#275: Bringing the Power of Plants to Your Workplace with Michael Quarshie and David Goldman of Metabite
On today's episode, we introduce the PLANTSTRONG by Metabite Corporate Wellness Program, a cutting-edge initiative designed to enhance workplace health through plant-based nutrition and education.
This comprehensive 12-week program aims to make plant-based living more accessible, ultimately helping companies reduce healthcare expenses while boosting employee well-being.
Metabite founders, David Goldman and Michael Quarshie, share their perspectives on how group coaching and community support can foster sustainable dietary changes. Their insights underscore the importance of collective encouragement in achieving lasting lifestyle improvements.
The episode also spotlights the impressive outcomes from our pilot programs, including:
Notable weight loss
Improved cholesterol levels among participants
Increase in productivity
Increased productivity and job satisfaction
Sizable cost savings for businesses
Interested in bringing the power of plants into your workplace? Visit liveplantstrong.com to learn more or email us at hello@plantstrong.com.
Episode Highlights
00:45 Unveiling the PLANTSTRONG Corporate Wellness Program
05:45 Introducing Metabite by PLANTSTRONG
11:26 The Impact of Plant-Based Eating on Corporate Wellness
21:25 The Genesis of Metabite
32:50 Empowering Change Through Community Support
42:15 Astounding Results! The Impact of Nutrition on Employee Health and Bottom Line
53:25 The Future of Wellness in the Workplace
Rip Esselstyn with David Goldman and Michael Quarshie, founders of Metabite
Episode Resources
Want to Bring Wellness to Your Workplace? Learn more HERE
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Full Episode Transcription via Transcription Service
I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.
Introduction to PLANTSTRONG Podcast
[0:06] For well over a decade, we have poured ourselves into making plant-based living accessible, impactful, and appealing for as many people as possible. And we know that our retreats transform lives, but they can't reach everyone. And while our coaching program has tested many tech partners, it wasn't until we connected with today's guests that we found the right fit to bring PLANTSTRONG to a broader audience in a way that could truly make waves.
[0:42] Today, I'm excited to unveil the PLANTSTRONG by Metabite Corporate Wellness Program. This is a comprehensive wellness program that we have been piloting for years with a manufacturing company with results that are frankly quite jaw-dropping now this program what it does is it fast tracks access to plant-based nutrition education and all the support that comes with it with the goal being to spark a movement towards healthier workplaces by integrating plant-based wellness into work culture. Now, our vision is to partner with companies that are ready to invest in the health of their people using the power of nutrition as the main driving tool that's going going to reduce healthcare costs, boost energy, reduce sick days, and elevate quality of life. We are here to prove how easy and effective it can be to create a ripple of wellness starting right at work. So I would encourage you, pull up a chair and dive into this conversation with David Goldman and Michael Quarshie from Metabite, and let's discover how we're bringing the power of plants into the workplace. And who knows, this could be the spark that opens doors to your company.
[2:09] David and Michael, welcome to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. It's an absolute pleasure to have you guys here. And, you know, first off, David, where am I talking to you from? Are you in Bend, Oregon, by chance? Bend, Oregon, baby. Bend, Oregon, baby. And then, Michael, don't tell me you're over in some far-off land. I am in Helsinki, Finland. Helsinki, Finland. Wow. Incredible. Well, you guys, I want to share some breaking news with you today. I know Michael, or rather David, you're on top of this, but Starbucks just announced today that they're not going to upcharge any longer for non-dairy milks in coffee. How about that? That is awesome.
[2:58] I don't go to Starbucks, but I know a lot of Starbucks plant-based fans are happy about that. What I want to talk about today, though, is really a pretty phenomenal partnership slash collaboration that PLANTSTRONG has had with you guys, specifically around your company called Metabite. Before we dive into that, I want to back up for a sec and talk about each one of you. David Goldman, for those of you that don't know, he's a dear friend to PLANTSTRONG. He is no stranger to the plant-based movement. For those of you that want to go back and listen, he was on episode 117 of the Plant Strong podcast. One of the coolest things that I think that you have done, David, and you've done a lot of cool things, but you were the chief scientific officer for the Game Changers documentary that came out in 2019. And my understanding, David, tell me if this is how you see it, is it is now the most watched documentary on the planet with over 200 million views. Is that what you've heard? That's awesome. I honestly don't know. But what I do know is there was a fantastic firefighter in that film. I don't know if you've seen it. Yeah.
[4:19] Yeah. Yeah. There's David for you guys. But yes. So the game changers. He's very, very modest about it all. But for the last several years, you have been the director of research at at Metabite, which, as I said, is a kind of a new partner for PLANTSTRONG. Michael Quarshie. What a last name. Where does that last name come from, Michael? It's Ghana. My dad's from Ghana. Okay. And what did you say it stands for? Born on Sunday. And were you born on Sunday? No, I was born on Friday, the 13th, but that's okay. Oh, boy. Oh, boy.
[4:57] Now, you're a former defensive tackle in the NFL, turned CEO, and you're now a champion for plant-based health. So, David and Michael, it is a pleasure to have you guys. Let me give the audience a little backdrop here of how we kind of came together. So many of you probably know that for many years, we have been running experimental programs for companies that are interested in injecting plant-based education into their corporates wellness settings. But... Until very, very recently with Metabite, we were never able to find a cost-effective, way to deliver the jaw-dropping results that people achieve at our retreats. And David and Michael, we had the pleasure of hosting you at one of our Black Mountain retreats. I think it was two years ago in Black Mountain. But we've never been able to figure out a way to do it in a way that's cost-effective and also scalable.
[6:01] Ergo, enter you guys and Metabite. And today what we want to do is we want to unveil a really exciting initiative that all of our listeners will appreciate. And potentially, it'll be a good fit to bring this program to your work site. And this can have some potentially next level impact that many of us have been striving for, which is to reach people where they are, equipping them with this lifesaving information and then supporting them and reaching their goals. So with that, with that is kind of the backdrop. Let's dive into you guys. So, David, as a nutrition and exercise scientist, I'd love for you to share a bit about your background and what exactly was it that drew you to the field of nutrition and fitness in the first place?
[7:02] Um, yeah, happy to, happy to share that. So my background is like you mentioned, it's in a, it's an exercise science and nutrition. So, uh, I'm a strength and conditioning specialist and exercise physiologist. I'm a registered dietitian. And so my background is, is, um, spans the gamut in obesity research. I worked at St. Luke's Roosevelt hospital in New York city. It was in, uh, division one athletics in, uh, NCAA, right. It was for Columbia university. I also taught graduate coursework there. I worked in corporate health and fitness at Facebook headquarters in Northern California, and I've worked at clinical inpatient, outpatient facilities like True North Health Center. I imagine you have some listeners who are well familiar with that fantastic establishment. Absolutely. Yeah, it's a great place. Like you mentioned, I was a chief science advisor to the Game Changers.
[7:55] That was such an absolutely fantastic, rewarding experience. And, and yeah, I've also been like a Fulbright specialist and visiting researcher now with the University of Helsinki. So yeah, I've done a whole bunch of stuff in this space. I've really loved it. It's been really rewarding. And mentioned, or you asked what brought me into this field. And it really is personal. It's that I, I used to be obese, and I was tormented for it. And it was, it was really difficult. And so I learned to use exercise and nutrition as tools to reshape my my physique, my athletics, my my health. And it's been really empowering. And so now I just take a lot of pleasure and meaning from using nutrition and exercise as tools to support as many people as humanly possible. How old were you when you decided to really address your personal obesity and jump in? Oh, that's a good question. I think it was right around the age when...
[9:05] I want to say something around junior high school. And that was, you know, right. That's right. When you're, you're so impressionable and, and things that people say can stick and hit. And, and so, yeah, that there was a whole lot of difficulty then. And so, yeah, that was the point where I, I decided I want to begin high school and the rest of my adult life and with that approach. And then how old were you when you, when you discovered plant-based nutrition? And so when I was about five years old, my mom read to me a book called Diet for New America. And so when I was five, I actually became vegetarian. I was vegetarian until I was 20. And then I started eating a whole bunch of meat at 20 until I was 27, thinking that I had to do that in order to be athletic, in order to be strong and fit and have muscle. And that's when I went back to graduate school in that period. And I was like, oh, wow, it turns out I was completely mistaken. I didn't need these things. And in fact, I was actually undermining the things that really matter most to me. So on my 27th birthday, so that's 13 years ago now, I was like, game over for me. I'm starting a whole new game. And that's when I went plant-based 100%. And I'm not looking back. Wow. How old are you now? 40. 40. Wow. You're still a spring chicken. That's great. Or rather a spring piece of kale, curly, curly kale.
The Rise of Corporate Wellness Programs
[10:35] So, Alan, let me tell you this. So, nutrition science, you are like...
[10:44] I talk to people and they say, man, that David Goldman, he is one of the most well-read, knowledgeable people in the field of nutrition science of anybody on the planet. My question to you is, you have decided to partner up with Michael and Metabite, and you want to make a difference in corporate wellness. Why do you think it is that companies are now taking a serious interest in this? That's a great question. And thank you for the compliment, which I don't feel I deserve. But I appreciate that. And you mentioned that people have been saying really nice things. And just tell my mom I say hi, because I feel like she's probably the only one who was saying these things. But I appreciate that. Yeah. You know, so talking about corporate wellness and plant-based eating. And I just want to run us back a few years now to a wonderful set of publications. This was Dr. Neil Barnard from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. And he was trailblazing.
[11:45] He researched the effects of plant-based eating on a whole bunch of really relevant outcomes. They did this at Geico, I think multiple Geico locations. And they found that when people were eating this way, a whole food plant-based diet, they experienced weight loss. They had drops in LDL cholesterol, the bad cholesterol. They had improvements in their hemoglobin A1C, right? This is sort of a measure of blood sugar control and how close or far away are you from diabetes. Physical functioning improved. So those are a bunch of the physical health components. There are also a whole bunch of mental health improvements that people reported, including there's better energy, higher quality sleep, more vitality. There was less depression, less anxiety, less fatigue. And then also on the actual work front, the productivity side of this, and this is where I'll get right directly to your question, is that people were more productive.
[12:45] You know, there was between a 40 and 46 percent drop in health related impairments in productivity. And people had those gains in productivity both at work and at home. And so when you're asking, why are people taking such an interest in improving the diet and lifestyle elements of their employees, they recognize there are real serious returns on investment for investing in the people who are investing their time into growing your business and making your venture fruitful. So it's really a two-way street and the numbers are in and it's compelling. And I think people are starting to take notice of this. And when they're really forward thinking and looking ahead to how can I really grow my business in the long term, they can see these numbers. They're impactful. Right. So you specifically, you know, tell me how your research has specifically shaped this wellness program, particularly around group coaching and kind of meeting people where they are. Yeah. So the group coaching, it's it's incredible. You know, I.
[14:01] Obviously, we have the option to work with groups. We can work with individuals. It's so much more compelling, so much more effective to work with groups, it seems, than individuals. When people take on these challenges with comrades, it changes the whole experience. People learn from each other and people are inevitably going to struggle. And this support goes such a long way. So rather than sort of have a, you know, like a parent come in and try to have the kids all do the right thing, rather you orient the kids so that they're motivating each other. I do this, I'm a 10 and nine year old who I do this with all the time, where if I try to just point them in a particular direction, it's a completely different situation than if they're driving and they don't feel alone. And sometimes they can look at the health professional and say, yeah, but you must have already figured all this out. And I'm just new to this. Well, that's great. Let's bring you side by side with other people who are in really similar situations to you. So you don't feel alone so that you feel like when you have questions, you're not the only one who has the questions. You can turn to your support community and really gain from that. And then when you mentioned meeting people where they're at, yeah, that's absolutely a tenet of of.
[15:21] You know, our is foundational to our approach where, you know, a long time ago, I used to write these diet plans for people, they were prescriptive. And someone, you know, they'd say, I need to lose such and such amount of weight, or I have to improve my cholesterol or blood pressure, whatever, can you write out what I need to do? And I used to do it. And it's just, it's just not worth it. People would experience fast changes, no question about it. But they just invariably, they would not last. No matter how good the diet plan is, it's because we need to have autonomy, We need to have agency. And so what we do here is we take a more adaptive approach. So, you know, you can think about when someone, I don't know, on New Year's, let's say that's around the corner-ish.
[16:01] People will go all in, they'll go real hard. And then at some point they're like, ah, enough is enough. And they go back to, they throw in the towel. It's like a different version of themselves. They're like, I'm in like go mode. And then I'm in my, like, this is the real me. That's like their baseline. And we actually want to change the baseline. We actually want to change like when you're done trying so hard and you just sort of revert back to like the version of you that, you know, we want to mess with that. And we want to change their baseline so that their.
[16:33] Usual experience where they don't feel like they're walking through mud to get to their goal. We want that experience to be one that they enjoy and is actually helping them be healthier and happier. And so that's what we're aiming at. We're aiming at this adaptive approach. We're using an adaptive approach where we look at progress, not perfection. And we help people incrementally make these changes that really add up to really significant, meaningful improvements that can help people come off of meds they don't want to be on, avoid surgeries they don't need, be more productive at work, happier and healthier with their family, just better quality time all around. So that's really how we're using this approach to meet people with, you know, yeah where they are and give me give me give me an idea of the like what's the how many years and what's the sample size of people that you've been working with to kind of get all these learnings that you're now able to apply in the the Metabite practice i mean i've been in this field uh for for decades um i mean ever since i graduated college i've been working in this domain i've been working with Michael, uh, with Metabite, um, and meal logger, which was the predecessor.
[17:46] Um, from since before I even met my wife, it's been, what is it like a decade and a half now? So it's been a long time. We've been working with a lot of different groups. Um, we've been, you know, in, uh, in Silicon Valley, we've been in, um, uh, college settings. We've worked with athletes. We've worked with, um, health professionals. We've worked with, um, you know, management and all sorts of different. So, I mean, tons, Michael, maybe you can speak more to the actual sheer numbers and the volume of who we've worked with. Before, because I'm going to go to Michael right now, but first, how did you meet Michael?
[18:21] Oh, uh, so this was at Columbia university. Uh, Michael was an athlete there. And, uh, when he graduated and was trying to make help, help the athletes eat better to support their performance. And that was at the time I was working in strength and conditioning, um, and also in sports nutrition there. And so Michael came back with this tool and he was saying, Hey, I, I think we can really help these athletes, you know, we'll have them photograph their meals and we'll offer some nutrition counseling and we can see how we can you know improve their performance and and help them with their health later on in life too and i i uh an incredible connector named tommy sheen he was the the hit i think he still is the head strength coach there um he connected us and uh we we became buddies real fast and and all right well hey Michael let's let's shut up dave uh of David for just a little bit here and turn the microphone over to you. So how did a former player for the Oakland Raiders and a political scientist from Columbia University get inspired to start Metabite, a health tech and research firm? I mean, what was the driving force behind that?
[19:31] Yeah, definitely. So, I was a late bloomer, a little chubby as a kid, kind of like David, and I started sports when I was 15, and I realized that, you know what, I'm a bit behind, I need to catch up.
[19:46] And so, I wanted to really know everything that I could about how to improve my performance when I started football. I was 15 at that point. And so I was just really putting a lot of time and effort into training and my nutrition. I actually had a shoulder injury and I had a dietician work with me on the recovery side and reduce my inflammation to speed up the recovery. And I noticed how effective that was. And so by the time I got to Columbia, we implemented this pilot program using some of the things that I was using at the time with Tommy Sheehan, who David mentioned. And so that was really the start. It was really about, you know, a very selfish reason. How do I improve my recovery and my performance? And then as a poli-sci major, I'm so passionate about impact. It was very quick to see that beyond athletics, which is a great way to open doors and get people's attention, there was a much wider need for scalable nutrition coaching tools on the healthcare side, especially when we started, there wasn't a way to get coaching. So, you know, if you're an athlete, you know, if someone started working with you on your technique, for example, on stroke, they wouldn't just give you a rundown of what it is and then wish you good luck and, you know, show you where the pool is. They'd work with you step by step, which is the idea of using images. And so we kind of built this coaching program. And David was actually the first dietitian in the U.S. to start using it. And he knocked it out the park. He started seeing awesome results. And that's how it got started. it.
[21:15] So David, you can smell a good thing when you see it. That's good. When did you officially launch Metabite? So Metabite is now two years old. We had the old platform that David talked about, meal lager, and that's been used on the healthcare side. But we also realized when we started this that, hey, there's so many things in what dieticians do that can and need to be automated. And so I actually had a really close friend of mine from football who was working on image recognition for a company that analyzes cancer biopsy samples. And he's been an advisor for years. And so he helped us make sure that we built a database that allowed us to really collect this information in a way that can be used for AI, which is now finally at the point where we can really do this in a scalable, effective way. And so it was really based on the work we did previously in health care that we're now applying to this new platform, which offers tremendous scalability. Yeah.
[22:17] Was there a turning point when you went from meal lager and working with individuals where your focus went to corporate wellness as a solution to improve health outcomes and reduce costs for companies?
[22:35] Yeah, it was during the pandemic. We knew already that the data would allow for these tools to develop. It just wasn't right there. And then during the pandemic, when you saw how healthcare got into a crisis, that was just really like a good turning point. And so we knew that that's what we wanted to do, and we started doing pilots. And then when we got connected through a mutual investor that we knew, that was just the perfect time to start applying it on the corporate wellness side. Because healthcare is still in a place, and you both know this quite well, where unfortunately the incentives are not always aligned to offer some of these nutritional services. And which we know are impactful, but the incentives just aren't there. So we knew that we needed to start working with payers, specifically companies, because like the benefits that David talked about, that's where the savings are. And it's not just the cost savings on the healthcare side. There are other benefits in terms of productivity and the impact that has on your family and your community, not to even mention what happens with the environment. So there's so many benefits and you got to figure out who's really going to benefit the most, and it tends to be companies. So that's why we were actually kind of looking for the right partner. Right, right.
[23:49] Well, and so speaking of kind of our collaboration and our partnership.
[23:56] I'd love for you to just let the listeners know, how did the idea for collaborating with PLANTSTRONG come about from your vantage point? I guess one thing to point out is that the focus we have on promoting whole food, plant-based diets goes back to David. So we met back when, you know, he was working with athletes and, and he did a wonderful job working with those athletes. And we started noticing that a lot of the healthcare customers we were working with were promoting whole food, plant-based diets, not the same way David was, but there were clear similarities. And David has actually published with the ACLM on this. But as we started noticing that trend, you know, and I noticed, I paid a lot of attention to what David was doing because he's so good in what he does, he kind of convinced our whole team. He convinced not just the team that works in this bar, investors. We knew that this is the direction we wanted to take the company to really drive the kind of impact that we wanted to bring about. And so... As that mission started forming, you know, we got introduced through that mutual connection.
[25:04] David was the one who really helped shape that on our end because there are a lot of things that we need to understand. How do we focus this and how do we align everything internally? And so David has done a massive amount of work. And so when we met Rip and then Laurie Kortowich, which was just wonderful, your whole team. I mean, that trip to Black Mountain, the emotional intelligence, we kept talking with David about that in your group is off the charts. It's like the environment, the feeling, and just the learnings were incredible. But so, yeah, it was really just understanding how do we take that magic and put it in such a shape and form that it's easy for people to consume and really get access to it. Because a lot of times we already have the information that's necessary. But then how do we help people structure their environments and form the connections like David was talking about? There's data on that. I can get to that later. But that's really kind of from our end. And it was David helping us understand how to take some of your magic and then put that into our solution, our service and joint service. Hey, David, so how hard did you have to sell Michael and the board or whoever you had to on Whole Foods plant-based?
[26:22] You know, it's funny. I think meal lager, correct me if I'm wrong, Michael, we used to call meal lager agnostic, right? Is that the word you used to use? Diet agnostic. The health professional gets to decide what they want to do. Yeah. But I mean, it's so clear to me that the jury is in, that this is the way to do it, that this is the health. It's not like just having a different opinion. Like, you know, some people think a carnivore diet is great and some people think a plant-based diet is great and there's room for everyone to have their own opinions and at the end of the day we can, I mean, it's like, I think I just really needed to present the evidence, which I did, to Michael. Michael mentioned the publication I had with the American College of Lifestyle Medicine where we combed through clinical practice guidelines from so many organizations I mean everything that was available and really the consensus was clear that, big surprise eating more fruits and vegetables and whole grains and beans these are the sorts of foods that are really are recommended to support our health and our well-being and so really Michael was wonderfully receptive and when he took that when he i think became extremely clear of the um consensus and how clear those data are he he jumped right in so it actually was a hard sell nice um so.
[27:49] This question is for David. And Michael mentioned, you know, you guys walked away from that Black Mountain retreat and you were remarking on how there, you know, there's a certain magic in the air. Right. And the environment that we were able to create there, the emotional IQ that the whole team had. And so I think, you know, David, one of your jobs has been how do you how do you try and integrate that PLANTSTRONG philosophy that you guys got a really nice taste of?
[28:19] Into the program so that you can ensure that people aren't just learning, but they're also able to transform their health, you know, through these real practical changes. Yeah. So that whole experience at Black Mountain was extraordinary for me. And I'll do my best to recreate some of the PLANTSTRONG philosophy. Tell me if I, um, but I mean, for me, one of the things that was so clear that, that people were taking on really meaningful challenges. Um, you know, there's so many different things we can choose to take on, um, that are all important, but we're really aiming at health through food primarily, which makes a lot of sense. It's at the crux of our health is the food that we eat. And we're looking to help people build this, you know, one handful of produce at a time, like fruits, vegetables, whatever. We're trying to help people incrementally do this. We're happy for people who are, you know, who want to dive into the deep end. That's great. And a lot of people want to make a slower shift, but that it seems like PLANTSTRONG aims at these really high yield propositions. And we're trying to take on those same ones. Something that stuck out to me beautifully was really the camaraderie at the retreat at PLANTSTRONG. It's very clear. You're not trying to get people to go at this alone.
[29:48] They need to do this with friends. They need to do it with family. They need to get some support, recruit people in their lives to have their back. And we absolutely are looking to embody and embrace that too. I mean, it goes such a long way. And sometimes the people in your immediate surroundings are just not going to be those people and that's okay. You can connect to those people virtually. Yeah. There are a lot of people, you know, even within your own business, you might not even realize they're struggling with the same things. And so we, we want to connect people to other folks who are looking to make those same sorts of meaningful changes. Another thing is that, that whole like aura at the retreat, it's like a celebration, you know, it's like, um, it feels like there is abundance no one's counting calories or carbs or anything like that there is a feeling of like uh, I don't know, of joy. There's no drudgery and like, oh, I'm not going to enjoy today. I'm not going to enjoy these meals. Okay, fine. It's for the weight or whatever I need to lose. And it's just not that feeling. And we're exactly taking that same approach. We want people to not be hungry, eat plenty of food, eat the food that they love, not to feel like they have to just grind it out.
[30:56] You know, that's right at the foundation of what we're doing. It's like, if you're going to make, if you make a change and you're like, oh, I knew I was supposed to do that. I was supposed to have lettuce or whatever but you're like i hated it though we say no take a step back go back to the point where you really liked what you were doing and then let's like bake in the stuff that will serve you but in a way where you don't ever feel like um you're counting down the days until it's over like no this is supposed to be a party not a prison did you want to say something rip you look like no no no no no no no that's good that that's that's that's really really good No, no, I think you expressed all that wonderfully well.
[31:35] And can I add one more thing real quick to that? Yeah. The last thing I just wanted, I mean, I could go on and on, but I'll just say one big thing that is big for PLANTSTRONG, big for Metabite, we very much align is that we want participants to call the shots. You know, we want them to be in the driver's seat. We don't want, like going back to the writing up diet plans, which is painful and useless as far as I'm concerned. I don't think it's productive at all. We want people to take the helm. We want them to be to be really feeling like they are in control of their own lives and that no one's telling them what they need to do. Then they have nothing to rebel against. There's nothing to push back against. They don't feel like mom or dad or whoever is mandating these changes. And I just wanted to say that's another big thing is a sense of agency. than see eye to eye on. And so that's the only other thing I just wanted to mention.
Unveiling the 12-Week Program
[32:26] Yeah, yeah. No, perfect. So with all that being said, I think it is so exciting.
[32:37] That you guys are creating a model that can empower employers to spread this message out, right? Throughout their community. And it just becomes a win, win, win, win. So what I'd love to do right now is let's talk about the program itself.
[32:56] And and I believe it's a it's a 12 week corporate wellness program that you have. I'd love to start with you, Michael. And so let me ask you this. Let's say that you have a company, for example, like Central Pet that actually did the the 12 week program. They got such amazing results that they decided to, you know what, we're going to roll this out to our 7,000 employees. How fantastic is that? But tell the listener, how is it structured and what makes it different from all the other wellness programs that are out there? Definitely. So as you said, Rip, it's a 12-week program and it's aligned with the PLANTSTRONG approach. And one of the key factors is that the user is in the driver's seat of the participant. They get to choose what they want to drive and how they want to drive it. And so it's structured around goals. So there's different goals that you set for yourself. How many servings of fruits and vegetables you want to add, you know, per week. And then you set a goal on how you want to do it. And then you can do a, you know, an analysis. How did you achieve it? You kind of reflect on it. And then there are different themes that go on on a weekly basis. So, you know, you learn how to evaluate yourself, you know, building a support system. And, you know, how do you plan for success?
[34:19] It covers sleep, mood, food, you know, how do you eat on a plant, how do you eat a plant-based diet on a budget? Because those are all things like it's really helping people understand how is it easy and affordable and enjoyable. Those are the critical steps that we want to help people do while they are at the same time getting access to some really powerful tools. For example, you know, there's image recognition on as they log their meals and logging meals is not important for the purpose of logging those meals. The reason why logging meals is so important is because they get to connect with other people. They get to see what they're eating. So with the first pilot that we did with Central Garden and Pet, there was a ratio between four to one in terms of sessions and meals. So people on average were recording four sessions a day, five minutes a session, so about 20 minutes of engagement per day, which is a lot. I mean, we're talking about a health app here, not Instagram. And they were doing that, and that ratio tells you they were doing it because they were connecting with other people. They were commenting on each other's meals, liking, and that's really critical that you find your tribe and you get support because a lot of services will offer like a community element where people just kind of talk. But this is really that you kind of see everyone on their journey. You're doing it together and you have a virtual support group. That's critical. And we've seen that. Right. So would you say that the, one of the.
[35:41] One of the things that kind of separates this program from a lot of other wellness programs is the group coaching element. It absolutely is. So it starts with that curriculum that we've been working on together with you guys. And then having those achievable goals. Again, it's so critical to have achievable goals because people will go in and they'll have all these lofty goals. And that's great. But you want to be able to build on success step by step. And then, again, you can start adding. So you do that with the peer support and then some of the other tools, the image recognition, and then you add the language model where, you know, you get to ask questions and you get answers to it. There are different ways that we then add, you know, scalability to this. But it's putting all these pieces together that really is at the core of it, making sure that we have the right content, the right curriculum for people to follow, get them the support they need, and then give them these new tools that are now available at the right time if they need them. So it's really putting these pieces together because you can think of it like Lego bricks, like all these Lego pieces exist, but it's about, you know, putting them together in the right way for each individual. Hmm. David, since, you know, kind of the group coaching element is such a differentiator for you guys. And it's so incredibly effective. And you touched upon this earlier, but like, what's the science behind that? What does the science tell us about this? And why isn't everybody doing it?
[37:09] Yeah. I mean, it's very clear that group nutrition counseling is more effective than individual nutrition counseling. You know, you're mentioning, like, how would we know this from the, is there scientific evidence to substantiate this? And I would say absolutely. Um, for example, just as an example, um, just in the last few years, there were two systematic literature reviews that were published. Um, the author's last names were Abbott and Street of the two that are coming to mind right now. And they found that in people who had a bunch of weight to lose, um, they lost more weight in group nutrition counseling than they did in individual, uh, nutrition counseling. And the percentage of people who lost a, you know, so-called clinically meaningful amount of weight was greater, again, in the group counseling.
[38:08] There's other research also looking at this in patients with type 2 diabetes. Again, systematic literature review. You're looking at tons and, you know, lots of different studies. This particular paper, Auders, Jewell, and I think it was 2017, they published, again, a systematic review of the literature. And, again, it's more effective. So really, when you take these really prevalent, heavy-hitting chronic diseases that can really sideline people and just diminish their quality of life and the cost of living, and also when that goes to the employer as well, it can be a lot. And so it seems to be more effective to do this group nutrition counseling. It's also more satisfying for people, You know, to be able to help so many more people with, you know, to amplify this message just goes such a long way. It feels wonderful to be able to empower more people. And, you know, it goes back to those same sorts of reasons we were talking about before, about taking on these challenges with people who, you know, to have brothers and sisters in arms as we take on our own health. It matters a lot. And, you know, to learn from each other and that support, it's it's really powerful. Couldn't agree with you more. I mean, I am always amazed at how the bonds and the intimacy that occurs at all of our retreats between the participants.
[39:36] And we wouldn't have the opportunity to have that unless we had a group that came together and made themselves vulnerable and open to the experience. And so I applaud you guys on what you're doing here. You know, one of the aspects that you have tried with some of these experimental groups like Central Pet that has done incredibly well is you have rolled out some of our PLANTSTRONG food products in the program. David or Michael, like how, what kind of a role do you feel like? This plays in helping make it healthier or more sustainable for these employees. I think it's a big role. And so that's something that we were so excited that Central actually wanted to include in their national rollout because these are milestone rewards. People get these by trying different things and so by doing different things in the service and progressing.
[40:47] And it's great because you have a way of rewarding people for doing work, but at the same time, they get to learn something and try something new because these products, they help them on their journey. And so discovering new foods is so important because you're trying to figure out, how do I implement this in real life? And so having things that aren't suddenly available for you that actually help you, you know, what do I eat as a snack? What do I do if I can't, you know, get a certain type of food? And, oh, I can combine this with that. There's just so many things that come out of that. And it's so important to have those examples. It's the same reason why, you know, as an athlete, when you're training, you're watching other people. You're trying different things. Just having those different reference points is so important because a lot of people aren't used to it. It's when you think about what's in our food environment, we have all these other foods that are so readily available and the healthy options are not that easily available. So, you know, providing access to it, I think it's just a wonderful, wonderful thing. And it kind of it's very timely when you think about food as medicine. It clearly is one of those key obstacles for people to learn. What can I try? What do I like? Where do I get it from? So I think it addresses a really key problem. Yeah. Well, and you just mentioned food as medicine. And just as a little aside, we partnered with a company called TrueMed last year. And so 100% of our food line is now eligible for HSA, FSA reimbursement. That's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. So that's really, really cool.
[42:16] Let's talk about the impact on employee health and any potential corporate savings that can happen here. You know, if I am one of the higher ups at, let's say, the, amco corporation uh and and i'm interested in looking at this my first thing is what's the roi in something like this like how can this company not only improve the health of of my employees but also what kind of long-term savings can i expect especially in terms of health care costs because if it's if it's compelling i'm signing on the dotted line like today so what have you guys seen?
[43:00] Yeah, so we, I mean, in terms of like the, for those who reported the outcomes, we had average weight loss of 5.8%, you know, we had a 7% drop in cholesterol. And again, now we're talking about not people at retreats, because your retreats are magical. We're talking about people doing this in their daily lives. And so you take those learnings and what we're currently actually doing, Dr. Marbas, who is the chief medical officer, we've put together an and, you know, an estimate of what those savings are. And we're talking about, you know, up to $7,000 per employee. And so those savings are significant. And so, again, it depends on the individual. What is that? Per year, per year. But when you think about, again, up to. So that depends on, again, we're talking about averages here. So, you know, some people, you know, might have comorbidities. And it's something that we're actually working on collecting. And so maybe David wants to talk about his PhD a little later. But this information in terms of what the average savings are exists. And so by putting that together and by looking at results, you can start getting some of that, you know, what it could be in that range. And it's somewhere between, you know, $5,000 to $7,000 per employee by getting certain results. And so that's actually something that we're collecting data on and we'll be able to talk about it more later. But the initial results have been really exciting. I like that a lot. And what have you found as far as...
[44:21] So let's say I have 100 people that sign up to do the program because we all know that there's recidivism and stuff like this. If you have 100 people sign up, how many people are there at the end of still standing after 12 weeks? So we were talking earlier about the kind of programs that we've run in different places. So we've had over 11,000 groups total. And when we look at these different groups, and they're different types, like some of them are small groups, some of them are large groups. But when we look at the group coaching, on average, we're talking about 70, 75 percent of completion. And there's always things that happen, like life happens in some of the pilots that we've just had. Unfortunately, the hurricanes have had an impact. And so there's a lot of things that can impact people. But in that range, it's usually what we see.
[45:07] David, is there anything you'd like to add to that as far as any health benefits that employers can see? Yeah. I mentioned before the reduction in health-related productivity impairments. So when you cut that nearly in half, you get a whole lot more worker time and effort and energy, and that goes a really long way. I think that that also helps shift the culture of the place where you're working, where people are maybe more inclined to take some walking meetings or to, you know, their lunch break. You know, it's a different look and a different feel that creates a sense of anxiety.
[45:57] You know, it's like a team. And I think when people are here trying to support each other and, you know, like you were mentioning, we've been doing this with Central Garden and Pet and, you know, these are a lot of people who are having their lunches together. And I think it can unify these employees in a way that goes even beyond just how many sick days do you need to take. And by the way, I'm all for taking sick days. I'm all for it, but I don't want to take when I'm actually sick. so uh the good news is i think that that people will end up showing up and being more productive at work and when they actually do take time off it's not just so that they can get back to to even so where they began it's rather you know to really um yeah have a greater sense of uh enjoyment in life well you know and just to just to chime in on that just from my own personal experience and this was a, um, you know, me at the firehouse fire station too, but, you know, we created this culture for a good six years, uh, where any firefighter that came in, they knew that this was the, you know, the PLANTSTRONG culture.
[47:03] And there was something about all of us rallying behind this, eating this way, working out together that we just created this culture of wellness and, after a couple of years, everybody wanted in, everybody wanted part of it. So it's incredible how attractive something like this wellness can become. And I think it's really important that people understand, you know, you guys, you have the system in place. Like we, we know, we know what it is. It's just a matter of how do we, how do we implement it in a way where people don't feel isolated, they don't feel alone, they don't feel like the weirdo.
[47:45] And you guys have provided all the tools and resources. It's beautiful. Michael, I'd like to know from you, so where do you see this PLANTSTRONG by Metabite program going from here? And what's next for corporate wellness?
Future of Plant-Based Corporate Wellness
[48:01] Oh, we're just getting started. But I mean, really, where we see it going is taking this message that you've created, and you've been able to share with people and amplifying it really, again, we want to make it as easy and enjoyable and affordable as possible for people to start living a PLANTSTRONG lifestyle. That's really what we're trying to help, you know, accomplish together here. And we want to take it to companies that care about their employees and want to make a change. And it's not just again, about the employees, which is important. And there's also a wider impact in terms of you doing this. So that's the message we want to get out. It's basically following in your footsteps. Yeah, well, this is the brass ring that you guys are shooting for here. And the latest stats that I've heard is that we now as a country are spending close to $5 trillion annually on health care costs.
[48:56] And it's just not sustainable, right? I mean, that that is going to bankrupt this country. You know, we we haven't even talked about, but I have on the podcast so people know. But, you know, how we have a pandemic of obesity. We have a pandemic of type two diabetes.
[49:16] And this is something that we have got to get a grip on in a big way. And I think if we can start to start knocking down the dominoes and start getting, you know, corporations to see this works and my God, my, my employees are getting healthy. They are, you know, we're reducing our healthcare costs.
[49:38] This is some exciting stuff. David, any, any last words from you? Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, by the way, I just want to mention that when I said that Geico intervention and you're talking about food costs, I just wanted to mention that that that Geico intervention where plant-based diets were used a bunch of sites. And I just want to say that they were actually lower food costs for eating this way as well. So people actually save money. People tend to think of, oh, the plant-based diets are going to be expensive. And it turns out, you know, you can certainly make them expensive if you buy these really fancy and not super healthy, like cheeses and meat alternates. You know, there's a lot of ways to blow your money if you want to. But, you know, rice and beans and like, who doesn't like a burrito or a bowl of chili? And, you know, these are the sorts of things that are not expensive. And so people actually tend to save money in this sort of capacity. And so it's nice to have your own paycheck go further.
[50:32] And, you know, you're talking about the future of where is this all heading? And I mean, I can really see us helping a lot of people really amplifying this message. I think it'd be great to see Metabite at companies of all different sizes. I could see us helping counteract, you know, the weight gain that often happens when people are starting at a new job in a new environment. And they're, you know, I think there's so much that we can do helping them become more productive, help shift that culture like you experienced at the firehouse. It changes the whole experience when you go to work and you're like, oh, there's something we're all on board here for together. And it makes it so that you're working with your teammates. It's just a different feel. And I think it's something I've experienced personally. You've experienced it personally. I think we can really have a great effect in this way. I could picture people instead of having their...
[51:24] Like donuts at their coffee, you know, at their meeting, maybe they have the donuts, maybe they're there, but there's also like a bowl of berries or something like that. And so, you know, it can start to shift, not telling people what they can't have, but rather saying, Hey, there's also a party here and you're invited to it. So I I'd love to see that happen. I think that would be a way more fun way to spend 40 hours a week than just, you know, checking the time so you can figure out when you can go take a nap or something like that. I hear you loud and clear. um well david and michael it's been a pleasure having you guys on the PLANTSTRONG podcast you know i i am so proud of the work that you guys are doing that we are you know trying to do together to improve corporate wellness and uh i think that you guys have um have hit pay pay kale here not pay dirt, but pay kale here. Really cool.
[52:20] Um, so all you listeners out there, I'd love to point you to our website. You know, you can go to liveplantstrong.com or you can visit the show notes in today's episode. Um, but this might be something that you could show to the decision makers in your workplace, in your network. And it may just like be the spark that ignites a, um, a wellness revolution in your work site. We would absolutely love that. So with that, David, Michael, my PLANTSTRONG brothers, I appreciate you from Finland, from Bend, Oregon. You guys absolutely rock. Thanks so much for having us. We appreciate it. Can I get a virtual PLANTSTRONG fist bump on the way out? Boom! Rip, thank you. All right, my friend. Thank you, Rip. Take care. Bye.
Closing Thoughts and Next Steps
[53:18] I want to thank y'all for joining us for this pioneering conversation about the future of wellness in the workplace. If you're inspired by what you heard today, and if you want to learn more about the PLANTSTRONG by Metabite corporate wellness program, check out the show notes for all the details. You can also visit liveplantstrong.com and explore how we're making plant-powered wellness accessible to companies everywhere. Let's keep building a healthier world together, one workplace at a time. Until next time, as always, keep it PLANTSTRONG. The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones. You can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr. And Anne Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.
