#262: Akil Taher, MD - Living Life with an Open Heart
Dr. Taher summits Mt. Kilimanjaro in Tanzania.
Dr. Akil Taher describes himself as a former “couch potato, and a pampered consumer who feasted over the best foods without worrying about unhealthy consequences.”
Like a lot of us, he didn’t worry until he had to, and then he eventually succumbed to the habits of the decadent western lifestyle. At age 62, this remarkable doctor had bypass surgery. “Fortunately,” he says, “Determination ran deep in my veins, so I decided to completely change my life.”
And, wouldn’t you know, Dr. Akil Taher – now in his 70s - is an experienced marathoner, cyclist, and whole food plant-based advocate. He’s even climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro - the highest free standing mountain in the world!
He shares his experiences before and after surgery, discussing his struggles with depression and how he turned adversity into motivation for a healthier lifestyle. The conversation explores the importance of mental health alongside physical well-being, emphasizing the role of community, spirituality, and a whole food plant-based diet in his transformation.
Dr. Taher’s insights, detailed in his book "Open Heart," serve as a powerful reminder that it’s never too late to embark on a journey of health and happiness.
Episode Highlights
16:40 The Five Worst Years
17:50 Open Heart Surgery Experience
23:50 Support from Family
29:25 The Role of Nutrition in Changing his Habits
31:45 Transitioning to Plant-Based Nutrition
36:42 Adventures to Marathons and Beyond
45:24 Climbing Mountains
1:00:53 Writing His Book, Open Heart
1:03:16 Advice and Wisdom on Living with Purpose
About Akil Taher, MD
Dr. Akil Taher is a practicing medical doctor, an author, eternal optimist, explorer, adventurer, and a strong advocate for a whole food, plant-based vegan lifestyle. He is a Septuagenarian athlete who after surviving heart bypass surgery has educated thousands to understand a way out of the pain of chronic illness and disease and he believes that what you eat is the most important pillar of the 6 Pillars of Lifestyle Medicine. Dr. Taher knows and shares through his incredible story, the lifechanging benefits of living a WFPB vegan lifestyle and it’s more than what you may think. Dr. Taher’s book “OPEN HEART: The Transformational Journey of a Doctor Who, After Bypass Surgery at 61, Ran Marathons and Climbed Mountains” is available on Amazon, Kindle and now on Audible (read in the author’s own voice). All proceeds from book sales go to charity. Get a copy at: https://amzn.to/3sy299g
Order Dr. Taher’s book, Open Heart
Episode Resources
Learn more about our 2024 PLANTSTRONG Retreat in Sedona, AZ
Give us a like on the PLANTSTRONG Facebook Page and check out what being PLANSTRONG is all about. We always keep it stocked full of new content and updates, tips for healthy living, delicious recipes, and you can even catch me LIVE on there!
We’ve also got an Instagram! Check us out and share your favorite PLANTSTRONG products and why you love it! Don’t forget to tag us using #goplantstrong 🌱💪
To stock up on the best-tasting, most convenient, 100% PLANTSTRONG foods, including our cornbread, teas, stews, pancakes cereals, granolas, pizza kits, broths and soups, check out all of our PLANTSTRONG products HERE. Use code: STRONG15 for 15% off your first order.
PLANTSTRONG Meal Planner: Visit LIVEPLANTSTRONG.com and click on the Meal Planner. Save $20 off the annual membership with the code PSSUMMER20
Full Transcript via AI Transcription Service
I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. Today, I'm going to introduce you to a surgeon who, like so many of us, thought, oh, heart disease will never happen to me. But you know how this story goes. At the age of 62, this gentleman needed to have open heart surgery, and it challenged every single belief that he had around his health and longevity. Today, Dr. Akil Taher is a PLANTSTRONG marathoner, mountaineer,and cyclist who shares his journey with his patients and all of us in his book, Open Heart. We'll meet Dr. Taher right after this message from PLANTSTRONG.
[0:58] Hey, PLANTSTRONG team. Tomorrow is the start of the 13th annual Plant-Stock weekend celebration. And it's not too late for you to pull up a virtual front row seat to this year's Brockstar lineup. Tune in from Friday, August 16th through Sunday, August 18th. And be inspired with fun new recipes.
[1:23] Learn the latest and greatest science. and connect with the larger plant-based community. Every single ticket includes a full recipe guide download to all the recipes over the weekend and access to all 19 presenters plus unlimited video replays. Your whole household can participate on just one ticket. Go to liveplantstrong.com today and sign on up. And, and, and, if you want an in-person experience, Come join me and the whole PLANTSTRONG team in Sedona this October from the 8th to the 13th and enjoy an interactive, immersive retreat amongst the red rocks of Arizona. We'll do all the cooking. You get to come, relax, meet a bunch of new friends, get answers to all your burning questions, Enjoy some yoga, daily hikes, challenge me at pickleball, and all the while, you'll be fully supported by the whole PLANTSTRONG team. Enjoy endless buffets of plant-based meals and world-class lectures from all the experts. Register at liveplantstrong.com or send me an email with any of your questions at hello at plantstrong.com. See you soon.
Dr. Taher's Journey
[2:48] Dr. Akhil Tehar describes himself as a former couch potato and a pampered consumer who feasted over the finest foods without worrying the least about any unhealthy consequences. Like a lot of us, he didn't worry until he had to, and then he succumbed to the habits of the decadent Western lifestyle, and at the age of 62, he had bypass surgery. Fortunately, he says, determination ran deep in my veins, so I decided to completely revamp my life. And wouldn't you know it, Dr. Akil Taher, now in his 70s, is an experienced marathoner, cyclist, and whole food plant-based advocate. He has even climbed, get this, Mount Kilimanjaro, the highest freestanding mountain in the world. His story is uplifting and inspiring and real. Let's meet the man with an open heart of love, Dr. Akhil Tehar.
[3:52] Welcome to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast. I'm delighted to be here. Well, I am delighted to have you on. And I cannot wait to dive in and talk about you because you're spectacular. So you're not only a practicing medical doctor, you're an author, you're an explorer, you're an adventurer, you're a whole food, plant-based diet believer.
[4:22] Hallelujah, and you are an open-heart bypass surgery survivor and an eternal optimist. I can't think of a better conversation. Great. Yes. Shoot. So why don't we start with, I'd love to know, where did you grow up and when did you move over to the United States? Okay. I grew up in India for the initial 17, 18 years of my life. Then I moved on to the Middle East, Bahrain. And at that time, after finishing my medicine, I, along with my British, American, and Australian colleagues, we opened the first Gulf Medical School along with the American University of Beirut. And this was in the early 80s. After that, I came over to the U.S. And you know what? I came pretty late. I came in my 40s. So, you know, Rip, I had to do a lot of catching up for the American dream, so to speak. Right. So I worked hard, long hours, paying very little attention to myself, health, family, friends.
[5:50] Until the age of 61, Rip, I created my own unhealthy lifestyle.
[5:57] See, I was born into a family that was a meat-eating family. Back in the Middle East, it was a joint family. We used to get all the meat and everything that was unhealthy.
[6:10] Evenings were, the kitchen was closed, so we used to go and have shawarmas. You know the shawarmas? They cut the meat and give it to you. I come to America, and I, believe it or not, I started eating unhealthy from day one. I indulge into foods without worrying about what effect it would have on my health.
[6:38] And sometimes, Rip, I feel that I was addicted to get my daily high. Otherwise, I would not be able to survive. But you probably also didn't know any better. Is that correct? Absolutely. Absolutely. And so when I was not working hard or not eating what was in front of me, I was a complete cow's potato, absolutely did not know the meaning of exercise. And that is why the first generation of Indians that come to America do not know the meaning of exercise.
[7:16] But explain that to me. So the first generation of Indians that come to America don't know it. Is that because they're working, they're not exercising, or what is it? Why is that seed not in their brain? Because they have to prove themselves, number one. We have got 1.4 billion people. How many Olympic gold medals or silver medals do we get?
[7:43] Hardly, comparatively. we are not an exercising nation now it is different things are happening but in my time there was no exercise i mean people did not believe in that you're going to work hard come back eat and go to sleep and so yeah well this is this is i'm finding this to be a fascinating subject so you decided to come over to america in your 40s it sounds like were your parents alive live and still back in India? And were they super happy and proud of you for coming over to America? Or what were their thoughts? Yes, of course, they were very proud. Everybody wanted to be, but I spent 11 years, as I told you, in the Middle East, and then I came over here. They were very proud. My sister was here. My brother was here. So that was not a problem but my uh you know what uh rip at that time i had a type a personality, it was either my way or the highway and uh sometimes i believe that is how i succeeded in my life as a medical i went on working hard but uh my family history my genetics.
[9:07] Terrible my brother died of aneurysm at the age of 52 my sister and my mother succumbed to heart disease at the age of 69, and my other living brother who is there 2 years older has got pulmonary fibrosis, so and I personally have a WPW syndrome It sounds like a horror movie, but it's Wolf-Parkinson-White syndrome, which has got a conduction defect in my heart. And then just lately, about two, three months back, I had to tell my cardiologist, why is my cholesterol not coming down? You've got to do my LP little a. A. And my LP little a, that normally is up to 60 or something, and mine was 361.
[10:06] A little, as you know, Rip, it's like cholesterol, bad cholesterol, but it is alcohol. So it sticks prematurely on your coronaries. That's why I got a problem at the age of 56. I'm 76 now. And so that, but that LP little a, that is a type of cholesterol that is primarily genetic, right? Is that something that you cannot alter too much with nutrition? Nutrition. Is that correct? Yes, absolutely. I need to get the shots, the Repetha shots.
[10:42] The cholesterol bursting shots, you know, to take once a month till they come to a treatment. There are a lot of studies going on, but I don't know anything that has come out in the market. So I've even been in two months back, I was in London and I met people where I was giving a talk, and but they don't know either right now okay and so if your LP little a little a was in the 300s do you know what your total cholesterol was was always very high 260 270 and with my plant-based diet uh-huh so I was wondering and then I told my cardiologist he said no no you don't need to get it done I said but why why not and then I realized that so many of my patients So many of my friends, not many, but I have friends and family who got LP little a high. I immediately told my son to get it. His is high, but very little. Right. So do you have what is called familial hypercholesterolemia? No. No. This is just a genetic comedown of an LP little a. Now, again, I don't know because my father and grandfather and grandmother, they never got their blood checked.
[12:03] Nobody really knows. But, you know, the thing is that all these kind of things brought on so much of stress. Tremendous amount of stress that I could not handle.
[12:22] So I was not surprised at all when heart disease came knocking at my door. Yeah. At the age of 56?
[12:34] Yes. Okay. And how did that look? Like when you say it came knocking at your door, how did it knock at your door? You see, I was in London at that time meeting a friend. And I was going to Hyde Park and doing my usual walks, you know, slowly. I never ran even a kilometer. And then suddenly every four minutes I would get a chest discomfort. I sat, it disappeared. I timed it. So I told my friend, look, this is a situation. I think I need to go back to my country and get it tested. He said, we can get it done over here. I said, no, I want to go back. And then when I got back, that is when they did a stress test, stress echo, NGO and found that I had this problem.
[13:28] Triple vessel disease. And at that time, I didn't know anything about plant-based. So they said, get your stents. Okay. Now, here is the thing, Rip. When my plaques were so thick that they had to use a diamond-tipped drill to shave off the plaques. Wow. In the process, I got a cardiac arrest. That shocked me to get my heart beating again. Now, this is at the age of 61, though, right? 56. Well, okay. I thought 61 is when you died on the operating table. Is that not correct? It's 56. Got it. Got it. Okay. So 56, you're having open heart. You're having triple vessel open heart surgery. No, they're putting stents in me. Putting stents in you. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. This is not shocking that I had a cardiac arrest. It is shocking, of course. But it is not as bad as the brilliant cardiologist who saved my life that day. By doing what he did, he saved my life. And then, two years after that, he died of a massive heart attack on the treadmill. And he was only 48 years old.
[14:51] Okay. So help, help me with the timeline here. So 56, you have this, you have, you're having the stents put in. Is that three stents? Yes. You're having three stents put in and you go into cardiac arrest. Sorry. Sorry. Two stents. Two? Two stents. Two stents. You go into cardiac arrest. They bring you back to life. All right. They have a shot. They have to shock you. Correct. and and then uh and then what happens after after you you recover from from the stents yeah most people think that i would have changed my lifestyle by then i did not okay well you probably didn't know nobody nobody probably told you right no i i i knew that i had to change my lifestyle i mean i'm not saying go plant-based right but eat a little better because i was eating like a pig and so i had to eat better But I did not because I first time in my life, I felt I had no control. And I was in denial, angry. And then I started doing exactly what I was doing before, even worse, thinking that medical science will get me out of it.
[16:07] So I continued my life. I was severely depressed. rest. I mean, I remember that, you know, people don't realize this. But once you have an event like this, you can be very isolated, lonely. And, you know, you feel terrible, because your nights are terrible, you get awful dreams, you're you're sweating, and your mornings are no better. You sit on a chair and stare vacantly at nothingness.
The Five Worst Years
[16:40] So all this happened. So those were the five worst years of my life. And I believe very strongly, Rip, that adversity can either be your best friend or your worst enemy. Right now, adversity was my worst enemy. So it did not surprise me. My stance failed. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So your stents failed after what? Two years? Five years. After five years. So this is now when you're 61. Is that correct? Correct. And now, are you what? Are you going in now for open heart surgery? Correct. Wow. Wow. Okay.
[17:27] Okay, go ahead. I'm going in for open heart surgery, and I don't know why I said this, but I told the nurses in the ICU that I would do a half marathon in a year's time if all went well.
Open Heart Surgery Experience
[17:43] Till today, I don't know why I said that. Probably I was, I believe that I had only two choices left. I'm going to continue my horrific way of life and wait for death, or to make a conscious decision to really change my life, to live with purpose, passion, positivity, and not only survive, but thrive.
[18:12] So this was in my mind. So my recovery was remarkable. I was on the treadmill the third day. I didn't take one single pain medication. Wow. Tell me this. So you had the open heart, so you have the zipper scar, is that correct? Yes. And what did they do? Did they take the veins from your legs, or what did they do? I went and did a little research at that time, and I found that if they can do it on a beating heart, it is better. Because people who get on a heart-lung machine, my own doctor friends and all that, so many of them have got this, they have a memory problem. Right. So I decided to get on a beating heart, which is not the thing to do, but it's better than the heart lung machine. So I did my study and found about 15 doctors who do this. Now, on the same token, in India, they do it all the time, but that is because it's cheaper.
[19:17] You don't have to use those heart-lung machines. Here, there are only 15 good doctors who can do it. So I went to New Jersey to get it done. What they did was take my radial artery and my internal memory arteries, too, and graft it into my 3D, which is a widow maker. Now it should be called a widower maker, too. And that, my right circumflex and right coronary were also by the radial artery and the internal memory. So those vessels or arteries that they used are probably much better suited than vessels from your leg that typically, what, I think I've read 51% fail within two years or something like that. In 10 years is maximum. And again, like you and me, I mean, in fact, now I've become a sports person. It means my mind was thinking that I've got to do this. I've got to do a half marathon. If I was supposed to be doing all that, I didn't want the stiffness veins to go because then it would be a problem in my legs.
[20:38] Right on. Okay. So on the third day after surgery, you're on the treadmill. Mill, and are you able to achieve your goal of running a half marathon within, was it half a year, you said? Yes, yes. And you know what? The pain of somebody cutting you open is horrendous. But it was, for me, the pain was, I shouldn't be using this word, but kind of pleasure compared to the five years of what I'd undergone.
[21:13] So when I told the nurses that I would do it, exactly seven months, I started running. I started eating better, not plant-based. And I started doing meditation, yoga, sky breathing.
[21:30] So it's getting better. So I decided to take baby steps. Steps, running to me became motion, you know, like, it was meditation in motion. Yeah. I didn't like running with people. And somebody said, I don't know who it was, a classical road to self-consciousness, self-awareness is what running is. And to me, I fell in love. I said, this is great. Yeah. So, small steps I took. Seven months later, my wife and I went to Nashville to do my first half marathon. Now, there was a dichotomy of fear and excitement. We went one night early. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't sleep. One o'clock in the morning, I went dozed off. And guess what? I kid you not, I've written in my book, I got a dream that I'm representing the US in the Olympics. And they're putting the gold medal on me. And I'm trying to sing the national anthem. And it is totally out of tune.
[22:48] So there I am and I caught up you know in the next morning it caught up it sort of made me feel that I'm ready to go I'm raring to go, And so it took me four hours, yeah, four hours to do a half marathon when my best timing later on comes to two hours and 15 minutes. Four hours, but my bruised heart did not fail me, carried me to the finish line. Yeah.
[23:19] It's a fantastic story. I want to know, the five years that you said were very painful. You were kind of in a state of depression. How did your marriage survive during those five years? I think she was, my wife, Nafisa, was very supportive. She understood what I was dealing with.
Support from Family
[23:42] She reprimanded me at times. She got mad at times, rightfully so now when I'm thinking about it. And she partnered me into things that made me feel that, look, all is not lost. We will get to this together. And so she's my rock. She's my sanity. So you were able to get to the promised land together, weren't you? That's really good. And I would imagine that if she is your rock, that she is also completely supportive and on board with the whole food, plant-based lifestyle. Yes? You see, she and my daughter went vegetarian and vegan 30 years back because of animal cruelty. They couldn't change me. I did it for health reasons. People do it for animal rights. Some do it for global warming.
[24:44] But I did it for them, so they were already on the right track.
[24:51] So it sounds to me like you almost had like a Scrooge experience here where your heart just kind of somehow opened up. And you say you had this transformational experience, right, at the age of 61. And you also say, for example, let me see if I can find it here in my notes, that up until the age of 61, the biggest impediment to your progress was yourself. And after the age of 61, you became the biggest change agent for yourself. And so what I mean, what would you say to somebody that's that's listening right now? They're stuck. They're they're getting in their own way. How do you get out of your own way?
[25:52] You see, the trouble is that even though I was making progress and I was doing this half marathons and all that, marathons, triathlons, but I was coming back tired. I would be in bed for two or three or four days. And my diverticulitis, remember, diverticulitis, when you have ruptured, I have two ruptures. And so I've been admitted twice in the hospital. And the second time, a friend of mine, a surgeon, he says, Akhil, if I don't take you and do surgery on you, you're going to die. You may not live. So that was my state. So when I did all this, my diverticulitis was better. But still I would get attacks. So I was wondering why this constant tiredness, diverticulitis would come up.
[26:50] Heartburns. And so I decided that there must be something that I'm not doing right. That's the time when I read your father's book, how to prevent and reverse heart disease. I met Dean Ornish, and I talked to Neil Barnard. And the more I read, and T Collins, of course, he wrote for my book also, the The more I read, the more I realized there was something here.
[27:22] And so I wanted to, I wanted sort of to experiment or try and heal the body without solely relying on medication and invasive surgery. There is a definite place for all this conventional medicine. If somebody is coming with a heart attack in my clinic, I'm not going to say have a carrot stick. But I am definitely, when I read this, I said, wait a minute, there is something over here. That is a time I started doing things. And you know what? This is the honest truth. I did my 100 kilometer bike ride when I was not a plant-based, total plant-based. And I did a 100 mile bike ride when I was 100% plant-based. days. My hundred kilometer bike ride after that huge piece of chicken and I went to bed for three or four days. My hundred mile bike ride, which was in Gale Force winds, it was 26 degrees temperature in the morning. It took me nine and a half hours to do this at the age of 66, no 69.
[28:35] And so I, when I did this, I was going back to my hometown and I get a call from my office manager. We don't have a doctor tomorrow. So nine and a half hours, six hours of drive. And I said, don't worry, I'll be there. Yeah. I was there 10 hours without batting an eye. Yeah. That is the thing about plant-based. Yeah. Well, yeah, it sounds like, you know, you were able to recover. Very, very low, low, low inflammatory response. That's really remarkable. You also, I don't know if you said this, but you talk about it, and that is that kind of no disease that can be treated with diet should be treated with any other means. Maimonides, the great philosopher, he said that. He said that no disease that can be treated by diet should be treated by any other means.
The Role of Nutrition
[29:25] Food can either fight disease or feed disease. Well, and as we all know, everybody listening as well, that one of the major mistakes, I think, with the current medical practice is that it's not getting to the root causation of these diseases, right? It's just treating the symptoms. It's a small thing, Rip. If you ask the doctors, what is the cause of diabetes?
[29:57] 75 to 80% will say sugar. Which is not true. Right. So if you have 75 to 80%, how are you going to change them? When you want to change people, you've got to change the doctors.
[30:12] You cannot have, like I used to do, be in the residency, And my cafeteria was full of pork chops and fried chicken and browns and greasy oil chips. So we got to change and we got to nutrition is never taught to us. Zero. My son, who is a doctor, who is a hospitalist in Atlanta. How many did he have? 20 hours.
[30:43] And is he? So you, what kind of physician are you? I'm a primary care family physician. I was boarded before in both family practice as well as pediatrics. So that is where i come from and now i go uh i do telemedicine but i go twice or once one weekend back to my clinic because i've known them for so many years yeah and and, so these patients that you're seeing what's what's the age range of the patients you see from from six to seven years to 80 85 okay six i love it i love it so the whole spectrum how many of your patients are you proselytizing about whole food plant-based nutrition as the prescription for all that ails
Transitioning to Plant-Based
[31:38] them practically all i'll tell you the reason being i'm telling them that. But the moment they come around and say, look, I don't want this. There are a few who will say, I don't want this. I will face the consequences. You just give me a shot of an antibiotic or you give me antibiotics. Then my hands are tied.
[32:02] So because I am now, I've sold my clinics, I'm working for somebody, but my patients, my patients, I have to do certain things for the business angle to it. But no, No, I will never start off with something that I don't believe in. Yeah. Yeah. But I also have a, every month I do, every month I do a doctor's corner and I do all the chronic diseases. I've covered practically about nine, 10 so far. That's great. Is your, is your son, what type of physician is he? He's a hospitalist. Okay. What does that mean exactly? Hospitalist meaning that he does not have, um, uh, have to keep an office and overheads and all that. He works in the hospital. One week work, one week off. So he does all the acute thing he can come in with. So he's there. So he's kind of more like an emergency room physician? More or less, but the hospital is very... If I'm a family physician, I want to admit my patient to the hospital. Nowadays, we don't do that. We used to do it before. We used to come home at 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock after taking rounds in the hospital. Now we just send it to the hospitalist. He looks after your patient. When it's better, he sends a patient back to us. So let me ask you this. How old are you today? 76. 76. So looking back on your life, if you could do it over again, would you be a doctor again?
[33:30] Yes. But I would rather be a talk show host.
[33:37] Yeah. You know, yeah. I know. That is true. A lot of people have said that, you know, either be a comedian or a talk show host, whatever. Yeah, yeah. But yes, I would be a doctor. One thing, can I mention, Rip, a little bit out of the way? Please. I had known earlier and understood everything earlier of what I know today and understand today about plant-based. I may not have gone for stents or surgery yeah I would have gone to your Cleveland clinic to your dad yeah it's done you can't undo it so what I'm saying is band-aid treatment has been done now I've got vessels in my penis in my kidney in my brain in my legs and even in my heart other I've got to save those. I've got to treat those. I have to prevent those from getting. So that is my message, my heart-healthy message. I just came back from Hilton. We spoke to eat smarter, live long.
[34:48] Huge crowd, huge crowd. But that is what I want to spread now. Yeah. Where do you live? What state are you in? I'm in Atlanta, Georgia. Okay. All right. Um, you, you refer to yourself as an eternal optimist. Is that since the transformation occurred after 61 or does that include before?
[35:13] Not before. Okay. Not before. I sort of said that my genetics are bad, my eating habits are bad, so I'm going to land up into some kind of a problem. So I was not really careful. But now I believe that, you see, my main point is older people. You see, age is not, how do I put it? Age is not a limiting factor in changing one's lifestyle. If I could do it at 61, so can others. And remember, very few people on your show too, who are doctors or research and physicians, there are many that have come to your show, great knowledge, great people. But then I am a heart disease survivor too. So I've been in their shoes. I know what they're going through. I have empathy towards them. And finally, you don't find many doctors who turn into septuagenarian athletes at the age of 61. Yeah.
[36:19] Well, I think the nice takeaway there is that it's never too late to turn your health around. Doesn't matter if you're in your 60s, 70s, 80s, or even 90s, right? You can always benefit from it. I'd love to talk about you going from couch
Adventures Beyond Marathons
[36:37] potato to kind of adventurer and explorer. So you talked about how you did the half marathon. You did a 60K cycling event. You did a 100-mile cycling event. You've done triathlons. You've done skydiving. You've done hand gliding, scuba diving, whitewater rafting, mud racing. Were you making up for lost time?
[37:02] I get very easily bored with one thing, Rick. So I'm looking at new challenges. So I decided to do, even though I did a triathlon when I did not know how to really ride a road bike. Wow. And there is a sense that you learn to do a road bike. It's a zero this thing when you are absolutely a stop. You have to fall when you're learning. Yeah. There's clip pedals because you cannot take those shoe off in time. Yeah. So I had so many falls. But then what? You know what? You know what? I learned how to fall so not to get hurt yeah I did that and then you know they're remarkable stories I mean there are so many nice stories that I have it see because my book is an adventure and full of fun too and there are and there are moments where like the triathlon when I first did a triathlon I'm very scared of cold waters I cannot stand cold water so I did it in Lake linear over here. So to get ready to do a late linear triathlon, I bought myself a whole body wetsuit online. But like an idiot, I did not read the instructions.
[38:23] So I put it on when the instructions clearly mentioned that you put body glide on your wrist, on your ankles, your feet, feet and your legs and around your shoulders so that you can easily take it off and put it on. Yeah. So I didn't do that. So it took me hours to put it on, but I could not take it off no matter how hard I tried.
[38:46] So I sat on the bed, and one last, this thing, I pulled it down to my waist, but I couldn't get it below part of my body. And I swallowed my pride, and I called my wife. I said, can you help me, please? She had one look at me and started laughing.
[39:07] After she finished laughing, she says, okay, sit on the floor. He sat on the floor and she took both the rubber leggings and tried to take the suit off my body. She did not. All she managed was pull me all around the house. You were a good brum. Yeah. And then she immediately says, wait, I've got an idea. And when my wife says, I've got an idea, you better be careful. She goes in the kitchen and gets a pair of scissors. Oh, no. Oh, no. She cuts those expensive wetsuits. Outer rubber leggings, five inches or so in each side. Now she gets a better grip. She pulls it out of me with a lot of hair and everything going. We had a great fun doing that after that.
[40:01] But there was a random act of kindness to grip. The Boston Marathon, which I did after the bombing of the thing. I think it was 2013 they bombed, and I did it on 2014. I raised money for them. Even the Chicago Marathon, I raised $10,000 for the American Heart Society, single-handedly.
[40:26] So when I was over there, you see, it was pretty cold in Boston. So you wear a knit to bargain. So I wore that. And then it started getting hot. So I discarded it. So now it was getting so hot. And normally my wife always gives me a $20 bill to put in my pocket. So I go to this absolute stranger. Who is that? And I said, sir, can you just give me your hat? I'll give you this $20. He was reluctant at first. But his girlfriend elbowed him and said, give that gentleman your hat. So he gave it. And she didn't even take money from me. In a passing shot, he told me, look, that was a Red Sox hat. Custom made hat. He says, look, I have given you, this hat has been with me for 10 years. You better finish the race. Wow. That motivated me because my calf muscle tear was there prior to the Boston Marathon. So i i finished it and then i tried even i i was with uh yeah on uh neil bernard's show and i said i want to find this guy so i tried very hard to find him afterwards to return his head but they all wanted his name i hope he gets to hear this right still got the head with me.
[41:49] Now, in addition to doing the Boston Marathon in 2014 and the Chicago Marathon in 2011, you also did the Mumbai Marathon in 2000 and I think 16. And what was what was your what were you thinking when you went over to India to do that marathon? You know what? It was the most difficult marathon I've ever done. Why? Because you've got potholes. So you're not running looking straight, you're running looking down. Number one. Number two, there are not enough restrooms. In my age, when my age, everybody has a large prostate to a certain degree. That was number two. Third, I did not drink fluids because of that. And so I got muscle cramps.
[42:45] But that was outdone by the camaraderie. People singing in unison. and people calling me uncle. People, when you're running a race, you've got to do your time. I'm not doing for time. So when you go to get your water, this young man, he turns around and says, sir, you drink first. I said, you're crazy. You've got to run fast. Go ahead. He said, no, no, you drink first. That kind of a camaraderie, you can't. Yeah. Were there a lot of people that did that marathon? Oh, boy. I think it was close to 25,000 or 30,000. Wow. Yeah. Boston had about 37,000, the highest number in 2014. Was it hot in Mumbai when you did it? Yes. Yeah. And, you know, it was muggy and hot. It was fun. And I just, by the way, I just did my 5K two weeks back for the Pride Run in Atlanta. And apparently, I was the oldest guy in the 3,000 group. Wow. Good. Yet, I did stand first. And I bettered my time from 38 minutes to 36 minutes.
[44:09] So, I'm happy. I'm happy. Yeah. Was your last marathon the Mumbai Marathon? Yes. My last half marathon was for the American Association of Physicians from India in San Antonio. Mm-hmm. And you, in addition to running marathons, I mean, you, well, actually, let me, I want to read, can you pull, can you get one of your books and show people the cover of it? There you go. So I want to read what you have there. You say the transformational journey of a doctor who, after bypass surgery at 61, ran marathons and climbed mountains. So let's talk a little bit about climbing mountains. So, one of the mountains that you decided to climb was, well, you did Kilimanjaro, right? How high is Kilimanjaro? 19,000 plus, 19,330 to be very near to that. Yeah. And then the other mountain you climbed was, how do you pronounce it? Kailash in Tibet. Okay. And that is supposedly the tallest freestanding mountain.
Climbing Mountains
[45:25] Kilimanjaro is the tallest freestanding mountain. Okay. And what does that mean if it's a freestanding mountain? It's not part of a mountain range? What does that mean? No, it's not part of a mountain range. It's by itself. It just goes.
[45:39] The thing is that Kailash is a part, but Kailash is 29,000, 31,000. So you're not climbing to the top. In Kailash, you're circumventing at 19,000. And when you are circumventing at 19,000, that is where all the problems arise, the last four days.
[46:02] In Kilimanjaro, you're going to be careful because you start from a small town, Moshi. And you get, because there are a lot of mosquitoes, so you get medications. So you take your medications before leaving America. And when those medications, one of the greatest side effects is insomnia. So the first few, for example, up to 7,000 feet, you do have mosquitoes. After that, there are no mosquitoes. So till that time, you're supposed to take your medication. And I couldn't sleep. The first two nights, I slept for about half an hour at the tops. So I was going to give up. And so I wondered what is going on with this. And when I try and figure out extremely cold, small little tent, you are trying to get out and for peeing or you get a pee jar. But and you are taking six liters of fluid every day and you are taking diuretics and you're not sleeping because of this medication.
[47:09] And you have an enlarged prostate. Yeah. This is terrible. So I was going to give it up on the third day. But then I stopped the medication and I slept like a baby.
[47:21] Back to. Good. You figured it out. Nicely done. What was, was one of the two mountains more gratifying than the other between Kilimanjaro and Kailash? Kilimanjaro was more difficult in that sense but Kilimanjaro was an American company that gave you good breakfast and yeah lunch and all that while that was a Nepali company which was very frugal in what they gave you to eat but I believe that since I did one One year after my open-heart surgery, I did Mount Kailash in Tibet. So the Chinese, anyway, don't like you as an American with your American passport, and they don't like you because you're an Indian. So anyway, you are there, but when you are doing the 19,000 feet over there, and everybody was high-fiving and all that, I wanted isolation. I went and sat on a rock and I started wondering, what is all this material things that we gather? I mean, I've learned the best of cars and everything else, but is it worth it?
[48:45] And sort of a peace came over me that cannot be described, but can be felt. And so when i came down i forgot about it and i carried on my usual life till my wife noticed something happened over there up there so i believe that there was something there that made me feel like this because when i asked her i said yeah this is what happened he says you change the type of personality is mellowed down.
[49:23] You are very much, So I believe that certain things in life just happen and makes you get better. And that is why I always say adversity becomes your best friend. After my heart surgery, open heart surgery, it became my best friend. Yeah. Well, that was 2010 when you did that mountain. It sounds like when you had that epiphany out on your own sitting there. I still am not a very religious person. I'm more spiritual. I don't know. I mean, if you tell me right now, I don't know. But there must be something for my wife to tell me then. What does your wife think about all the adventures and escapades that you're going on in your life? You mean in short synonyms? Yeah. Well, she brings me down from the clouds at times to the ground. By mopping you all over the floor in your wetsuit.
[50:36] I thank her for that, you know, because sometimes you get carried away. Yeah, yeah. And you feel that you're full of, but you're not. You've got to accept that. But when you talk to a crowd of so many people, you've got to let your feet be right down there. And that's very important. And I very seriously follow the six pillars of lifestyle medicine. That is what I got out of reading your father's book and others. And then I said, wait a minute, there is a six pillars. And to me, the most important pillar, the cornerstone, is intuition. Then comes the others that complement your exercise, your sleep, your handling stress, avoiding abusive substances, or for that matter, having a great social group, support. Tell me this.
[51:42] Who is the cook in the house, you or your wife? I think we are both but I am not as good as her I think it is let's put it this way I'm not a good cook in short and simple so and I don't go in for gourmet foods anymore but I do what the and And, you know, I was rarely invited to very many places because I felt like I'd done something wrong, but then they realized that I was having this. So now they've understood and there is a lot of good gourmet food in plant-based. Like your, they say, I've tried other companies, but I saw what I like about your, this thing is, and I'm not trying to, I'm not selling your things or anything like that. I'm just telling you the truth that you can manipulate, you can make it better. Like, for example, your pizza crust is fantastic. But now with the sauce, you can add garlic or your black pepper or your cayenne pepper, whatever you want to add to those. You can do it cilantro. The last time I did with cilantro and then put the basil over it and put every kind of vegetable.
[53:06] So that is my main thing. Your burgers. I don't like very much your mushroom burgers. A lot of people like it. I love your bean burgers. The black bean, yeah. But again, I put things in it.
[53:20] So I put garlic, ginger, and make it. And one other thing was it's difficult to form the patty.
[53:29] So you need to put your hand into a little bit of warm water. Yeah, yeah. Well, what I find actually, well, thank you for mentioning that. What I find is I don't use my hands. I find the burgers, especially if you have a good nonstick skillet, I just use a spoon and I just put like two or three scoops in there and then it just kind of coagulates together and it's good to go. Or you can put it on a cookie sheet with parchment paper and then just throw it on there, throw it in the oven and, you know, let it cook. Okay. Okay. Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah. So I typically never use my hands, but if you do, you need to get the hands wet. That um well that's that's so do you um give me an example like what did you have for for breakfast today my audience loves to know what people eat so what did you have for breakfast and lunch i get up in the morning rip i will first of all before anything else after brushing my teeth i will have a glass of lukewarm water that big why warm why lukewarm yeah why but why lukewarm i don't know Somehow with ice water, I get an allergy. I get a throat irritation, and then I'm sneezing a lot. Okay. So I like that lukewarm because it helps in my bowel movements in the morning, too. Got it. So I have that little apple cider vinegar.
[54:56] Then I have black coffee.
[55:00] Which I do. Then I go for my juice that I make every single day for the last so many years. In that goes bananas, 100%, pears, blueberries, strawberries. I don't use raspberries because they get very soft and mushy. So I do that. Then I put a piece of ginger and I put a piece of.
[55:27] Flax seeds and chia seeds and turmeric actually a piece of turmeric yeah powder i put all that and then i put arugula i love that little bittery thing nutty bittery thing in it and cucumber which are coming out of my garden like crazy they're coming out of my ears so i take a cucumber and i put that and celery because remember older people the thirst centers don't work very well So we have to hydrate ourselves not only by water, but also by vegetables and fruits that have water, like oranges or your watermelon or celery or cucumber. So I put all those things and make a concoction, which I have it myself, my wife and my daughter will come sometimes and pick hers up. So this is it sustains me till 1130 when I get hungry again, because in between I do my one hour of yoga, meditation, exercise, run. And then I do my morning telemedicine. So that takes up over my time. So that's the must. Then comes evening.
[56:47] You know, it's strange. Like somebody just wrote to me. A lot of people write to me and said, can I have this nurse who just wrote to me in the morning? Can I have the recipe of yours where it's scrambled tofu? This is what I did on my friends. On New Year's, we normally get together on New Year's Eve and we sleep at each other's place. So I called people at my place and I said, I'll give you a superb scrambled eggs in the morning. Because four of them out of the six, eight, sorry, four of them were non-veg. I'll give you. So I made, got up in the morning, made scrambled tofu, but not the ones like just scrambled eggs. I mean, cilantro and turmeric and ginger and garlic and you name it, tomatoes. And I give it to them. And I said, this is your scrambled eggs. I promise you, not one of them found out that it was not it. When I told them that one of these gentlemen with audacity would turn around and say, no wonder it did not taste that good.
[58:01] But it was there. A nice, you know, because I believe a lot in probiotics, not pills. Right. probiotics foods you know the the weisman trial in uh in uh israel the weisman trial is a trial that has been done because if you notice the probiotic is a 50 billion dollar industry all over the world you you have in your cereals probiotics you have it in your popsicles, you have it in your juices, you have it even in your dog's food. So the idea is that these two doctors in Weizmann Institute, they did a study, a controlled study, and they gave one group of people the probiotic pill. And guess what? It did nothing. It did not propagate the alimentary canal. It just went in and came out from the other end. I'm wondering, so this is a $50 billion of poop.
[59:20] So the point I'm making is that you can have your foods which are probiotic, Like your non-dairy yogurts, your kombucha, your kimchi, your sauerkraut. I always put sauerkraut on my food, whatever it is that I put a little bit of sauerkraut. That helps me. Afternoon can be a sandwich. Evening, my wife will have a Indian bean soup or vegetables put on there. Well, I am such a fan of Indian food and how you can veganize just about any Indian dish and just make it incredible.
[1:00:02] So just the spices, the herbs, it is remarkable. And I'm sure that you guys get to indulge in all kinds of food like that, especially if your wife is a phenomenal cook. Cook yeah but i'm not in i'm not into uh spicy ah okay yeah okay so tell me this your book i love the title open heart because of the double entendre that's there right open heart open heart surgery it also was the thing that allowed you to open up your heart that that was closed that that was shut before that. When did you write that book? You see, this book was written during the COVID period, when I could not go out, when I could not go out.
Writing the Book
[1:00:53] So I sat down, every time I would relate something to my family, friends, and staff, they would say, why don't you put it down on paper?
[1:01:03] And so this gave me a chance. And I'm not a writer. My brother has published three or four books.
[1:01:10] My nephew has got a book and is an actor in New York. So, but I was not. So it took me a long time to pen the words and do everything properly. And what, you know, why did I write this book? Because I wanted people to understand what can happen to an exhausted body with a multitude of health problems and how I overcame that with spirituality, yoga, etc. I also want people to learn from my mistakes so that they can take small steps to change their lifestyle and overall health. And again, in this book, my willingness to be open and transparent. I've been completely open so that leaders can be open and transparent so that they can come to their demons and come to their logical conclusions to their problems. How hard was it for you to be completely open and vulnerable and lay it all out there? My editor, the first thing I wrote, my editor said, we can't print this. This is too much. So I had to bring it down. Uh-huh.
[1:02:38] So, but I wanted to be open. Right. I don't care. I mean, I'm here to help people and I have made mistakes.
[1:02:48] So you learn from this, get better. And that is my legacy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, as you say, you're now 76 years old and you're living a life of purpose, of peace and contentment. And I just, you know, just by looking at you over the course of the last hour that we've been talking, it's
Living with Purpose
[1:03:12] very, very apparent to me that you're very comfortable in your own skin. You don't take yourself too seriously. You have a wonderful sense of humor. You've got a little bit of a sparkle in your eye. And I think that that's as much as anybody can hope for because way too many people, they're not. They're not comfortable in their own skin. They don't have a sense of humor. And they haven't found that peace and contentment. So bravo to you. Especially your self-deprecating humor.
[1:03:46] People don't tend to do that. Yeah, yeah. It's nice. It's very, very refreshing. Well, I mean, I just want to let you know, Akil, how refreshing it has been to meet with you. I love your story, your journey, the transformation, how you've been able to open your heart. You're sharing this, you know, it sounds like with your patients, with your family, with just about anybody. And that's a wonderful thing. Is there any last words that you want to leave with the PLANTSTRONGaudience?
[1:04:28] You know something, adventure can hurt you, but monotony will kill you. Now, adventure is a metaphor. What I'm saying is live outside your comfort zone. That does not mean climb mountains and run marathons. If you want to do that, go ahead. But it means taking up a new hobby. Say, like playing bridge or gardening or, say, my wife who plays mahjong. So all these things you can incorporate living outside your comfort zone. Yeah. Have you played any pickleball yet? Not yet. I did. I did. But it was way back sometimes in Florida when I was there. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Got it. But I'm trying to learn things, and I'm always open to learn things. Yeah. But it's so nice. It was a pleasure being here. Oh, absolutely. Pleasure having you. Thank you. And I hope to see you in the not-too-distant future. All right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Before we go, before we go, I have one last question for you. What is the next adventure for Akil? deal?
[1:05:52] I don't know this thing, but I'm trying to do a bike ride where I was. I lived in Gadsden, Alabama for 20 years. Now I'm in Atlanta for eight years. So there is a trail, a bike trail, Silver Comet Trail. So from that end to this end, if I can do it with a few people, So I'm not sure I'll be able to do it, but that is what is working in my mind right now. Well, let me add to that. One of the things that I've done numerous times over the last 20 years is there's this movement where they take old railroad lines, it's called rails to trails, and they turn them into bike trails, bike paths. And some of them are 200, 300, 400 miles long. So that's fun. And I typically do that with a group of five to six people. And we have somebody that meets us, you know, every 60 miles. And we pull out the tents and the food and cook. It's a blast. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Getting a little bit old for that kind of mischievous fun.
[1:07:11] But I'm here. Come on. You're still in your 70s. You're a spring chicken. I know, compared to your dad and he's doing so well, I feel that I'm a novice.
[1:07:23] No, but he was he was he represented the country for rowing. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's what I thought of him when I saw this movie recently about the rowing team. Oh, yeah. No, that was the boys in the boat. Well, it was in the boat. Yes. And then I told my wife, I said, look, Dr. Esselstyn Jr. did this way back. Yeah. Yeah. And we both went on to Google to find out which year and what year. Yeah well it's funny because the the boys in the boat that was that took place in germany in 1936 if i'm not mistaken yeah when hitler was it when hitler was there exactly and my father was 1956 so it was 20 years later and almost very similar as far as them coming back uh from what looked like imminent defeat to actually come back and and win the gold medal against all odds so So pretty remarkable. I'm actually going to interview my father and the Coxmen in just a couple weeks about their whole experience. Wow, I would love to listen. Getting to Melbourne and actually then coming back and winning the gold medal. Yeah, I can't wait to talk to him about it. It'll be great. Yeah, yeah. And I said it wrong. I phrased it wrong. You're not a spring chicken. You're a spring piece of baby kale is what you are.
[1:08:44] I call myself the new kid, the new old kid on the block. Yeah, I like it. Hey, will you give me a virtual fist bump on the way out? Absolutely. PLANTSTRONG to Mr. Wise. Akil the wise. Oh, yeah. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Dr. Taher's book is called Open Heart, and I'll be sure to link up his website and how to purchase his book in today's show notes. He provides so many lessons today, all with love, mindfulness, and a contagious positive attitude. Akil is proof that it's never too late to make significant, lasting change and that anyone, and I mean anyone, can go the distance with their health. Thanks so much for listening. Keep climbing those proverbial mountains and always, always keep it PLANTSTRONG.
[1:09:47] The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey. If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones. You can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. And Anne Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.
[1:10:23] Music.
