#96: Dr. Alan Desmond - Part 2 - 97% of the USA is Deficient in This. Are You?
This week, we get into the nitty-gritty of gut health with Part Two of our conversation with Gastroenterologist, Dr. Alan Desmond. If you missed part one with Dr. Desmond’s Top 10 Prescriptions for Better Health, we highly recommend a listen!
Let me ask you this -- “Where do you get your fiber?” If your first answer is Metamucil or any other fiber supplement, this episode is for you.
So many of us have what is known as a “carcinogenic microbiome.” It's an unfortunate truth that millions are walking around with a gut filled with cancer-promoting cells. Not only is this leading to so many of the preventable chronic lifestyle diseases, but also debilitating mental and cognitive issues like depression, anxiety, dementia, and alzheimer’s.
BUT, here's the great news. The studies also tell us that the more fruits and vegetables we consume, the higher our levels of optimism and the lower our levels of depressive symptoms.
How is that possible? Dr. Desmond and Rip explain the why and how.
Dr. Desmond explains the history of our gut microbiome, the role that short-chain fatty acids play in a healthy gut, and why a diversity of fruits, vegetables, legumes, whole grains, nuts, and seeds not only positively impacts our physical health, but also improves our overall sense of happiness and joy!
The saying, “You are what you eat” has never been more true. Well, if you want to be happy and healthy, let’s feed your gut with a diverse diet of fiber-filled happy and healthy whole plantstrong foods.
And, let’s keep the Metamucil on the grocery shelves where it belongs.
Episode Resources
PLANTSTRONG Podcast with Dr. Alan Desmond-Part 1
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Dr. Alan Desmond
About Dr. Alan Desmond, MB, BCh, BMedSc, MRCPI, FRCP
Doctor Alan Desmond is a Consultant Gastroenterologist who is dedicated to educating the public on the health benefits of a whole-food plant-based diet. His best-selling book, The Plant-Based Diet Revolution: 28 Days to a Happier Gut and a Healthier You, is available wherever books are sold.
Doctor Alan has made evidence-based dietary advice an essential part of his practice as a doctor specializing in gut health problems. He has presented at numerous international medical conferences on the benefits of this approach to food, alongside other renowned advocates including Dr. Michael Greger, Dr. Michael Klaper, Dietician Brenda Davis, Dr. Kim Williams, and Dr. Neal Barnard. He is an Ambassador for Plant-Based Health Professionals UK, a not-for-profit group that educates members of the public, health professionals, and policy makers on the incredible health benefits of a plant-based diet.
Certified in both Gastroenterology and General Internal Medicine, Doctor Alan completed his medical training in Ireland and Oxford. He has a specialist interest in the role of diet in the prevention and treatment of Crohn’s disease and Ulcerative Colitis. A fellow of the Royal College of Physicians, London, he has published several influential research papers in the field of Inflammatory Bowel Disease and is a dedicated advocate for the gut health benefits, and overall health benefits, of a whole-food plant-based approach to nutrition. He lives in South Devon with his wife and three children.
Full Transcript
Rip Esselstyn:
It's all about the fiber, right?
Dr. Alan Desmond:
And the variety of fiber and everything that comes with it. You know the American Gut Project, couple of years go, analyzed the gut microbiomes of 11,000 volunteers in high-income countries. The number one determinant of a very healthy and very functional gut microbiome with fiber loving bacteria producing extra short-chain fatty acids was the diversity of plants in your diet. The people who consumed more than 30 different plants per week seemed to unlock even more gut microbial benefits. But in that study, because it was performed in high-income countries, fewer than one in 250 people were making the grade to 30 plants per week.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Whereas as you know, on a whole food plant-based diet on any of your meal plans on the meal plans that are in my book, you're eating 50, 60, 70 different plants per week without even thinking about it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Season three of the PLANTSTRONG Podcast explores those Galileo moments where you seek to understand the real truth around your health and dare to see the world through a different lens. This season, we honor those courageous seekers who are paving the way for you and me, so grab your telescope, point it towards your future, and let's get PLANTSTRONG together.
Rip Esselstyn:
Welcome back to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. I am your host and healthy eating advocate, Rip Esselstyn, and as promised we continue our lively chat with gastroenterologist, Dr. Alan Desmond, if you missed part one last week on the top 10 prescriptions for gut health, I highly recommend you go back and give it a listen. Gut health is finally having its moment and we are here to keep shining the light on its importance. Today, we do a deeper dive on the microbiome and explain just how and why all health physical, mental, and emotional starts in your gut. Let me ask you this, where do you get your fiber? If your first answer is Metamucil or gummy bear fiber chews, keep listening, please. So many of us have what is known as a carcinogenic microbiome. That's even awful for me to say, but it's true. Many people are walking around with a gut filled with cancer promoting cells.
Rip Esselstyn:
Not only is this leading to so many of the preventable chronic lifestyle diseases that are afoot today, but also debilitating mental and cognitive issues like depression, Alzheimer's, and anxiety. What you eat affects how you feel. My friends, we can do something about this. I don't want to depress you with this information, but instead empower you and provide simple solutions to reclaim your health and live optimally. And that's why Dr. Desmond is back today to continue to help you understand the importance of your gut microbiome, allowing it to thrive, and the massive impact it has on all aspects of your life. Are you ready? Let's get back to Dr. Alan Desmond.
Rip Esselstyn:
In your book, you talk about a carcinogenic microbiome. What can we all do to make sure we do not have a carcinogenic microbiome? That just sounds deathly, that sounds awful.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Yeah, so the human gut microbiome, hundreds of trillions of microbes, bacteria, yeasts, viruses, archaea living within our digestive system.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
10 times more cells than the rest of our body, a hundred times more genetic material. The human microbiome has been with each one of us since the moment of our birth, that first human touch, that little bit of breast milk, that first breath of fresh air. Microbes from this microbial world find a home within our digestive system and within our body, crucial to the development of a healthy GI tract, immune system, and body, okay?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Not only that Rip, because look, I'll try not to talk for another hour about the gut microbiome, okay? But those little critters, those bacteria, viruses, and yeasts have been on this earth for 2 to 3 billion years. They are the direct descendants of the Earth's first living inhabitants. Humans on the other hand have only been around for 200,000 years. What that tells me is that when the first ever two cells got together, that would ultimately form the primitive creature that would ultimately give birth to the human race, the bacteria, and the yeasts, and the viruses were there. The microbiome was there right alongside them. And it's still with us today. And we on a daily basis, we can take care of a gut microbiome because our gut microbiome is incredibly important to our health.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
And why wouldn't it be? It's been with us since the dawn of human evolution, so how I would put this is when you sit down to eat, you can think about what kind of microbiome am I building today? Because the foods that we eat provide us with calories and nutrients. We absorb those in our small bowel predominantly, but the foods we choose to consume define the residue that gets delivered to our gut microbes, so if you're eating a standard Western diet, which is full of red meat, processed-meat, animal fat, plant deficient, processed food, okay. The bacteria that live in your large bowel are getting a steady supply of animal protein, hardly any fiber, and bile.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Alan Desmond:
They're getting bile, which is produced to help to digest and emulsify all that fat. And that feeds certain types of gut bacteria causing them to flourish and become predominant. And those are the bacteria that process that stuff and generate things like secondary bile acids and ammonia, hydrogen sulfide gas, which is pro-inflammatory, and hardly any short-chain fatty acids. And that gives us a gut microbial environment, which creates barrier dysfunction, inflammation, DNA damage, genotoxicity. In short, a gut microbial environment that is conducive to inflammation and carcinogenesis.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Alan Desmond:
The beginnings of cancer cells in our body. How about we make a different decision, so instead of having the Big Mac meal we're having the bean burger, and the sweet potato, and the leafy greens, the whole grains, the vegetables, the fruits. Now what does our gut microbiome receive on this healthy whole food plant-based diet? Well, tons of fiber, no, or very little animal protein.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yep.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Less protein in general because we absorb what we need and there is less leftover. Hardly any bile acids because our whole food plant-based diet is naturally lower in fat and lower in saturated fat, so now we're choosing to build a different kind of gut microbiome. We are feeding the bacteria and encouraging them to thrive that take those residues and metabolize them and produce, you mentioned it, short-chain fatty acids, antioxidants, phenolics, vitamins even.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
We get far less production of secondary bile acids and hydrogen sulfide gas. We get far less production of trimethylamine.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
In short, we have produced a gut microbial environment that promotes healthy cell metabolism, anti-proliferation, promotes mucosal health and defense.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Alan Desmond:
We have produced a gut microbial environment that promotes mucosal anti-inflammatory mechanisms and anti-carcinogenic effects. On a day to day basis, Rip, we can choose what kind of microbiome we're going to build each day. It's incredibly powerful, the food we eat.
Rip Esselstyn:
And that all goes back to, I think, prescription number one, which is a diversity of plant-based foods, because you write about how our gut absolutely loves and adores fiber.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's all about the fiber, right?
Dr. Alan Desmond:
And the variety of fiber and everything that comes with it. You know the American Gut Project, couple of years go analyze the gut microbiomes of 11,000 volunteers in high-income countries. The number one determinant of a very healthy and very functional gut microbiome with fiber loving bacteria producing extra short-chain fatty acids was the diversity of plants in your diet. The people who consumed more than 30 different plants per week seemed to unlock even more gut microbial benefits. But in that study, because it was performed in high-income countries, fewer than one in 250 people were making the grade to 30 plants per week.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Whereas as you know, on a whole food plant-based diet on any of your meal plans, on the meal plans that are in my book, you're eating 50, 60, 70 different plants per week, without even thinking about it.
Rip Esselstyn:
If you know anything about my family, you know that we love to cook simple PLANTSTRONG meals. And I want to virtually invite you right into our kitchen with a PLANTSTRONG meal planner, so many of my family's favorite recipes are right there for you to make for your own families, or even make together like we do. Earlier this year, we launched a special promotion and we've been really surprised at how much you've enjoyed it for the first time we offered a 14-day free trial to test drive our PLANTSTRONG meal planner, so that you can come in and really kick the tires before deciding if it's right for you. Exciting news, we're bringing it back, so more of you can take advantage, simply visit mealplanner.plantstrong.com today and enter the code STARTFRESH to redeem your two week trial. Check out the database filled with hundreds of recipes, see instructional cooking videos, make and save personal menus, and shop using our adaptive grocery list.
Rip Esselstyn:
You can even load and save your own recipes, so this meal planner becomes your wing man or wing woman in the kitchen, saving you loads of time and ensuring you use up all those vegetables. Again, free trial for the first time. And for a limited time, go to the show notes or visit mealplanner.plantstrong.com and enter the code STARTFRESH. Yes, you have to enter a credit card, but you won't be charged if you cancel before the trial ends and that's simply a click of a button, enjoy the test drive and get cooking.
Rip Esselstyn:
And for the listener. I mean, and that counts as like nuts, seed, chia seeds, hemp seeds, flax seeds. I mean, it adds up in a hurry.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
I adds up in a hurry, absolutely. The seasoning, the flavoring.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yep.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
I mean, I've almost given up counting the plants on my plate, but I do it occasionally.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
And I just go, oh yeah, wow I've got like 12 plants on my plate in one meal today, so it's no surprise. The 28 day revolution meal plan in my book. I think people get an average of like, I think it's like 55 plants per week, you know?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
And the nice thing is once you order those shopping lists, you see those plants coming in the front door, right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, and speaking of, you've got about 80 recipes in your book. They look absolutely delicious. As a former firefighter, I was drawn to like the spicy black beans and sweet potato farls, far, far, F A R-L-S. What's that word?
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Farls, so that's based on an old traditional thing. It's a bit of an Irish thing, so it's just a very simple potato bread. In the book, we used sweet potato and whole grain flour, and you just mix those together into sort of dough. You flatten it out. And having that with beans is such a good filling breakfast, so delicious. And in the book we do these lovely spicy beans.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Yeah. Great recipe.
Rip Esselstyn:
And you've got barbecued fruit. We used to love doing barbecued fruit at the firehouse. You've got a nut roast with an onion miso gravy that just like, makes my mouth water.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
That's good, man. It's so simple, but so good.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mushroom, lettuce, and tomato sandwich. Really, really creative stuff. Bob-
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Bob is a genius. Bob, so Bob Andrew, we've been friends for years. He's worked at tons of restaurants. He's worked at an organic fruit and vegetable company for years. And you know, when I met Bob, the first time I met Bob almost 10 years ago, I thought me and Bob were going to do a book together one day and we did it, man. We did it. And one of our golden rules when we were putting together the recipes was obviously they all need to be healthy whole food plant-based, but also we avoided very actively avoided using ingredients that might seem exotic or difficult to source to the average person, so look, I enjoy chia seeds, but there is no chia seed pudding in this book.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Because for most people, chia seed pudding sounds a little bit out there. And we wanted this book to be very, very accessible. And the recipes are built from the ingredients that you will find at your average supermarket. You don't need to go to the health store. You don't even need to go to the healthy, like the plant-based section at your grocery store. You've just find all this stuff in the produce aisle and where the beans are at in the supermarket, that's where you need to go.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. No, very firefighter friendly. That's good stuff. I want to come back to SCFA's, the short-chain fatty acids, so explain to the audience, are these created from the, basically the bugs, is this a by-product from the bugs and then does this, or how are they created and how do they help us out?
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Yeah, so I spoke earlier about when we consume food, there are certain parts of that food that we don't absorb, okay?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Like certain parts of the fiber and certain parts of proteins. And also when we eat food, there is also stuff that gets delivered to our large bowel that we didn't eat, but the reason it reaches our large bowel is because of the foods that we chose to eat. For example, like bile, we don't eat a lot of bile, but if we eat a lot of fats, our body produces a lot of bile, which makes its way down to the large bowel. These substances are food for our gut microbiome to put it simply, so certain microbes can thrive by metabolizing fiber. Some of them can thrive by metabolizing choline or carnitine from red meat.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yep.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Some of them can thrive by consuming bile, which we get when we eat a lot of fatty foods.
Rip Esselstyn:
And each one of these that thrive on, let's say, choline, or bile, or fiber, it's a different type of...
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Yeah. We've probably got like 7,000 different types of bacteria living in our digestive tract, probably more. And so different families of bugs can thrive on these different substances to a greater or lesser degree, so what those bugs are doing is they're just trying to survive, Rip. They're just digesting food as far as they know, but the healthy bacteria or the bacteria that predominantly thrive on fiber. And so they digest by a process called fermentation, so they get the nourishment that they need to keep them going so they can reproduce them duplicate and go about their business.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yep.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Their waste product is something that we refer to as a postbiotic.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Okay. And so, depending on what we fed our gut bugs, those postbiotics may be short-chain fatty acids.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yep.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Or they may be trimethylamine, or they may be secondary bile acids, or they can be a whole host of other thousands of different chemicals, including neuro-transmitters, and vitamins, and other things. But I guess these are the ones that we mostly speak about because they are the most important to determining our overall health. And we know Rip, that if we take people who eat an omnivorous diet, and we take people who eat a vegetarian or vegan diet, the people who veggie or vegan have a healthier gut microbiome. The research has been done. Vegans have a healthier gut microbiome, they produce more short-chain fatty acids. The short-chain fatty acids have so many benefits for our health. It's almost like our gut microbes want us to be healthy, Rip. Okay?
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Alan Desmond:
I'm not saying they're sentient, but it's like they want us to be healthy. Those short-chain fatty acids, which are made by our gut microbes provide 70% of the energy to the cells that line our large bowel. Without a constant supply of short-chain fatty acids, our gut lining becomes unhealthy, and dysfunctional, and leaky without this stuff that comes from our gut microbes.
Rip Esselstyn:
And so do you think that's one of the reasons why, like when you started this podcast, you mentioned how you see Crohn's, and ulcerative colitis, and IBS ,and dysfunctional guts. Is this purely a function of people not eating enough whole plant-based foods that then their microbiome is not basically turning into SCFAs and then protecting them from leaky gut and all these other things.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Absolutely. Diet is so important, we spoke earlier about creating a gut microbial environment that is conducive to inflammation or one that is not conducive to inflammation, okay.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
In terms of conditions like Crohn's disease for example, there is a genetic predisposition to developing Crohn's disease, but just because you have the genes doesn't mean you're going to develop it.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Alan Desmond:
And not only that, we know the genes associated with Crohn's disease, and while they increase your risk of developing the condition, they do not define the disease severity. Environmental factors are what define the disease severity. And the number one environmental factor is the food that we choose to consume, so we know for example, data from the Nurses' Health Study showing us that nurses in the Nurses' Health Study, so healthy middle-aged women predominantly, who consumed the most fiber, which okay it's standard US, so it's like 28 grams. You have this much for breakfast, but even consuming 28 grams of fiber per day, substantially reduces your risk of developing Crohn's disease. We see data from France showing us that women who consume the most animal protein are three and a half times more likely to develop Crohn's disease.
Rip Esselstyn:
Is there a certain number of grams of fiber you like to see your patients consuming over the course of a day?
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Yeah. I mean, generally when I speak to my patients, I don't talk, I genuinely don't talk to them about individual nutrients, I don't, I don't talk to them about carbohydrates, or oils, or fats. I don't even really talk to them about fiber.
Rip Esselstyn:
Right.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
I talk to my patients about food.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
I talk to my patients about fruits, and vegetables, and whole grains, and legumes, and nuts, and seeds. And I think that's how we should be talking to our patients about their dietary intakes. I talk about the diversity of plants aiming for more than 30 per week because the fiber will follow.
Rip Esselstyn:
Sure.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
The fiber will follow. I tried to keep it really simple for people because if you start talking about grams of protein, and grams of fiber, and grams of fat, you've lost the conversation straight away, right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. No, I agree with everything you just said. I just find it, like you said, when you started this out, I think you said women in the UK are getting 28 grams, so that's the recommended daily allowance. I have that for breakfast in my big bowl of cereal, right?
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Yep.
Rip Esselstyn:
I mean, I've never counted it up myself, but I bet you I'm getting somewhere between 75 to a 100 grams a day, pretty darn easily.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Yep.
Rip Esselstyn:
And the reason I bring that up is when I wrote my third book called The Engine 2 Seven-Day Rescue Diet, right? I used the word diet, like you use the word diet. I did a pilot study in Mesquite, Texas with 65 people. And I asked them, I said, this is before they started. What's the number one way that you get fiber into your diet, into your lifestyle? And guess what the number one answer was? Number one answer was Metamucil, and the number two answer was gummy bear fiber chews, right. They didn't even think to put like plants, so I'm just... Like you said in the beginning with protein, most people are deficient in fiber, that's not protein.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Yeah.
Rip Esselstyn:
Anyway.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Well, I think the evidence, I mean if we look at some of the healthiest populations in the world, if we look at the people who don't develop these diseases, generally we see populations who are consuming up to 60 or 70 grams of protein... you've got me doing it now. 60 to 70 grams of fiber per day but I think generally the evidence would suggest that if you were living the US or the UK, and if you make a change to your diet, whereby you are getting like 50 grams of fiber per day, and you're eating a diversity of plants and you're eating your fruits, and your vegetables, and your whole grains, and your legumes, and you're finding meals that you enjoy, and this is sustainable for you. You are on the right track, but that's what the evidence tells us. But I'll tell you look, over the years, I've been involved in designing quite a number of whole food plant-based meal plans, okay. For my patients, for the online courses I do with Steve and Dave at The Happy Pear and Rosie Martin registered dietician for the book and for other projects.
Rip Esselstyn:
Okay.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
And you've seen the recipes in the book, we were talking about them earlier, okay. There is nothing... I've got the book here, so rosti pie with cabbage, spicy parsnip and lentil soup, chunky minestrone, baked kedgeree, breakfast oats smoothie, this isn't exotic food. And generally in the meal plans, these are the kinds of meals that we have. And on each occasion, we've run the numbers. Usually with my friend, Rosie Martin, who's this awesome plant-based dietician. Because we know that people who are embarking on this meal plan will need to know that they are getting enough fiber, and protein, and calcium, and iron, and copper, and magnesium. And more importantly, as health professionals we want to be able to stand over us and say, yes, this is a complete diet, okay?
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Alan Desmond:
We've never had to tweak anything.
Rip Esselstyn:
No. Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
I mean it, we have never had to tweak anything, we have never had to scratch our heads and go, oh, hang on a second can we get more protein into one of these recipes? Or can we get more calcium into one of these recipes? Because if you follow the general principles of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, leafy greens, nuts, seeds, legumes, just like the EAT–Lancet paper reports recommends, then all of those nutrients just take care of themselves, so we don't even need to talk to our patients about them.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
We just need to talk to them about food and give them recipes, and give them cookery lessons. And the rest just takes care of itself.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, yeah. Cookery lessons, I like that. Let me ask you this, will you explain for us the gut-brain connection?
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Oh, this is so important. In my book, I talk about this as the happiness effect.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
And it's so important. And really the reason I became so interested in this was just like you Rip, I've been privileged to help lots and lots of people make the switch to a whole food plant-based diet. And whatever their motivation, whether it was when we were doing the Southwest plant-based diet challenge, we had like 150 health professionals trying a plant-based diet for the first time, just because I told them it would make them healthier and they wanted to experience it for themselves, or whether it's patients looking to improve their digestive health or individuals looking to reverse their type 2 diabetes, whatever the reason. If you're doing it for ecological reasons, animal welfare reasons, if you're just doing it to help prevent the next pandemic, right.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
No matter why people have made the switch, when you check in with them after about four to six weeks and you say, how's it going? How are you finding it? They always say things like, I feel lighter, I feel happier, I feel more cheerful. I had a friend recently, who's a chef. Who's been eating kind of a low carb, animal heavy diet for a while. And he switched to a whole food plant-based diet. And after a few weeks I checked in with him and he said, you know Alan, I'm being nicer to people.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Alan Desmond:
There is this happiness effect that we see all the time. And maybe it's because losing weight and getting all those other health benefits just cheers you up. But actually there is some really good science telling us why eating a plant-based diet makes us healthier. And some of it is to do with the fact that we're reducing our consumption of things like advanced glycation end products, and arachidonic acid. Which are in animal products linked to causing chronic inflammation, which causes depression. We're eating more antioxidants, which may improve our mood. We are eating a higher carbohydrate meal plan, whole carbs.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Which helps to favorably affect our body's metabolism of tryptophan, a substance which your brain uses to make the happy hormone serotonin.
Rip Esselstyn:
Nice.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Right, so serotonin, the happy hormone. And we know the studies tell us that the more fruits and vegetables that people consume, the higher their levels of optimism and psychological stress and lower risk of depressive symptoms. But we talked earlier about how our gut microbes produce postbiotic substances.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), yep.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Which benefit our health or affect our healths. Our gut microbes also produce and respond to neurohormones like serotonin, dopamine, GABA, norepinephrine, which enter our bloodstream and affect our health, and happiness, and well-being.
Rip Esselstyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Alan Desmond:
We talked about short-chain fatty acids earlier. Okay. Those short-chain fatty acids that are manufactured by our gut microbes. When we consume a whole food plant-based diet, that's how we preferentially hook in to maxing out our short-chain fatty acid production. 90% of those are absorbed very quickly and enter our bloodstream. Now we already know that they help to reduce chronic inflammation, control our blood sugars and all this other good stuff. Last year, I read a paper demonstrating that butyrate short-chain fatty acid is also present in our cerebral spinal fluid, so this is a chemical that's made by our gut microbes when we consume porridge or fiber. And it's in our brain, Rip. And I was like, what is it doing in there? It's got to be helping us, it's got to be benefiting us because it helps our physical health, it's got to be protecting our psychological health as well. And I was speaking to our mutual friends, Dean and Ayesha Sherzai recently.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yes.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
And I said to them, I said, guys, what is it doing in there? I haven't seen the research. And Dean tells me that the research shows that the short-chain fatty acids play a crucial role in helping the gut-brain barrier to maintain its integrity, so this is a barrier, the brain blood barrier, okay. This is a barrier, just like the gut barrier but in our brain, which prevents toxins in our bloodstream from entering our brain and causing damage.
Rip Esselstyn:
Like Alzheimer's?
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Like Alzheimer's or any inflammatory condition, right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Can you think of like a more elegant description of how our gut microbes are so crucial to our health and how we're just one big organism?
Rip Esselstyn:
Phenomenal. It is truly phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can see... I mean, as someone who went into gastroenterology, how fascinating. It's like you have found the missing piece of the puzzle and it's been there all along.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Yep. Absolutely, since the Dawn of human civilization.
Rip Esselstyn:
Wow. Wow. Well, let me ask you this. What are you most excited about right now going forward doctor?
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Oh my goodness. I'm super excited that the book is out in the US, like genuinely. It's already helped a lot of people on this side of the pond. I think it's going to help a lot of people on that side of the pond as well. I'm super excited to be an ambassador for Plant Based Health Professionals UK. I'm super excited to have built a network around the world to have incredible colleagues like Dr. Neal Barnard, Dr. Kim Williams, Dean and Ayesha Sherzai, Brenda Davis. I'm so pleased to know these people and to count them as friends. And what I'm really excited about is as the world opens up again, Rip, that we can start to have conferences again and spend time with people again. And like a couple of months before the pandemic, I had lunch with Dr. Michael Klaper in a busy diner in London, after a conference. Making these sorts of connections in person is what I am truly looking forward to again.
Rip Esselstyn:
Nice.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
That's what's got me excited right now.
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah. Well I look forward to meeting you in person when the opportunity presents itself.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Oh, I can't wait. It's got to happen, right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, Hey, Dr. Alan Desmond, thank you for your contributions. Thank you for doing everything that you can to propel the plant-based diet revolution with your book. It's beautiful. It's gorgeous. It's informative. It's educational. It is going to help people and save lives, no doubt about it. All right. Will you sign off with me? Peace.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Yes. Let me, sorry. I just missed, I missed my cue.
Rip Esselstyn:
It's all right.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
It's Peace and Kale, right?
Rip Esselstyn:
Just follow me. Ready? Peace.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Peace.
Rip Esselstyn:
Turn it around. Engine 2.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Engine 2.
Rip Esselstyn:
Keep it PLANTSTRONG.
Dr. Alan Desmond:
Keep it PLANTSTRONG, my friend.
Rip Esselstyn:
Thank you so much, Dr. Alan Desmond, these last two episodes have been really, really fantastic. Again, his book, The Plant-Based Diet Revolution is available in the US now, and we'll have all the links in the episode page at plantstrongpodcast.com. This book and the information in it can change your life in so many ways. And I hope that you'll join this fast growing revolution. The plant-based revolution. It is on. Thank you for listening to the PLANTSTRONG podcast. You can support the show by taking a quick minute to follow us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, leaving us a positive review and sharing the show with your network is another great way to help us reach as many people as possible with the exciting news about plants, thank you in advance for your support. It means everything.
Rip Esselstyn:
Have you had your own Galileo moment that you'd like to share what happened when you stepped into the arena and shed the beliefs that you thought to be true? I'd love to hear about it. Visit plantstrongpodcast.com to submit your story and to learn more about today's guests and sponsors. The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, Ami Mackey, Patrick Gavin, and Wade Clark. This season is dedicated to all of those courageous truth seekers who weren't afraid to look through the lens with clear vision and hold firm to a higher truth. Most notably my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr. and Ann Crile Esselstyn. Thanks for listening.
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