sister-in-law had to have open heart surgery, didn't want it, just followed the essay's program. She's perfect. Well, her daughter said, why don't you try eating like the Eagleston's the way that the Eagleston's the kid was telling her mom, don't have surgery. Do what funny Aunt Sharon does. So so that that absolutely tickles my funny bone hearing the Eaglestein. So what are some funny ways that people have pronounced our last name? I can tell you that I had a guy, I had a guy in college and he'd always take attendance and he'd say, rip a Sesselstyn, a Sesselstyn. He'd like add like five unnecessary S's. And then, of course, I had my swim buddies that were sitting next to me and they just all giggle every time.
[13:20] Esselstyn, you get Esselstyn a lot. Esselstyn. Eggleston. Eggleston. Eggleston. There you go. I just want you to know that this so loquacious man is incredibly loquacious. If you were in our house, your ears would be just, you want to wear ear defenders because he's on the telephone all day long talking to patients. Well, Essy, what is it they say about passion?
[13:50] Oh, passion is a feeling. Oh, you mean a passion is a feeling you feel when you feel you're about to feel a feeling you've never felt before. And I have a feeling that you feel that passion every time you're talking to somebody about heart disease. That's right. He's acting as if this is the first person he's ever said this to. I know. It's absolutely, it's remarkable. It's so cool.
Women in Plant-Based Eating
[14:16] Jane and Ann, I mean, how has your life changed since you wrote Be a Plant-Based Woman Warrior, Jane and Ann?
[14:29] It hasn't really changed so much as that I really like how Ann and Jane, we as women, have a platform that is really beautifully sort of founded on how we eat as women. So it's a little more just it's more of the same but we get to frame it a little bit differently and things we like and mommy has got something for you here and they're shucking yeah yeah, wonderful wonderful things and this is one of the things we're gonna be having corn i love it just so you guys know i am reading comments and i'll come and i'm gonna circle back to some of these uh questions because uh su i know i'd love to answer some of them okay i've been plant-based for eight years. Suddenly my cholesterol has elevated above 200. Any suggestions to get it back down quickly? Essy, what do you think? Well, let's find out what she's eating. You know, it really, it comes down to that, doesn't it? Absolutely. So what would you recommend that she do? Keep a little food log for a week or two? Well, I think the things that we've always liked to try to be cautious about, of course, that raise your cholesterol are.
[15:38] Oil, anything with a mother or a face, animal protein, meat, fish, chicken, fowl, turkey, and eggs. Also dairy, lemonade, milk, cream, butter, cheese, ice cream, and yogurt. And be careful of the sugary drinks, Diet Colas and Pepsi, and sugary foods, cakes, pies, cookies, stevia, agave, excesses of maple syrup, molasses, and honey. And be a little easy on nuts and peanut butter and nut butters, cashew sauce, and avocado. Why do I have the feeling you've said that maybe twice before? 15 times a day. All right, here, we got a new question for you, Essy. In one of our previous Q&As that we did at the farm, the subject of stents collapsing over time came up. Can Dr. Esselstyn elaborate a little bit more on this? what is the name of the studies, if any, that you can recall? Well, I think increasingly what people are aware of is the fact that when you take a human coronary artery and you decide to try to lodge a bare metal stent, this in some people is enough of a foreign body that they develop a thing called.
[16:59] Neo-endothelial hyperplasia. And this neo-hyperplasia, just for people's understanding it, think of it as a foreign body. And what you're getting is a reaction to this foreign body of scar tissue. And when there's enough of this reaction of scar tissue, it can actually begin to occlude and obstruct the stent. Now, what you can do sometimes in those, they can actually go in with sort of like a Roto-Rooter and clean out the stent, and it'll work for another period of time. But you have to remember that, I guess the real bottom line on this, if the stent is anything close to elective, it's not an emergency. Because if you're having a heart attack, and you're in an absolute emergency, a stent can be life-saving.
[17:47] But rather than do these things electively, if you simply treat the causation of the illness aggressively with whole food, plant-based nutrition, we've shown time and time again that these patients do not have to have their stent or, for that matter, even their bypass. Great. All right, I'm going to keep them firing. Do you want to add something? The fact that you have to remember that the stent and the bypass have nothing whatsoever to do with the causation of the illness which is what eating whole food plant-based and nutrition does yeah that makes so much sense so Essy next question can eating more leafy greens and obviously whole food plant-based also help with the little ischemic strokes in the brain.
[18:36] Well, there's no question that when you are eating plant-based and doing it correctly and you've got enough nitric oxide, nitric oxide protects the arteries from becoming thick and stiff or inflamed, protects you from getting hypertension.
[18:53] And the whole business about protecting the brain is the same as protecting the heart. When you're eating whole food plant-based nutrition, you're not going to develop these blockages in the carotid artery going up to the brain. So it's really beautifully simplistic that when you're eating this way, you don't just heal the arteries in the heart. You're going to heal the artery in the brain, the arteries to your liver, the arteries to your intestine, the arteries to your kidneys and your legs.
Breakfast Innovations
[19:24] Right. And we're going to come back to you, Essy, in just one second, but I need to take a break and ask Ann, Jane and Brian, what did you guys have for breakfast this morning? Oh, buy cereal with artichoke hearts. But when you say you're cereal, not everybody knows what Ann's cereal is. What is it? Oats, turmeric, steel cut oats, steel cut oats, turmeric, shiitake mushrooms. Today I had kale. Not kale. I have green spinach, Swiss chard, dandelion grains, greens, grass clippings.
[20:11] Great. And hot sauce and hot sauce. Brian, what did you do? I always have regular oats that I just zap in the microwave for a minute and a half, a bunch of whatever fruit or berries we have, and maybe a handful of crushed walnuts with a little bit of maple syrup and some oat milk.
[20:28] I always have dinner from the night before, so I literally had salad, a few bites of the meal we had last night, which was kind of a Buddha bowl kind of thing. We didn't have much left. And then I had two cookies. Jane, that sounds like the breakfast. I like dinner for breakfast. Yeah. Well, Jane, what? I mean, listen, that's legal. It's okay. So Essy, I know this is a question that you love answering and you get it. This is a woman that says, I use a high fluoride toothpaste. Using a nitric oxide test showed that my level is low. I don't use oil and follow a whole food plant-based diet. My LDL is 100. Could the toothpaste be contributing to my low nitric oxide score? Yeah, because remember, part of the program of getting your nitrous oxide score elevated is what is really happening with the bacteria in your mouth. Because what happens when you are eating mouthwash, when you're eating toothpaste with fluoride, or having public drinking water with fluoride, the man who's done this basic research of this.
[21:42] Nathan Bryan.
[21:46] It's really shown that when you have the mouthwash and you have the fluoride, whether it's in drinking water or toothpaste, you compromise the capacity of your bacteria in your mouth to convert. And for that matter, your gastric acid cannot convert into nitric oxide. Jane and Ann, here's a question for you guys. If you had to choose between soy rice or oat milk, what would be your choice? Soy milk rice milk or oat milk yeah oh this isn't even a there isn't even a.
[22:25] I would read the ingredients in each one oat milk well yeah of course we read the ingredients rice milks add that's oil in most soy is really kind of creamy and rich and i think it's good like brian adds a dash in his coffee because it it it makes it sort of nice and creamy but um I own is kind of my go to for recipes. I don't use I don't drink it or use it in cereal because I have dinner for breakfast. Right. See, this is a question that we get. And a lot of people wish they had this problem. Here it is. My husband has adhered very strictly to plant-based and continues to lose weight. He doesn't need to lose anymore. How can he stop losing? What can he add? Well, he needs more calories. And one of the ways that I've found is easy to have people do this.
[23:21] Most people will really have a breakfast that they enjoy. And let me give you an example. This is his breakfast that he loves, and he would only eat it if there was no cook around. For breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Right. Let's try again. Let's try again without a patient who's troubled, troubled, holding their weight. If they get up at 6.30 in the morning and have a breakfast of old-fashioned Quaker oats, oat milk, raisins, banana, and raspberries, and blueberries, and strawberries, and blackberries. Frozen or fresh. That is an absolutely caloric, dense meal with delicious way of getting your phytonutrients. Then about 10.30 in the morning when you begin. Do you add flaxseed?
[24:15] No interruptions no one forgot the flax that's right, when you begin to get hungry you repeat it but you got to look forward to it this absolutely delicious meal again that's going to give you all these wonderful calories and phytonutrients and that'll resolve any weight loss problem and Essy the two tablespoons of flaxseed meal that you would put in, adds calories so that's he didn't mean to forget that, right? Right. Yeah. Hey, so this is for anybody that wants to answer it. What's your opinion on the need for an algae-based supplement to take to get omega-3s for us whole food plant-based eaters? Whole food plant-based eaters supplements, that's a different conversation in my mind. Well, don't you feel like if you're doing the ground flaxseed meal and a handful of walnuts and leafy greens, more than likely you're getting what you need you are yeah you can always get a blood test and it'll show whether you're optimal, borderline or low and if you're borderline or low uh i'd encourage you to have two tablespoons of flaxseed meal, or some chia seeds and the green leafy vegetables. And if that still doesn't quite do it, then there is the omega-3 algae. Right, right, right.
[25:40] So, Essy, this is somebody that I have the exact same oatmeal as Essy, but I also add cauliflower rice. Getting your greens in. That's clever. Also, tell that person to try just adding greens. Well, that's Justin. But, Ann, cauliflower rice is a green leafy. I know, but you can also do the other. But it's white. I know. It would look pretty. Way to go, cauliflower rice person. Yeah, yeah. Let's see. We got a couple more questions than them, and then we're going to wind it down. You guys have been so generous with your time. Thank you, everybody. Our groceries are in the car melting outside. I know. I know they are. I know they are.
Nutritional Needs After Surgery
[26:28] Essy, let's just try this one. I had gastric sleeve surgery 10 years ago, and I find it difficult to eat enough to get all my nutritional needs met. I have been plant-based for five years. Any recommendations? I'm also postmenopausal, and I'm dealing with osteoarthritis now. A, do you think that she's potentially not getting her nutritional needs met? Well, you can always get your biomarkers to determine whether or not you're getting sufficient vitamins and minerals. But, you know, when those patients are in difficulty because they've got a gastric sleeve, they feel full very quickly when they're eating. So what they have to do is, I think, eat multiple small meals throughout the day. Got it. That makes a lot of sense. We'll never forget the woman who, when she discovered plant-based eating after having gastric surgery. Said that all she wanted to do now because she had confidence that she could handle her eating was to reverse.
[27:38] Because whole food plant-based does give you the confidence that you can eat healthily. All right. Well, we're going to wind it down on the way out. Brian, Jane, Ann, Essy, Do you have a word or a short little phrase that you'd like to say to people as we say goodbye? I'm aiming today to get a little bit of vitamin D, some sun, because in Cleveland, we don't get a lot of sun for about eight months of the year. Wait, Ryan, he must become the new hot spot. We've only had sun. We're not burning. We're not flooding. I said eight months a year. So right now it's a gorgeous day. It's in the low 70s. and I'm going to try to get out and get some vitamin D. So my goal for the day is vitamin D. Love it. How about you, Jane?
[28:28] I love saying onward with plants and love. Love is such an interesting weapon and cure and fix all. I love that. And Jane and Brian, Brian, your shirt has inspired me to ask. You guys started, if I'm not mistaken, like a little merchandise company that's got all kinds of cool stuff. Is that still available if people want t-shirts, cutting boards, sweatshirts? Some friends of ours did, and we just supported them. But yeah, Plants Only Shop. Some really good friends of ours took it over, and we're very thankful for that, Mal and Paul. And so if you go to plantsonlyshop.com, they have all kinds of interesting stuff if you're interested in this merchandise.
[29:09] Cutting boards. Cutting, beautiful cutting boards and all kinds of beautiful stocking stuffers and all those things. Nice. Hey, Essy, how about you? Well, it's so exciting because what I've noticed as my career has gone on, Here we are in the latter part of that career that it's as if the heavens have opened and given to medicine the strongest tool for eliminating chronic illness that we've ever had. Fantastic. Good stuff. Enjoy your weekend, my cruciferous cousins. And don't forget to take advantage of all of our Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals, including early bird pricing on our 2025 PLANTSTRONG Retreats,
Upcoming Events and Promotions
[29:54] the PLANTSTRONG Meal Planner, and our entire food line. For details on these, visit the show notes. And until next week, always, always keep it PLANTSTRONG.
[30:07] The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones. You can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. And Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.
[30:43] Music.
